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Axis
23-09-2009, 02:46
I've been posting on these lists a few times lately and thought i might put my list out there and see what people think. First, the list is not for 'ard boyz since there is no such thing here in Australia. Secondly, my gaming group is semi-competitive. By that i mean we all make lists to win but not to the extent that i usually see on boards like this. So bear that in mind.

I am newish to Orcs and Goblins. I've played something like 7-8 games with this list mostly against lizardmen and dark elves (though i have been tinkering with it for a while). It has done much better than expected. Given all the things i read on the internet i was expecting to get rolled a lot.. but this just hasn't happened.

Lords
Black Orc Warboss: Heavy Armour, Shaga's Screaming Sword, Bigged's Kickin' Boots, Enchanted Shield, Boar. 270
Orc Great Shaman: Lvl 4, Staff of Baduumm, Amulet of Protecyness, Dispel Scroll. 305

Heroes
Black Orc Big Boss: Heavy Armour, Battle Standard Bearer, Warboss Umm's Best Boss 'At, Nibbla's 'Itty Ring. 164
Goblin Big Boss: Light Armour, Shield, Backstabber's Blade, Gigantic Spider. 104
Night Goblin Big Boss: Light Armour, Shield, Martog's Best Basha, Mad Cap Mushrooms. 69
Goblin Big Boss: Light Armour, Shield, Brimstone Bauble, Sneaky Skewerer, Wolf. 86

Core
23 Orc Boyz: Shields, Full Command. 168
19 Orc Big 'Uns: Shields, Full Command, Gork's Waaagh! Banner. 245
10 Wolf Riders: Musician+Standard, Spears. 148
10 Spider Riders: Musician+Standard. 148
30 Night Goblins: Nets, Full Command, 3 Fanatics. 220

Special
20 Black Orcs: Shields, Full Command, Mork's Spirit Totem. 368
Rock Lobber: Bully. 75
2 Spear Chukkas: Bullies. 80
Orc Board Chariot: Additional Crew. 85

Rare
3 Stone Trolls. 180
Giant. 205
Goblin Doom Diver. 80

Power Dice: 6 + 1 Bound Spell.
Dispel Dice: 7.

I put the Warboss in the big 'Uns, the great shaman and Black Orc Battle Standard Bearer in the Boyz, the Night Goblin Big Boss in the night goblins, the Wolf Big Boss in the Wolf Riders, the Spider Big Boss in the Spider Riders.

The army is exactly 3000 points. I know some of the choices aren't standard and i can give explanations if you want. I find the list has superb balance. So what do people think? Any suggested changes?

(Also is the formatting easy to read or should i change it?)

Jind_Singh
23-09-2009, 07:47
Ok then lets have a look! Like yourself I am a longtime fantasy player, I rank fairly high at the local club but I am not by any stretch a genius! My main army was deamons, then empire, then ogres, now Orcs - I have been using them for about 8-9 games so far


I've been posting on these lists a few times lately and thought i might put my list out there and see what people think. First, the list is not for 'ard boyz since there is no such thing here in Australia. Secondly, my gaming group is semi-competitive. By that i mean we all make lists to win but not to the extent that i usually see on boards like this. So bear that in mind.

I am newish to Orcs and Goblins. I've played something like 7-8 games with this list mostly against lizardmen and dark elves (though i have been tinkering with it for a while). It has done much better than expected. Given all the things i read on the internet i was expecting to get rolled a lot.. but this just hasn't happened.

Lords
Black Orc Warboss: Heavy Armour, Shaga's Screaming Sword, Bigged's Kickin' Boots, Enchanted Shield, Boar. 270Ffine, my guys is pretty much the same as yours except I swap the weapon for the one that gives +1 str, re-roll misses - I find reroll misses just too good to pass up!!
Orc Great Shaman: Lvl 4, Staff of Baduumm, Amulet of Protecyness, Dispel Scroll. 305mmm, you mention dark elves and lizzes as armies you play so I assume those guys bring some decent magic to the table?? If they do then I dont see what this guy does -I find your magic user lacks the offensive power to actually get any of his spells of. If you are finding that most of the time the opponent shuts you down in the magic phase....then dont bother with it! See my notes at the end

Heroes
Black Orc Big Boss: Heavy Armour, Battle Standard Bearer, Warboss Umm's Best Boss 'At, Nibbla's 'Itty Ring. 164personal choice, some take their BSB for combat uses, etc, I take mine as he has Gorks totem - 3 dispell die for me, eat that you buggers!
Goblin Big Boss: Light Armour, Shield, Backstabber's Blade, Gigantic Spider. 104I took mine with the wun hit wunda, that was wicked laugh! then I gave him the brimestone baubble so he could explode once he got killed, he did a great messy job of killing things a gobbo has no business killing! HE could charge a stegadon/hydra and really give it cause for some concern!
Night Goblin Big Boss: Light Armour, Shield, Martog's Best Basha, Mad Cap Mushrooms. 69 fair enough
Goblin Big Boss: Light Armour, Shield, Brimstone Bauble, Sneaky Skewerer, Wolf. 86again fair enough

Core
23 Orc Boyz: Shields, Full Command. 168yes!
19 Orc Big 'Uns: Shields, Full Command, Gork's Waaagh! Banner. 245NOOOOO
10 Wolf Riders: Musician+Standard, Spears. 148nooooo
10 Spider Riders: Musician+Standard. 148nooooooo
30 Night Goblins: Nets, Full Command, 3 Fanatics. 220

Special
20 Black Orcs: Shields, Full Command, Mork's Spirit Totem. 368
Rock Lobber: Bully. 75
2 Spear Chukkas: Bullies. 80
Orc Board Chariot: Additional Crew. 85

Rare
3 Stone Trolls. 180
Giant. 205
Goblin Doom Diver. 80
and everything else you got yes!!!
Power Dice: 6 + 1 Bound Spell.
Dispel Dice: 7.

I put the Warboss in the big 'Uns, the great shaman and Black Orc Battle Standard Bearer in the Boyz, the Night Goblin Big Boss in the night goblins, the Wolf Big Boss in the Wolf Riders, the Spider Big Boss in the Spider Riders.

The army is exactly 3000 points. I know some of the choices aren't standard and i can give explanations if you want. I find the list has superb balance. So what do people think? Any suggested changes?

(Also is the formatting easy to read or should i change it?)

Food for thought - overall I like the direction you have taken with you list, very nice overall buit heres some pointers.

Fast cav units - spiders & wolves. The opponent only need kill 2 models per unit to make them take a panic check. They are fast cav so no ranks. They have poor to medium armour saves, so no staying power. They dont hit that hard (well ok they get str 4 and spiders have posion but they are no way close to orc boyz or black orcs! So why not tink about dis - split them into 4 units of 5 with musicians and give all 4 bows. This is amazing! Enemy must still kill 2 models to cause panic but you have 4 units! 4 units to harrass flanks, misdirect enemy units, march block, and the best part is all 4 have a 360 degree line of sight for shooting bows. AND IN EVERY game they kill things with their bows - even though they hit on a 6 most of time. As they are fast cav they can flee, rally, and then move & shoot again - ideal units so break these guys up.
Your artillary is perfect - dont change it and always give an orc bully to all crews - because when a character joins them they now become unit str 5 and can claim/contest table quarters (sneaky, sneaky!)
Orc Big-Uns - the only thing going for an orc big un is +1ws and +1 str and magic bannor option. Well your black orcs get a bannor any and are tough, the BSB can AND should be given a magic bannor and sits with a unit of orc boyz, so that means your paying a lot of points for WS and str increase - but it is so expensive for what it does! The points are like more fast cav units/more orc boyz/gobbos - whatever you want!
Unit champs for orcs though are fine - MANY warseer fans say they are too much for what they do but hey - +1WS and +1 attack? Wicked! I love orc unit champs so keep um
I would also drop 1 fanatic and spend the 25pts elsewere.
Character selction - overall nice selection you took - I can see how they all add value to your attacking plans....but as I dont know about your magic phase side I will make assumption that you dont really pull too many spells off.
If this is the case you know what they say...'if you cant beat them, stuff them!"
Stick with goblin shaman (cheap) with staff of sneaky stealing, dispell scrolls on the other one, and Gorks totem - thats 8 dispell die! (2 lvl 1 dudes, 3 from totem, 2 from pool, and 1 from the other dudes pool). I find that I need at least 2-3 castors to ensure any upper hand with the waagh spells so it's either 3 tooled up castors or 2 bare bone guys.
Another thought for digestion is if I take 2 anti-magic chaps I like to park them in wolf charriots so they can sit behind my army, hit any flanking units, and then once they are no longer important I charge them with 18" charge doing D6+1 str 5 impact hits! Hurrah!
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Squig hoppers - no man should leave home without at least 5 of these buggers!
Savage orc boar boyz big'uns. Each orc has 2 str 5 attacks(frenzy) with 2 str 5 boar attacks, and use butchery bannor for 1 turn - thats an amazing 5 str 5 attacks with 5 models - so 25 str 5 attacks, WS 4 - that is scary stuff!
Fanatics - I consider 2 to be very effective per unit - grab 1 more cheap unit of night gobbo archers and drop 1-2 fanatics in there also
thats it for now - I cant think of anything else to add at this point so I bid thee farewell!

Jind_Singh
23-09-2009, 07:52
oh - everyone on these forums dont like balck orcs in big units - but having said that i take mine 20 big and love it - they die as easy as other orcs from shooting (well ok 4+ save v's 5+ but most things still shoot them dead).
I played my units 20 big and they do great - anything less and they become to easy to whittle away to the point that they do jack

Axis
23-09-2009, 08:57
Got to run, will probably reply to these idea tomorrow. Once i have thought about them a bit. Thanks for the response though!

Axis
24-09-2009, 06:18
a few things.

On the Big 'Uns. I find the upgrade to be quite good. The increase to WS4 is a good thing, you hit rubbish more and some mid-range stuff will hit you less. Also, S4 base makes them worthwhile in subsequent round of combat. S5 means you are wounding elves on 2 and makes dealing with knights/heavily armoured stuff reasonable.

However, i really like being able to give them a magic banner. The Waaagh! banner gives that unit almost cav movement for one turn per game. You can call a waaagh and then charge and you can quite easily get the jump on anything with M7 or below (especially since enemy cav rarely park themselves exactly 14 inches away!)

I have seriously considered the fast cav in units of 5. I do like units of 10+character. It makes the units quite irritating. I found that if you take small units then they can't target archers/xbowmen/handgunners because they lose too many models to the stand and shoot reaction. Furthermore the bigger units of these can actually win a few combats. A secondary, minor, bonus is that they have higher unit strength so dont get pwnt by fear elves often.

However, i take your point about psychology and animosity. Units of 5 are less vulnerable than units of 10. I think i will try it out and see which i prefer.

I originally took the BSB with the spirit totem and the banner of butchery on the black orcs. However, i found the black orcs to be slightly underwhelming. So i put the spirit totem on them. This means that they often get targetted by enemy shooting/magic which is what i want since they are the most resilient models in the entire army!

Making the black orc bsb more resilient with a ward save and the 'itty ring is something i have not tried yet and is a change i only just made. It should be good though.

In regards to magic. The lizards army i played took a slaan (with free power dice per spell) and a lvl 2 skink on engine (with the extra spell magic item). The dark elves had a lvl 4 and a lvl 2. So they are more magic medium than heavy. I find i often wear some of the magic onslaught and i dispel key spells. I also take an aggressive approach to hunt down wizards.
I find my wizard doesn't do a great deal but he does have +1 to cast so sometimes he can push spells through. I like the lvl 4 caster because if you do kill 1-2 of the enemy casters, it really does give you the ability to dominate the magic phase. Also he adds 2 dispel dice for only 1 character choice.



The reason i don't take hoppers is that they can't do what i like to do with skirmishers. Which is irritation. Animosity+random movement makes it hard. And they can only move in straight lines which is really annoying. I just have trouble seeing what they are useful against.

I also dont like those savage orc boar big uns because they are frenzied. This and animosity makes them very unreliable. Secondly they are very squishy. Their defense is 4+/6+ saves which is nothing special. And with only 5 of them they lose a lot of their damage potential per casualty.

Jind_Singh
24-09-2009, 08:56
I see were you come from, and honestly the gaming environment makes it difficult to judge what is useful and what is not.
On squig hoppers - the buggers can squabble, and they move random - last game I rolled 3 1's for movement! 3 1's!
But they do get into combat, being skirmishers means its harder to bring them down with shooting, so most people ignore them - but 2 WS 4, str 5 attacks? What?! They chomp, chomp and then still chomp. On top of that they are immune to pscyh so relaible dudes.
I have played both the 10 strong units of fast cav and 6 strong - and I guess the reason I dont care which way is due to fact each list has at least 4-6 units of them - so I pull of enough shots with my bows.
They are for sure vunerable but I find extra bait units more than makes up for this.
Boar boyz - the frenzy can be ugly if your baited but I protect mine until the time comes to unleash hell. But they are expensive and a few shots sees them dead - and unable to do what they do. Even more sucky is if they flee for any reason losing their frenzy
Big-uns...we will have to agree to disagree - I take all your points as valid, when I 1st started playing the orcs I took them - always! But now I prefer more units on the field so I rahter take 2 big units of boyz as opposed to 2.
But either way the main thing is your orcs N gobbos - the best army, by far, to be using!
Good luck!