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polanowj
16-01-2006, 22:03
I am looking for the background to the Black Guard which was a second founding from the Raven Guard. Interested in any fluff or more specifically which doctrines they ascribe to.

Brother Othorio
16-01-2006, 23:29
i believe your out of luck, to my knowledge the chapter has never even had its name mentioned outside of the 2nd founding list, there isnt even an official colour scheme

polanowj
17-01-2006, 00:09
perfect, that is the conclusion I came to also after some serious google searching, no color schema info on them in the 'how to paint space marines' book, so really leaves me to use the name (which I like) and develop my own doctrines/traits.

Tynesh
17-01-2006, 00:54
One would guess that their colour scheme may be 'black', but don't quote me on that;)

Being a 2nd Founding Raven Guard Chapter, you should probably use the traits for the RG from the codex.

Cheers

Tynesh

devolutionary
17-01-2006, 00:56
While I can see where Tynesh is coming from, I think you should make them similar to the Raven Guard, but not identical, so don't follow the precise same traits. Crimson Fists and Black Templars are both vastly different chapters to the Imperial Fists, for example :)

polanowj
17-01-2006, 01:05
Well, good thing on the black, since I'm halfway there on that, WFB army are the Black Raven's, mortal Chaos.
WRT the traits, agree with devolutionary, they are going to 'fluffwise' aligned with Raven Guard, but not the same doctrines per se.

devolutionary
17-01-2006, 01:08
I'm actually thinking that with a guard theme, they may be a more defensive force, not unlike the Salamanders, only maybe you could do things like every Sergeant has power weapons, arm them with BP/CCW in Rhinos or Razorbacks, utilise plasma and flamers, etc...

There's a lot of room to move with a name like "Guard" :)

polanowj
17-01-2006, 01:15
yeah, good idea, would like to use some LRC/LR. I already got another termie unit, another razorback w/ 5 tactical squad and a predator annihilator.

Tynesh
17-01-2006, 16:59
Maybe try and keep hold of the rapid attack theme that the RG have, but include some more tanks?

ryng_sting
17-01-2006, 21:27
They're descended from the Raven Guard, and have inherited many of their preferences and proceedures - fast, stealthy, precise; big on land speeders, scouts and assault squads, lacking in heavier equipment and tanks.

ankellagung
19-01-2006, 10:21
Crimson Fists and Black Templars are both vastly different chapters to the Imperial Fists, for example :)

Aren't Black Templars an Ultramarine descendant, crusading to earn redemption for not being present at the siege of Terra?

DantesInferno
19-01-2006, 10:34
Aren't Black Templars an Ultramarine descendant, crusading to earn redemption for not being present at the siege of Terra?

No, they're not. The Black Templars are indeed a Imperial Fists descendant. They're crusading because they were made up from the most hot-blooded remainders of the Imperial Fist Legion during the reorganisation of the Legions. They were initially lead by Sigisimund, a Imperial Fist who was given the role of hunting down and challenging the Chaos leaders during the Siege of the Palace.

Not Ultramarines at all.

Here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/blacktemplars-who-are/1/) is a very basic background link to them.

Captain Ardias
19-01-2006, 10:35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankellagung
Aren't Black Templars an Ultramarine descendant, crusading to earn redemption for not being present at the siege of Terra?

Nope, the black templars where present, only they where imperial fists at the time. And the ultramarines where to far away to reach terra and be part of the siege.

devolutionary
19-01-2006, 10:35
... where on Earth did you get that load of lies? The Ultramarines feel NO remorse at not turning up. They were ordered out of range by Horus with the Emperor's blessing (at that point in time). It was impossible for them to reach Terra, so why beat yourself up about it? They rebuilt the Empire from the ashes.

Black Templars are Imperial Fist successors, taking upon the zealotry of the Imp Fists, as noted by the Emperor's Champion.

DraXaus
19-01-2006, 14:47
On the topic of the Black Guard. I heard that the black guard escort the black Ships of the inquision across the Imperium. This of course, is just rumour.

polanowj
19-01-2006, 15:10
thanks, I will do some more searching on their background, pretty light so far

Excelsis
22-01-2006, 09:54
I used to know a guy online aaaaaages ago through usenet who played Black Guard. I remember being impressed at the amount of thought he'd put into it. If you search through google's usenet archives from around 1988-89, you may find some of his posts that might contain some useful details.

Excelsis
22-01-2006, 13:17
Scratch that, I searched through it myself and found only one archived message and it looks like he considered it his own homebrew chapter. He details the color scheme he came up with though. Sorry for the false lead :(

Anyway here's the link if you're interested. Posted in 1989 as well - days of yore!

Black guard stuff from usenet (http://groups.google.com.au/group/rec.games.frp/browse_thread/thread/c2bc5135d0162b13/09c85eef51f1a840?lnk=st&q=black+guard&rnum=1&hl=en#09c85eef51f1a840)

polanowj
23-01-2006, 00:32
Thanks much for the shot at the USENET groups. I like his idea of the gold highlights, so everything isn't black & silver (although most of my chaos mortal WHFB has those colors..). Hadn't thought about drybrushing the bolters gold, might try that on a few to see how them come up. Tx again all.