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View Full Version : I may have made a boo boo (codex discrepancies)



carldooley
24-09-2009, 16:11
on my earlier post here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221907), I mentioned that a MotF that ditches its servo harness for a conversion beamer still gets a Power Fist EQ from its servo arm. People have pointed out that in its Army List summary(P. 133) it doesn't have a servo-arm, just the servo-harness.

However, in the Forces section (P. 70) it clearly says that the MotF has both a servo-harness and a servo-arm. Now, I know that this is hardly the first time that this has happened (something not appearing in one section but appearing in another), but I am hazy on how to resolve it. Am I supposed to ignore one or the other, or does that only happen when there are discrepancies between the army list and the summary?

EndlessBug
24-09-2009, 16:22
I'd trust the forces main section over the army list summary. A summary is just that and will be more prone to mistakes.

Dangersaurus
24-09-2009, 17:55
As said there, it appears to be listed in the forces section because you can't have one without the other and the rules for both need to be referenced.

Checking techmarines shows that servo-harnesses are an upgrade to servo-arms, not an individual piece of kit, so it makes sense to me that if you lose it if you trade it for the conversion beamer...


This should be in the rules section. I imagine you'll get a finer answer on why there.

ashc
24-09-2009, 18:20
It's listed in his rules so that the rules for servo-harnesses are complete. Servo-arms are NOT listed in his equipment (whereas servo-harness is). There is absolutely no precedent in the codex that suggests he can 'downgrade' to a servo-arm.

The only way he loses the Servo-harness is when he swaps out the whole thing for a Conversion beamer. (That DOESN'T leave him with a servo-arm either!)

grissom2006
24-09-2009, 18:23
Got to love people who think that they can remove equipment from a unit or character thats basic to them.

Dangersaurus
24-09-2009, 20:45
Then let's look at the logic of it grissom. A servo-harness ADDS one arm to a servo-arm. If you have both (that is, the harness is not just an upgrade to the arm), you have three extra power fist attacks every round. Do you believe that a vanilla MoF has three power fist attacks in addition to his normal attacks?

grissom2006
24-09-2009, 21:09
Then let's look at the logic of it grissom. A servo-harness ADDS one arm to a servo-arm. If you have both (that is, the harness is not just an upgrade to the arm), you have three extra power fist attacks every round. Do you believe that a vanilla MoF has three power fist attacks in addition to his normal attacks?

Said no such thing what i'm on about if you read closely enough is some people actually think that they can remove items from a model that it comes equiped with. I didn't say a Techmarines gets a single word of what you said. What my reference is to i know people who will and do claim to be able to strip say a Tactical Marine of his Bolt Pistol and his Grenades and in the process claim they are cheaper due to it. Care to try again at putting words into my mouth that i didn't say????

carldooley
24-09-2009, 21:16
Got to love people who think that they can remove equipment from a unit or character thats basic to them.

actually, it is a well established fact called upgrading. are you going to claim that your terminator captain still has his power armor? For that matter, it specifically says that you can remove the servo-harness for a conversion beamer, and as Dangersaurus said; the servo harness adds one servo arm to the existing armament. if you want us to read it as he suggested, that the harness allows us 3 PF-EQ attacks, then by all means - MORE POWER!!!

grissom2006
24-09-2009, 21:27
I'm not saying the stuff gets taken of due to a upgrade if you actually bothered reading the post above yours. You'd see a clear example of what i meant by my comment. That being the fact a basic character or unit having item taken off them that they come with. So for another example a lets take a Marine Captain and remove his Iron Halo and not upgrade him in any manner. Now it's a 100% illegal games wise and what i've been getting at is you just have to love a persons imagination that thinks they can do it.

Dangersaurus
24-09-2009, 21:44
Sorry grissom, guess I read what you wrote and not what you meant.

Durath
24-09-2009, 21:45
This post belongs in the rules section I think.

The Force Section would take precedence in my mind.

carldooley
24-09-2009, 21:46
I'm not saying the stuff gets taken of due to a upgrade if you actually bothered reading the post above yours. You'd see a clear example of what i meant by my comment. That being the fact a basic character or unit having item taken off them that they come with. So for another example a lets take a Marine Captain and remove his Iron Halo and not upgrade him in any manner. Now it's a 100% illegal games wise and what i've been getting at is you just have to love a persons imagination that thinks they can do it.

actually, by both examples we are in full agreement. generally, if I want an inexpensive and game changing HQ, I'd take a mystical DH inq Lord with Psychic Hood - 83 pts. fully legal too. by your vehemence I would imagine that you play tyranids or tau, or a simiilar army where your commander starts off as an amorphous blob that you add to.

we ARE in full agreement actually - trying to remove standard wargear to reduce its price should be discouraged wherever it is found. If a player doesn't have the points available, don't use the model or reshuffle the army list.

BUT, sorry, Dangersaurus is correct - the servo harness says that it adds an ADDITIONAL servo-arm on P. 71, and as such, if you remove the MotF's servo harness for a conversion beamer - he still has a single servo arm.

and if you're going to say that the servo-harness's description affects techmarines only, I'd refer you to the description of what a Master of the Forge is.

**edit** ninjad

grissom2006
24-09-2009, 21:47
I don't think it needs to be in the rules it's simply a case that the entry wasn't read properly and with GW's habit of writing vaguely as they do just needs a little common sense and thought in it's reading.


No worries Dangersaurus

carldooley
24-09-2009, 21:56
I don't thing it needs to be in the rules it's simply a case that the entry wasn't read properly and with GW's habit of writing vaguely as they do just needs a little common sense and thought in it's reading.

if they were to let more players beta-test the codecii prior to publishing, this would be seriously curtailed.:angel:

Dangersaurus
24-09-2009, 21:57
BUT, sorry, Dangersaurus is correct - the servo harness says that it adds an ADDITIONAL servo-arm on P. 71, and as such, if you remove the MotF's servo harness for a conversion beamer - he still has a single servo arm.

Err, I was being facetious. I don't believe that's true at all.

grissom2006
24-09-2009, 22:00
BUT, sorry, Dangersaurus is correct - the servo harness says that it adds an ADDITIONAL servo-arm on P. 71, and as such, if you remove the MotF's servo harness for a conversion beamer - he still has a single servo arm.

and if you're going to say that the servo-harness's description affects techmarines only, I'd refer you to the description of what a Master of the Forge is.

**edit** ninjad

Did you actually bother reading my second post or not as if you did you'd see i stated ' I didn't say a Techmarines gets a single word of what you said.' This means i never claimed that he gets 3 attack etc.. or is your comprehension that bad???