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View Full Version : who can i strick? question.



kyinpie
20-09-2009, 14:45
right, its a little complicated to explain but i'll try, and let you all get your rule books out and get stuck in. :)

right, i charged my unit of tomb guard with a tomb king armed with the destoyer of eternities (DoE), into the flank of a treeman. i fumbled all my roles and failed to break or wound the treeman. my opponents next turn he charged a unit of wardancers with a hero into the rear of the tomb gaurd. during that combat phase the wardancers killed all the remaining tomb gaurd (9 rank and file) except the front rank (king, champ, banner bearer and two rank and file).

heres a before diagram:-


w
w -tc
w ttt MM
w ttt MM
h ttk
w ttt
w

w= wardancers
h= wardancer hero
t= tomb gaurd
c= tomb gaurd champion
k= tomb king
M= treeman

after the wardancers attacked

w
w c
w t MM
w t MM
h k
w t
w


when it was my tomb kings turn to attck (treeman failed to wound) i went to use the tomb kings spacial attack from the DoE. im in base contact with the treeman two wardancers and the wardancer hero. so would i get to attack them all as im in base contact? or do i only get the attacks on the treeman as the wardancers wasnt in base to base contact at the start of the combat?

i have looked this up and this is what i found:-

BRB page 32 'which models fight?' first paragragh'

'models can fight if they in base contact with an enemy model when its thier chance to attack, even if the bases only touch at the corners. even models attacked in the side or rear may fight.'

this tells me yes i can as they are now in base to base contact when its the kings turn to attack.


brb page 36 'removing casaulties' secound paragraph

'.....also models that are removed before they have had a chance to attack may not do so, and models that are stepping forward from the rear ranks to replace them can't attack that turn'

brb page 46 , redress the ranks' fifth paragragh

'if a unit is engaged from its rear, or if a unit in a single line is engaged from the flanks, removing casulties could force some enemy units to lose contact with the unit.in these rare cases, move these units forward to keep in contact with the models they are killing.'

these two rules seem to say that the wardancers are moving forward, and not the king steping in place of a rank and file. also these rules are refering to rank and file models and not charecters.

tomb king army book page 36 'magic weapons' destroyer of eternities

'....if the special attack is chosen, ALL enemy models that are touching the tomb king take two automatic hits. ...

my understanding is, the wardancers and the hero was in base to base contact.

i also believe that even if the wardancers killed 8 tomb gaurd instead of the 9, my tomb king would still be in base to base contact, due to this rule

brb page 36 in the box 'close combat & incomplete ranks' 2nd paragragh

'if the unit is fighting to its rear, some enemy models might end up not in base contact with the enemy becouse of the models in the incomplete rear rank. (diagram 36.2) in this situation, models can attack the models in the enemy unit, even if not physically in base to base contact.'


i have searched the charecter section and have found no more that doesnt repeat some of the above.
my understanding the DoE could attack the wardancers.

have i missed something? if so could you quote the page number please, i would like to clear this up.

thanks ky

theunwantedbeing
20-09-2009, 15:00
Yes the Destroyer of Eternities will affect the wardancers who are now in base contact with him.

T10
20-09-2009, 15:55
You determine which models are in base contact with the Tomb King at the time he makes his attack. The Tomb King is considered to be in base contact with the Treeman and up to three war dancers. This would even be the case if there was a single surviving Tomb Guard rank-and-file model in the second rank.

-T10

kyinpie
22-09-2009, 14:53
thank you guys!

one last question, is this a generic rule, or is it a rule from the DoE that allows this, or both?

thanks ky

vilo
22-09-2009, 15:51
correct me if i am wrong guys but i thought that you "redress the ranks" at the end of combat, not halfway through.

the only thing i can think of is the incomplete ranks and being engaged in the rear that will allow you to do this, as you count as being in base contact with those behind you. But i really feel that you cannot do this but I will have to wait till I get home to find out if this is the case or not (at work at the mo and no rulebook to hand). My feeling is that you killed all models in base contact with the rear unit so you can only attack to the front.

kyinpie
22-09-2009, 16:08
correct me if i am wrong guys but i thought that you "redress the ranks" at the end of combat, not halfway through.

the only thing i can think of is the incomplete ranks and being engaged in the rear that will allow you to do this, as you count as being in base contact with those behind you. But i really feel that you cannot do this but I will have to wait till I get home to find out if this is the case or not (at work at the mo and no rulebook to hand). My feeling is that you killed all models in base contact with the rear unit so you can only attack to the front.

if you can find something i would be greatfull, as i'd rather do this correctly. in the case above it changed the combat dramaticly!!!

ky

tarrasque
22-09-2009, 21:47
redress the ranks has nothing to do whit it.
if you are charge in the rear and the is no tomb guard behind the tk the the changes are great this wil attact the front and the rear.

just remember that is he is in base 2 base you can not move in your unit. otherwise you could put hem any where in combat in your movement face

Atrahasis
23-09-2009, 12:40
As vilo says, redress ranks doesn't happen until after break tests etc.

The Wardancers didn't/shouldn't move up into base contact with the front rank - they stay wherer they made contact with the unit until redress ranks. The King will therefore not be in base contact with any of the Wardancers when he activates the Destroyer.

ARabidNun
23-09-2009, 15:00
I support the responses of Atrahasis and tarrasque. The ranks are not readdressed until the end of combat.

As per your quote from the rules:

'.....also models that are removed before they have had a chance to attack may not do so, and models that are stepping forward from the rear ranks to replace them can't attack that turn' but this is more for combat to the front allowing troops in the rear to move forward.

The rules for the DoE treat it as if it works all of its effects during the combat phase of the Tomb King player, including the rule for challenges. Therefore, since the combat phase is worked out as a single structured "phase" it would be unfair to allow the king to "attack" to the rear since they were not in contact in the beginning. Similar to declaring the target of your attacks before actually rolling any dice.