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Grimaldus
17-01-2006, 23:27
Hey all, I'm soon going to be starting, for the first time, to play Fantasy. I've played 40K for a while now, and really am looking forward to getting into the whole Fantasy dealie.

Now, I'm thinking that I want to have my first army be Skaven. However, after browsing around the forums here and there, it strikes me that it's fairly easy to make a Skaven army overpowered or cheesey. This is something I'd like to avoid.
The trick is, I'd like to avoid it but still take advantage of some of their goodies.

It seems to me that the army that most people have a problem with is the so-called SAD, or some such thing. I gather its mostly made of shooting units like Jezzails and has a good few Ratling Guns thrown in. I will say right away that this isn't at all how I envision the army I'm going for, so no worries....

However, as someone just starting off I'd like to know what to avoid, whether it be in terms of numbers or simply beardy units.
I like the whole "warlord clan horde army" idea, and I think that's what I'd like to go for.

So, to wrap this up, if anyone can just tell me what to avoid in an attempt to make a balanced, yet effective, Skaven army, I'd be much obliged.

Baindread
18-01-2006, 00:00
Make any list you want and see what your opponent thinks of it. If he is okay with it, go ahead and play it. Don't pay too much heed to people on internet forums, especially not regarding what kind of army you enjoy playing with. Many would consider what I and my friends often field an abomination of cheese-beardiness or some other description of powergaming. :cheese:

You should though listen to your opponents since it is them you are playing and hear what they think about it.

Grimaldus
18-01-2006, 00:03
I certainly agree with that, Baindread. Very good point and I appreciate ther reply.

I suppose the point of my asking here is just to get an idea or feel for the Skaven before I actually start collecting them. It seems to me that there are a few things that seem almost universally disliked in their army list, and I'm just putting out my feelers to see what those are beforehand.

But at the end of the day, I entirely agree with you.

patataman
18-01-2006, 01:10
the only recomedation as a skaven player xD 1k to 1,9 k 1 ratlingun 2k+ more 2 ratlingun xD


but that how I play ^^ you can play as you whish :D have fun :D

SlaaneshSlave
18-01-2006, 01:20
What really draws the anger is when units of clanrats are just there to deliver the ratling runs. The weapon teams should support your army. Not your units are there to support your guns.

Also, casting warp lightning more than 3 times a turn isn't polite.

Past that, the furry horde is FUN!

Grimaldus
18-01-2006, 15:31
Awesome, thanks to both patataman and SlaaneshSlave!

Okay, so basically I should just take it easy on the Ratling Guns and the Warp Lightning . That doesn't sound too bad.

So what I gather is that some people take smaller sized units of Clanrats merely for the option to load up on Ratling Guns? Lame, I say.

I'm planning on unit sizes of 25-30 for the Clanrats, as I think that's about the most efficient numbers for them, making them big enough to withstand some punishment, and yet not too big so as to become a waste of points and troops.

I do plan on taking a Ratling Gun or two, but I'm not sure....I really like the Warpfire Throwers as well, without even really knowing their rules fully. The concept is pretty cool, if you ask me, and I mean...it's hard to go wrong with a flame thrower of any type in my opinion;) The imagery is just marvelously cool too.

As for Warp Lightning...I can see how it's pretty powerful at times, and that it has the oppurtunity to be overused pretty hardcore. It's a habit I don't plan on falling into, though, as at the moment, I have plans for only one Warlock Engineer.

Pravus
18-01-2006, 16:13
Feel free to use ratling guns but roll the number of dice you intend to fire in one go. There's one Skaven player I know who does this as a point of honour and he garners a lot of respect for doing so. He does it because he believes that's how the rules for ratling guns should work.

Its not always about what you take, but how you play that determines whether you are a powergamer or not. The most evenly balanced army in the world can still be fielded by a complete tool ...

Mad Makz
19-01-2006, 00:20
You can make some fairly hard skaven lists, without going SAD (Shooting army of Death) that will still be very competitive but not make for a static I shoot at you until you die, and if you get to me I die list.

My 'hard' list does take 3 warlocks, one kitted out with the Storm Daemon (but I make sure can only use two dice to cast with rather than fully upgraded), two kitted out with everything, and a Warlord.

I take no Jezzails, and I have 3 units of Clanrats with ratling guns and a unit of stormvermin for my lord. I take 3 units of 12 plaguemonks (champions only, deployed 6 x 2) to get some hitting power, 2 units of slaves for some fodder and a ratswarm.

This army at 2000 points is interactive, tough and powerful. It does have a lot of shooting and magic (3 ratling guns and those warlocks) but can't blow the opposition off the board, I still need to engage to win the game.

This style of list will not get viewed as cheesy generally, because the game won't be over without seeing combat and you are taking the fight to your opponent. You just are doing it in two waves (Slaves and Plague monks, then clanrats and stormvermin) while zapping and shooting where you can.

Any army where your plan is only to roll dice until your opponent dies is going to be boring, and thus cheesy. Make sure your army is interactive, and no matter how it is kitted out your opponents shouldn't have too many complaints.

Brother Edwin
19-01-2006, 00:45
As long as it has no more than 4 wizzards or 3 ratlings it should not be overpowerd.

Grimaldus
19-01-2006, 16:44
Excellent, sounds great guys!

Skitter-Squeek
19-01-2006, 19:28
Grim If you are just starting Out then a good way to go is start out with two units of 30 clan rats. those big units are awsome when fighting other units. grab one ratling gun a cheiften and then what ever else you want to start specialising in your own style of skaven play.


cheiften hand wep sheild heavy armour 51pts

2 unit of thirty clanrats full command and spears 410pts

ratling gun 60pts


that is just a little over 500 points and a good start now you can start picking other cool units as well, I just find most armies no matter what have at least two units of clanrats and a ratling gun and a leader of some sort so can't go wrong there.