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Dr. Acula
20-09-2009, 23:27
I had a thread a few days ago about BoC, but having checked the rulebook and seen that they're somewhat nerfed for now I'm going to go with VC, at least until the new BoC book comes out.

I want the army to be fairly elite. I'm planning, at least with the first 1000 points, to keep it as small as possible to suggest a newly created vampire and his retinue. That way I can expand it to include the vampire that sired him etc. Anyway, this list probably won't be competitive, but does it seem reasonable to fit this starting point.

Vampire - Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte, Flayed Hauberk, Biting Blade, Black Periapt - 195

Necromancer - Extra spell (Vanhels), Book of Arkhan - 105

20 Skeletons - Full Command, Banner of the Dread Legion - 205

20 Skeletons - Full Command - 180

10 Grave Guard - Full Command - 150

Varghulf - 175

The plan would be to keep the army fairly tight and coherent with the Grave Guard/Vampire in the middle as a placeholder (I didn't want the vampire going anywhere without an armour save). The skeletons can protect the flanks whilst the Varghulf rampages.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Buying order will be:

20 Skeletons
Vampire (possibly converted from an Empire general kit, you do get two models from one box don't you?)
10 Grave Guard + Varghulf
20 Skeletons

I've got an old wizard somewhere that will do as a Necromancer for the time being. I'm also trying to keep the financial cost as low as possible. As a student I'm trying to keep prices down, so if I can manage to get away with a cheaper army I'm all for hearing it.

puppetmaster24
20-09-2009, 23:37
i cannot see the point in the 10 grave guard at all, they just don't have the static res to servive any legthy combat. you would better off with a corpse cart for the necromancer and more magic stuff on your units.

slayerofmen
21-09-2009, 10:10
I'd have to add you may be better off getting yourself a mini bunker of ghouls for your vampire with a ghast to accept challenges, as already stated 10 man block of GG are going to go down fast.

take the banner off the skeletons its not really going to be that great.

take the musos off the skeletons, i know it seems like small points but you are hardly ever going to draw combats to need it.

with points ditch the biting blade for sword of might and drop the black periapt at this points level you should be spamming those dice*.

you may also want to look into the night shroud if you go the ghoul bunker as you can then get the ghouls side by side attacking first too and i know its light armour but a S6 3 A w6 vamp is not likely to leave (much) standing if its bigger then the vamp, the vamp is likely to die anyway

how attached to the vargulf are you, a unit of 2 wraiths with a banshee might be better to spread some terror and to get rid of pesky warmachines and march blockers

*please do not over spam (yes over spam lol)

Falkman
21-09-2009, 10:21
you may also want to look into the night shroud if you go the ghoul bunker as you can then get the ghouls side by side attacking first too
No, the armour doesn't allow that, it only works on people actually choosing to attack the vampire, so won't help the Ghouls at all (unless the models across the Ghouls decide to attack the Vampire of course).

Dr. Acula
21-09-2009, 10:29
I'm not really attached to anything in the list. Wraiths sound quite fun, and I guess they could be a pretty cool conversion.

With the points saved though will a unit of Blood Knights be an alternative investment? Insane combat abilities but I imagine they'll be a fairly large points sink (265 points for 5 + standard/champ).

I went with the Biting Blade on the thought that he would be able to negate 4+ saves without trouble and could still afford the Black Periapt. I was working on the fact that it is unlikely that there will be anyone t6 or above so I'll usually wound on 2+/3+, is s6 really worth it (it's tasty but perhaps overkill for 1000 points)?

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming.

slayerofmen
21-09-2009, 10:38
the S6 in the end is better just in case 2+ wounding T4 models is a good combo in my book. as for the black periapt. i still say leave it at home.

blood knights a re a very bad idea for 1000pts, they will either be countered nice and early and spend the game doing nothing. or will be shot to hell as the protection you could give them would eat half your army, not a guess it WILL eat half your points.

@falkman, yeah i know i didn't explain it well, it comes down to what wants to attacks what after that its on I which lets the ghouls strike first.

"you may also want to look into the night shroud if you go the ghoul bunker as you CAN then get the ghouls side by side attacking first too" -me
emphasis mine

vamp unit gets charged: three guys are going to attack the vampire so become I1 strike last no charge bonuses, so the vampire attacks then the non affected models in the enemy unit then the ghouls then the affected models as they have elected to attck the vamp they are I1. i hope that makes sense.

edit: this is of course on my reading of the rules from both the BRB and the item so relies heavily on attack order and target choice

Mullitron
21-09-2009, 13:23
I kind of agree the grave guard are a little weak at that size. I would drop the grave guard, replace the necromancer with another vampire also with lord of the dead. Then you can reduce the size of the skeleton units and rely on invocation to raise them up to a larger size. With the points spare you could add some wolves or bats to help with your flanks and maybe even get a flank charge in to help your skeleton combats.

Dr. Acula
21-09-2009, 17:24
Thanks for that. I went to my local GW earlier and picked up a box of skeletons, a box of ghouls and an Empire General to convert to a vampire.

How would you suggest running some wolves? I was thinking units of 15 skeletons (only 3 boxes so cheaper :D), 10 ghouls and 2 units of 5 wolves. I'll write up a proper list later on for perusal, but would that seem reasonable? Alternatively, would some black knights and a mounted second vampire be a good idea? He wouldn't necessarily need a magic weapon but I could tool him out as a damage dealer/caster - dread knight and lord of the dead?

Dr. Acula
21-09-2009, 18:32
Ok, I've done another list. I've not gone with wolves, but I think this is potentially a powerful list.

Vampire (General, with Grave Guard)
- Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte, Black Periapt, Biting Blade
180

Vampire (with Skeletons/Ghouls)
- Lord of the Dead, Sword of Might, Nightshroud
150

15 Skeletons
- Champion, Standard Bearer
136

15 Skeletons
- Champion, Standard Bearer
136

10 Ghouls
- Champion
88

20 Grave Guard
- Champion, Standard Bearer, Banner of the Barrows
309

The Grave Guard are a very expensive unit, but I think that coupled with a LoD vampire they'll be able to be kept at full strength for long enough to get into combat and start hammering away.

Maoriboy007
21-09-2009, 21:23
Well, you only need two core units, so maybe drop the ghouls since youve already gone with skeletons. Use the points to give your combat vampire dreadknight (3+ armour and an extra str 4 attack is decent) and/or eternal hatred.
Tomb blade or blood drinker comes in handy in low point battles, makes spamming invocation a little less vital.

Dr. Acula
21-09-2009, 21:31
I'd rather not drop the Ghouls. Mostly because I've just got the models (and they look quite cool actually) but they're not a bad unit in my eyes. Perhaps I should drop a skeleton unit completely and add in something with some more punch - Black Knights or something and then get that second Vampire mounted?

Maoriboy007
21-09-2009, 22:49
Could drop one of the skeletons and buff up the ghoul unit, although many would say that its a no no, ghouls are decent enough to be worth taking without the raising bloodline, in a large enough unit.

slayerofmen
22-09-2009, 08:56
in my experience (and my army) even at 2250 pts a unit (or two) of 10 man ghouls is actually a good idea as a support unit, much in the same vein as a detachment for empire, they have a good T and S 2 attacks poisoned charge it into a flank and watch the win.

however in this role drop the ghoul champ, and id drop lord of the dead and take avatar of death on your first vamp yes you cant raise over but without a general you cant raise at all

Dr. Acula
23-09-2009, 19:43
I've got an alternative, fairly elite list here - what do you think?

Vampire (with 19 Skeletons)
Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte, Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk
195

Vampire (with Black Knights)
Dread Knight, Walking Death, Sword of Might, Book of Arkhan
200

20 Skeletons
Standard Bearer, Champion
176

19 Skeletons
Standard Bearer, Champion, Banner of Endless Nightmare
193

6 Black Knights
Standard Bearer, Champion, Royal Standard of Strigos
227

Maoriboy007
23-09-2009, 21:57
Actually looks like a pretty good list to me, decent magic, solid heros, good infantry blocks and knights for punch. Nothing too broken either. Raise dead might come in handy to get you an extra unit if you look out numbered. Just a note tomb blade only allows you to regain casualties not bring units above thier starting strength (still very handy in the thick of battle).
Since you have Lord of the dead on your general, why dont you take off 4 skeletons from a unit (15 is still perfectly respectable and LotD should bring them back fairly easily) and make your vampire knight a BSB for 25 points? (a total of +2 CR! or give him eternal hatred instead of WD)

Dr. Acula
23-09-2009, 22:05
I don't think I need Eternal Hatred do I, not with the Strigos banner - don't they just give the same effect? I was planning on hitting the Black Knights into the flank to break a unit in a turn - I could probably hope for 3/4 kills from the knights and then 2/3 from the Vampire. Coupled with the other skeletons and the rank bonus from them, I think that should easily break all but the hardest of units.

Re the Tomb Blade - will it work if I've increased the size of the unit and then suffered casualties from those. For instance, the unit starts at 19, is raised to 25 then 5 die. Can the Tomb Blade resurrect those 5, or is it only the original 19?

Nathangonmad
23-09-2009, 22:55
I don't think I need Eternal Hatred do I, not with the Strigos banner - don't they just give the same effect?

Yes they give same effect. Your last list is good.