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AussieSocks
27-09-2009, 12:00
Remember back when the Lizardmen book was released and everyone was panicing/ frothing at the mouth about the potential for 6 stegadons in 2000pts?

Did it happen? Did it work?

Guard of Itza
27-09-2009, 12:24
It is just a list of how many Engines you can fit into one list. Yes it can work, in fact it is one of the most cheesy lists out there in my opinion. Against elite armies it tears apart their numbers with no armor saves. Against horde it is a terror bomb. Against daemons and vamps (tomb kings too i think) it gets even more strength. If it is only a competitive environment it works, if it is not it works at making sure you never play a game again.

Putty
27-09-2009, 12:50
i did see a 5 steg list in action.

it was very nasty... 2 EOTG just pulsing away while the 3 other Stegs just march block or charge into stuff.

its pretty much like Nidzilla WHFB style lol

AussieSocks
27-09-2009, 13:55
Yeah the nidzilla comment is dead on i think, except the howdah on the back makes it so much cooler imho.

Just wondering because i built my own stegadon the other day and so far it has done a grand total of nothing in two games

But i suppose my opponent had 4 cannons... so i was kinda screwed. Any suggestions for extending the stegadon's life span?

Putty
27-09-2009, 14:08
the best way is to use them flyers to occupy them for 3 - 4 turns or even rout them.

but given that stegs take up the flying dinosaur choice (i think), your best next best choice is to hide the EOTG behind the Stegs that WILL charge into stuff.

but 4 cannons is tough stuff...

artyboy
27-09-2009, 15:29
You're going to have a very tough time handling 4 cannons. Terradon riders are expensive and I usually have trouble fitting more than 1 unit in an army. Since, by the time you pay for 2 EotG and a couple of ancient stegs you won't have room for more than 1 or 2 of the special stegadons you won't have to worry about your special slots being taken up.

Guard of Itza
27-09-2009, 17:30
Against that many cannons there is really not that much to do. fLying saurus terry mounted skinks, slann with lore of metal, terradons and possibly chameleons come to mind. Then just luck with wards from eotg or from celestial shield, or hoping that there are some misfires, about one a turn although not necessarily on the distance roll.

Paraelix
29-09-2009, 11:52
Play in Albion... and hope for thick mists :D

Grupax
29-09-2009, 13:23
if your steguadon is a character mount then you can stick him in a unit with a magical banner that protects vs missiles

Idle Scholar
29-09-2009, 15:40
Leave the Steg at home and bring the horde. 3 lots of Terradons and a unit of Chameleons coupled with plenty of skirmishers, at least two units of Skink cohorts and two units of Saurus warriors. By the time he's finished shooting all the mobile stuff your immobile stuff should be chowing down on tasty man-flesh.

Dranthar
30-09-2009, 06:24
I just ran a tournament where a player took a stegadon army. In 2250 points, he had;

Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skink Skirmishers
Stegadon
Stegadon

From memory he lost 2/6 games. The two lists he lost against were vs a High Elf army with a Star Dragon Lord, and a relatively normal WoC army. From what I hear, if the stegadons didn't get their impact hits and/or break the enemy, they were in trouble. After that the relatively easy-to-kill skinks combined with static combat resolution would often force them to break and run.

The general concensus was that it was one of the nastiest armies at the event (competing with 1-2 VC armies with Dragons, regeneration etc). But it didn't even come close to taking any trophies.
In fact, the Lizardmen army with a Slann, two stegs (inc. EOTG) and two skink priests (amongst other 'normal' things, like Saurus etc.) only lost one game and scored considerably higher than the stegadon horde (didn't win anything though)

Dungeon_Lawyer
30-09-2009, 07:27
One spell "Pit of Shades" --- it owns Steg lists

Dranthar
30-09-2009, 07:42
One spell "Pit of Shades" --- it owns Steg lists

I don't think magic would be quite that effective with 4 EotG --> 10 dispel dice.

If you can get it off however, yeah, it'd own. :D

Vsurma
30-09-2009, 08:49
well, first you need to cast the 12+ spell and chance a 12-18% chance of a miscast on 4 or 5 dice.

Then you need a 4+ to actually hit the steg since you cannot cover its entire base with the small template. Then it still has a chance to pass its ini test on a 1 or 2 depending on which kind of steg it is.

I am not sure if the pit is the best spell.

I think metal might be better to kill the stegs if there is a hero on top. They have t2 or 3 and have a 2+ save due to the steg. spirit of the forge or the 1st spell should do nicely, though it wont kill the steg.

someone2040
30-09-2009, 08:59
well, first you need to cast the 12+ spell and chance a 12-18% chance of a miscast on 4 or 5 dice.

Then you need a 4+ to actually hit the steg since you cannot cover its entire base with the small template. Then it still has a chance to pass its ini test on a 1 or 2 depending on which kind of steg it is.

I am not sure if the pit is the best spell.

I think metal might be better to kill the stegs if there is a hero on top. They have t2 or 3 and have a 2+ save due to the steg. spirit of the forge or the 1st spell should do nicely, though it wont kill the steg.
Since it's a ridden monster, doesn't it use the Skinks initiative? So got a fair chance of passing the test. Wouldn't want to be rolling the dice at the time... it'd make me a bit squeemish knowing my Steg is potentially gonna be one-shotted off the board, but after the hoops one has to go through to get a pit on one Stegadon, odds say "Stegadon's don't care that much".

Putty
30-09-2009, 09:07
I just ran a tournament where a player took a stegadon army. In 2250 points, he had;

Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
Lvl 2 Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon w. Engine of the Gods
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skink Skirmishers
Stegadon
Stegadon

From memory he lost 2/6 games. The two lists he lost against were vs a High Elf army with a Star Dragon Lord, and a relatively normal WoC army. From what I hear, if the stegadons didn't get their impact hits and/or break the enemy, they were in trouble. After that the relatively easy-to-kill skinks combined with static combat resolution would often force them to break and run.

The general concensus was that it was one of the nastiest armies at the event (competing with 1-2 VC armies with Dragons, regeneration etc). But it didn't even come close to taking any trophies.
In fact, the Lizardmen army with a Slann, two stegs (inc. EOTG) and two skink priests (amongst other 'normal' things, like Saurus etc.) only lost one game and scored considerably higher than the stegadon horde (didn't win anything though)

He shouldn't have fielded 6 stegs. 5 is supposed to be the optimum and the points spent on at least 1 unit of Saurus Warriors. Usually 3 stegs and 2 EOTG is more then enough.

Then again, WHFB is quite different than 40k in this respect... spamming produces rather different results... :p

Necromancy Black
01-10-2009, 00:45
Since it's a ridden monster, doesn't it use the Skinks initiative?

Yep, so Initiative 4. Makes it a lot more likely to pass the test.

Honestly Spirit of the forge would be better. Str 5 with no AS against the steg and Str 6 against the guys on top.

Dungeon_Lawyer
01-10-2009, 02:20
well, first you need to cast the 12+ spell and chance a 12-18% chance of a miscast on 4 or 5 dice.

Then you need a 4+ to actually hit the steg since you cannot cover its entire base with the small template. Then it still has a chance to pass its ini test on a 1 or 2 depending on which kind of steg it is.

.

AAHH in a recent tourney this was played against my steg wrong then.
Good to know. Thanks for that info Vsurma.

But how does the Pit of Shades work with the skinks in the howdah? If an opponite places the small template so that the crew are completely covered by it do they lose the 4+ to hit them? Or is it just the whole model that gets it????

Vsurma
01-10-2009, 17:46
Seeing as the mount uses the Init of the rider I am guessing the pit either swallows the unit whole or not at all, though if someone has another thought let us know.

Even if it did target the skinks on top whole, its still a 12+ spell that may kill a steg or a skink less than half the time.

The spirit of the forge on the other hand will do a whole lot more especially if some of the skinks on top are already dead, if their all alive I wouldnt count on getting more than 1 wound onto the priest though.

Even that one isnt great vs stegs considering its high casting value.

tw1386
01-10-2009, 18:04
No, you do not use the riders initiative. It's a template, so you hit the crew, the stegadon, and the priest. Then roll for all of them. As the priest still lives in the steg des, etc. That's how we've been playing it.

Grupax
01-10-2009, 18:20
aren't models in the center of the template automaticly hit (like with a stonethrower) wether they are fully under the temple or not...

wena
01-10-2009, 19:26
Monsterous mounts use the riders LD for checks not Initiative so pit of shades has potential to kill Stegs based on their Int. check (not the riders). UPDDATE: Wrong according to the FAQ...

Centre of the template does not apply to Pit of Shades so a 4+ is required to be rolled if the template does not cover the model.

Vsurma
01-10-2009, 21:00
Ok, well it makes the pit better, though I still wouldn't say its great for killing the steg, I still think there are better lores out there against lizards.

Personally I have been using metal.

The pit works great against against temple guard or saurus though! Especially with a slann inside, sure it gets a look out sir but that will fail 1/6 which is not bad considering its cost. Its too bad the spear in the lore of beasts doesnt do d3 wounds, otherwise that might be nice.

Necromancy Black
02-10-2009, 00:03
No, you do not use the riders initiative. It's a template, so you hit the crew, the stegadon, and the priest. Then roll for all of them. As the priest still lives in the steg des, etc. That's how we've been playing it.

Go read the First Warhammer FAQ. Espicially this bit:



Q. Occasionally, a model with multiple parts that have
different Characteristics, such as a cavalry model, a
Character riding a Monster or a Chariot, will have to
take a Characteristic test (like an Initiative test for a Pit
of Shades spell). If the model has multiple values for the
Characteristic to be tested, which one is used?

A. Unless differently specified, use the best value, in other
words the value that makes it more likely to pass the test.


So you use whatever Initiative is the highest, which is 5 if there is a Skink Chief or 4 is a skink priest or crew still lives. So Pit of Shade is only as reliable as some of the think if you've already killed of all the crew.

EvC
02-10-2009, 12:15
Make a thread in the rules forum if you want to discuss that FAQ. It'll be good to make Atrahasis do an impression of a man headbutting a wall if nothing else.

Stegzilla I think is kinda successful. At the most recent big UK tournament there was one Stegzilla list of 5 Stegs + Carnosaur Lord, and would have placed very well if it hadn't been smacked down by comp scoring. There's many armies that can't deal with it at all. I myself only played against one such list once, with my Warriors. One of my favourite games this year I'd say, as my Chaos Lord got so many Eye of the Gods rolls that he pretty much became a Bloodthirster.

Midevil216
02-10-2009, 15:31
There is a spell from the WoC Nurgle list that is nasty against Segadons also. I might be call "Somethng" Quagmire (All Right) For you Family Guy fans :)

Necromancy Black
02-10-2009, 19:36
There is a spell from the WoC Nurgle list that is nasty against Segadons also. I might be call "Somethng" Quagmire (All Right) For you Family Guy fans :)

That spell has the same problem though that it needs an initiative test and you've got I4 skinks on top taking the test.

I think the biggest threat to Stegzilla is still the gunline with cannons, bolt throwers, stone throwers, etc. Those are the armies that can reliably do the wounds and do them fast.

Dungeon_Lawyer
04-10-2009, 10:18
ok sorry to rehash here but just so I am clear: Pit of Shades when used against a steg, it does not matter if its a character mount or just a baby steg bought as a special choice: 1st you need a 4+ just to hit the thing since the template does not completely cover the model. 2nd the initiative test is taken by either the skink priest/chief, or in the case of the baby steg-its crew......Thus Pit of Shades= not very good against stegs of any sort.
Did I miss anything or is that all?

EvC
04-10-2009, 12:33
Yeah, you missed the part where I said you should discuss this in the rules forum.

Necromancy Black
05-10-2009, 00:32
Yeah, cause the workings or spells and the chances of them succeeding have absolutely nothing at all to do with tactics :rolleyes:

But as I said before, if you really want to use magic to kill the steg then use Spirit of the Forge: wounds all the skinks on top with a 2+, wounds the stegs on a 5+, no armour saves for either

But overall the stegs really aren't that weak against magic (not any more so then most other things). It's about the same as using magic to kill a Dragon IMO, except a steg is easier to see as it's not flying around.

So Stegzilla's biggest enemy is still going to be gunlines.

Dungeon_Lawyer
05-10-2009, 19:13
Yeah, you missed the part where I said you should discuss this in the rules forum.

No I saw it, just chose to ignore it :p

EvC
05-10-2009, 21:05
Ok. Well, I can tell you that you're wrong, but can't be bothered to explain why in the wrong forum ;)

Malorian
05-10-2009, 21:12
I'm looking forward to using this 2250 list:

Oldblood on carnosaur w/ light armor, shield, burning blade
Lvl 2(3) Skink priest on engine of the gods w/ scroll
Lvl 2(3) Skink priest on engine of the gods w/ scroll
BSB Skink chief w/ warspear on ancient stegadon

10 skinks
10 skinks
10 skinks

Stegadon
Stegadon



hehe...


Although I'm sure it will get boring REALLY quick...