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View Full Version : Slaanesh Dragon Lord, plz crtic..ty



Dark Lord
17-01-2006, 02:38
lol as my title said..it is really dumb..or unpreferred by many to play a dragon in a 2k army. First because its a huge point sink, second some says it cant make back for it points.

I have played tournaments before so i know roughly how my scoring is gonna be with a dragon.(came out first and third with empire and druchii)

But consider this how many ppl in a tournament..are fully prepared for a dragon and a chaos giant to boot.Thus far all the lists i have seen are generally all-rounders, where by a dragon can easily dominate one flank or table quarter without ever losing due to combat res while the rest of the army catches up and prepare to pwn ^^

Of course that may just be my delusion, but if i enter into combat by turn 2 or latest 3..how much damage can all-rounder tourny army deal to the rest.Plus magic heavy armies which cannot use thier spells due to engage units ,dispell scrolls etc etc. They lose a significant advantage due to a dragon army.

And no, aint gonna tell u where i come from..hate to see an anti dragon list waiting for me ^^

Anyway heres a list i tot up of...plz pick it apart and give me comments yar?

TY

Chaos lord on dragon-570
Mark Of Slaanesh-20
Blade Of Blood-35
Pendant Of Slaanesh-25
Enchanted Shield-10

Bray Shaman-75
Dispell Scroll-25
Dispell Scroll-25

Chaos Sorceror-85
Mark Of Slaanesh-20
Chaos barded steed-16
Power Familiar-50

Total:931

5 Chosen Knights-225
Mark Of Slaansh-20
Full Command-50
Rapturous Banner-50

One Chaos Chariot-120
Mark Of Slaanesh-10

5 Marauder Horsemen,Flails- 75

5 Marauder Horsemen,Flails-75

5 warhounds-30 pts

Total:625

6 Furies-90

Tuskgor Chariot-85

Total:175

Chaos Giant,Mutant Monstrosity-225

Grand Total:2001 pt

Total Models:32 models

Against Skaven..terror owns as does two breath weapons.

For basic army..as in all rounder and not total wacko armys like...8 rbts *coughs* i will simply charge forward of chourse with proper positioning to avoid getting flank etc etc..the norm.

I like to present a number of viable choices for my opponent.Lets see..possible shooting targets.Assuming i really just charge forward like a dranged freak..which i wont\

1)A giant with 5+ save and 6 wounds..and with very..very bad **** attacks although all are special and he's stuborn or was it unbreakable *shrugs* ld 10 rocksIMO plus the bonus if he falls down on them ^^ and terror.

2)Furies with 20 " ms can potentially help against flanking, cause fear, cant retreat due to shooting etc etc.In cc they suck..but against warmachine crew..pwns

3)Warhounds...definitely should die in round one..but wait..wads tt.Chaos knights behind them with a sorc to boot!(still considering the pros and cons of adding a sorc to the unit) defnitely need to see whether downgrading him is better

4)The two chariots?? Not possible to die in two turns of cc unless facing static dwarf army or empire gunline..which is good for me seriously if u consider what will happen in hth.

5)The two units of marauder horsemen with flail..S5 on the attack is no jk.Yet another feasible target.But heck only 75 points a model.

6)My big **** scary piece of hardware( and beautifully painted as well) the lord on dragon.If i dont hide him or smth.With two breathe weapons..he really can take down whole regiments by himself.Terror and a lord which can potentially double his wounds and increase his attacks .

Magic wise i have an average defense, most spells cant be cast in close combat or immune to psy. So i'll just pick out the ones i am ready to accept and dispell those which i cant afford to accept.5 dispell dice and 2 scrolls are a-okay with me. 6 PD is also acceptable. JUst not sure which lore suits the beash shaman..

Right its small but no fear of skavens because firstly the players which bring them in cant play so well. Any suggstions will be greatly appreciated..seriously.

Many choices to make lol, not sure if i should just off the giant and get another unit of knights or possibly spanws and such.

Anyway plz critic.Thanks

Neknoh
17-01-2006, 06:43
Ok, for your Lord and two casters, here's what you want to be doing:

Take the Lords equipment off, he doesn't need 6 wounds and over 10 attacks anyway.

What you want to give him is the Gaze of the Gods to protect him from Killingblow and Cannonballs, you also want to give him the Book of Seekrets and use the Lore of Fire in hoping for the Flaming Sword of Rhuin.

Also add a Hallberd or a Greatweapon to him, this should suffice as long as you don't run into any nasty etherals (which would be a very big problem if he did).

The Armour of Damnation can be nice, though it is not required, seeing as there shouldn't be much left in BtB after the charge into a flank, and, if you actually gets charged, there's something wrong (footsloggers shouldn't be allowed to charge him, keep him out of charge arcs and the like)

What should be mentioned is also that he will add 1 Dispell Dice and one Power Dice to your pool, and, as long as you don't give him a Shield, he will be able to cast his one spell.

Now, your casters, they are fine and dandy, however, upgrade them to lvl 2, I know that is another 70 points, but, you get 2 Slaaneshian Spells and 2 Shadow Spells (movement spells with cavalry makes for solid charges).

This would also pose another threat to your enemy other than combat.


I'd also drop the two Chariots in favour of a unit of Mounted Daemonettes, there's nothing better than them when it commes to eating flanks, if you can get them into the flank of his outtermost unit, they will rush through that unit and pursue/ocverrunn into the next one, this will be repeated for every battle.

Also, your Chosen doesn't need the Raptorous Standard, they strike before most guys and hit them on a 3+ anyway, no, give them the Warbanner instead, +1 CR is very good for your real strike team.

That's my two cents

Dark Lord
17-01-2006, 07:23
yes the merits of a chaos lord with BoS and Gog is good, in that case i might as well dont take the mark of slaanesh at all.

I have been eyeing the mounted demonettes as they look oh so good.And with my giant out there, the enemy will either be force to aim them or the giant. And both are really good .

I have real dobts abt taking chosen knights now,with a charge range of 14 " , it isnt really t far, what with DE and HE having 16" or in some cases 18". With the Rapturous banner i can at least lower their ws to half and stand a chance of surviving that charge.

Perhaps downgrading them to normal knights with the standard would be far more beneficial and cost effective.

With an undivided chaos force i can now field other units, perhaps dragon orgres to replace the chaos giant??

Thanks for taking time to see my list though. Iwill take up your suggestion of taking the lore of fire, in any case its basic spell is still good.But the i have some doubts abt upgrading the rest.

Why? Because this list was tailored to be in combat fast, how much effect can magic do to help?

Dark Lord
17-01-2006, 07:29
Oh yes, the rules for the tourneys here is that enchanted shields are counted as magical item, hence can i use it with the Bos in normal tournaments?

Neknoh
17-01-2006, 17:32
Nope, it's still a Shield, the rule for Sorcerors is that they only can cast with or without Chaos Armour of varius kinds.

As for the list getting into combat quick... how much have you used Shadow Magic? And have you ever seen how well an unbreakable unit of Chaos Knights does?

As for the Knights themselves, it's all up to you, play a game with this list (with mounted Nettes added instead of the Chariots) and see how it goes, if the Knights works out fine, use them (it IS one of the most evil combo's out there after all).

If not, downgrade them, get them a Warbanner and get another unit of Knights to aid them.

As for the Giant, why not get the Shaggoth Modell and use him as a Giant, just make sure you tell your opponent beforegame, it's deffinately going to classify as a Mutant Monstrosity, that way, you can also field a Shaggoth for a few games and see how well he fares.

Shaggoths are better flankers and Knight killers than giants are, however, in an army like this, it might be a good idea to use a Giant in order to tie up a big block of Static CR untill the Dragon gets there

the_night_reaper
17-01-2006, 23:22
chaos sorceror can cast spells while wearing any type of armour or magic armour.

I'd stick with the lord combo you posted in your first post. GotG only works for the lord, not the dragon which is what's going to be hit most of the time. And as for who really needs 6 wounds and 10 attacks...well I'd say any lord who intends to go fight units by himself but that's just me.

The idea of using the shaggoth as a dragon was a god idea and I might haveto look into that myself, however if you already have the giant model painted or not I'd stick with it instead of getting a shaggoth as well.

Chosen knights are awesome and I never leave home without them, but if you've already got a dragon and a giant I'd downgrade them and use the points to get something else like more hounds, another chariot ,another unit of maruder horsemen. Maybe even some centigors or minotaurs?

As for using a dragon in a tourny, I think not many army will have much to deal with him but most should have something so don't get too cocky while using him. Remember, he's the biggest, scariest, most powerful model and will therefore be target #1 for cannons, jezzails and other warmachines that your opponents can comeup with. I'd definately say go for it but don't play the army as a dragon army, play it as a normal army witha dragon. (if that makes sense)

Dropping the chariots for some mounted daemonettes could be a good idea as the chariots will lag behind the rest of the army whereas the daemonnettes will lead it.

play a few games with it, proxy some models if you have to and then tell us (or not) how it works or doesn't work with the suggestions already given.

good luck

Dark Lord
18-01-2006, 00:05
Thanks once more for the replies.

I spend like a day pondering over the lords combo.Do i want an uber character, yes i do.

Is it really neccessary, no it isnt.

I have decided to put the knights as chosen because the extra attacks helps to make up for combat plus the lowered ws of the opponents.

A shaggoth is good IMO but for his price, its very expensive. A giant is cheaper ,has the same wounds(though its -1 T), BUT its stubborn with a ld of 10. Todate, a giant can hold a charge better than a shaggoth.

When i play tournaments,i often depict worse case scenarios.Much of chaos depends on us getting rid of their warmachines and mages.

In this case, i have real doubts abt spending points to upgrade the two mages to level 2.

Most army have 5 DD and 2 or 1 Dispell Scroll, once i am in CC, steed of shadow is rather useless whereas the slaanesh lore can be useful. Do i want to spend 35 points for that extra PD. Iwill keep my slaanesh mage at level 2 of course because that lore can be used in combat. Seeing how things go, i i will equip my bray shaman with a spell familiar and a dispell scroll.

The extra 35 points i will see where to put it, if ther is really nothing else then i will upgrade the shamam to a level 2.

I also agree upon the impt of a mounted demonette and will take it p.

Hence my army will be this:

Lanshors Elite v.02

Chaos Lord on Dragon, GoTg,BoS,GW,EC-656
( i have checked and so long as the enchanted shield falls under the magic armour section,a wizard can use it,but not an ordniary shield ^^)

Bray Shaman, Spell Familiar, Dispell Scroll -115

Chaos Sorc,Mos,Lv 2 upgrade, Power familiar,Barded Steed-206

@977

2 * 5 Marauder Horsemen with flails- 150

5 Chosen Knights,FC,Mos,Rapturous Standard- 345

5 Warhounds -30

@525

6 Furies -90

5 Mounted Demonettes -150

@357

1 Chaos Giant, Mutant Monstrosity-225

@225

Oky..i have 50 points left over,guess its upgrade to lv 2 for the bray shaman. Take out the spell familiar.

Revision

Bray Shaman lv2 Dispell scroll. 135

30 points left over, cant decide between boosting the number of Mounted Demonettes or givng my lord the helm of many eyes and equipping the brayshaman with chaos armour or smth...

Your Mum Rang
18-01-2006, 19:42
Ever thought of how well 15 Furies could do? They can fly around and tip combats in your favour along with outnumbering the enemy with a fear causing foe.

Dark Lord
19-01-2006, 04:36
lol. yes i was thinking abt that, but two things stopped me.

1) $$$ nuff said , lol

2)It comes to the question of redundancy, 15 furies IMO is way too ex to break an enemy in combat, also when flanking a fully ranked infantry unit, one may not win with just outnumber alone. e.g 20 spearmen with no ranked bonus still outnumbers the infantry unit hence no auto break, in addition, there is always the standard to add +1 combat resolution to counter it.

Though its a very fun concept, i feel that points are better spend else where, 5 MD for example can do a whole lot more of damage than 10 more 9 more furies. its cheaper and almost as good, flying pwns fast calvary anytime, but furies only have one attack.

In addition, i am trying to present my opponent with a variety of targets to shoot at, not just a big pack of furies which they will shoot at.Though -1 for shooting is always good.

Still considering a lot of stuff.For example, giants are all that i suppose, but 2 spawns are cheaper and fulfill the roles just as well, if i give them the mark of nurgle making their attaacks poison, i tend to get more damage done to infantry units than my giant.Plus unbreakable beats stubborn anyday.

Anyway here is a second list i have been considering, its almost magic proof against most armies and its an all calv army too.

Wont be getting two level 2s, because for their point cost, they seldom do much use, esp when in cc, the slaanesh lore is the only one which can do some good, but my opponents keep dispelling those.

Anyway heres the revised list

ChaosLord on dragon,GW,Gotg,Bos,EC

Bray Shaman-Power familiar
Bray shaman 2 dispell scroll

*with 6 DD and 2 dispell,its almostttt magic proof, esp against average armys with 7 PD or 8.

5 Furies, reason why i am not making it 15 ^^ is becasue i have threee units of marauder horsemen and mounted demonettes to engage warmachines, lone mages or to take out other fast calvary.

5 warhounds, the meat shield of my chosen knights, decided to give them a warbanner and take off the mark of slaanesh since immune to psy isnt worth tt much to me IMO, esp with the mark of undivded, rerolling failed psy tests etc.

5 chosen knights, full command, warbanner.
-Why i took away the rapturous standard is because if an enemy calvary did strike me first, the ws of a normal ws5 knight will still hit the same, 4+. But in cc when i strike back, odds are i wiwll win the combat first. Against infantry, i shouldnt even be getting charged at all.And factor in the 1+ as. ^^

One Chaos Giant, unbreakable is da bomb, plus terror and his ability to take down enemy monsters and tie up other elite units, its da bomb..seriously.

2 unit of marauder horsemen, deployed in either 5 x 2 formation or 2 separate units. They move with the mounted demonettes. Shielind them and getting all the way back to enemy lines.Assuming the enemy fires at them, they risk leaving my giant, dragon,warhounds,spawns and esp furies to take out their warmachines etc.

2 Spawns of Slaanesh, i actually wanted 2 beast of nurgle, yet the thing which stopped me was the risk of the spawns getting left behind, which is not such a brilliant idea imo.Hence with 3d6, they work in conjunction to the furies and my giant to take down or slow infantry units...fast calvary or knights.

2001 pts ^^

Your Mum Rang
19-01-2006, 11:34
Hmm... I'd always considered the Giants a bit of a waste pf points. What makes the Chaos giant worth taking over the other types?

Dark Lord
19-01-2006, 15:34
Well, for starters he gets a an as of 5+ which is very nice. I am not sure abt the rules of other giants, i just know that they cost cheaper than a chaos giant.Perhaps it has stubborn?

A giant is worth its weight in gold literally because for 225 points u can potentially pwn other larger unit.For example a lone dragon whose rider has died closes to a giant statistically. Plus the giants random attacks are extremely good for wad it can do.Win combat res by two its da bomb.

Plus kill it in cc and risk it falling on top of ya.With the 5+ as, it has a fair chance of surviving shots, except for great cannons etc.This list is however in no way complete,im considering taking out the giant since the spawns happen to do their job so well by tieing up elite units.

I also want to include flayerkins, 5 of them,scout and 2 hand weapon plus killing blow. Can i say nice? Plus with the free points i can add in screamers which always rocks, or other stuff, no chariots though.Anyway will finalise this list later after a few more cooments... then its off to the tourney next week and bat reps to come.

Neknoh
19-01-2006, 18:53
Unfortunately, unless playing Archaons Horde (and thus removing all Beast and Daemon-parts from your army, including the Giant), you cannot field flayerkin.

If you're willing to start an Archaons Horde, may I suggest using Flayerkins and Mengil Manhides Manflayers to as quickly as possible dispatch of the opposing warmachines.

As for the Giant, well... Stubborn Ld 10 as with the O&G Giant makes it very nice, however, it's when you add those extra 25 points, gets a 5+ Armoursave AND have the chance of doing a body-slam on the enemy far more often than any other Giant (a Giant covers quite a few models)