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Chaplainen
30-09-2009, 12:34
Here's my HE tournament list 2150 pts.
Needs cutting and filing in points. Would really like to fit a Great Eagle in the list.

Will not play with a Dragon so that's out of the question (did that on the last tournament with the same army and I want to try something new.

I really like to have the 3 infantry blocks remain 15 man each, because that brings a bit of a different style of play than I'm used to with HE.

The list:

1 Prince, Great Weapon, Longbow
Armour of Caledor (2+ Save)
Vambraces of Defence (4+ Ward, reroll arm saves)
Talisman of Loec (1 round, re-roll to hit and wound and enemy arm saves, takes 1 wound)

1 Mage, Magic Level 1, Dispel Scroll x2

1 Noble, Lance, Longbow, Dragon Armour, Shield, BSB, Banner of Battle (+D6 Combat Res)


10 Archers


15 First SpearElves, Standard, Musician, Banner of Ellyrion


15 White Lions ,Full Command, Lion Standard, Skeinsliver (+1 to roll who goes first)


15 Swordmasters, Full Command


5 Dragon Princes, Full Command, War Banner


1 Lion Chariot


6 Shadow Warriors, Champion


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower


17 pts left

Guardian of the Rage
30-09-2009, 14:19
I admire your attempts to play something different from the norm, though i think that in the long run, you will find that there need to be some major changes.

The biggest issue that i can see is the Magic phase. In yours you have the ability to do absolutely nothing, which is fine if the magic defence is strong... it is NOT. 3 dispel dice and 2 scrolls at that points level is going to ripped apart in the enemy magic phase. Those lovely sword master and white lion units will take all sorts of magical damage before reaching combat, even against an average magic wielding opponent. Before you do anything else, my very firm recommendation would be sort that out quickly, particularly as the High elves have some excellent kit to nullify enemy magic (annulian crystal, Loremaster cloak, archane resistance banner and am. of fire).

The biggest saving i see right off the bat is the battle banner. Ok, it is great, but it is 80 point iirc and is the oldest trick in the book. The BSB bearer is always a juicy target anyway. I'm not saying that it won't work, or hasn't worked before, i'm sayng that a good opponent will guess it is coming. This saving should be combined with the shadow warriors, there are most definately better and more efficient ways to deal with skirmishers and hunt war machines.

With those 2 as starting points, i hand it back to you.

Kind regards,
GotR

Desert Rain
30-09-2009, 15:16
Drop the longbow on the prince, and the musician and standard bearer from the swordmaster, as well as a swordmaster model. Drop the shadow warrior champion too and you'll have enough points to buy yourself an eagle. You could drop the DP champion as well and buy a couple of extra spearmen so that they can rank up in 6x3 formation together with your lord.

Chaplainen
30-09-2009, 16:28
I admire your attempts to play something different from the norm, though i think that in the long run, you will find that there need to be some major changes.

The biggest issue that i can see is the Magic phase. In yours you have the ability to do absolutely nothing, which is fine if the magic defence is strong... it is NOT. 3 dispel dice and 2 scrolls at that points level is going to ripped apart in the enemy magic phase. Those lovely sword master and white lion units will take all sorts of magical damage before reaching combat, even against an average magic wielding opponent. Before you do anything else, my very firm recommendation would be sort that out quickly, particularly as the High elves have some excellent kit to nullify enemy magic (annulian crystal, Loremaster cloak, archane resistance banner and am. of fire).

The biggest saving i see right off the bat is the battle banner. Ok, it is great, but it is 80 point iirc and is the oldest trick in the book. The BSB bearer is always a juicy target anyway. I'm not saying that it won't work, or hasn't worked before, i'm sayng that a good opponent will guess it is coming. This saving should be combined with the shadow warriors, there are most definately better and more efficient ways to deal with skirmishers and hunt war machines.

With those 2 as starting points, i hand it back to you.

Kind regards,
GotR

Ah, some great ideas in there. Thanks alot.

Will get rid of the battle banner indeed. Had thought about that already, just wanted someone else to say it to. Do I take the standard bearer as he is then or should I add some Mag Res on him and field him with the gr swords?

Will try and add some magic res elsewhere in the army to. Or will another magician be enough?

The Shadow Warriors are actually only there because I happen to have some nicely painted models for them ready and I wanted to use them for that reason. I don't think they've ever made their points worth for me in any game so far.

My greatest problem is that I don't have any more spearmen, or any other models for that matter, painted, and I have no time to paint anything before the tourney...so. I really have to go with what I have here, as far as models go.

So here's another go with some modifications... comments?

1 Prince, Great Weapon with White Lions
Armour of Caledor (2+ Save)
Loremasters Cloak
Dragonhorn


1 Mage, Magic Level 2, Dispel Scroll x1 with SpearElves


1 Mage, Magic Level 2, Sigil of Asuryan with Archers


1 Noble, Lance, Dragon Armour, Shield, BSB, Amulet of Fire with Dragon Princes


10 Archers


15 First SpearElves, Standard, Musician


15 White Lions ,Full Command, Lion Standard, Skeinsliver


15 Swordmasters, Full Command, Banner of Arcane Prot.


5 Dragon Princes, Full Command, War Banner


1 Lion Chariot


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower


5 pts left

Chaplainen
30-09-2009, 20:46
bump bump bump

Dragon Prince of Caledor
30-09-2009, 22:05
Here's my HE tournament list 2150 pts.
Needs cutting and filing in points. Would really like to fit a Great Eagle in the list.

Will not play with a Dragon so that's out of the question (did that on the last tournament with the same army and I want to try something new.

I really like to have the 3 infantry blocks remain 15 man each, because that brings a bit of a different style of play than I'm used to with HE.

The list:

1 Prince, Great Weapon, Longbow
Armour of Caledor (2+ Save)
Vambraces of Defence (4+ Ward, reroll arm saves)
Talisman of Loec (1 round, re-roll to hit and wound and enemy arm saves, takes 1 wound)

1 Mage, Magic Level 1, Dispel Scroll x2

1 Noble, Lance, Longbow, Dragon Armour, Shield, BSB, Banner of Battle (+D6 Combat Res)


10 Archers


15 First SpearElves, Standard, Musician, Banner of Ellyrion


15 White Lions ,Full Command, Lion Standard, Skeinsliver (+1 to roll who goes first)


15 Swordmasters, Full Command


5 Dragon Princes, Full Command, War Banner


1 Lion Chariot


6 Shadow Warriors, Champion


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower


17 pts left

You need more magic defense.
As for fitting in a bird drop one of the scouts and forget having a champion there's no point.

Guardian of the Rage
30-09-2009, 22:34
Wow, that is certainly a big bump in the right direction.

I'll post again tomorrow when i have more time, but the next step might be the re-jig of a couple of magic items.

Just quickly, have you considered dropping the Great Weapon and Dragon Horn for the White Sword? Killing blow is always useful!

I might also suggest dropping the magic level of at least one of the mages and trying to get the annulian crystal in there. This is my favourite defence item as it adds a dispel dice and cost the enemy one of this power dice; a double whamy!

Back soon,
GotR

Chaplainen
30-09-2009, 23:29
Wow, that is certainly a big bump in the right direction.

I'll post again tomorrow when i have more time, but the next step might be the re-jig of a couple of magic items.

Just quickly, have you considered dropping the Great Weapon and Dragon Horn for the White Sword? Killing blow is always useful!

I might also suggest dropping the magic level of at least one of the mages and trying to get the annulian crystal in there. This is my favourite defence item as it adds a dispel dice and cost the enemy one of this power dice; a double whamy!

Back soon,
GotR

Thanks alot!
Looking forward to the further analysis.

Guardian of the Rage
01-10-2009, 10:30
Hi again,

Right, here goes, but firstly, well done, the second list is significantly better than the first in my opinion.

As far as the Characters are concerned, would you consider a rejig to go more Magically oriented? The reason i ask is that the Prince on foot will struggle to get the protection that such points investment will need when taking the lore master cloak.

Currently, you have 736 points on characters, would you consider this to open up your magical potential.

Archmage: L4, Scroll x2 - 300

Mage: L2, Annulian crystal - 175

Nobel: Amulet of fire, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon - 138

Nobel: BSB, Dragon armour, lance, shield on Barded Steed - 138

This totals to 751, but the 15 points can be saved by dropping one White lion.

Core is fine, and you can't really do much else with the models so i will leave that.

Archers (10)
Spearmen (15) mus. and stand.


The Wite lions have been reduced by one, and i also think that they should take the banner of saphery, to really pump out the magic dice. The Sword masters are fine if you want to take 15 of them, although i would advocate 12 here to save 45 points -which will help with the eagle! I have also switched the Dragon princes a little, as i don't think you'll need the Champion is the Nodel with BSB is in there too. I also think that you will get good millage from the Ellyrion banner and the ability to move through terrain with this unit.

White lions (14) Command, Banner of Saphery. Skein Sliver
Sword Masters (12) Command, banner of Archane
Dragon Princes (5) Musician and Standard, Banner of Ellyrion

Should work out identical in points, minus the 15 for the White lion for the Character costs and minus the 3 sword masters for the Eagle

The Bolter throwers are fine of course, as is the chariot. Then with the 45 points from the sword masters and the 5 points spare anyway, you can get that eagle!

So List summary time.

Archmage: L4, Scroll x2 - 300

Mage: L2, Annulian crystal - 175
Nobel: Amulet of fire, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon - 138
Nobel: BSB, Dragon armour, lance, shield on Barded Steed - 138

Archers (10)
Spearmen (15) mus. and stand.

White lions (14) Command, Banner of Saphery. Skein Sliver
Sword Masters (12) Command, banner of Archane
Dragon Princes (5) Musician and Standard, Banner of Ellyrion
Lion Chariot

Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Eagle

That is
- 68 models (all in)
- 9-11 power dice
- 6 dispel dice (-1 enemy power dice), 2 scrolls and Magic res on SM and WL

If you want the 15 models back on the sword master, then you can remove the eagle and return those 3 to the units.

I hope some of this helps.
Kind Regards,
GotR

Chaplainen
01-10-2009, 11:58
Hi again,

Right, here goes, but firstly, well done, the second list is significantly better than the first in my opinion.

As far as the Characters are concerned, would you consider a rejig to go more Magically oriented? The reason i ask is that the Prince on foot will struggle to get the protection that such points investment will need when taking the lore master cloak.

Currently, you have 736 points on characters, would you consider this to open up your magical potential.

Archmage: L4, Scroll x2 - 300

Mage: L2, Annulian crystal - 175

Nobel: Amulet of fire, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon - 138

Nobel: BSB, Dragon armour, lance, shield on Barded Steed - 138

This totals to 751, but the 15 points can be saved by dropping one White lion.

Core is fine, and you can't really do much else with the models so i will leave that.

Archers (10)
Spearmen (15) mus. and stand.


The Wite lions have been reduced by one, and i also think that they should take the banner of saphery, to really pump out the magic dice. The Sword masters are fine if you want to take 15 of them, although i would advocate 12 here to save 45 points -which will help with the eagle! I have also switched the Dragon princes a little, as i don't think you'll need the Champion is the Nodel with BSB is in there too. I also think that you will get good millage from the Ellyrion banner and the ability to move through terrain with this unit.

White lions (14) Command, Banner of Saphery. Skein Sliver
Sword Masters (12) Command, banner of Archane
Dragon Princes (5) Musician and Standard, Banner of Ellyrion

Should work out identical in points, minus the 15 for the White lion for the Character costs and minus the 3 sword masters for the Eagle

The Bolter throwers are fine of course, as is the chariot. Then with the 45 points from the sword masters and the 5 points spare anyway, you can get that eagle!

So List summary time.

Archmage: L4, Scroll x2 - 300

Mage: L2, Annulian crystal - 175
Nobel: Amulet of fire, Armour of Caledor, Great Weapon - 138
Nobel: BSB, Dragon armour, lance, shield on Barded Steed - 138

Archers (10)
Spearmen (15) mus. and stand.

White lions (14) Command, Banner of Saphery. Skein Sliver
Sword Masters (12) Command, banner of Archane
Dragon Princes (5) Musician and Standard, Banner of Ellyrion
Lion Chariot

Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Eagle

That is
- 68 models (all in)
- 9-11 power dice
- 6 dispel dice (-1 enemy power dice), 2 scrolls and Magic res on SM and WL

If you want the 15 models back on the sword master, then you can remove the eagle and return those 3 to the units.

I hope some of this helps.
Kind Regards,
GotR

Lots of good stuff in there. Thanks alot. Will give it another try tonight and posta new list. I'm leaving for the tournament tomorrow so I would greatly appreciate if you would have a look at it tonight :)

Cheers

Chaplainen
01-10-2009, 17:44
So here's the thing now.
I really like the whole magic strong, lots of magic def think we have going here... but...now the eagle is out of the picture again because of sudden lack of painted eagle model :(
and also, I'm not so very keen on taking the lvl 4 wiz totally unprotected like that...and...I don't have 2 wiz models on foot, so the lvl 4 will have to go on a barded steed (or the lvl 2 for that matter).

I just also found out that I have 2250 pts to work with and NOT 2150 :P

So something like this:


1 Archmage @ 364 Pts
Magic Level 4; Barded Steed
Guardian Phoenix
Jewel of the Dusk
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll


1 Mage @ 175 Pts
Magic Level 2
Annulian Crystal


1 Noble @ 138 Pts
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Amulet of Fire


1 Noble @ 138 Pts
Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield; Barded Steed; BSB


10 Archers @ 110 Pts


15 SpearElves @ 150 Pts
Standard, Musician


15 White Lions @ 330 Pts
Full Command
Banner of Sorcery
Skeinsliver


15 Swordmasters @ 280 Pts
Full Command
Banner of Arcane Protection


5 Dragon Princes @ 215 Pts
Full Command
Banner of Ellyrion


1 Lion Chariot @ 140 Pts


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts


1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts

10 pts left

Where do I deploy the Chars if this char line up is the one I'm gonna go with?

Desert Rain
01-10-2009, 20:09
I would deploy the foot noble with the spears, the mounted noble with the dragoon princes, mage on foot with the swordmasters and the archmage where he is in the best position to cast spells. Of course that depends on the overall deployment and terrain.vWith the models you have I think that you've made a good list.
So good luck in the tournament!

Chaplainen
01-10-2009, 22:15
Just got hold of an Eagle model again :)

Is it worth to sacrifice the Skeinsliver and a White Lion to fit an eagle in?

Chaplainen
02-10-2009, 11:49
bump bump bump

leaving in an hour...any last input?

Paraelix
03-10-2009, 02:26
Don't use full command on SMs and DPs unless you're using magic equip. 1 extra attack is NOT worth 20pts.