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ftayl5
26-09-2009, 01:31
Before the new lizardmen rules i would always take kroxigors, but now with strength four, are they still worth taking?

I dont think they are, so they can move faster, Movement six is good, but in their fluff it says they were used as the workhorses and packmules while building temples, and now theyre the same strength as a saurus. I use to use them to blow up chariots or just charge small, well armed units

Who agrees with me? If not, please try and show me how they can still be useful

P.S Dont get me started on the kroxigor in skink unit thing

Onidan
26-09-2009, 11:18
Well, the "Kroxigor in Skink unit thing" is actually the only way I still use these guys.

As a special choice the loss of S7 took away their role and made them compete with Cavallery and Stegadons as hammer units, but I rather take the 5 wide Cavallery with Standard and spend 30 points more or a Stegadon over 3 Krox.

Besides, the special choices are limited, and units like Terradons or Templeguard (if I run a Slann) are more usefull in the long run anyway imo.

As core thatīs a whole different story, though.
A unit of 11 Skinks and 1 Krox with a musician make a nice support unit for a Saurus anvil.
Immune against fear, M6, 5 poisoned javelins in the shooting phase, enough US to break ranks and get the flank/rear bonus with 5 S3 and 3 S6 attacks and 2 static combat res are usefull enough for me to bring at least one unit of them in most lists I use ^^

So, as core I used them with quite some success, but as a special choice I prefer the other choices we have.

isidril93
26-09-2009, 11:59
as core i think they are a good idea

AFnord
26-09-2009, 13:43
They are no longer a no-brainer, but to be honest, they were a bit too good in the old army book. They still have their use, but they don't belong in every army. I for one have used units of kroxigors in some of my armies, and they still perform well enough.

CaptBenedict
26-09-2009, 18:14
Personally, though I feel the pain of having their Str reduced, it is not so much for chariot busting, but mainly against heavily armoured targets. They've gone from reducing Empire or Chaos Knights' armour saves from 5+ to 4+ and that really does worry me.

What bugs me the most though is the removal of that 'charging through Skink screen' rule. It was THAT which made Kroxigors so fearsome, in my opinion. Used that trick so many times with good effect. Now-a-days, after getting shot at constantly, only half a unit of Kroxes make it into combat and with WS3 and only 3 attacks each, they struggle to prove their worth. I haven't tried out the Skrox set up yet, but I'm really not a fan of sending WS2 T2 models into combat and giving away free Combat Res.

I still have a unit of 4 by themselves on my list everytime I play, but they just don't excite me as much as they did.

theunwantedbeing
26-09-2009, 18:58
So they stopped being broken, whats the issue?

They do 2 things.
1. Defeat armour, not as well as they used to but a 2+ save is reduced to a 5+ save, which is plenty good enough to fail over half the time.
Knights are faster than you, so dont be daft and try fighting them head on.
2. Defeat ranked infantry, they'll do less well vs really heavily armed infantry than they used to due to the lower armour modifier but against most things, st6 will negate your on foot save just fine, while still wounding you on a 2+ like they used to. Mv6 is also plenty fast enough to outrange infantry.

They're not even close to being a "bad" unit.

Korhil-WLC
27-09-2009, 04:43
But 55pts for a T4, S6 monster with WS 3 and 3 attacks?

ftayl5
27-09-2009, 09:42
I dont like the kroxigor in skink unit idea because (as CaptBenedict said) the skinks get give the enemy unit lots of easy kills and easy combat res. Then the skinks dont do any wounds, the kroxigors do some, but in my experiences the combination doesnt work unless the dice are on your side :(.

I still occasionally take units of 3 or 4 kroxigors as they are good for supporting my slower units with flank charges.

Paraelix
29-09-2009, 10:59
The idea behind the Skrox unit is getting the charge.

20 Skinks surrounds 3 Krox on all sides giving +5 combat res (3 ranks, standard, outnumber). On the charge you're getting 8 skinks on the front and your 3 Krox. Only problem is, they're still a dice generated unit. Either you roll well and win, or you roll crap and return attacks mince your skinks and lose you the fight. Mind you, my experience is against Chaos Warriors who, at 2 attacks each, can really make up for your bad dice rolls.

For Example; My 20 skink/ 3 Krox unit frontal charged 10 Khorne Warriors with a sorcerer. 1 Krox hit, and he failed to wound. 1 wound was caused by a skink. The Skink champ was forced into challenge with the Sorcerer, but armour prevailed.
In return, the sorcerer killed my champ twice over, and they killed 6 more skinks.
So my res5 vs his res 10. I held with double 1s, but in ensuing rounds all he had to do was target skinks... I lost 10 in the next round and my Krox choked again.

MarshalFaust
30-09-2009, 16:07
why would you ever charge those khorne warriors head on though? they are so easy to misdirect and then flank charge them with the skink/krox unit. I agree that krox by themselves seem decent, they are a little expensive for what is basically an ogre unit with the cold blooded rule but still good. they are a decently fast flanking unit that can put a hurt on most core troops. I probobly wont ever use skinks and krox in a combined unit ever as I think they work much better in tandem as a skirmish screen around the krox. baiting an enemy and then allowing your krox to get a flank charge.

Fechik
30-09-2009, 16:08
I use them in skink units rather effectively. I usually run a couple of units of 11 skinks and 1 krox.

They're fast, good at flank charges, make great re-direction units, cold blooded ld 7 is good at fleeing and rallying, immune to fear, and if they get killed it's only 110 points.

In my opinion if a 110 point unit can kite a unit of blood knights around the board and keep them out of the game is worth their weight in gold.

Loq-Gor
30-09-2009, 23:37
So they stopped being broken, whats the issue?

The issue is that they lost a point of strength, and S7 was more than made for by stiking last and 58 pts, and effectively recieved no price reduction, 3 pts constitutes just over 5% so insignificant. They were powerful but expensive, now they're expensive trash. That armor save you taked about means that empire and chaos knights recieved a major increase in models that survive wounds by Krox (5+=2/3 fail vs 4+=1/2 fail), and knights with a 2+ save came out even better (6+=1/6 fail vs 5+) Does S6 mean anything vs S7 when fighting skelleton warriors, elf spearmen, or anything else with 4+ armor save and less that T5, no, but Krox used to make up their points killing knights.

Don't bother taking them at all, saurus cav are faster with better WS, armor save, and will hit first evey now and again (not often but still), and stegs come with all kinds of better rules plus they're harder to kill.

Krox with skinks is only usefull against zombies, gnoblars, and skaven slaves. Anything else with just kill too many skinks to keep them from being anything but a hinderance to the now all but totally worthless Krox.

Now don't get me wrong in another army Krox would be a great choice, lots of fairly high strength attacks on a pretty fast unit with an acceptably good armor save? Hell yeah. But in the lizardmen, in comparison they don't have that many attacks, they aren't amazingly fast, their armor save is average at best, and their strength is at the higher end but not spectacular. They just don't stand out any more, so have become overpriced trash not worth taking.

Necromancy Black
30-09-2009, 23:42
So they stopped being broken, whats the issue?


How the hell were they ever "broken"? :eyebrows:

Never bothered with Kroxigors last edition, still don't both with them this edition.

Trigger36
01-10-2009, 03:17
Skroxs aren't supposed to be the forefront of an army. You don't go into a flank expecting to be swinging against anything that will beat your SCR. You take a ~100-200 point of Skinks and Kroxigors to SCARE people. A fear causing throw-away unit with combat resolution is enough to make most people divert shooting. They don't know that you could care less if the unit gets pin cushioned, but at least they aren't shooting at your Saurus. This said, I do not recommend more than one Krox in a unit of Skinks.

Saurus Cavalry are a good deal, but they are not throw away units being just under or above 200 points. They can very easily be whomped by high Strength units, with only five/six models in the average cav unit, even 1 man down is a terrible loss, while a S7 creature hitting skinks is saying "Boring..."

Pure Kroxigor units are devastating for their points, too. I would take S6 over the S5/S4 of an extra Saurus Cavalry unit depending on what I'm facing, but it's not like you're being forced to take Kroxigor OR Saurus Cav, as a matter of fact they work wonderfully together.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
01-10-2009, 03:46
Kroxigor in the 7th ed. are now design to supporter rather then a wall of muscle. I use kroxigors with saurus warrior as an Anvil n hammer. If you really want an effective skink cohorts then stick a stegadon in there.

Paraelix
01-10-2009, 04:17
I dunno what points games you guys are playing to be able to afford a 200pt "throw away" unit... I'm organising for 2000/2250pt lvl and I'm struggling to find the points for the units I want. Furthermore, in the sxample I used before, it was front charge khorne warriors or see them plow into the flank of my saurus unit who were suffering under Curse of the Leper (1000pt game).

Honestly, they aren't bad for their points... 5pts more expensive than Chaos Ogres which don't have aquatic/cold blooded/etc. BUT I don't have the points to spare ;-;

ftayl5
01-10-2009, 09:08
The issue is that they lost a point of strength, and S7 was more than made for by stiking last and 58 pts, and effectively recieved no price reduction, 3 pts constitutes just over 5% so insignificant. They were powerful but expensive, now they're expensive trash. That armor save you taked about means that empire and chaos knights recieved a major increase in models that survive wounds by Krox (5+=2/3 fail vs 4+=1/2 fail), and knights with a 2+ save came out even better (6+=1/6 fail vs 5+) Does S6 mean anything vs S7 when fighting skelleton warriors, elf spearmen, or anything else with 4+ armor save and less that T5, no, but Krox used to make up their points killing knights.

Don't bother taking them at all, saurus cav are faster with better WS, armor save, and will hit first evey now and again (not often but still), and stegs come with all kinds of better rules plus they're harder to kill.

Krox with skinks is only usefull against zombies, gnoblars, and skaven slaves. Anything else with just kill too many skinks to keep them from being anything but a hinderance to the now all but totally worthless Krox.

Now don't get me wrong in another army Krox would be a great choice, lots of fairly high strength attacks on a pretty fast unit with an acceptably good armor save? Hell yeah. But in the lizardmen, in comparison they don't have that many attacks, they aren't amazingly fast, their armor save is average at best, and their strength is at the higher end but not spectacular. They just don't stand out any more, so have become overpriced trash not worth taking.

my thoughts exactly

Trigger36
01-10-2009, 21:12
I dunno what points games you guys are playing to be able to afford a 200pt "throw away" unit...

I didn't make any mention of 200 point throw away units. As a matter of fact, I just discounted Cold One Cavalry as a throw away unit because they cost 200 points for a unit of five. The throw away unit I'm referring to is the 1Krox, 11 Skink formation (which is 120 points)