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View Full Version : Great Unclean One- Is 10 wounds and a 5+ ward enough?



BigbyWolf
20-09-2009, 16:00
Recently picked up the DoC book and thinking about putting together a 2k army to keep me busy until the new BoC book arrives.

I've always had a soft spot for the GUO, so would really like to take on as the general of my army. Looking through the book I like the look of the Balesword, but from what I've seen of other builds people always give him the Tappings of Nurgle, which doesn't leave enough points for the sword...

10 wounds and a ward seems fairly impressive to me- but is it enough for a large target that can't join units? And with only 4 attacks at WS4 I feel the Balesword is a must to give him extra hitting power, or do you consider the flail to be enough?

What I have come down to are the following options- Trappings of Nurgle and Nurgling Infestation with Flail, or Balesword and Vapours...what would people suggest?

Finally I should add that I'm considering a Nurgle/ Slaanesh list using Nurgle troops to engage head on and Slaanesh units to flank charge, with no Pink Horrors, Flamers or Fleshhounds in sight. So I'd love suggestions on which of the GOU builds would benefit that idea the most.

And last but not least, slightly off topic, but am I right in thinking that if you don't have Tzeenchian characters in an army, you don't get access to dispel scroll equivalents?

Any input appreciated!

Falkman
20-09-2009, 16:33
And last but not least, slightly off topic, but am I right in thinking that if you don't have Tzeenchian characters in an army, you don't get access to dispel scroll equivalents?
Bloodthirsters can carry them as well, but other than that you're right.

Ramius4
20-09-2009, 16:35
It's VERY worth it. How many 10 wound models with T6 and a 5+ ward have you faced and taken down?

Unless you're facing overwhelming shooting from cannons and bolt throwers he'll be fine. It's a GUO. Don't be scared to take a few shots.

And you're correct, without Tzeentch characters you can't get dispel scroll equivalents.

WhiteKnight
20-09-2009, 18:01
I thought GUOs are lv 2 wizards? Do only tzeentch characters get dispel scroll equivalents or can any wizard get them.

zeekill
20-09-2009, 18:09
How many 10 wound models with T6 and a 5+ ward have you faced and taken down?

Every single one. Skink Blowipes. :D

Quahua
20-09-2009, 19:32
I think that the Balesword + Vapours is better than the Trappings.

About hitting opponents with 4 Ws4 attacks, I think that the Miasma of Pestilence is the key. Reducing your enemys Ws to 1, is more than enough to hit them dead.

snottlebocket
20-09-2009, 20:09
If you ask me a guo's main strength is magic. The combat options are alright but it still won't make him great in combat. (take a bloodthirster or a keeper of secrets instead) Give it trappings and a decent magic level and start slinging those spells. The demon lore of nurgle is very nasty and the guo's toughness, wounds and trappings mean it's not bothered by almost all miscast results.

That means you can easily roll 5 dice on whatever spell you want to use. Sure sometimes you'll miscast, but you'll also roll a lot of IR's and very high casting values. My demon army almost always won by virtue of the GUO's spells, a couple of IR nurgle spells will rip the heart out of the opposing army. If he does make it into combat, you still have a very high unit strength, trappings and a flail giving you str8 in addition to that very nice default spell. With high defensive stats a guo is going to hold up any combat without falling over until you can flank them with something. (most people won't want to charge it anyway)

bork da basher
20-09-2009, 22:11
i take a GUO with trappings and nurgling infestation and a lvl 4. he is nigh unkillable with trappings and at first i thought it was over the top and maybe better spend elsewhere. one game against a shooty army and you change your mind. 10 wounds seems like a lot but when your facing 2 great cannons and a hellblaster + craploads of handgunners etc your easily capable of loosing him before he reaches combat.

at the points investment clocking well over 600pts its also great VP denial as the miniature simply won't die you can afford to be reckless and smash into whatever you choose. yes he doesn't kill much but once he gets going and with his nurgling swarm in close proximity the duo become a serious threat especially since on average he poops out 10 nurgling bases a game. crazy stuff.

sulla
20-09-2009, 22:21
Keep the stubborn banner nearby, head straight for combat and you generally grind your way through anything. Especially with pestilent mucous to help you out. I like that and the staff, or that and trappings if up against a gunline. I prefer the staff but usually wimp out and go for the protection.

Kayosiv
21-09-2009, 00:32
Every single one. Skink Blowipes. :D

Why aren't Nurgle demons immune to poison in this edition again? Too busy being -1 to hit for no reason? Yeah that must be it. :D

Nathangonmad
21-09-2009, 00:59
Why aren't Nurgle demons immune to poison in this edition again? Too busy being -1 to hit for no reason? Yeah that must be it. :D

nurgle daemons arn't -1 to hit them thats normal nurgle :P

zerachiel
21-09-2009, 03:54
Why aren't Nurgle demons immune to poison in this edition again? Too busy being -1 to hit for no reason? Yeah that must be it. :D

It's... Magic poison? Considering the Lizardmen are more anti-Chaos than High Elves, their Skinks could be using some kind of banishing powder, or just spitting Icons of Sigmar at them. The rulebook did mention that 'poison' is different for different races. It could be Holy Spit, or just soap-coated needles.

Draconian77
21-09-2009, 06:05
Trappings of Nurgle+Slime Trail+Stream of Corruption+Lv3/4 Mage

Won't die to artillery and should be able to avoid most charges via free pivots.
Proceed to puke on expensive infantry whilst casting magic and generally cause Terror.

I don't think the Balesword or the Vapours have much of a use on the GUO.

Izram
21-09-2009, 11:58
I am of the opinion that taking trappings and using his magic/breath attack is somewhat a waste of points. 600+ points for a wizard is sort of steep, even if he is very difficult to kill.

I like the balesword+noxious fumes combo to take on units that nurgle generally has trouble with. Essentially, any fast mover that nurglings can't handle. The combat GUO can still throw around his magic, but he really shines against heavy cav sporting character. He seems like a decent can-opener for blood knights.

Draconian77
21-09-2009, 12:13
Well, when I say not get into combat, what that actually means is "Don't get into a risky combat", if you see a flank go for it, etc.

The Balesword wounds automatically, which really isn't that much of an improvement over wounding on 2+ against 99% percent of the things that he will actually be fighting. The D6 wounds effect is nice if gets the chance to use it though.

Noxious makes no sense on a Great Unclean One as far as I can see, if you had just taken Trappings, then it wouldn't matter that they get to strike first most of the time because they-can't-hurt-you. :D

It also makes him much harder to kill with shooting, as a nifty side effect.

You went up against Blood Knights you would definately need the 3 saves. :angel:

Well, these are just my thoughts and experiences. The more combat he sees, the more he tends to die. Treat him like a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch with a Dragons breath attack and he should cause problems for your opponent.

PeG
21-09-2009, 13:47
In the games I have seen the GUO is rarely killed in combat or by shooting mostly because everyone knows he is difficult to kill and picks other targets. However Teclis should be able to take him down with IF and pit of shades or some other nasty IF spell and in that case trappings will not do him much good.

Draconian77
21-09-2009, 13:58
Right...one of the most broken Wizards in Warhammer has a (Off the top of my head he is I4) 33% of killing him if he gets the spell off. Not a problem. ;)

Heck, add the Standard of Sundering and Teclis should struggle to cast the Pit of Shades spell every turn. (He still needs to reach the casting value.)

PeG
21-09-2009, 14:40
I am just saying that to normal enemies he wont die anyway and against the ones that are actually more likely to kill him trappings doesnt help.

Izram
21-09-2009, 15:25
...

You went up against Blood Knights you would definately need the 3 saves. :angel:

Well, these are just my thoughts and experiences. The more combat he sees, the more he tends to die. Treat him like a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch with a Dragons breath attack and he should cause problems for your opponent.

Won't be getting the AS from BK anyways, and god forbid you get a vamp with fire lance! ;)

What I am talking about, is when you challenge and there is only one rank of them, so he can't refuse. Very likely you can get one or 2 wounds in. In my experiance, if I don't botch everything, i can get two hits, which auto-wound, and if the player doesn't have something very nifty to save them, I can get max overkill and cause them to lose by a hefty margin, causing expensive loss to CR, being my turn next, that usually means the enemy doesn't have the chance to raise them back. Works the same against any nasty combat unit that is one rank deep.

I find that, in combat, the extra regen save does less than just killing whoever would attack you. Even with trappings, big nasty combat lords don't fear you, as you can't put out any respectable damage. With the sword, things like bloodthirsters and dragon lords are more wary of charging in. Also it is a nice weapon to have against ogre-sized enemies. Maybe go hydra hunting?

The trappings would be preferable in a more magic heavy situation, where you might want to keep your GUO out of combat to spam rancid visitation + staff. Any situation where you don't want to go hunting large things. It would also be preferrable if you knew you were facing poisoned shooting attacks.

In general, I try to be more agressive. A nurgle daemon army can be sort of a bore to play against; having a more aggressive build makes the game more enjoyable. Playing nurgle at all, you are already sacrificing a lot of hitty-ness for survivability. Trappings is just another brick in the wall in creating a solid block of cant-hurt-or-be-hurt.

Draconian77
21-09-2009, 15:46
I am just saying that to normal enemies he wont die anyway and against the ones that are actually more likely to kill him trappings doesnt help.

Every GUO without Trappins that I have fought against has been shot to death or the the brink of death long before he ever reached combat. I just don't think that you can rely on a 5+ save against war machines and being a large target, quite a few wounds where caused from small arms fire aswell.


What I am talking about, is when you challenge and there is only one rank of them, so he can't refuse. Very likely you can get one or 2 wounds in. In my experiance, if I don't botch everything, i can get two hits, which auto-wound, and if the player doesn't have something very nifty to save them, I can get max overkill and cause them to lose by a hefty margin, causing expensive loss to CR, being my turn next, that usually means the enemy doesn't have the chance to raise them back. Works the same against any nasty combat unit that is one rank deep.

Being helpful against one type of unit just doesn't seem worth the cost of the sword, especially if you get shot before you get to use it. I can understand your point of view, but it's definately not how I would equip him.

He is a 500+pts model, your general and in most cases your primary source of magical offense and defense.

If he dies, you will probably lose but if he survives you will probably win. When an upgade makes him 4 times as hard to kill in some cases for a mere 50pts, it just seems mad not to take it. :D


I find that, in combat, the extra regen save does less than just killing whoever would attack you. Even with trappings, big nasty combat lords don't fear you, as you can't put out any respectable damage. With the sword, things like bloodthirsters and dragon lords are more wary of charging in.

In most cases a Dragon Lord won't charge a GUO with Trappings because he knows that he will get bogged down and in all likelihood, get run down or die before the GUO.

The main factor is that a Dragon could charge a GUO if he wanted, but your GUO with the sword will never get the charge against the Dragon. I don't like the fact the most of it's best targets(large targets) can simply avoid it. (Hydras are always in the damn terrain, mumble+gumble :D)
(The rest tend to fly.)

Not just Poisoned shooting attacks...all shooting attacks. :eek:
Honestly, a few Rxb/Bow/Crossbow/Cannonballs/Stones/Bolts shots inflict wounds on it at an alarming rate if it doesn't have Trappings.

I'm definately more defensive. Bear in mind that I'm talking about a GUO in a mixed list, not a pure Nurgle list. You will get your killy stuff from other parts of the book. Anyway, doesn't look like either of us are going to change our position so really there is no point discussing it. ;)

BigbyWolf
25-09-2009, 14:35
Thanks for all the advice, looking at it again the sword does only seem to be usefull against characters or monsters, even the flail would be a better "tin-opener" in most situations. I'll probably go for the trappings for the added protection, as 10 wounds, a 5+ ward, and AS and regen means that if he does get into a combat with something tough, he's liable to be around long enough for his 4 attacks to kill the opponent eventually!

sulla
25-09-2009, 22:45
Thanks for all the advice, looking at it again the sword does only seem to be usefull against characters or monsters, even the flail would be a better "tin-opener" in most situations. I'll probably go for the trappings for the added protection, as 10 wounds, a 5+ ward, and AS and regen means that if he does get into a combat with something tough, he's liable to be around long enough for his 4 attacks to kill the opponent eventually!With such low WS and attacks, eventually is right. If you really want to hurt things in combat, you will need pestilent mucous. A t test or no armour save wound on every model in BTB for every wound you take means the entire front rank dead if you make it into combat vs elites most times.

SevenSins
26-09-2009, 12:14
a mucus GUO is an entirely different animal, more like a suicide bomber. I'd give him minimum upgrades in this case

trappings are golden, and a necessity if you give him lvl3/4 I think (protect your investment)

Izram
26-09-2009, 16:34
Thanks for all the advice, looking at it again the sword does only seem to be usefull against characters or monsters, even the flail would be a better "tin-opener" in most situations.

Keep in mind, the Bale Sword is not a weapon per se, just a gift. He still counts as using a flail, for the strength bonus.