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101st Vostroyan
23-09-2009, 23:43
I have a start to a Lizardmen army that I received from a friend, and was going to add a battalion box to it.

He had unfortunately only 1 unit of 16 saurus, so with the addition of the 20 that come with the battalion, I would have 36.

I was going to have 1 unit w/ spears and 1 w/ hand weapons.(2 blocks of 18)

OR

3 blocks of 12 w/ 2 hand weapon units and 1 spear.

Which is a more effective combination, when combined with 15 temple guard, 39 skinks, 15 cold ones, and a stegadon?

zerachiel
23-09-2009, 23:48
I'd say 2 blocks of 18 with Spears. Spears can benefit from the extra Rank, and have 6 wounds before they start losing Attacks.

With hand weapon blocks, I'd go with 12, as Saurus aren't cheap.

Haven't experimented with 12-strong Spears.

Vsurma
24-09-2009, 00:01
2*18 spears

101st Vostroyan
24-09-2009, 00:47
THe problem is that I already have built hw saurus that I received that way. I bet I could easily change them as I have the parts...

Tenken
24-09-2009, 00:58
Put the guys with spears up front point to them at the start of the game and say "theyre using spears, those guys in the back are just to lazy to have theirs out.":p

ChaosCajun
24-09-2009, 01:01
Or mix them in both ranks and declare all have spears.

zeekill
24-09-2009, 01:07
Always use spears. Just always. For 1 pt a model you get 12 extra attacks in combat!

N810
24-09-2009, 01:43
units of 18 or 15 with spears...
a unit of hand weapons is probably ok...

ps. you can build more cheep by only buying saurus bodies (bits). ;)

Necromancy Black
24-09-2009, 04:20
Mix the models, don't even try them without spears and play them 6 wide.

Having played both with and without spears, and also both 5 and 6 wide, I can tell you there is no competition. Spears are just so much better then without and 6 wide is just so much better then 5 wide.

zerachiel
24-09-2009, 04:21
THe problem is that I already have built hw saurus that I received that way. I bet I could easily change them as I have the parts...

Go and bum some spears from your local WoC player. :p All WoC players love Marauder Horsemen, and none give them throwing spears (total fact, yep), so chances are they have a few lying around. Strap them to your Saurus's backs and voila.

101st Vostroyan
24-09-2009, 04:26
Problem solved. I had spear bits for the lizards so cut off the old weapons and replaced the with spears. I will have 2 18 man unit of spears 6 wide...


EXELLENT... Thanks all

CaptBenedict
24-09-2009, 04:53
I'm probably gonna be taking a lot of flack for this, but here's how I've been using my Saurus.

30x Saurus
* Spears
* Full Command
* Additional Scar Veteran
* Battle Standard
* Sword of Battle
* Maiming Shield
* Cold One
** Units placed in a 6x5 formation with the Scar Vet at a corner, Champion at the centre.

Ok, that's 575 points so far... but what a Deathstar! On a normal day, it'll have a static Combat Resolution of 6 with a near unkillable Hero that dishes out 6x Str 5 attacks. If faced with a challenge where the Vet will most likely lose, just sacrifice the Saurus Champion and kill the rest of the enemy block with the Vet.

This build has worked very well for me and so far has taken out Hydras, Blood Knights, Khorne Knights, Empire Knights and a Treeman. :)

N810
24-09-2009, 05:14
Looks like a fun unit CaptBenedict. :)
Thats how people used to use them in 6th.
what do you run to protect your flanks ?

CaptBenedict
24-09-2009, 05:51
@ N810: Thank you, sir. You are right that they are a lot of fun, especially when everyone just tries SO hard to avoid them.

Protecting their flanks, as you mentioned, are vital. So this is what I do... The flank with the Scar Vet has a unit of 4x Kroxigors beside/behind the unit. And the other flank, well, I'll have 6 (yes, you read right) Salamanders.

Even if their flank does get charged at, there's still the Toughness 4, 4+ Armour, Outnumber, Standard + Battle Standard to get some much needed Combat Res. Even if they DO lose the combat, there's the Reroll on Cold Blooded before the counter attack comes in. So, they really are quite a hard nut to crack.

Leonathion
24-09-2009, 21:42
I love that build! Looks solid and rare, might try it for a game sometime! And the hero can be made a rely scenic piece in the unit to :) Alright, for you Vostroyan, I'd use 2*18 all with spears ;)

kramplarv
24-09-2009, 21:48
Mix the models, don't even try them without spears and play them 6 wide.

Having played both with and without spears, and also both 5 and 6 wide, I can tell you there is no competition. Spears are just so much better then without and 6 wide is just so much better then 5 wide.

ahh, this reminds me of the pre-lizardmen warseer warhammer gurus, and also a month or two after the book was released!!

"lol, saurus are teh suxxxz0r. GW SUCKS, they can't do anything right. SPEARS SUCKS: ITS A BAD WEAPON LOL!"

then... this post came up :D I so loooove old warseer-bashers. :)

(not that necromancy_black is one. his post jsut reminded me of this funny story!)

Necromancy Black
24-09-2009, 23:23
Man, before the new book that was basically the case. Wasn't worth the spear upgrade. Instead what you would always give them was the spawning for +1 AS. Now they basically have both for the same points before, AND get to fight with spears normally.

There is definitely a reason as to why people have changed their opinions (although I liked saurus in the old book as well)

Tenken
25-09-2009, 04:00
I'm probably gonna be taking a lot of flack for this, but here's how I've been using my Saurus.

30x Saurus
* Spears
* Full Command
* Additional Scar Veteran
* Battle Standard
* Sword of Battle
* Maiming Shield
* Cold One
** Units placed in a 6x5 formation with the Scar Vet at a corner, Champion at the centre.

Ok, that's 575 points so far... but what a Deathstar! On a normal day, it'll have a static Combat Resolution of 6 with a near unkillable Hero that dishes out 6x Str 5 attacks. If faced with a challenge where the Vet will most likely lose, just sacrifice the Saurus Champion and kill the rest of the enemy block with the Vet.

This build has worked very well for me and so far has taken out Hydras, Blood Knights, Khorne Knights, Empire Knights and a Treeman. :)

I like the looks of this. I might try this big block approach next game, maybe even 40 saurus. I'm a mad man!!!

I fielded 2 5x4 saurus units today and one did great. They managed to hold blackguards to the front and witch elves on the flank for 3 whole rounds, 3 whole rounds! And they gave those blackguards a solid beating, killing more than half. I think I'll try fielding a unit 6 wide next time. I was worried about getting everyone into melee, but after a few games it seems 6 wide would be able to get everyone into combat solidly most of the time.

zerachiel
25-09-2009, 06:42
I like the looks of this. I might try this big block approach next game, maybe even 40 saurus. I'm a mad man!!!

I fielded 2 5x4 saurus units today and one did great. They managed to hold blackguards to the front and witch elves on the flank for 3 whole rounds, 3 whole rounds! And they gave those blackguards a solid beating, killing more than half. I think I'll try fielding a unit 6 wide next time. I was worried about getting everyone into melee, but after a few games it seems 6 wide would be able to get everyone into combat solidly most of the time.

I'd suggest you lay off putting way too many Saurus in the Deathstar and instead opt for two mini-Deathstars. Against some armies there'll be no way they can crack them, but against others they can run you down in a turn. With a huge flank, a unit of 6 Nurgle Knights with the Banner of Rage (or Khorne, or Tzeentch/Slaanesh with the Banner, Nurgle is just most common) can charge in with 18 S5 attacks that hit on 3's and 12 S4 attacks that hit on 4's from their Horses. That translates to around 9 wounds, they take flank and have banner, also taking your ranks with them. That gives you 11 to 4 at best (banner, warbanner, bsb, outnumber), which means you Insane Courage or suffer the likely fate of being run down. Considering most flank protection discussed revolves around counter-charging and not actually standing in the way, you can suffer for it (and even if you stand in the way, your non-Deathstar unit suffers the likely scenario of being an Overrun stepping stone for the Knights, unless you have yet another unit holding their flank as well, etc.). A WoC army can easily field 2 such Knight units in 2000 (totaling to about 500-600 points for 2 units of 6), so just a word of warning that barring Unbreakable or Stubborn, relying on a Deathstar to hold from a flank charge is a big risk.

zeekill
25-09-2009, 20:01
I'm probably gonna be taking a lot of flack for this, but here's how I've been using my Saurus.

30x Saurus
* Spears
* Full Command
* Additional Scar Veteran
* Battle Standard
* Sword of Battle
* Maiming Shield
* Cold One
** Units placed in a 6x5 formation with the Scar Vet at a corner, Champion at the centre.

Ok, that's 575 points so far... but what a Deathstar! On a normal day, it'll have a static Combat Resolution of 6 with a near unkillable Hero that dishes out 6x Str 5 attacks. If faced with a challenge where the Vet will most likely lose, just sacrifice the Saurus Champion and kill the rest of the enemy block with the Vet.

This build has worked very well for me and so far has taken out Hydras, Blood Knights, Khorne Knights, Empire Knights and a Treeman. :)

It looks great, only that if it gets hit in the flank by some good calvary its pretty much done for. And how exactly did you take out blood knights? Whoever was playing them must've not been playing them right. Either way I will try this list out sometime, it looks very fun.

CaptBenedict
26-09-2009, 17:52
"It looks great, only that if it gets hit in the flank by some good calvary its pretty much done for. And how exactly did you take out blood knights? Whoever was playing them must've not been playing them right."

I totally agree that protecting the flanks will be a major priority when using this set up. I have had Dark Riders get to the flank but unfortunately for them, it was the flank that had the Scar Vet and he had a LOT of fun cutting them down.

Let's be honest though, if the flank of any unit is hit by either Chaos Knights or Blood Knights, unless the unit is Stubborn or Unbreakable, they're dead.

If I remember correctly, the Blood Knights were built as such:
5x Blood Knights
* Full Command
* Warbanner

They charged directly into the front of the wall of Saurus and a challenge was issued between the Scar Vet and the Kastellan. The Saurus Hero took a Wound but caused 3 in return. If memory serves me correct, the rest of the Blood Knights managed to drop 6 Saurus Warriors. On the fight back, the vampiric knights had to deal with 9 spear attacks (3 normal guys plus 1 Champion) and 1 Blood Knight failed his now modified to 3+ armour save; leaving only 3 Knights including the Standard Bearer and Musician.

Believe I had 10 CR to his 9 CR. One Knight crumbled leaving only the Standard Bearer and Musician remaining.

The next round of combat (on my Turn) saw the Scar Vet issuing a challenge with the Musician answering due to Martial Honour. Caused 2 Wounds on the undead guy while taking none in return. The Blood Knight Standard Bearer killed 2 more Saurus warriors dead and was then poked to death by spears.

In all fairness, the dice did roll favourably in the combat AND this Saurus unit costs 575 points over the Blood Knights' 350.

Bloodless
27-09-2009, 05:18
I'd say 2 blocks of 18 with Spears. Spears can benefit from the extra Rank, and have 6 wounds before they start losing Attacks.

I completely agree. Plus the extra rank of strength four attacks is nothing to laugh at.

Korhil-WLC
27-09-2009, 10:41
I use 1 unit of 18 with Spears and standard.

They usually aint nothing special but they get the job done