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Eternus
21-09-2009, 07:03
This is probably a daft question with a one word answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway, seeing as I'm going to be using my WoC army for the first time tomorrow and this is a big part of how their characters work.

Seeing as unit champions can accept a challenge, can you issue a challenge if the unit you are attacking only has a champion and no 'character'? To put it into context, WoC characters with the Eye of the Gods special rule must issue a challenge if able to do so, so would they issue a challenge if they only have a champion to fight, and if they kill a champion, do they get a roll on the Eye of the Gods table?

The WoC book says they get to roll if they kill an enemy Character or model with the 'Large Target' rule, but as champions can accept challenges, this confuses things, and could mean that you could sacrifice your champions not only to save your characters from getting killed by WoC characters, also prevent them from rolling on the Eye of the Gods table - is this right?

Milgram
21-09-2009, 07:39
yes, champions can issue and accept challenges as if they were characters. though they are not characters.

you do not get to roll for the EotG when you kill a champion. with a chaos shrine you get to roll for your champions if they kill a character/monster - but still not for killing champions.

almost the only time you will roll on the EotG table is when you field a shrine or choosen ones. or in the last two turns of a game.

the 'must challenge' rule is also a life saver for casters within a unit w/o champion. they always can refuse and therefore will not get hit in CC.

sulla
21-09-2009, 07:49
If there is an enemy champion, then your chaos character is able to issue a challenge... so he must.

Unfortunately, champions don't count as characters for the purpose of eye of the gods rolls.

Eternus
21-09-2009, 07:49
So the presence of a champion in the enemy unit will compel a WoC character to issue a challenge, but the WoC character does not get to roll on the Eye of the Gods table if he kills said doomed champion?

Avian
21-09-2009, 07:52
The Eye of the Gods rule is just one of those minor, annoying rules you just have to live with. I just accept that I have to challenge whenever I can and get on with it. At least I don't have to spend time considering whether it would be an advantage or not. I do wish they could have put more thought into it to make it more interesting. Or have used the FAQ as an opportunity to make it something interesting.


the 'must challenge' rule is also a life saver for casters within a unit w/o champion. they always can refuse and therefore will not get hit in CC.
Enemy casters, that is. ;)

Eternus
21-09-2009, 07:55
The Eye of the Gods rule is just one of those minor, annoying rules you just have to live with. I just accept that I have to challenge whenever I can and get on with it. At least I don't have to spend time considering whether it would be an advantage or not.


Doesn't bother me much - most champions are no more difficult to kill than standard rank and file, and at least in a challenge I get overkill. ;)

Avian
21-09-2009, 10:19
So the presence of a champion in the enemy unit will compel a WoC character to issue a challenge, but the WoC character does not get to roll on the Eye of the Gods table if he kills said doomed champion?
That is correct. In practice it doesn't make for any great difference as most of the time, opposing players who want to get your guy into a challenge can do so anyway.

Milgram
21-09-2009, 11:37
but sometimes they forget. and instead of bashing 3-4 r&f models AND the champion and thus costing them a rank, you just beat down the champion while the chariot that you incidentally happen to stand on can only attack with the beasts that are pulling it. :)

Avian
21-09-2009, 11:46
Correct, if you take an unusual character setup and compare it to what it would have been otherwise if your opponent didn't make wise choices, it can be a disadvantage, yes.

Eternus
21-09-2009, 12:25
Well the Chosen of Sabyllus the Excruciator are off for their first outing tomorrow, led by Beloved Arabellus, and he's just going to head for the unit with the most characters in it and politely attempt to coax Eye of the Gods rolls out of them. He might well be ably to pick and choose his fights as well, as the enemy will be too busy trying to avoid Archaon, who is leading the other half of our joint army, to worry about what my inconspicuous Exahlted Champion and his Warrior bodyguard are up to. :angel:

PeG
21-09-2009, 12:33
Since both WoC and champions have to challenge what can they do in the following situation;

A WoC unit contains a caster, a fighting hero and a champion and gets into cc with an enemy unit containing models capable of accepting challenges. Who of the WoC models issues a challenge?

1) all of them and the opponent choses which one (if any) to accept
2) Anyone of the three models, WoC player decides
3) One of the characters, the champion may not challenge due to that characters are present

Personally I am convinced that no3 is wrong and since there can only be one challenge at the time each of the two first ones makes as much sense as the other

Eternus
21-09-2009, 12:59
Since both WoC and champions have to challenge what can they do in the following situation;

A WoC unit contains a caster, a fighting hero and a champion and gets into cc with an enemy unit containing models capable of accepting challenges. Who of the WoC models issues a challenge?

1) all of them and the opponent choses which one (if any) to accept
2) Anyone of the three models, WoC player decides
3) One of the characters, the champion may not challenge due to that characters are present

Personally I am convinced that no3 is wrong and since there can only be one challenge at the time each of the two first ones makes as much sense as the other

Well I would have said option 2.

Avian
21-09-2009, 13:07
Chaos models that may issue challenges must do so whenever they are able to. If someone else on their side issues a challenge then nobody else is able to and thus the condition has been met.

Milgram
21-09-2009, 13:14
Correct, if you take an unusual character setup and compare it to what it would have been otherwise if your opponent didn't make wise choices, it can be a disadvantage, yes.

i sense irony in your words.