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View Full Version : All your ogre eggs in one big basket!



Cpt. Drill
16-01-2006, 14:47
Would it ever be worth having a unit of ogres that qualify for the +3 rank bonus? Like a unit of 20 bulls.....?

I was thinking about this after ranking up all of my ogres and having them in a block of 16 and a block of 20 look pretty bad ass!

Would they be worth it or just to much of a liability...

...I see it as they would either not see a fight.. or get charged in the flank buy hevay cav then flee..... :confused:

Crube
16-01-2006, 15:12
But the look on your opponent's face if they did manage to see combat would be priceless...

They would look very impressive...

in reality though, I'd be inclined to say too much of a liability....

Sylass
16-01-2006, 16:02
The look of a unit like that might be impressive, but anyone who knows how to play WH would do his best to either avoid or trap them.

During a tournament I've seen someone playing an O&G army that had a single unit of 12 Trolls once...I doubt they ever saw combat. :)

Venomizer
16-01-2006, 16:14
Although said ogre unit would look very impressive, it would just be liability

Lardidar
16-01-2006, 16:29
If you have the models then give it a go and see what happens.

It would be great to see.

Cpt. Drill
16-01-2006, 17:17
*sigh* yeah I thought as much.... well hopefully I will try a unit of 16... they would be cool...... maybe

MadJackMcJack
16-01-2006, 17:29
Nothing compared to my plan to take a night gobbo horde, and make all the gobbos into only 2 units.

Cpt. Drill
16-01-2006, 17:31
We should meet up and play massive unit-hammer..... it will be awesome... right!

oma
16-01-2006, 19:00
if a heavy cavl unit flanked a 16 unit strong irongut unit you would have enough attacks back at them at least :P

Mad Doc Grotsnik
16-01-2006, 19:53
Well, on the bright side, anyone who failed their Fear test whilst being charged would steg it automatically (you WOULD outnumber!)

And I have a sneaking suspicion that large Ogre blocks would work a *lot* better than people might think. Consider a Cavalry flank charge. Sure, you lose your Rank bonus, but then, you still have Outnumber, and Standard. Assuming your assailant has no ranks, and just a Standard, combat is drawn already. You then weather his attacks (probably fairly well) then throw back several S4 attacks. Chances are your going to win it!

Go on...don't be soft! Give it a bash! And tell us how it went.

skavenguy13
17-01-2006, 00:24
Actually, if YOU play it carefully, it could be quite a good unit. But not enough to get their points back.

Put units of gnoblars on the flanks, and 3 bulls behind each gnoblar unit. Hold from charges with gnoblars. If enemy pursues in the big unit, you can counter-charge with your 3 bulls, have outnumber & kills and fear. Maybe with something small in front, but gnoblars are just too slow.

Lamont
17-01-2006, 01:38
wouldn't it be a great target for warmachines?

sulla
17-01-2006, 04:19
wouldn't it be a great target for warmachines?

As opposed to small units which are a great target for everybody...

I don't know if going after rank bonus is that important... I would be looking for autobreak numbers and maybe one rank...Possibly 8-10 ogres in 2 and a half ranks?

Stouty
17-01-2006, 17:34
Isn't the idea that the gnoblars are there to provide a very cheap 3 ranks (40pts sounds reasonable, 80 for a descent guarantee)?

NakedFisherman
17-01-2006, 17:42
They don't need to get their point back if they don't die.

I'd thought about this before, and the best course of action would just be to take objectives and ignore the unit. It's ridiculously hard to beat in combat, especially when you factor in some of the unit-enhacing items and names available to Ogres.

Gnoblars are cheap ranks until the enemy directs attacks at them and you realize you're losing Ogre attacks because of them.

oma
17-01-2006, 17:44
another thing to think about is the nice S7 they get on bull charge, byebye chariots!

GAWD
18-01-2006, 16:08
I've been mulling over WAAC Ogre lists, which many think are impossible to make. I think the best WAAC list would have to include a huge Iron Gut unit w/character yumminess that comes in at about 1000-1300 pts (maybe more). I can't imagine much of anything capable of dealing w/12 IGs, a nasty tyrant, a butcher, and maybe a BSB. Flanking, w/typical cav units, would be virtually meaningless b/c you'd simply get the beatdown w/great weapons, and anything in front of the unit is toast (remember ... you don't have to run it fully ranked; you can go 6 or even 7 models wide--ouch!). To compliment this unit, you can add a couple units of naked bulls and gnoblars, AND 2 units of rhinox riders to force the issue.

In 2250, you can concievably get the BIG UNIT, 2 units of naked bulls, 2 units of gnoblars, and 2 units of Rhinox. I think this can bring the pain.

MadJackMcJack
18-01-2006, 16:39
2 units of naked bulls

Do they cause terror?

GAWD
19-01-2006, 01:00
Do they cause terror?

That would make sense OR maybe Ogres are a tad inadaquate in that department :p

speedygogo
22-01-2006, 11:02
All ogres are not immune to panic and only cause fear unless you have a tyrant with demon killer scars in the unit. One unbreakable unit ties the whole monstrosity up then a flank charge causes a panic test and negates ranks. Five orges could attack on the charge due to their frontage size. They tyrant could cause up to 6 wounds, three iron guts could cause 9 more and the champion would add 4 of his own. 5 impact hits could come from a bull charge which makes a grand total of 24 possible wounds. So a typical unit of 3 swarm or 25 man unbreakable unit sets up a game winning counter-charge. This is if things go perfectly for the ogre unit and all atks hit and wound. An even simpler way to deal with this is to shoot at one of the small units next to the big one and force panic tests that would make the big waste 'o points unit run off the board.

I play ogres alot and their leadership and lack of armor is their major disadvantage. Four ogres is the best size IMO bcause it is large enough to field multiple units that can still pack a punch after being shot at.

GAWD
23-01-2006, 01:42
Oh ye of little faith.

One thing has become blatantly clear in the 1st year of the Ogres' existence in the game: they are very difficult to win with consistently in a competitive environment using the conventional tactics we commonly see in the game (like MSU).

I'm becoming more and more convinced that the Ogres will work best as huge ranked units.

Consider a list w/3 main Ogre units: 1 Bulls, 1 IGuts, 1 Rhinox. Each of these units could be made more or less immune to magic and panic. The Rhinox get the Runemaw. Then the IGuts get the Ragbanner & 3 Thiefstones (that's 3 dice for panic tests & MR 3). Then the Bulls get a Jade Lion and Greatskull (reroll psychology & miscasts on double 2 & 3). Find a little space for some Laurels or a BSB and all of a sudden you've got some protection for break tests. Now to run those items, you'd need a combo of butchers & bruisers, but you'll still have space for a nasty tyrant. Rear & Flank support can be provided by assorted leadbelchers, gnobbies, and maneaters.

What does this do? Well, the opponent will more than likely be forced to kill one of the baskets to win the game. This will be difficult to do from panic or magic. And at 12" & 14" movement, the Ogres will eventually hit something. If the enemy hits the Ogres and negates ranks, like w/a little cav. unit, big deal. Right now most of us run Ogres w/essentially no rank bonuses anyway, and Ogres, provided they stick around will eventually grind up ranked troopers anyway.

I'll post a list for this later.

shadowprince
23-01-2006, 03:36
if I went 16 strong give em great weopons, that should make calvary think twice.

sulla
23-01-2006, 04:59
if I went 16 strong give em great weopons, that should make calvary think twice.

But make artillerymasters rub their hands together in glee.

I still think 2 units of 8 are better than one of 16. US 24 each plus one rank as opposed to US 10000000000 and 3 ranks but suffering from 'chosen knights of Khorne syndrome' *


*Despite being the toughest unit in the game, they are forever consigned to chasing dogs into forests.

GAWD
23-01-2006, 20:09
Ogre's aren't frenzied, so they won't go chasing fools around the field.

2 units of 8 doesn't begin to do what this list will be best at--point denial. Units of 8 are far easier to whittle down and kill than 12-16 Ogres, and those smaller units of 8 will eventually add up to an enemy win.

Here's the list promised: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22920

sulla
25-01-2006, 08:29
Ogre's aren't frenzied, so they won't go chasing fools around the field.

2 units of 8 doesn't begin to do what this list will be best at--point denial. Units of 8 are far easier to whittle down and kill than 12-16 Ogres, and those smaller units of 8 will eventually add up to an enemy win.

Here's the list promised: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22920

Frenzied or not it doesn't matter a bit. If you have all your points wrapped up in one huge unit, all a player has to do is line up some cheap distraction like dogs or fast cav at an angle in front of them and you will be forced to chase them all game because they are blocking your advance/wheel/march.

I doubt there would be many players who don't have the tactical nouse to isolate one enemy super-unit and effectively take it out of the game. (I bet you could do it and i don't even know you :cool:. )

Besides, I face a lot of cannons (playing a pair of Manticores wil do that :evilgrin: ) and the though of losing 4 ogres to each shot is a scary thought- cannons rarely miss around here... Better to split your resources and force harder choices on the opposition IMO.

Sulla