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Sceleris82
20-09-2009, 13:22
Well its a terrible place, but its also a place of adventure so i honestly cant decide... but what is your take on it?

Condottiere
20-09-2009, 14:02
You could live in interesting times and interesting places.

Marshal Argos
20-09-2009, 14:47
Personally I think we already live in the 40k Universe. It's just that we are currently cut off from the rest of humanity due to warp storms.

OT: I like my flat looking out over the neighborhood. I don't see guns, servitors, or fear that my neighbor might secretly worshiping nurgle. I'll think I'll stay here.

Thud
20-09-2009, 14:57
Hell no!

Worst case scenario I'm a slave on an over-polluted garbage dump of a planet. Best case scenario I join the Guard, get a lasgun and get eaten by a giant cockroach fifteen minutes later.

Gustovic
20-09-2009, 15:05
Only if I would be a Leman Russ tank commander.

Seved
20-09-2009, 15:20
Only as a Space Wolf.

Argastes
20-09-2009, 15:47
Best case scenario I join the Guard, get a lasgun and get eaten by a giant cockroach fifteen minutes later.

I'd say the best-case scenario* is that you're lucky enough to live on a peaceful agri-world or civ-world that has a decent average standard of living, and is far from any conflict zones or dangerous areas; and that you never get drafted into any form of military service, but live out your life as a fairly comfortable civilian. Even then, though, you can probably expect fewer civil rights than we enjoy as modern Americans/Europeans, and few of the amenities that we take for granted in an information-age society with ubiquitous computers and the internet. And even if your world is far from any warzones and has been peaceful for generations, there is always the possibility that tomorrow a space hulk bearing orks or genestealers or chaos renegades could randomly pop out the warp in your system.... or that the Eldar might decide to attack your planet out of the blue for inscrutable reasons.... or that Dark Eldar pirates might happen by to do a bit of raiding and slave-taking.... or that one uncontrolled psyker somewhere in the planet's population might accidentally turn himself into a warp-gate and allow daemons to come flooding through.... So as you say, hell no!

*For an average person; disregarding the tiny minority who may live lives of supreme luxury as, say, members of a planetary governor's family or are otherwise part of an 'idle rich' aristocracy.

Iracundus
20-09-2009, 16:06
The 40K universe is not really a place of adventure for any but a tiny number of people such as Inquisitors and Rogue Traders. For the vast bulk of humanity, it will likely be a hand to mouth existence of drudgery with some minor comforts to ease the passing of time, whether it be working as a serf on a farm, an assembly line worker in a hive, a bureaucrat shuffling papers, etc... There is virtually no social mobility. You will likely die doing what your father and grandfather did. If you're lucky you might get minor promotions but there is still that invisible ceiling determined by class and nobility. You are not paid to think. Knowledge and thinking is a privilege reserved for a few, such as Inquisitors.

Lord Damocles
20-09-2009, 16:31
Little known fact: In an empire of a million worlds, life on all of them is terrible.

Even paradise worlds.

Honest.

snottlebocket
20-09-2009, 16:39
If you want to live a life of adventure and danger, dodging harsh totalitarian regimes or risking your life making a fortune in seedy places where amazing technology exists side by side with almost mideval squalor in the decadent bellies of hive cities as a rogue trader, you could just move to south east asia.

Champer Master Zavian
20-09-2009, 20:50
Personally I think we already live in the 40k Universe. It's just that we are currently cut off from the rest of humanity due to warp storms.

OT: I like my flat looking out over the neighborhood. I don't see guns, servitors, or fear that my neighbor might secretly worshiping nurgle. I'll think I'll stay here.


I second that :) .

Lusall
20-09-2009, 21:01
I'd like to say yes...if I was like...a Space Wolf or certain Space Marine...
But nah...nah...

puppetmaster24
20-09-2009, 21:04
no, it's a horrible place.

Firaxin
20-09-2009, 21:10
Hells yes! I'll take a 15 hour life expectancy over this slow slide into communism any day!

starlight
20-09-2009, 21:13
OT: I like my flat looking out over the neighborhood. I don't see guns, servitors, or fear that my neighbor might secretly worshiping nurgle. I'll think I'll stay here.

Pretty much. :)


Hell no!

Worst case scenario I'm a slave on an over-polluted garbage dump of a planet. Best case scenario I join the Guard, get a lasgun and get eaten by a giant cockroach fifteen minutes later.

Yup, very likely.


If you want to live a life of adventure and danger, dodging harsh totalitarian regimes or risking your life making a fortune in seedy places where amazing technology exists side by side with almost mideval squalor in the decadent bellies of hive cities as a rogue trader, you could just move to south east asia.

Or any other armpit of Earth... :(


I like it right here in Canukistan where we have Teh Internetz and pretty girls (although not both together :( ). :D

The Red Scourge
20-09-2009, 21:16
Come on guys.. Living in a fascist paradise, where bio-enhanced warrior monks can nuke your neighbourhood because a teen was caught reading dirty magazines, and where your local mechanic fixes your car by asking it nicely. Where you've had close encounters of the third kind and just decided to kill other races for the sole reason that they offend someones idea of aestethics. And where society is ruled by an undead corpse demanding constant human sacrifice. That must appeal to some? ;)

If you really lack adventure that much, then I'll suggest signing up with a humanitarian organisation working in third world war zones, then something good just might come of it :)

starlight
20-09-2009, 21:22
And here I was thinking that Blackwater is always looking for people... :angel:

guillimansknight
20-09-2009, 21:42
Aye why no for me life is cheap.

Your gonna die anyway why no die " fighting "

spetswalshe
20-09-2009, 21:55
You could die fighting for freedom or compassion or righteousness or something right here. In the grim darkness of the far future you'd either fight for your facist overseers to whom you're literally no more than an ant, or for your facist overseers to whom you're literally no more than blood for the blood god.

And even then there's like a billion to one chance you'd get to see some fighting. More likely than not you'd buy it in a dropship or during warp travel. Even if you made it planetside you'd probably just eat an artillery shell.

Frankly I'd rather take my chances with the 'commies'. I can stand on my street corner with my sandwich board and the Inquisition don't pull me into a dungeon and stick me in the pain glove.

Askil the Undecided
20-09-2009, 22:11
I'd rather die slowly of starvation in the gutters of the lowliest slum on the planet than probably starve slowly to death in a galaxy where there are Deamons, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, CSM, Necrons, C'Tan and the Inquisition waiting to brutally slaughter me for no greater reason than that they can.

Col. Tartleton
20-09-2009, 22:48
I'd love to be born in 40k.

I'd be a guardsman faster than you can say "Fifteen Minutes" Then I'd manage to survive a year, make aid de camp to a powerful general, he'd manage to catch a bullet, I'd be premoted to take his replacement's job, I'd work my way through the ranks, win the respect of the Commissariat, kill a few heretics, burn a few witches, keep up the good appearences, and then make an entire army group of a billion soldiers "disapear" and start my own empire.

Welcome to the paradise world of Evanopolis, home of the God Emperor Evan.

guillimansknight
20-09-2009, 22:59
I'd love to be born in 40k.

I'd be a guardsman faster than you can say "Fifteen Minutes" Then I'd manage to survive a year, make aid de camp to a powerful general, he'd manage to catch a bullet, I'd be premoted to take his replacement's job, I'd work my way through the ranks, win the respect of the Commissariat, kill a few heretics, burn a few witches, keep up the good appearences, and then make an entire army group of a billion soldiers "disapear" and start my own empire.

Welcome to the paradise world of Evanopolis, home of the God Emperor Evan.

"raises combi-bolter". Burn Heretic!!

Grimbad
20-09-2009, 23:51
Only as an ork. A short life and a merry one. No dread of death. Hilarity.

If we're talking about the Imperium, turn to page 112 of the Big Red Book.
Look at the three pictures.
The first is the guy behind the counter at your local convenience store. Note the built-in cash register.
The second is the guy in a shadowy alley trying to sell you something suspicious as you walk by.
The third is your government's health-care solution.
That's not a universe I want to live in.

eltanko
21-09-2009, 00:23
Hmm, do they have xbox's or advanced version of said console in the 40k universe?, if so, yes :)
If not...only if I get to be a Black Templar, ignore rules and hack things to pieces :) much like my life at the moment!!!!

ElTanko

Condottiere
21-09-2009, 00:32
Eldar - when you die you get reincarnated.

Wait a minute ...

gunners
21-09-2009, 08:36
I think a question surface... Will I be able to paint, play with small figures in a game that's named 80k??? Or the sister game about a lone planet some 38000 years ago, where there was a lot of war and a Axis of evil??:p

If i was to live in a god forsaken creation such as 40k, i would at least pray that my father was in the inquisition... That way it might not be such a bad place:D

CthulhuDalek
21-09-2009, 08:52
I think it'd be fun!

:P

Well fun for somebody. Maybe the Chaos Gods?

Though, it might be interesting with some changes... aka, not just standard imperial dude but...

-Inquisitor
-Cool Psyker
-Space Marine(Space Wolves Runepriest???)
-Rogue Trader
-Chaos Lord!!!
-Daemon Pri...

Reflex
21-09-2009, 09:22
I somehow get the idea that being an eldar would be kinda nice.
Long life span combined with mastering skills and being able to master psychic powers would be nice.

knowing my luck i would be born and about 2 seconds later tzeentch would pop up and all of a sudden my penis is an arm and my legs turn into flamers wile my hands are just constantly melting.

NightrawenII
21-09-2009, 09:57
I'd love to be born in 40k.

I'd be a guardsman faster than you can say "Fifteen Minutes" Then I'd manage to survive a year, make aid de camp to a powerful general, he'd manage to catch a bullet, I'd be premoted to take his replacement's job, I'd work my way through the ranks, win the respect of the Commissariat, kill a few heretics, burn a few witches, keep up the good appearences, and then make an entire army group of a billion soldiers "disapear" and start my own empire.

Welcome to the paradise world of Evanopolis, home of the God Emperor Evan.

The only reward for traitor is a death. *Preparing his Exitus Rifle*

This is like life in Medieval. Everyone dream about knight or princess, but they dont know that 90% of population lived in poorness and died in 50.

ghost21
21-09-2009, 11:58
no, i think id either be a servitor or dead thanks to the lovely imperium

though if i got to have narly powers.......

x-esiv-4c
21-09-2009, 12:18
Sure.
In a different galaxy. One that isn't rife with face-eating aliens, oppressive Orwellian governments, teleporting mass murdering robots etc etc.

Burnthem
21-09-2009, 13:47
I'd be a nice wealthy person living during the Dark Age of Technology, with all the best technology that mankind has ever produced and the benefits that comes with it. You lot can keep all your Inquisitors and Orks, i'm going for the cushy option ;)

Argastes
21-09-2009, 14:15
Yeah but as a DAOT noble, your age of luxury will come to an end. An Ork's never does ;)

Sonny Liston
21-09-2009, 15:04
Well in any human capacity no. Especially since the chances are your going to have rotten life working in a hive or something. Even if your lucky and got to be a Space Marine, your life would still be crap. Think about it. Fighting battles literally round the clock, being constantly brainwashed and risking inumerable horros in a depressive setting.

If I could be an Ork I would love it. Or perhaps a Dark Eldar. A life of deceit and underhand tactics to advance my power in a deadly political arena sounds fun. But it could also be crap.

Argastes
21-09-2009, 15:56
I agree with what Grimbad posted earlier, the best way to enjoy life in 40K is as an Ork. In a universe of constant warfare, war is the thing you enjoy the most; death holds no fear; you feel little pain; losing is nearly as fun as winning for you; and when you do die, Gork and Mork will belch you back into another body so you can keep fighting.

Borg451
21-09-2009, 21:32
Hells yes! I'll take a 15 hour life expectancy over this slow slide into communism any day!

What the **** are you on about?

Explain please.

Col. Tartleton
21-09-2009, 21:48
Warseer: Where calling people thrice damned heretics and threatening to kill them with high powered rifles is an informal greeting.

:cool:

Argastes
21-09-2009, 23:01
What the **** are you on about?

Explain please.

Don't try to drag other posters into off-topic political debates. It was an offhand comment, don't take it seriously, leave it at that, and get on with your life.

spetswalshe
21-09-2009, 23:09
I too an mortified by the slow slide into communism, and wish to live in M41, where that at least isn't a problem.

What's that? Two Segmenta have seceeded from the Imperium and declared themselves for the Tau?

Oh well. Power up the statis pod, Jeeves, we'll try again in another few millenia...

Gen.Steiner
21-09-2009, 23:27
The Tau are not Communist. End of discussion.

As for the topic, colour me keen! Sign me up! Send me to the Underhive or a Paradise World, Vraks, Cadia or Armageddon - I care not!

Firaxin
22-09-2009, 03:21
What the **** are you on about?
What Argastes said.

Otherwise... sigged! :angel:

Cane
22-09-2009, 03:25
I'd live in 40k only if I could train Sisters of Battle as my occupation. Being a relatively high-ranking Imperial official could have its perks :chrome:

Argastes
22-09-2009, 03:43
I'd live in 40k only if I could train Sisters of Battle as my occupation. Being a relatively high-ranking Imperial official could have its perks :chrome:

Good joke! Nothing's funnier than a man using his position of power/authority over women to extract sexual favors from them as a "perk".

starlight
22-09-2009, 03:50
...especially women trained to torture and kill, in the most excruciating manners, any suspected of heresy or deviancy... :eyebrows:

Think about it, the head of the Sisters *beheaded* the defacto leader of the Imperium *in one of the most devout areas of the galaxy*...and you think they won't burn you to ash for putting the moves on one of them...? Dream on...

Now, Governor of a Hive will have all *sorts* of people eager to buy a step up the ladder... :p

CthulhuDalek
22-09-2009, 06:05
Aha in one of the Cain Novels the Sister's leader(canoness? or something...) was having an affair with one of the officers.

Condottiere
22-09-2009, 09:01
Which one's that?

Burnthem
22-09-2009, 09:28
//Edited because it didn't really have anything useful to say at all....//

Imperialis_Dominatus
22-09-2009, 13:11
You know, I'd link to TVTropes' page on Warhammer 40k, which would sum up nicely what makes 40k the last place I'd want to live (and also the reason it's so cool), but it has profanity and stuff. For good reason. I'll just say this.

Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.


Warseer: Where calling people thrice damned heretics and threatening to kill them with high powered rifles is an informal greeting.

And now I remember why I stick around. Though if I link to *that site* again I will not be able to do more than lurk... *looks at Warning Level with great caution*


and you think they won't burn you to ash for putting the moves on one of them...? Dream on

Well, canonically if you count BL they aren't required to be celibate... :cheese:

NightrawenII
22-09-2009, 16:09
Well, canonically if you count BL they aren't required to be celibate... :cheese:

Yes, but their day-job is burning heretics and killing aliens. Even Shira isnt exactly "cute" girl and he is "only" Arbitra Senioris.

Borg451
22-09-2009, 20:33
Don't try to drag other posters into off-topic political debates. It was an offhand comment, don't take it seriously, leave it at that, and get on with your life.

no.. i really mean it..

wtf is he on about?

Borg451
22-09-2009, 20:34
What Argastes said.

Otherwise... sigged! :angel:

wow.. thanks

Argastes
22-09-2009, 20:51
no.. i really mean it..

wtf is he on about?

No, really, I mean it.... don't take it seriously, and get on with your life. You are obviously hung up on it. Let it go. No matter how offended you may be that someone might think we are sliding into communism nowadays, stop trying to demand that other posters get into a political discussion with you. This isn't the place for it.

starlight
22-09-2009, 20:53
Nope it's not. We have a place for it...and it's not here, so either take it to PMs or head over to P&R...although you have to join the Guild in order to do that...


starlight

MontytheMighty
23-09-2009, 18:16
Personally I think we already live in the 40k Universe. It's just that we are currently cut off from the rest of humanity due to warp storms.

OT: I like my flat looking out over the neighborhood. I don't see guns, servitors, or fear that my neighbor might secretly worshiping nurgle. I'll think I'll stay here.

haha yes, we're another imposter earth!

Kalidane
23-09-2009, 23:17
Given the options it would have to be living on Fenris.

Interesting to see the popularity of safe lives of decadent luxury. Compared to any other period in human history we actually have that right here and now. Not so keen on fulfillment then?

<edit>
oops thought original question was "Where would you..." No sane person would want to live in that time/place

l337IrishMafia
24-09-2009, 18:35
I'd live in 40k only if I could train Sisters of Battle as my occupation. Being a relatively high-ranking Imperial official could have its perks :chrome:

"Need some help *cocking* that bolt rifle Sister Eva?" :P

As for me, I don't think I'd like to live in that time and age. If I did though, I'd really like to be an Inquisitor or at least work for one. The closer you are to an Inquisitor the least chance you have of being burned, says I.

Lamhirh
25-09-2009, 00:37
Sure.
In a different galaxy. One that isn't rife with face-eating aliens, oppressive Orwellian governments, teleporting mass murdering robots etc etc.

Same here. If it's anything like ours there are hundreds of billions to choose from. I'd belong to some advanced race living many millions of LY away from the 40K galaxy. I wouldn't even want to be in the same supercluster...

Scion of Ferrus
25-09-2009, 01:47
We do anyway!

We are just 38K in the past though:evilgrin::D:chrome::skull:

weissengel86
25-09-2009, 06:45
I would in fact enjoy living in the 40k universe. I would fit right in with the Ordo Malleus ;)

Condottiere
25-09-2009, 07:34
Do they have internet?

Cane
25-09-2009, 13:56
Good joke! Nothing's funnier than a man using his position of power/authority over women to extract sexual favors from them as a "perk".

Practice what you preach much? :evilgrin:


Don't try to drag other posters into off-topic political debates. It was an offhand comment, don't take it seriously, leave it at that, and get on with your life.

Vesica
26-09-2009, 02:47
Well its a terrible place, but its also a place of adventure so i honestly cant decide... but what is your take on it?

It depends.

But me on a planet where i wont be eaten by nids, beaten to death by orks, possessed/tortured by traitors, taken as a slave by Dark Eldar, stripped atom by atom or skinned by crons, or executed by a zealous Inq then yes i would love to live there :D

Argastes
26-09-2009, 03:06
It depends.

But me on a planet where i wont be eaten by nids, beaten to death by orks, possessed/tortured by traitors, taken as a slave by Dark Eldar, stripped atom by atom or skinned by crons, or executed by a zealous Inq then yes i would love to live there :D

:eyebrows: If it was an Imperial planet, even a pretty "liberal" or "nice" one, your life would still probably suck a lot more than it does now.

Burnthem
26-09-2009, 12:21
Yeah but like Einstein said - Suck is relative ;)

On a serious note i prefer to think that the Imperium contains both extremes of humanity, from the wretched slums of a Hiveworld, to the insane dangers of a jungle deathworld, to the glittering spires of an advanced civilisation.

Some worlds, well away from Terra and the 'frontline', would be almost left alone, so long as the tithes came in on time and appropriate demands were met i could see plenty of planets not only being 'comfy' but also downright luxurious.

Demon Druss
26-09-2009, 12:26
If I could be one of those silly Leman Russ tank commanders who insist on waving a cavalery sabre at Nids or Orks that would just about make it worth the hassle of living in a grimdark universe.

Freak Ona Leash
26-09-2009, 14:00
I would be Dannicus Abnetticon, Adept for a small portion of the Adeptus Terra devoted to writing books for a far-fetched strategy games that entertains Terran man-boys for hours on end.

It would be a comfortable life, I suppose. Though, if my character was drawn by John Blanche, my typewriter would probably be incorporated with my head or something.

Iracundus
26-09-2009, 14:07
Some worlds, well away from Terra and the 'frontline', would be almost left alone, so long as the tithes came in on time and appropriate demands were met i could see plenty of planets not only being 'comfy' but also downright luxurious.

Aside from resort worlds, where their luxury services are their tithe, and the elite classes of other worlds I don't see worlds being able to get away with widespread luxury for long.

If the general population is getting (too) comfortable, then for the Imperium, obviously they're not being taxed enough. I'd expect tithe demands would be raised accordingly. This need not be deliberate oppression and malevolence by the Adeptus Terra, but done in the name of need. "Think of those soldiers fighting on Cadia while you wallow in luxury!"

Argastes
26-09-2009, 15:40
Practice what you preach much? :evilgrin:

Yes, I thought you (or someone else) might try to play this card... but it doesn't work at all, since I certainly didn't try to drag you into any sort of discussion about the topic, unlike Borg451 who was actually demanding that someone explain their comments and thus get into a discussion from him. I didn't expect or request any sort of response, discussion, or argument from you. All I did was comment that your "joke" was immature and disgusting. Then I moved on, having no interest in actually seeing you try to defend your immature and disgusting joke. So, your attempt to accuse me of hypocrisy is a non-starter, and I suggest you read/think more carefully in the future.

Burnthem: I think Iracundus is right, Imperial tithes are probably assessed in a way that prevents Imperial planets have having a generally high living standard. No matter how productive the planetary economy, the Imperial tithe is always going to take as much as it can without wrecking that economy, meaning general living standards are going to be rather rough by current standards. Planets won't be allowed to squander their economic productivity on luxurious living standards for the populace when the Imperium is embroiled in a desperate, never-ending war for survival in which every extra bit of manpower and material is important. Of course the planetary government's ruling clique--the aristocracy, the big property owners, the governor and his family, etc.--will manage to be very comfortable, obscenely so on many planets, but for the bulk of a planet's population, I think Imperial tax policy rules out luxury.

Of course, depending on how exactly Imperial tithes are assessed, it could be possible for a planetary population to enjoy a fairly nice living standard for a limited time; we all know how slowly the Imperial bureaucracy moves, and how it can take decades or even centuries to produce a given decision. So if a planet, for whatever reason, experienced a period of rapid economic improvement (and if that improvement made itself felt as a generally improved living standard rather than just more money in the coffers of the planetary aristocracy), then it's population might enjoy as much as a few generations of comparative luxury before their planet's tithe rates were re-assessed accordingly, and all that extra wealth got taxed away and used to finance the Imperial war machine. I think this would be exceedingly rare, though, because most Imperial planets don't have the necessary ingredients for a rapid economic growth spurt, and most Imperial planets also don't seem to have the socio-economic structure necessary to translate such a growth spurt into broad-based prosperity for the populace (again, it would probably mostly just enrich the planetary ruling class).

Also, the reasons for what I said earlier, about how even life on "nice" imperial planets would probably suck compared to today, were not purely economic. There is also the fact that your government would be unelected, unaccountable to you, and essentially monarchic, and that even the most permissive planetary governors would probably curtail civil rights, legal protections for those accused of crimes, etc. more than modern Western societies do. And the fact that no matter how nice your planet is, if it's Imperial planet then you would be living in a society with a single state religion which apparently has the right to unilaterally identify, persecute, and kill nonbelievers without intervention by the secular authoritity. And how about the fact that you would be living in a universe where people with psychic powers (and a certain percentage of the population has them in all human societies) always pose the threat of opening up a door for daemonic incursion and thus destroying your planet no matter how far it is from any galactic warzones or alien threats. It goes on and on. Even in those rare instances where economic booms allows planets to attain high general living standards, there are many other ways in which even the nicest Imperial planets aren't going to be as nice as modern-day first world societies.

Iracundus
26-09-2009, 16:10
I think this would be exceedingly rare, though, because most Imperial planets don't have the necessary ingredients for a rapid economic growth spurt, and most Imperial planets also don't seem to have the socio-economic structure necessary to translate such a growth spurt into broad-based prosperity for the populace (again, it would probably mostly just enrich the planetary ruling class).

This is partly from the nature of the Imperium and its indirect selection of the socio-economic structures of its worlds. Although technically any form of government or economy might be permitted so long as tithes are paid, the level of tithes are likely to mean governments with long lasting stability and centralized control are the ones that manage to consistently meet their tithe requirements.

From the glimpses of worlds in many 40K sources from Dark Heresy to Necromunda, economic structure in the Imperium tends to revolve around guilds/cartels/megacorporations. Reasons are likely similar to those for governments. The Imperium would want long lived institutions it could deal with, and would rather deal with a few entities rather than many. With charters and contracts spanning literally generations, as suggested in Dark Heresy, the opportunities for an entrepeneur to innovate or succeed would be limited.

Both of these situations would serve to limit the likelihood and amount of sudden economic growth or the size of any trickle down effects reaching the bulk of the population.


Of course, depending on how exactly Imperial tithes are assessed, it could be possible for a planetary population to enjoy a fairly nice living standard for a limited time; we all know how slowly the Imperial bureaucracy moves, and how it can take decades or even centuries to produce a given decision. So if a planet, for whatever reason, experienced a period of rapid economic improvement (and if that improvement made itself felt as a generally improved living standard rather than just more money in the coffers of the planetary aristocracy), then it's population might enjoy as much as a few generations of comparative luxury before their planet's tithe rates were re-assessed accordingly, and all that extra wealth got taxed away and used to finance the Imperial war machine.

Such an event could well be the trigger for a rebellion or attempted secession. Imagine how most people (average and aristocrat alike) would feel if after enjoying a certain standard of living for decades or centuries (ie generations), the people from the sky just come and demand enough goods to reduce you to poverty or at least a significantly more uncomfortable standard of living than you have ever known.


And how about the fact that you would be living in a universe where people with psychic powers (and a certain percentage of the population has them in all human societies) always pose the threat of opening up a door for daemonic incursion and thus destroying your planet no matter how far it is from any galactic warzones or alien threats.

Imperial Governors are also supposed to contain the psyker threat on their worlds, so anyone with psychic ability will either have to live a furtive life or be locked up to be sent onto the next Black Ship.

Condottiere
26-09-2009, 16:41
The boom and bust cycle is a natural occurrence in an economy. Consider additional taxation like increased interest rates.

Argastes
26-09-2009, 18:13
The boom and bust cycle is a natural occurrence in an economy.

This is true in a narrow sense, with regard to particular commodities; but in the broad sense (i.e., what is also called the "credit cycle"), the boom-and-bust cycle is NOT a natural occurrence in all economies. It requires certain conditions that are present in modern, liberal (classically liberal, not "left wing"), post-industrial economies but certainly not in all economies. Most Imperial planetary economies would not be subject to a boom/bust cycle in the same way that (some) modern real-life economies are. Static ownership of capital, huge barriers to market entry, the lack of any form of securities trading, and so forth would inhibit that sort of economic dynamism. Imperial planetary economies are essentially pre-modern in form even if they are based on factories and factory workers instead of farms and agricultural peasants. Economic change on Imperial planets is generally going to be extremely slow barring major outside interference.


Imperial Governors are also supposed to contain the psyker threat on their worlds, so anyone with psychic ability will either have to live a furtive life or be locked up to be sent onto the next Black Ship.

Right, it's the ones living a furtive life who pose the threat and mean that you are never quite safe from horrible death even on Imperial worlds that haven't seen war in thousands of years and are remote from any threats or war-zones. Imagine your neighbor is a quiet sort who keeps to himself, never really bothers anyone, has certainly never given anyone reason to suspect that he might be unusual... and then one day you're reading your morning paper when you hear a hideous noise from across the street, and suddenly a pack of gibbering warp-monsters are pouring in through your kitchen door. Your quiet neighbor has always kept his strange mental abilities secret, never telling anyone and exploring them only when in total privacy; but that morning, as he was sitting around seeing if he could telekinetically turn the lights on and off, he attracted the attention of something in the warp and accidentally turned himself into a nightmare-gushing portal between realities. That ever-present risk is one of the reasons that I'd prefer life in the real world to life anywhere in the 40K galaxy, no matter how seemingly safe and peaceful.

wilsongrahams
26-09-2009, 19:58
Yes. I would. Mainly because I believe there must be as many Agri worlds as Hive Worlds and because being eaten is just as likely as being ran over now.

The advantage is the technology that would be available.

I would only hope that I would be able to serve the Emperor as something more interesting than a cleaner sweeping Baal's deserts clear of sand...

Argastes
26-09-2009, 20:42
:confused: You think that you would enjoy living on an agri-world more than you enjoy your current life? Living on an agri-world means you have a 95% chance of being a farm laborer or tractor mechanic, and a 5% chance of being lucky enough to be a farm administrator instead of a laborer--i.e. sitting in an office performing farming-related managerial tasks.

What technology do you think you would have access to that would make your life more enjoyable than it is now? You certainly wouldn't have access to a personal computer or any sort of internet...

Iverald
26-09-2009, 21:08
Warpnet anyone? Cheers to Lastie for that. :)

On a more personal note, 15 sec. life expectancy is not going to cut it.

Burnthem
26-09-2009, 22:38
:confused: You think that you would enjoy living on an agri-world more than you enjoy your current life?

Perhaps he wants to be a farmer? Nothing wrong with that, and it beats being IG cannon fodder anyday :D

As for the aside about planets developing above the 'normal' level of 'comfiness' if you will, i agree with alot of what you say Argastes and Iracandus, with the one exception that i see it being perfectly feasible for a planet to 'surge ahead' of the rest of the Imperium, if only for a short amount of time (comparitively speaking).

Many planets are known to be visited very very rarely, once a century or two for example. If you look how far Earth has come in the last hundred years it shows how it'd be possible for a planet in the Imperium to do the same.

I'm not talking about a major industrialised world, with spaceflight and associated trappings, but a medium populated current-day technology level world for example. Once a century a few ships turn up from the local battlefleet to collect the tithe of manpower and resources, but apart from that the planet has remarkably little contact with the Imperium. Over the course of the intervening century the planet prospers. Good crop yields, a growing population, increasing manufacturing capability, increased infrastructure etc. Nothing drastic, they haven't got spaceflight for example, but they've easily managed to supply a very comfortable standard of living for the vast majority of the population.

When the fleet turns up (which it may not do, warp storms/battles etc), they collect the tithe, note that the planet is prospering and notify the Munitorum that the Tithe grade may be increased. Now this message has to not only reach the local Munitorum outpost (not guaranteed if sent by Astropath or even ship), but it has to be put through the immense paperwork system, be passed to a higher authority, be rubber stamped, inspectors then have to make thier way to the planet to assess the new tithe requirements, etc etc.

The scale at which we are talking is immense, in the centuries in some cases for the more 'out of the way' planets. I think it is more than feasible for a planet to become rather comfortable for its inhabitants, even given the tithes and requirements from the imperium as a whole. With over a million inhabited worlds, there must be some that have either 'slipped through the net' or are simply so far off the beaten track it is not viable for the imperium to waste the resources to go and collect a regiment of men/ship full of ore every century or two.

Condottiere
27-09-2009, 09:27
There might even be a practical reason to keep the population hungry, but not starving.

Well fed people societies and people have the luxury to philosophize, inquire about the nature of the universe and their place in it. Some of these thought streams lead to uncomfortable places.

Iracundus
27-09-2009, 09:30
There might even be a practical reason to keep the population hungry, but not starving.

Well fed people societies and people have the luxury to philosophize, inquire about the nature of the universe and their place in it. Some of these thought streams lead to uncomfortable places.

Same rationale as that in 1984. Keep the population hungry and never entirely comfortable, and have an outside enemy and an internal enemy to rally them against. Can't have them too comfortable else they'll question the status quo. Can't have them too uncomfortable or starving else they'll die out or revolt. In 1984 however, even the Inner Party were not kept too comfortable. In 40K, the Imperium seems to permit the elite class to have luxury lifestyles.

Condottiere
27-09-2009, 09:49
Most revolutions start from bored or idealistic members of the monied class.

Iracundus
27-09-2009, 10:30
I would disagree with that. Revolutions can start from any social class. You will find numerous examples throughout history of the peasant class or other underclass starting revolutions. Populist revolts, relying on widespread easily understood motivations, gain support more easily than those arising purely from ivory tower idealists.

Condottiere
27-09-2009, 10:36
I'd say that those provide the fertile ground for a revolt.

Iracundus
27-09-2009, 10:41
The intellectuals or middle/upper classes may get swept up or even take leadership, but they are usually the ones with some greater vested interest in the status quo, and the first spark of revolt is not likely to be lit by them. The dissenters are usually in the minority. Ultimately society is supported by the mass of primary producers. When the existing system no longer provides even the basic needs they consider acceptable, that is when they revolt, and threaten the collapse of the entire pyramid structure.

TrooperTino
27-09-2009, 10:47
I would like to live on a peacefull agri-world... have a wife, 2 kids, a good job... beautifull sunsets to watch in the evening.... and be the leader of a small slaanesh cult... yes... that would be nice :)

guillimansknight
02-10-2009, 23:20
Beats dying on this decadent rock

Eetion
03-10-2009, 19:54
Hmm. Maybe as a citizen of the Tau Empire. Good standard of living, good tech, Drones to do my housework, Its a gamble on the Empire surviving but better than the slums of the Imperium.

wilsongrahams
04-10-2009, 09:54
:confused: You think that you would enjoy living on an agri-world more than you enjoy your current life? Living on an agri-world means you have a 95% chance of being a farm laborer or tractor mechanic, and a 5% chance of being lucky enough to be a farm administrator instead of a laborer--i.e. sitting in an office performing farming-related managerial tasks.

What technology do you think you would have access to that would make your life more enjoyable than it is now? You certainly wouldn't have access to a personal computer or any sort of internet...


Sorry, my point wasn't that I wanted to be on an agri world but that there are a lot of different types of worlds and not just the hive worlds people were previously talking about. I'm pretty certain there would be worlds very similar to our Earth now. After all, planetary governors can do as they wish with their planets as long as they meet the PDF, Guard and taxation required.

Lord Malorne
04-10-2009, 09:56
I would not like to live there and its odd behaviour if you do.

Dexter099
04-10-2009, 15:09
It depends where I would live. I would like to be on Terra.

Burnthem
04-10-2009, 16:41
I would not like to live there and its odd behaviour if you do.

Odd behaviour wanting to live on a peaceful farming planet rather than a grim Hiveworld? Yeah, really odd behaviour....... :confused:

Argastes
04-10-2009, 17:18
Odd behaviour wanting to live on a peaceful farming planet rather than a grim Hiveworld? Yeah, really odd behaviour....... :confused:

Uhh no, he's saying it's odd behavior to want to live in the 40K universe (even on a peaceful farming planet) instead of in the real world. I tend to agree with him. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, by myself and others, there are numerous reasons that even the most peaceful agri-world isn't as nice as life in a first-world country today.


'm pretty certain there would be worlds very similar to our Earth now. After all, planetary governors can do as they wish with their planets as long as they meet the PDF, Guard and taxation required.

Even the worlds that come the closest to what we have today would probably not be as nice to live in as the real world. Even the kindest planetary governor can't do away with some of the nasty things about living in the Imperium (limited religious freedom, living under an unelected and unaccountable government, no civil rights if you are accused of violating Imperial law, the risk of a psker accidentally triggering a daemonic incursion on even the most peaceful and out-of-the-way planet, etc.). These things are Imperium-wide and exist on EVERY Imperial planet, even those that are otherwise similar to our Earth today, no matter how peaceful they may be and how nice their governor may be.

Idaan
04-10-2009, 17:34
living under an unelected and unaccountable government,
It is up to the government of the planet to find a way of electing itself. Thus, if governor wants to, he can have democracy. Solomon in DH and IIRC Pavonis in "Nightbringer" both have parliamentary democracies and are staunch supporters of the Imperial rule. Solomon is even the designated Munitorum fief for Calixis Sector.

Argastes
04-10-2009, 18:03
It is up to the government of the planet to find a way of electing itself. Thus, if governor wants to, he can have democracy. Solomon in DH and IIRC Pavonis in "Nightbringer" both have parliamentary democracies and are staunch supporters of the Imperial rule. Solomon is even the designated Munitorum fief for Calixis Sector.

Hmm, so you are describing a system where the planetary governor is unelected (as all Imperial planetary governors are) but allows a parliament to be elected by the planetary populace? I'd describe this as "semi-democratic" or "having some democratic elements", at best. Executive power would still rest in the hands of an unelected planetary governor. And since the planetary government is also accountable in various ways to the Imperial government (which is obviously also unelected and unaccountable), that also imposes a limit on what choices the people can make via an elected parliament.

Freak Ona Leash
04-10-2009, 18:07
Hmm, so you are describing a system where the planetary governor is unelected (as all Imperial planetary governors are) but allows a parliament to be elected by the planetary populace? I'd describe this as "semi-democratic" or "having some democratic elements", at best. Executive power would still rest in the hands of an unelected planetary governor.

Similar to a constitutional monarchy then?

Argastes
04-10-2009, 18:12
Similar to a constitutional monarchy then?

Sort of, but only sort of; "constitutional monarchy" usually refers to a system where the monarch is the head of state but most or even all real political power is in the hands of elected bodies/officials. Even on an Imperial planet with an elected parliament or similar body, a substantial amount of power is still going to inhere to the office the of governor. Imperial planetary governors aren't figureheads like the monarchs in most modern constitutional monarchies.

EDIT: Also, from a legal standpoint, an Imperial planetary governor would theoretically have the right to ignore or dissolve any elected body such as parliament. Such a body could only exist on an Imperial planet if the governor had brought it into existence himself, and would exist at his pleasure. Remember that an Imperial governor has a charter from the Adeptus Terra to rule his planet however he sees fit as long as he fulfils certain obligations to the Imperium. It would therefore be impossible, for instance, for a planet to have a constitution stating that certain rights or powers belong solely to an elected body, or that such a body cannot be dissolved at the governor's pleasure.

Lisiecki
04-10-2009, 19:03
Well its a terrible place, but its also a place of adventure so i honestly cant decide... but what is your take on it?

It is a universe you can live in today - if you dare - for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed

Idaan
04-10-2009, 20:12
Hmm, so you are describing a system where the planetary governor is unelected (as all Imperial planetary governors are) but allows a parliament to be elected by the planetary populace? I'd describe this as "semi-democratic" or "having some democratic elements", at best. Executive power would still rest in the hands of an unelected planetary governor. And since the planetary government is also accountable in various ways to the Imperial government (which is obviously also unelected and unaccountable), that also imposes a limit on what choices the people can make via an elected parliament.Not just that, the governor can be elected too. The Imperium doesn't care who is the governor as long as he's loyal and fills his tithes. Considering that they don't object when the new governor is the man who assassinated the old one, they shouldn't object if it's just the new president elected for, let's say 10-year term (they could object to shorter terms though, as they tend to destabilise the political situation).

The Imperium encompasses all kinds of political systems, from communist proletarian totalitarisms through guild-dominated oligarchies to absolutist hereditary monarchies. It's not that far-fetched to think that there can be some true democracies in there.

Sceleris82
04-10-2009, 20:43
Aint the Utramar section pretty wealthy? The planet that the iron warriors destroyed was descriped as a paradise world.

Argastes
04-10-2009, 21:34
Not just that, the governor can be elected too. The Imperium doesn't care who is the governor as long as he's loyal and fills his tithes. Considering that they don't object when the new governor is the man who assassinated the old one, they shouldn't object if it's just the new president elected for, let's say 10-year term (they could object to shorter terms though, as they tend to destabilise the political situation).

So how do we square this with the fluff's statement that Imperial planetary governors are empowered to rule by a charter from the Adeptus Terra, often hereditary, that grants them authority over their planet? When planets are added to the Imperium, the Adeptus Terra picks the most likely-looking local magnate and gives them a piece of paper that makes them ruler of the planet in exchange for certain economic/military obligations to the Imperium. How would elections work in light of this?

EDIT: When a planetary governor is assassinated by a rival who takes his place, I would think that it's usually someone who would actually have a legitimate claim to be the one to inherit the office. A potential usurper within the circle of noble families that are close the governor's office would maneuver himself/herself into position to be able to make a succession claim, and then knock off the incumbent. So they can say to the Imperium, "well our planet's charter of governance states that the governor's office is hereditary, and poor old Lord Boron accidentally sliced his own throat open while shaving, and as you can see I am in line to inherit the office, so I'll just take a seat here on the governor's throne if you don't mind". Otherwise, I fail to see how assassinating the governor would earn you his position. If you assassinate the governor without any ability to make a claim on his office, you don't become governor; the dead governor's heir does.

Temmy
05-10-2009, 01:32
Only if i could be an Ork warboss. The 40k universe is pretty much an Orky paradise.

Iracundus
05-10-2009, 02:47
So how do we square this with the fluff's statement that Imperial planetary governors are empowered to rule by a charter from the Adeptus Terra, often hereditary, that grants them authority over their planet? When planets are added to the Imperium, the Adeptus Terra picks the most likely-looking local magnate and gives them a piece of paper that makes them ruler of the planet in exchange for certain economic/military obligations to the Imperium. How would elections work in light of this?


The position of Imperial Governor may go with the position of president, or whatever the local title is. However, your original statement of being ultimately an unelected and unaccountable government still holds true as the Imperium itself, with the Emperor and High Lords, is not elected and not accountable to the local citizens. The dictates of Imperial Law as enforced by the Arbites is also not subject to change or local modification.

Argastes
05-10-2009, 04:18
The position of Imperial Governor may go with the position of president, or whatever the local title is.

But how would this work... the locals periodically elect a president (or whatever), and whoever they elect gets to be the planetary governor as well? My whole point is that such an arrangement is incompatible with the way the Imperium appoints planetary governors. The Adeptus Terra decides who rules their planets, not the locals.

fall3nang3l
05-10-2009, 04:36
Only if i could be a Space Marine idc what kind, otherwise hell no.

Iracundus
05-10-2009, 05:35
But how would this work... the locals periodically elect a president (or whatever), and whoever they elect gets to be the planetary governor as well? My whole point is that such an arrangement is incompatible with the way the Imperium appoints planetary governors. The Adeptus Terra decides who rules their planets, not the locals.

Although technically the Adeptus Terra has to approve, this may be no more than a rubber stamp approval for whoever is elected, barring no gross incompatibility with Imperial ideals (such as ideas of secession or heretical beliefs). This holds true even for the traditional non-elected governors. If the king of the planet, or leading aristocratic house, is the one firmly in control, the one the Adeptus Terra "appoint" is likely to be the one already in control.

In Dark Heresy, it mentions how internal wars can be waged on a planet, even resulting in the complete toppling of the reigning Imperial governor, but the Imperium doesn't care so long as the tithes aren't threatened, and the new winner acknowledges continued membership in the Imperium.

Condottiere
07-10-2009, 11:42
A paradise world far removed from the frontlines and the main trade routes, with a population of around a billion and a couple of mini-hive cities, self-sustained. Laissez faire economy and a liberal governor.

Radium
07-10-2009, 21:57
The potential power you could field (NOT as a marine BTW, that life would just suck) is pretty awesome, but the chances of being caught in a war/daemonic invasion/Inquisitorial mad dash to the tiolet/whatever is just too high. So no, I wouldn't want to live in the 40k universe.

Raphaus
08-10-2009, 09:35
No. I wouldn't, that would be insane.

Raka
08-10-2009, 09:55
No.

No thank you sirs.

Dakkagor
08-10-2009, 10:02
not a chance. The 41st millenium is a miserable, dank horrific place where most people are living until they die in some meaningless nightmarish fashion at the hands of aliens, daemons or their own protectors.

Condottiere
08-10-2009, 10:31
Not exactly uncommon in this millenia, or the last, either.

pfulk4u
12-10-2009, 08:16
I want be a poor Guardsman in an Dark Eldar pleasure ring! (not really).

overlordofnobodies
12-10-2009, 12:31
No way in hell!
I may what to live in Fantasy but in 40k I may as well shoot my self.

Fugazi
12-10-2009, 17:12
No, it seems a rather unhappy place.

I'll wait for the 3D holographic wholly immersive experience. Maybe at Epcot?

Shrapnelsmile
19-10-2009, 01:45
The mountains are magestic, the cities electric, and combat drugs are cheap, in California.

Grimbad
19-10-2009, 02:32
The mountains are magestic, the cities electric, and combat drugs are cheap, in California.

Also the only place where undead robot overlords take supplies out of schools to feed war machines. :p

AngryAngel
19-10-2009, 06:19
Only if I could be an imperial guard commander, high enough in the ranks to be in the battle. Not high enough to just view where I'm sending men through some holo globe or the like. Would be pretty sweet to see some of these horrible battles, and even if I died, well everyone dies.

Askil the Undecided
19-10-2009, 06:55
Only if I could be an imperial guard commander, high enough in the ranks to be in the battle. Not high enough to just view where I'm sending men through some holo globe or the like. Would be pretty sweet to see some of these horrible battles, and even if I died, well everyone dies.

So not only do you want to throw yourself into immediate peril but you want to order thousands into battle to die for your amusement too?

Israfael
19-10-2009, 06:59
So not only do you want to throw yourself into immediate peril but you want to order thousands into battle to die for your amusement too?

That man has a bright future in today's military. :p

AngryAngel
20-10-2009, 05:32
So not only do you want to throw yourself into immediate peril but you want to order thousands into battle to die for your amusement too?

It's a tough job but in the imperium, someone has to do it.

Terminatorphoenix
20-10-2009, 08:29
Only if I could be a Legio Custodes Brethren, that would be a pretty sweet job tbh

Death Company
20-10-2009, 08:45
Depends.. are we simply picking where we want to go? If so, I probably wouldn't mind being a Primarch. :D

genestealer_baldric
20-10-2009, 10:18
Short answer: NO
Long answer : HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

noobzor
21-10-2009, 03:56
Well, being an eldar pathfinder would be kinda cool and sneaky... until you screw up and die horribly. No thanks.

Darkmatyr
21-10-2009, 11:28
Sure as long as I got to be the Hive Mind....alright fine.....a Norn Queen then :D

Actually being serious...not to sure, I suppose if I got be a Space Wolf or a Dark Eldar (not to sure about that...could be very detrimental....) I'd be...kinda? happy to live in the 40k universe otherwise I'll stick to the present.

Gdolkin
21-10-2009, 14:13
Argastes' and Iracundus' posts on the governance of Imperial Planets brings to mind the short story Elucidium by Simon Spurrier, from What Price Victory?. The world of Garial-Fall is administrated by a vast senate called the Plureaucracy, but anything important that they decide is ultimately approved or vetoed by the Imperial Governor. The story is also an excellent example of a society that is stable, comfortable, mostly content etc. suddenly discovering itself to be infested with Genestealers and tearing itself apart. Imagine being pale, bald, and with heavy brows in an Imperial society, or the paranoia one might have about individuals who match that description.. Do you want to be contagii, and spawn foul abominations?

Luisjoey
21-10-2009, 16:32
I would like to live and die for glory as a SPACE MARINE! maybe then become a rogue trader XD

Threeshades
22-10-2009, 00:51
Not if I have to be a human. Or Tau, Ork, Tyranid or Necrontyr for that matter. Well maybe an Ork, but the rest are either in miserable predicaments or feeble.

Giving it a second thought, living in an extremely inconsqequent universe where not even the past remains the way it is and happenings just contradict each other, I'm not sure I would want to be something as fragile as a living creature. Or an existing thing for that matter.

Condottiere
22-10-2009, 11:28
It's probably a matter of statistics and place of domicile. Just like here.

tezdal
24-10-2009, 19:22
well if I did have to be in the uni, I think Id have to be an ork, they're always happy, and thoroughly enjoy their work

Warp-Juicer
24-10-2009, 19:44
Chaos Daemon.