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CuddlyCuteKitten
18-09-2009, 21:24
So a unit needs to be US 5 or more to both be able to get the +1 flank modifier and to be able to negate the enemy units rank bonus (in other words monsters that aren't US 5 suck).

But what happens if I attack with two individual units that both have less than US 5 but together have more than US 5? The rulebook mostly mentions the unit in singular which seems to imply that a single unit doing a flank or rear charge has to have more than US 5 and that you cannot combine several smaller US to get over US 5 but this hardly seems logical.

Also would both units have to be charging into the same flank for this to work? And if so could you charge one into the rear and one into the flank and still retain your bonuses

Some examples to illustrate my point.

2 tomb scorpions charge the left flank of a unit of 25 empire swordsmen. Do they get flank bonus/negate ranks?

1 tomb scorpion charge the left flank of a unit of 25 empire swordsmen, another one charges the right flank. Do they get their flank bonus/negate ranks?

1 tomb scorpion charges the left flank of a unit of 25 empire swordsmen, another charges the rear. Do they get the flank bonus, the rear charge bonus and negate ranks?

rtunian
18-09-2009, 22:03
the rule book says "flanking unit's strength", and not "cumulative unit strength of flanking units"

this issue is not discussed in either of the 7th ed general faq's (i did not check each army book faq)

as far as i can tell, no you do not get bonus or negate ranks unless you have a unit with us5+ in the flank/rear

xragg
18-09-2009, 22:39
It represents a unit's cohesion to disrupt another unit's cohesion. For the same reason a massive unit of skirmishers wont take away ranks, individual models/units adding up to US5 also wont. They are not working together; each is looking out for number one.

Ξ H2O Ξ
18-09-2009, 23:14
Not quite the same as the OPers question ( i agree that the answer is no for gaining the flank/rear bonus), however is the no minimum unit strength for a pursuing unit to cut down the unit it is pursuing? I know that an enemy unit in the way of a fleeing unit must be US5 to destroy them but not seen anywhere about a minimum US for a "cut down" on the pursuit.

For instance it seems...unlikely a lone hero could manage to pursue and cut down 3 trolls it defeated in combat.

Ty H2O

narrativium
18-09-2009, 23:17
A US1 model could cause two wounds on a unit of twenty Ogres (which outnumbers it), pursue and kill them all. The minimum US required is 1: enough to pursue with.

Drachen_Jager
18-09-2009, 23:27
It's not so much about "cutting down" the enemy, it's about a unit which is running away as fast as they can being hit from behind and scattering across the battlefield in the resulting confusion, essentially they become subject to the "under 25%" rule so they just get removed from play to save complications.

Being removed from play and "dying" are very different IMO, in a normal battle when you remove casualties I figure only about 1/4 are dead, the rest are just too badly wounded to carry on.

T10
19-09-2009, 15:34
But what happens if I attack with two individual units that both have less than US 5 but together have more than US 5?

Then nothing special happens. You need to charge the target unit in the flank or rear with one or more units with US 5+. You do not count their combined US.

Unuhexium
19-09-2009, 15:53
On the topic of flank/rear charges, the rulebook states that you get +1 CR for a flank charge and +2 CR for a rear charge. You don't get cumilative bonuses for multiple flank charges and the same goes for multiple rear charges. My question is, if you charge a unit in the flank AND rear (one unit per side) would you get a total of +3 CR? +1 for the flank AND +2 for the rear or just one of those bonuses?

narrativium
19-09-2009, 15:58
The rulebook is actually very clear on that point. Flank/rear is cumulative.

Unuhexium
19-09-2009, 16:02
Thanks man =) must've missed that sentence.