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Pvt. Ratt
25-09-2009, 03:11
Ok I need to know if a Battle Sister may have 'relations' with a man/woman. I could find nothing on the subject in Lexicanum and I need some answers quickly. This is imperative to a fiction piece I'm writing and the quicker I get responses the sooner I can correct mistakes or get the next chapter written.

Thanks in advance
-J.

I just realized that I misspelled the title of this thread... oops.

Argastes
25-09-2009, 03:48
What do you mean, "may"? Are they allowed to? Are they physically capable? If it's the latter, what exactly constitutes "relations"? Intercourse? Less than that?

I have to warn you up front, you are going to get practically zero hard info on this topic, because 40K's target audience includes 12-year-old kids and thus the company is pretty careful to make sure that their background material doesn't get too explicit about sexual topics. I hope you are prepared for the multiple pages of rampant, baseless speculation that your question will inevitably ignite, though (and for the painfully awkward spectacle of lots of 40K-playing forums posters trying to talk about sex).

EDIT: Just to contribute my own baseless speculation: To the best of my knowledge, SOBs are recruited from the Schola Progenium, the state-run boarding schools for the orphaned children of Imperial officials and servants, and aren't subjected to any sort of biotechnological augmentation in the way that Marines are. They are normal humans from a biological standpoint. So yes, they are probably physically capable of it. But the vows of their orders probably strictly prohibit sexual activity, with the penalties for violations being quite severe.

Charax
25-09-2009, 04:19
"Part of the puritan lifestyle of the Sisterhood is isolation, and it is generally only the Canoness and her most experienced Sister Superiors who will have dealings with outsiders - even Sisters of another Order."

Obviously the rules need to be a little more lax in the case of Orders Hospitalier and Famulous, but you asked about the Sisters of Battle which refers specifically to the Orders Militant.

Orkeosaurus
25-09-2009, 04:23
I'm guessing it varies between orders.

They're obviously not going to be promiscuous, simply on account of having a hugely strict regimen of prayer and training.

They obviously hold purity in high regard, but I think with the Imperium "purity" has more to do with the avoidance of chaos corruption/mutation/association with aliens than chastity.

SabrX
25-09-2009, 04:45
I've read Faith & Fire and Codex: Sisters of Battle.

To the best of my knowledge, its possible to man/woman relation in non-militant orders, but in militant order, such relationships are less probable due to the their, "utterly dedicated to one task or discipline and brook no distraction from their studies" (page 35 of Codex: Battle of Sisters).

Originating from the Daughters of the Emperor, Sisters of Battle perfect their "martial skills" and "purify their minds and dedicate themselves to the Emperor". They live a puritan life isolated from the rest of the World.

There's very little feminine about militant Sisters of Battle.

HOWEVER!

When Goge Vandire still had control over the Brides of the Emperor (changed title from 'Daughters' to 'Brides'), they would entertain him including, "singing, dancing, and more exotic skills."

Of course the current Sisters of Battles are much different to how they were in the age of Apostasy. For one thing, they didn't have an insane tyrannical madman ordering them around. Any Battle Sister who fails to uphold the rigorous Sisterhood codes are banished and becomes a Repentia.

Logarithm Udgaur
25-09-2009, 04:46
But the vows of their orders probably strictly prohibit sexual activity, with the penalties for violations being quite severe.

Sisters take no vows of celibacy. It is mentioned that many have the perception that they do in the Commissar Cain books.

Sekhmet
25-09-2009, 06:23
I have to warn you up front, you are going to get practically zero hard info on this topic, because 40K's target audience includes 12-year-old kids and thus the company is pretty careful to make sure that their background material doesn't get too explicit about sexual topics. I hope you are prepared for the multiple pages of rampant, baseless speculation that your question will inevitably ignite, though (and for the painfully awkward spectacle of lots of 40K-playing forums posters trying to talk about sex).

Ever read the inquisition war series?

Charax
25-09-2009, 06:38
Ever read the inquisition war series?

Because GW's target audience can't possibly have changed in the decade and a half since those books were first published?

Sekhmet
25-09-2009, 06:39
Because GW's target audience can't possibly have changed in the decade and a half since those books were first published?

unpossible

murrytheskull
25-09-2009, 06:45
In one of the Caiphas Cain books (maybe duty calls? someone will correct me if i'm wrong) it is heavily implied that one of the sisters is having a relationship with a man.

As Logarithm Udgaur points out, Cain states that most people in the 40k universe are under the false assumption that the sisters take vows of celibacy.

ntin
25-09-2009, 08:14
Marriage or otherwise committed relationships is a gray area within the Warhammer 40,000 universe. At one time Space Marines had families but it was phased out in favor of sterile super soldiers. In my opinion this sort of area of fluff adds too much of a human element to the game when the main theme promotes dehumanization of all sentient races. An Ork and an Eldar finding love on the battle field does not work with the greater narrative.

I want to say at one time there was fluff stating the Order Famulous would sometimes use Sisters to arrange political marriages to strength ties with powerful families and the Ecclesiarchy. Outside of that I cannot recall ever reading about any member of the Adepta Sororitas entering into a personal relationship for their own wellbeing. In the dark future of the year 40,000 there is no downtime on Friday night.

It is interesting for the effort done to remove parallels to real religion the Adepta Sororitas has such a strong Catholic Nun and Abrahamic religious feel. Like their real life counterparts the Brides of Christ, the Brides of the Emperor are devoted to the savior of mankind.

There exists an underlining theme of lesbianism and domination fetish within the Sisters of Battle with the black power armor with high heels and corsets. Not to mention units of naked woman being led by a woman called “Mistress” with a whip. That however is another discussion within itself. Needless to say for the target audience and demographic of the game, an all female army needs inappropriate amounts of sex appeal to sell.

grissom2006
25-09-2009, 08:18
Well as seen as the SOB reverted back to seeing themselves as the Brides of the Emperor highly unlikely they have a relationship with males. In much the same way a Nuns are classed as being married to God.

NightrawenII
25-09-2009, 08:30
As mentioned above, the SoB dont take vows of celibacy. But their rigid discipline, dedication to the Emperor and state of mind will be great obstruction in the way of creating any relationship with ousider of Order.

BTW, speak to yourself. Will you have a relationship with woman, whose day-rutine is praying and arms-traning and whose duty is purging the heretics and killing the alien?:angel:

Condottiere
25-09-2009, 08:58
Is she hot?

ryng_sting
25-09-2009, 09:01
Possible, but improbable. More likely you'd hear one singing the hills are alive with the sound of boltguns.

Onisuzume
25-09-2009, 09:53
Well, you never know what they do behind those closed convent doors. ;)
Still, as noted above, GW has no real interrest to uncover much of that aspect of the fluff. After all:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh158/vividwings/Warhammer%20motivational%20Posters/Chibi.jpg

bosstroll
25-09-2009, 12:06
BTW, speak to yourself. Will you have a relationship with woman, whose day-rutine is praying and arms-traning and whose duty is purging the heretics and killing the alien?:angel:


To put it in Ciaphas Cain's words:"I only have room for one lethally dangerous woman in my life" :)

BaronDG
25-09-2009, 15:17
Sandy Mitchell makes it clear from the beginning of the series that he is not religous and he certainly doesn’t understand a religous mind-set. And that is a shame because one of the major charms of the 40k universe is the medieval piety. Ciaphas, complaining about the ”emperor-botherers” is an anachronism. Maybe that’s why he is so popular with many; it is easy for modern day people to identify with him.

Anyway, on to the point. In his previous book he used the sisters to show how blind fanaticism is very dangerous and the pious sisters nearly destroyed the world. While a bit obvious, coming from him, it is still a decent plot-device: what happens when the best are corrupted.

However, he strikes a far more insidious blow to the sisters when he claims they are not celibate. Many orders of nuns recieve a ring engraved with "Ego te sponsabo", I will marry thee. Is it not natural that sisters of battle have something similar? Would they have lovers on the side if they are married to the Emperor?

The traditional rules for religious life are: obedience, stability and fidelity. In fidelity (to the monastic way of life), both poverty and celibacy are included.
Stability means you stay inside your monastery for the rest of your life. It is still possible to go to different places to, for example, start a new monastery or, in the case of knights templar or sisters of battle, conduct a war. All these vows are central to being a sister, being a nun.

Are sisters permitted to ignore all these vows? Can they disobey their superiors? Can they go to nightclubs during weekends? Take a few weeks off at a pleasure planet? No? Then, how in the world could we believe they are allowed to have carnal relations?

I enjoy Ciaphas Cain sometimes, but I wouldn't base any conceptions of the 40k universe from it.

Logarithm Udgaur
25-09-2009, 15:44
I enjoy Ciaphas Cain sometimes, but I wouldn't base any conceptions of the 40k universe from it.
You would base them on your anachronistic (WotD points!) world-view instead? I seem to remember something similar (i.e. no celibacy vows) being mentioned in Faith and Fire also.

Orkeosaurus
25-09-2009, 15:48
Well, as Charax said, they rarely do leave their convent. Which (presumably) makes it a non-issue most of the time.

Also, I would guess that sex as a corrupting influence has been tossed to the wayside with daemon worship, mutation, and sympathy for aliens possible.

BaronDG
25-09-2009, 16:11
(WotD points!)

What is this?
Please explain?

:)

Logarithm Udgaur
25-09-2009, 17:09
WotD=Word of the Day.

Anachronistic is the kind of word I see on Word of the Day calendars more often than in actual usage.

Pvt. Ratt
25-09-2009, 19:39
Well, you never know what they do behind those closed convent doors. ;)
Still, as noted above, GW has no real interrest to uncover much of that aspect of the fluff. After all:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh158/vividwings/Warhammer%20motivational%20Posters/Chibi.jpg

I laughed so hard I shot beer out of my nose when I read that.

Alright.

First off, thank you all for the extreme feed back, it gave me much to ponder over.

Since the story I am writing is already quite deviant from your regular SoB (not to the point of being irritating, but it ain't your usual flamer wielding Battle Sister story) I think I may keep it in the same vein that it has been going. Honestly, I don't know if any form of 'relationship' or 'intimacy' will actually occur. I wasn't expecting it to drag it self out as long as it has.

Thanks for the feed back,
-Pvt. Ratt (J.)

spetswalshe
25-09-2009, 23:07
I think celibacy fits the SoB theme rather nicely. One could imagine a kind of ritual hysterectomy carried out as a rejection of the main female 'career' in the Imperium - a baby factory - in favour of their new one. No one wants the hassle of menstruation when you're wearing Power Armour. Plus, if they can't resist the advances of the stableboy, they're probably not cut out for an austere life spent rejecting Slaanesh and all his enchanting daemonboys.