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Da Crusha
25-09-2009, 05:15
if you charge with a unit of skeletons lead by a vampire and say the enemy units turns out to be 9" away, since the vampire has a sufficient charge move to make the distance is he now forced to engage the enemy alone or can he elect to have a failed charge to stay with the skellies?

Zeuy
25-09-2009, 05:25
He MUST to stay with the unit.

SitNoir
25-09-2009, 05:27
He's stuck in the unit.

A unit can only move as fast as it's slowest member, so unless you 'detach' him, he can only charge at the skeleton's charge range.

=D

IrishDelinquent
25-09-2009, 06:45
The unit always moves at it's slowest speed, so the Vampire fails as well.

Damn, ninja'd

Atrahasis
25-09-2009, 07:29
Also, a failed charge is "compulsory movement" - movement in a fixed direction at a fixed rate, so characters cannot join or leave the unit.

pililuk
25-09-2009, 07:53
So what happens if that vamp had frenzy

Atrahasis
25-09-2009, 07:54
No different - he could not declare a frenzied charged because his unit had already declared a charge.

Gav2k
25-09-2009, 08:08
No different - he could not declare a frenzied charged because his unit had already declared a charge.

Assuming the Vampire had declared the frenzied charge before the unit had declared a charge?

Da Crusha
25-09-2009, 09:00
thanks for all the quick replies!!!

Milgram
25-09-2009, 09:11
Assuming the Vampire had declared the frenzied charge before the unit had declared a charge?

frenzied charges are declared after all other charges. but this leads to a prolonged discussion. it is the same as if you have a goblin on wolf in a unit of savage orcs. to hinder the savage orcs from charging, the goblin on wolf declares a charge on an enemy unit within 18".

Atrahasis
25-09-2009, 10:27
There is no (valid) discussion - a character is bound by the charges his unit declares, and not vice versa, so the Wolf Rider can declare a charge, but as soon as the Savage Orcs are found to be in range, they declare and cancel his declaration.

If it is obvious that the Savage Orcs will declare, then I'd go so far as to say that the Wolf cannot declare, as he knows he cannot complete the charge, and declaring obviously incompletable charges is illegal.

Gav2k
25-09-2009, 10:44
So couldnt the Vampire's unit just... not declare a charge? So that unit does nothing...Then when it's time to declare frenzied charges, the Vampire does so... Do frenzied charges apply to the Vampire's Unit or not?

Atrahasis
25-09-2009, 10:49
If the unit isn't frenzied, then it doesn't have to charge.

TheDarkDaff
25-09-2009, 12:15
If the unit isn't frenzied, then it doesn't have to charge.

More completely for Gav2k's question. A frenzied character will charge out of a non-frenzied unit if he is in charge range and the unit has not declared a charge. You don't get to have the unit tag along.

In short
-The unit can't charge because of a character's frenzy
-The character may be forced to charge out of a unit due to frenzy
-The character will be carried along by the unit if they declare a charge
-Character's in a unit can not charge out if the unit also charges

Milgram
25-09-2009, 13:46
There is no (valid) discussion

I'd like to object. but no need to have that discussion again. :)

Necromancy Black
25-09-2009, 23:32
A couple FAQ's made this quite clear:

Frenzied units must wait until all non-Frenzied units have declared chargers before they measure to see if anything is in range. They can't do this if they are somehow already part of a charge (in this case the character's unit has declared a charge)

If a unit with a Frenzied character does not declare a charge, then that character must still measure to see if anything is in range to charge. If there is, the character must leave the unit and charge by itself.