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dal9ll
30-09-2009, 19:53
So Ive been having an ongoing problem beating a certain High Elf player. He ALWAYS plays the same style gunline army (which I personally cant stand but thatís just me) that always runs:
--two Bolt Throwers
--two Seaguard units of 15 that contain a lvl. 2 Mage each
--1-2 units of 10-15 Swordmasters. I just donít have any combat units that can take care of them! ASF + GWs @ WS6 = lose
--other frequent includes: Star Dragon, a single lion chariot, 1-2 Dragon Prince units of 5, and a single Phoenix Guard unit that often includes a Lord of some kind

The only time I can beat him is when I run a ridiculously cheesy mono-Tzeentch list w/ Fateweaver, 40+ Horrors, etc. Even still, he runs enough ItP/Immune to Fear/Terror units that I cant effectively run a Slaaneshi Ld-Bomb list against him (usually a VERY effective list!!).

Basically he will deploy as far back as possible, puts everything on hills, then just passes almost movement phase while shooting/magicking me while I footslog all the way across the table. Then when I finally do get there, he strikes first. He has also explicitly stated that he always tries to run enough Magic in his list to make sure that I cant ever cast anything (which is a dick move but also unfortunately still what ends up happening). He always gets +2 to dispel, steals one of my power dice to add to his dispel pool, gets extra spells with lots of mages, and get +D3 power dice every phase. Last night, for example, I ran a list with a Lvl.1 Herald and a Lvl. 4 Keeper (7 power dice, 5 dispel dice) and he ran three lvl. 2ís and a lvl. 4 plus all the previously mentioned bonuses, and yes I wasnít able to cast anything the whole game.

Can someone help me out? Playing against this guy is getting REALLY annoying but I keep playing him because I want to try and learn the right strategies to kill him with. If it helps, I own basically everything in the Daemons Army Book.

Thanks!

PS: We play 2000, 2250, and 2500 point games.

Tarian
30-09-2009, 19:59
From what I've seen, Tzeentch doesn't like Dragon Armour much, and HE can be resistant to Psych. Khorne Dogs do well against SM, since with 2 wounds they usually get something to strike back, and any hit hurts. The trick with fighting the ASF elves is to make sure something gets to strike back. Most of their infantry has a T3 5+ save, and their units are very expensive. (usually) Nurgle/Khorne can do pretty well, as Nurgle is hard to kill and Khorne gets a lot of attacks.

dal9ll
30-09-2009, 20:05
Well Ive found Khorne (Bloodletters mainly) to be pretty ineffective. Yes, they are T3, 5+ save, but so am I. Bloodletters usually dont get to strike back unless theyreve got a Herald on a Juggernaut in the front rank.

Tarian
30-09-2009, 20:09
Yeah, I was more referring to the Juggernaughts/Bloodthirsters.

(BTW, with only 2 Bolts, he'd be hard pressed to stop a Bloodthirster. Trust me, I've tried... Just don't give him the Firestorm Blade!)

Slyde
30-09-2009, 20:12
Sounds like the HE player is using the most logical approach to dealing with daemon lists. As far as your list goes, medium magic is never a good investment. Either take plenty of magic or minimal protection. Also, a slaaneshi blitz list can be very effective against HE.

dal9ll
30-09-2009, 20:18
I played a Slaaneshi list against him last night and it wasnt very effective. He cast Curse of Arrow Attraction on my big Bloodletter unit with Banner of despair in it, then obliterated them with bows, bolt throwers and magic missles before I could even get to his lines. The Keeper of Secrets I ran was very effective but without any effective Magic and a dead Banner of Despair, I was way behind.

@Slyde:
Yeah, I do get the idea that he's meta-ing his HE lists against me, since we play regularly.

osickx
30-09-2009, 20:40
take units from the demon book that are generlly considered unfair; the masque, bloodthirster, demonettes with herald with many armed monstrosity, flesh hounds and flammers.

and the banner that affects a law of your choosing

dal9ll
30-09-2009, 20:48
Are Bloodthirsters really that great against Bolt Throwers? They would often be a 2+ to hit, with S6, ignore armour saves, and D3 wounds. This. Is. Nasty. Against. Greater. Daemons.

Tarian
30-09-2009, 20:52
He'll get one to two volleys off against it usually, so 5/6 hit, 3/6 wound, 4/6 leak the ward. That works out to just over 1/4th of the bolts will wound, each doing d3 wounds, so assume 2 wounds each. So in 2 rounds of shooting with 2 bolt throwers, he should do about 2 wounds. Then you're in combat, smashing his combat troops.

PeG
30-09-2009, 20:55
Take the banner of sundering and multiple small units of horrors to shut down his magic phase. Take multiple flyers including a thirster in obsidian armour to take out warmachines and shooters. Add fleshhounds for more punch and as many fast units as possible. Use siren standard or siren song to avoid Stand and shoot and to mess with the enemy lines.

He will have one turn of shooting to take out the thirster before his RBTs gets hit in close combat and if you are really concerned hide him until other flyers/fast stuff are in combat.

dal9ll
30-09-2009, 21:54
He'll get one to two volleys off against it usually, so 5/6 hit, 3/6 wound, 4/6 leak the ward. That works out to just over 1/4th of the bolts will wound, each doing d3 wounds, so assume 2 wounds each. So in 2 rounds of shooting with 2 bolt throwers, he should do about 2 wounds. Then you're in combat, smashing his combat troops.


The Bolts Im talking about are S6. 2+ to hit because BS4 and Large Target, wounds on a 4+ (S6 vs. T6), no armour save, and 5+ (not 4+) ward save for the Bt, and doing D3 wounds per unsaved wound. And no, you cant assume two wounds each, as each outcome is equally likely. So he could get two wounds, one of which becoming 3 and the other becoming 2 or 3, which would kill the Bloodthirster. No armour save from these Bolts is really what screws me.

King_Pash
30-09-2009, 22:18
I'd put fast, cheap units up front and slap him in combat. Flesh hounds are NASTY against HE and can munch a unit of Swordmasters (unless they have Shield of Saphery on them) in a couple of rounds of combat.

The list he uses against you seems like it's hardcore but I have used something similar and to be honest it really crumbles when it comes to close combat.

Do Deamons get anything to screw with other people's magic phases like Pandemonium or anything? That tends to decrease the effectiveness of a HE magic phase, believe me!

dal9ll
30-09-2009, 22:24
Im sorry Im still not seeing how Hounds are good against Swordmasters. They hit first on 3's, wound on 3's, then I just get a 5+ save. and with 2 attacks each and a champion, thats a lot of attacks coming at me. I assume youre talking about a standard unit of 5 Hounds.

Standard of Sundering (screws over opponent's magic) is definitely something to consider, as is a Bloodthirster with IF among other things.

Tarian
30-09-2009, 23:11
The Bolts Im talking about are S6. 2+ to hit because BS4 and Large Target, wounds on a 4+ (S6 vs. T6), no armour save, and 5+ (not 4+) ward save for the Bt, and doing D3 wounds per unsaved wound. And no, you cant assume two wounds each, as each outcome is equally likely. So he could get two wounds, one of which becoming 3 and the other becoming 2 or 3, which would kill the Bloodthirster. No armour save from these Bolts is really what screws me.

Yes, I know. I play HE myself.

The ward save (4/6) to get through says that there's a 2/6 chance to block it, i.e. 5+ WS. With each outcome equally likely, the average is, indeed, 2 wounds per bolt wound. (1+2+3)/3 = 2

Yes, it is theoretically possible for your 'thirster to die, it's also possible for spearelves to drop him. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.

And it's from experience that Hounds are good against Swordmasters. Will they annihilate them? No. Will they survive to deal wounds/reduce the amount of Swordmasters? Yes.

CaptainAwesome
30-09-2009, 23:29
Slannesh multible units of daemonettes with helrads. Siren song dragon prices turn 2 overrun charge main battle line turn three with standards which block stand and shoot. take enough dispel scrolls to stop magic for two turns. Herald will kill most of the swordmasters before they strike. 2units of 10 furies attack bolt throwers. Flesh hounds chariot. Bloodthrister whatevers left.

That will proberly sort him out. Flamers work well against Eagles if he uses these to march block you.

Regards

Lijacote
30-09-2009, 23:59
Wouldn't Fiends of Slaanesh be especially great against elves? Multiple wounds each makes them likely to survive the ASF, and the high number of attacks and S4 means elves should die in high numbers. High speed, too, could mean turn two eradication of bolters, if you're inclined to rescue your greater daemon. Archers should die horribly against these as well.

Fiends of Slaanesh and a Keeper of Secrets should do you much, much good against elves. Are daemonettes striking before elves? I can't remember elven initiative values...

ethsar46
01-10-2009, 01:11
Best way I've found to beat HE is to take a very fast army.

So your basic choices would be as follows:
BT/Keeper
1-2 HoK (1 is a BSB with standard or sundering or -2 Ld)
1-2 HoS w/ Siren song and steeds
Min sized core units of Daemonettes or Horrors
Furies
Fleshhounds
Seekers with the siren standard
Fiends
Flamers

LKHERO
01-10-2009, 03:21
Fleshhhh hounds!

esqulax
01-10-2009, 08:25
If everything else fails you could also try a nurgle wall of regenerative doom. really doubt his archers and bolt throwers will be able to put a dent in that.

PeG
01-10-2009, 08:26
Slannesh multible units of daemonettes with helrads. Siren song dragon prices turn 2 overrun charge main battle line turn three with standards which block stand and shoot. take enough dispel scrolls to stop magic for two turns. Herald will kill most of the swordmasters before they strike. 2units of 10 furies attack bolt throwers. Flesh hounds chariot. Bloodthrister whatevers left.


Regards

The only way for daemons to get dispel scrolls (or their version of it) is to take heralds of Tzeentch which of course decreases the number of heralds of Slaanesh on the table

PeG
01-10-2009, 08:28
Do Deamons get anything to screw with other people's magic phases like Pandemonium or anything? That tends to decrease the effectiveness of a HE magic phase, believe me!

Standard of Sundering enemy gets +2 casting values for all spells from a lore of the daemon players choice (which is made after the opponent declares which lores he is using). If Lore of light it also causes miscast on any doubles.

Falkman
01-10-2009, 09:46
Standard of Sundering enemy gets +2 casting values for all spells from a lore of the daemon players choice (which is made after the opponent declares which lores he is using). If Lore of light it also causes miscast on any doubles.
No, they get -2 on their actual casting rolls.

fubukii
01-10-2009, 10:09
Ok, i have played daemons for quite some time so i will lend you some advice for beating these pesky he.

Generally he can be a tricky army for daemons to play vs. They are imune to alot of our best units due to dragon armor, but all isnt lost.

Plaguebearers with a HON (palaquin/vapours) is the ultimate unit vs high elves. No high elf unit except the star dragon can deal with them. The herald alone absolutely dominates whole ranks of elves. id put these guys against any he infantry/knight unit and expect to win greatly, and he wont get much Active cr back due to the 5++ 4+ regen
All greater daemons should due well here. THe keeper with siren song would be excellent. siren song one of his swordmaster units or some other Insane asf unit with low static cr, maul its front rank win combat and break them.
Blood thristers are also useful vs swordmasters or any unit really minus Pg, just be wary of using the fsb.
- use furies to get to his war machines, this will take his shooting away from your main units at the very least. i suggest 2 units of 5.
flesh hounds are great vs high elves, yes charging sword masters in the front with hounds is suicide. but flanking them is not. most SM units only 2-3 deep, netting 4-6 attacks, 2.5-4 hits, like 1.5-2.5 wounds roughly then ward allowing you attacks, flank bonus etc. I would probably avoid charging most he units in the front (i wouldnt charge spears, pg, or sm) you can use them to beat down his archers and knights, and flank charge. The mr3 will help out vs his magic spam as well.
- flamers while they can not hurt dragon armor, they are insanely effective vs HE infantry. Use them to vaporize swordmaster/spearmen units. If you can whittle down spear blocks you can even charge them with your hounds.
- horrors are extremely useful, extra dd, and a spell. Flickering fire is pretty good vs all elf units without dragon armor.
- maybe take some heralds of tz with lore of beasts/death/fire depending on his army build.
- Heralds of khorne with banner of unholy victory dominate most HE units by them selves. (on average 3 static cr and probably 3 wounds) granted i wouldnt charge him into full 3 rank blocks solo unless he is in general range maybe. but paired with another unit he is dominating.

theres my thoughts :)
typically my tournament list does well vs most he builds. i run
thrister
2 heralds of tz
1 hok jugg, bsb +d3 cr
3 x 10 horrors
2 x 5 furies
2 x 5 hounds
2 x 5 flamers.

static grass
01-10-2009, 10:11
So Ive been having an ongoing problem beating a certain High Elf player. He ALWAYS plays the same style gunline army (which I personally cant stand but thatís just me) that always runs:
--two Bolt Throwers
--two Seaguard units of 15 that contain a lvl. 2 Mage each
--1-2 units of 10-15 Swordmasters. I just donít have any combat units that can take care of them! ASF + GWs @ WS6 = lose
--other frequent includes: Star Dragon, a single lion chariot, 1-2 Dragon Prince units of 5, and a single Phoenix Guard unit that often includes a Lord of some kind

The only time I can beat him is when I run a ridiculously cheesy mono-Tzeentch list w/ Fateweaver, 40+ Horrors, etc. Even still, he runs enough ItP/Immune to Fear/Terror units that I cant effectively run a Slaaneshi Ld-Bomb list against him (usually a VERY effective list!!).

Basically he will deploy as far back as possible, puts everything on hills, then just passes almost movement phase while shooting/magicking me while I footslog all the way across the table. Then when I finally do get there, he strikes first. He has also explicitly stated that he always tries to run enough Magic in his list to make sure that I cant ever cast anything (which is a dick move but also unfortunately still what ends up happening). He always gets +2 to dispel, steals one of my power dice to add to his dispel pool, gets extra spells with lots of mages, and get +D3 power dice every phase. Last night, for example, I ran a list with a Lvl.1 Herald and a Lvl. 4 Keeper (7 power dice, 5 dispel dice) and he ran three lvl. 2ís and a lvl. 4 plus all the previously mentioned bonuses, and yes I wasnít able to cast anything the whole game.

Can someone help me out? Playing against this guy is getting REALLY annoying but I keep playing him because I want to try and learn the right strategies to kill him with. If it helps, I own basically everything in the Daemons Army Book.

Thanks!

PS: We play 2000, 2250, and 2500 point games.


I really like the sound of this HE player. He uses a balanced list. 2 warmachines and 2 shooty units, a gunline does not make.

It sounds like he has tailored his list to take you on and deploys correctly to deal with all the uber cheese in the Daemons list.

All in all he sounds like a great player.

Anaris
01-10-2009, 10:49
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I suppose if he's taking 4 Mages (Lvl4 and 3 Lvl2's) it could be argued that's it's slightly cheesey in the magic phase but I tend to think that it's pefectly viable to go all magic, especially with HE's and their background.

Just seems to me that the DoC player is finding out that you can take as many units as you want from that broken list, but if you don't know what you're doing with it and your opponent knows what he's doiing (as this HE player does) then you will lose.

punkoteloco
01-10-2009, 11:42
Plaguebearers with a HON (palaquin/vapours) is the ultimate unit vs high elves. No high elf unit except the star dragon can deal with them. The herald alone absolutely dominates whole ranks of elves. id put these guys against any he infantry/knight unit and expect to win greatly, and he wont get much Active cr back due to the 5++ 4+ regen


There you have it. Thats your solution. They are great agains shooting and people who attack first because they have pointy ears and they dress in white robes.

fubukii
01-10-2009, 19:30
I really like the sound of this HE player. He uses a balanced list. 2 warmachines and 2 shooty units, a gunline does not make.

It sounds like he has tailored his list to take you on and deploys correctly to deal with all the uber cheese in the Daemons list.

All in all he sounds like a great player.

I think its not fair to label the OP list as uber cheese. He seems to be running a fairly tame and balanced doc army. Not every unit in the army book is cheese, despite what internet whiners who label anything daemonic as the Apocalypse. Yes the list is top tier, and has some abuseable units/builds more so then other armies, but every army has top tier builds able to compete.

but back on topic, i do think the plaguebearer unit will help greatly, just get rid of his eagles so you dont get redirected/march blocked.

shartmatau
01-10-2009, 19:43
I agree that some plaguebearers and herald would do well. Although you could just go with the herald and throw him in with another unit. I'd make him a level 1 and give him the Staff of Nurgle. If you cast enough then pop the Staff on a unit it is likely to get crushed under so many failed toughness tests. If you do this to the small units of swordmasters/white lions they are likely to become completely in-effective after one round of that spell.

I would be tempted to take a bloodthirster and just him go wild on some elves, although the Keeper is probably a better greater daemon overall. I just like seeing the Bloodthirster break units with relative ease, even if he is striking after them. The Keeper can pound any of High Elf unit in combat but isn't likely to win combat against static combat res; so aim for the smaller units.

If you can take down his heavy hitter combat units and competently manage his magic (by being magicly offensive) then you should do well. That Nurgle sorceror is also good for taking Buboes the first spell in Nurgle lore. Which can smack around his mages.

Sounds like a fun battle though.

dal9ll
01-10-2009, 19:44
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I suppose if he's taking 4 Mages (Lvl4 and 3 Lvl2's) it could be argued that's it's slightly cheesey in the magic phase but I tend to think that it's pefectly viable to go all magic, especially with HE's and their background.

Just seems to me that the DoC player is finding out that you can take as many units as you want from that broken list, but if you don't know what you're doing with it and your opponent knows what he's doiing (as this HE player does) then you will lose.

Excuse me?

Im sorry but I find a bit insulting that you assume that I dont know what Im doing, especially given that I made no mention of how I played in any of the matches. I only mentioned that he beat me. The fact that he's tailored his list against me is no indication of his skill level when he beats me, only that he knows what Daemons are weak against.


Back on topic, Ive basically discovered that these are no longer friendly games and that he obviously really cares about beating me, regardless of whether or not its a fun match. Its actually sort of sad really, considering how few WHFB players there are in my area. This being the case, Im done making non-cheesy, thematic, and/or "friendly" lists to play him with. Let the broken trash commence!

I guess this means that almost every list Im going to play him with will include a GD (either a tricked-out Bloodthirster, Keeper, or Fateweaver), 2 units of Flesh Hounds, Flamers, Furies, Siren Songs galore, hellza Horrors, and of course the nasty, nasty Banners.

This list Ive resisted using but has indeed pummeled him back to Ulthuan:
-Fateweaver
-The Blue Scribes
-Herald of Tz on Chariot w/ BSB, Banner of Despair or Sundering, Master of Sorcery, Spell Breaker/Flames of Tz
-Herald of Tz w/ Vortex, Winged
-10 Horrors
-10 Horrors
-10 Horrors
-10 Horrors
-7 Furies
-5 Hounds
-5 Hounds
-6 Flamers w/ Pyrocaster

This list just makes WAY too many power dice, haha. Anyway, last time I played him with it, he ran a Magic-heavy list with Teclis, and the rest of the stuff I listed. Kairos hid in some woods and casted Rain Lord and Comet and some other non-LOS requiring spells, Furies panicked a Bolt Thrower which caused two other units to flee off the board, including his Seaguard deathstar containing Teclis and two other lvl.2 Mages (1000+ pts in that unit). Flamers roasted some Swordmasters, and Horrors took charges while Hounds flanked. He also didnt really get to cast any meaningful spells since I dispelled so aggressively.

Its a right-cheesy list tho...

fubukii
01-10-2009, 19:59
the above list should work, it will dominate his magic phase.

Just hope he doesnt take the dragon prince spam list with star dragon. Banner of the world dragon makes tz daemon lists cry :(

Arguleon-veq
01-10-2009, 20:08
Really even with the things he is taking, it shouldnt be too much ofa problem for even a fairly tame Daemon list to take out.

As has been said;

If you are using magic - Use a lot

You also really need to start running the numbers on certain things before saying what should and shouldn't happen.

2 Bolt Throwers do 1 wound a turn to a Bloodthirster. Thats not a wound each, that is between them. So 1 wound a turn unless he gets lucky.

Hounds are decent against Swordmasters. Take units of 6.

I am assuming 14 Masters. No command, 2 ranks of 7?

He goes first. 3 Wounds.
You strike back. 4 Wounds.

Equal unit Strength.
He had a rank.

Draw.

Plaguebearers with a Herald on Palanquin with Vapours as had been said again, is afantastic unit against High Elves. Be careful against Fire Magic if you arent taking much magic defence though.

How about;

2000 Points

Thirster; Fury, Armour, Firestorm or Axe - 515
Herald of Tzeentch; Chariot, Master of Sorc, Corona - 225
Herald of Tzeentch; Vortex - 145

29 Horrors; Standard, Bound Spell Banner - 385
10 Horrors;
10 Horrors;

7 Hounds;
7 Hounds;

12 Power,
8 Dispel.

That Chariot Herald could probably even beat his Swordmasters. It gets 5-6 kills. It can go and kill his Archers/Bolt Throwers though and it makes a great flanker for your thirster/hounds.

That Horror Block can beat a lot of Elves in combat thanks to that Ward and Banner.

Plus you have 4 powerful units/models that will be on him by turn 2 and a lot of your magic can still hurt him even whilst you are in combat.

I also dont think that its too beardy a list either as far as Daemons go.

Lowmans
01-10-2009, 23:44
Got to say this guys HE list does not seem too harsh to me.... HE are good at magic denial, I'm afraid it's a fluffy thing too!

My advice:

Pick a fair and balanced army and play him with that. All you'll end up doing if you keep heading this way (after a little arms race) is showing that the Daemon book can be used to create a list better than the High Elf book can generally cope with..... I would guess you both know that already.

If his list bores you could ask him to vary it.
Try bringing in a veto for each player e.g. he drops a boltthrower for something else and you drop a unit of Horrors or whatever you both decide.
Try swapping armies now and again. You can learn a lot about the opposing army and your own this way.
Maybe even try picking your armies then rolling for who plays which one, then it'll be an interesting time picking your army because how far will you 'cheese' things if there's a chance you'll have to deal with them?!

I hope this is helpful.

L

archie-d
02-10-2009, 12:10
if you wanna stop him, id suggest trying a keeper with siren song with a nearby LD bomb, youre in their face in the first turn 1 and forcing a unit to charge him which prevents them being able to shoot him, or flee through the rest of his army with negative LD modifiers. tis nasty.

isidril93
02-10-2009, 15:44
i woudl use fiends and seekers...very fast.
note this list is merely gueswork, might work wonder or might fail miserably
use like 4 units of seekers with heralds in them and that banner that doesnt allow reaction (like shooting or fleeing). swordmaster would not do too great against them as the asf of the herald (with like 6 attacks) is faster and can take out like 3 (thats already 6 attacks less). two units of fiends (like 4 strong) really hurts high elves, experience show not even swordmasters can take them out.

3 units of horrors are good as well as unpgrading you heralds to wizards to get a better magic defence

Lijacote
02-10-2009, 15:56
i woudl use fiends and seekers...very fast.
note this list is merely gueswork, might work wonder or might fail miserably
use like 4 units of seekers with heralds in them and that banner that doesnt allow reaction (like shooting or fleeing). swordmaster would not do too great against them as the asf of the herald (with like 6 attacks) is faster and can take out like 3 (thats already 6 attacks less). two units of fiends (like 4 strong) really hurts high elves, experience show not even swordmasters can take them out.

3 units of horrors are good as well as unpgrading you heralds to wizards to get a better magic defence

I really don't see a Herald of Slaanesh taking out 3 Swordmasters, they have 4 attacks base and 6 only with the +2 attacks gift, the ASF effect doesn't extend to her mount either. I would not send Seekers with a Herald against a unit of Swordmasters. After the Herald fails to kill enough of them, they'll hit back, decimate the expensive Seekers and cause the unit to take a disadvantageous Instability test. When they're wielded 7 wide (which I think would not be all that surprising), the seekers stand no realistic chance... as far as my intuition goes.

WusteGeist
03-10-2009, 04:45
Can not believe you did not already think of nurgle. Herald with strike last and reroll wounds. Take 2 large units walk up start smashing face. If you need anti magic take banner of sundering(think thats its name) -2 to anyone school of magic. Demons really are the easiest army to hit the "Auto Win" button with. Sure HE can give them hell, but a few tricks and you got em pegged. Sword masters will not chop up large blocks of nurgle not with a massive 50mm base saying strike last and 4+ regen and 5+ ward.

w3rm
03-10-2009, 22:40
My 2c

Take a HoT with a Disc, bsb, and banner of hellfire
He is 260 pts. A little pricey yes but fly this sucker behind enemy lines and spam some magic and watch him go! Fly him behind some cover and take out some bolt throwers. Use it last cuz its easy to dispell but if it goes off it can even hurt dragons with d6 str 6. A good list might look like Arguleon's

Bloodthirster- 515
IF, Armour of Khorne, Firestrom Axe

HoT- 260
BSB, Disc, Banner of Hellfire

HoT- 165
Vortex, Wings

28 Horrors- 358
Banner of Scorcery, Standard

10 Horrors- 120

10 Horros- 120

7 Hounds- 245

6 Hounds- 210

Total 1993

PD- 12
Dispell- 8

Very similar to Arguleons but with the HoT to kill off those peskey bolt thowers and lost of magic to chuck around.

isidril93
06-10-2009, 21:05
I really don't see a Herald of Slaanesh taking out 3 Swordmasters, they have 4 attacks base and 6 only with the +2 attacks gift, the ASF effect doesn't extend to her mount either. I would not send Seekers with a Herald against a unit of Swordmasters. After the Herald fails to kill enough of them, they'll hit back, decimate the expensive Seekers and cause the unit to take a disadvantageous Instability test. When they're wielded 7 wide (which I think would not be all that surprising), the seekers stand no realistic chance... as far as my intuition goes.

its 3+ to hit and 3+ to wound (iirc) and no armour save...thats 2.66, 3 kill rounded up
there isnt really muich else to take beside the claws anyway

the seekers have equal I to the swordmasters so they have to roll off
another 10 attacks hitting on4 will give 5 hits, wounding on 4 will give 2.5 kills (lets says 2 as we gave the other kill to the herald) so 5 out of the 7 swordmasters are dead

obviously it can fail and i've probably miscalculated something but given a standard and an alluress im sure they can win

HellRaid
07-10-2009, 00:18
Furies panicked a Bolt Thrower which caused two other units to flee off the board, including his Seaguard deathstar containing Teclis and two other lvl.2 Mages (1000+ pts in that unit).

I'm confused as to how fleeing bolt thrower crew caused two other units to flee since they're under US5 and all.

But yeah, sounds like you got pretty lucky that game from that event alone (he must've failed two Ld10 tests in a row)! What points limit was it anyway?

yoshimo
07-10-2009, 13:29
or take plaguebearer blocks with a herald on palanquin with noxious vapours so that they don't attack first and have little chance of killing anything even with GW/BT

Lijacote
07-10-2009, 14:40
its 3+ to hit and 3+ to wound (iirc) and no armour save...thats 2.66, 3 kill rounded up
there isnt really muich else to take beside the claws anyway

the seekers have equal I to the swordmasters so they have to roll off
another 10 attacks hitting on4 will give 5 hits, wounding on 4 will give 2.5 kills (lets says 2 as we gave the other kill to the herald) so 5 out of the 7 swordmasters are dead

obviously it can fail and i've probably miscalculated something but given a standard and an alluress im sure they can win

Your math fu is superior to my intuition, I stand somewhat corrected. It could go either way, it seems.