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Arselskjut
04-10-2009, 22:09
I'm starting up my World Eater army now with models from ForgeWorld.

But it feels quite strange just to have loads of berzerkers running around, they cost a lot and sure look fine but would it be fluffy correct to ad some tactical csm squads (1-2) with standar Bolter-equipment? Ofc with the worldeater insignia etc and khorne icon. I'm already making raptors, just berzerkers with jumppacks.
Or did the whole legion turn berzerkers during the heresy?:evilgrin::evilgrin:

Lord Damocles
04-10-2009, 22:14
Certainly in the 2nd and 3rd edition lists, Beserkers could be equiped with Bolters (there were even models).

Mannimarco
04-10-2009, 22:22
indeed, although its said that all WE are berserkers not all berserkers are WE or somthing along those lines

the WE are smart enough to appreciate a guy with a bolter or special weapons or even heavy weapons

DuskRaider
04-10-2009, 23:12
I actually have a FW World Eaters army, and I made a squad of not only Tactical Marines, but also Havocs. Why? A.) World Eaters NEED range. There's no other way to put it. And B.) It has been stated in prior fluff that they do use, at the very least, Havocs (Teeth of Khorne). I think it definitely lends another dimension to the Legion. My next project is actually mixing FW World Eater kits and MAXMINI Jump Packs to make Assault Berserkers.

Here's some pics so you can see exactly what the FW kits look like all "Tac'd" out. Haven't gotten around to painting them, so I apologize in advance.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00265-20090815-0113.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00271-20090815-0118.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00269-20090815-0116.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00270-20090815-0117.jpg

Arselskjut
05-10-2009, 00:00
thx for the help and pics.

A question about sergeants, if you chose to take a skulltaker should he have something to destinguish him from the rest? a black helmet? white helmet? What do you suggest? Love the WE story, but havn't read much fluff besides w40k lexicanum and some from csm codex

DuskRaider
05-10-2009, 00:08
I haven't really distinguished mine apart from other World Eaters', but I don't see why you couldn't. then again, mine are in Pre-Heresy scheme. If you're doing Red and Brass, perhaps a black helm would be nice. Although, you wouldn't want someone thinking they're Black Legion (blech!).
I haven't encountered the problem yet, truthfully. All of my Skull Champions have been sans-helms, but I may try out a red helm with white stripe down the middle, similar to what I've seen some Imperial Fist Sergeants wearing (I don't know if this is an IF thing only).

Vaktathi
05-10-2009, 00:32
I'm starting up my World Eater army now with models from ForgeWorld.

But it feels quite strange just to have loads of berzerkers running around, they cost a lot and sure look fine but would it be fluffy correct to ad some tactical csm squads (1-2) with standar Bolter-equipment? Ofc with the worldeater insignia etc and khorne icon. I'm already making raptors, just berzerkers with jumppacks.
Or did the whole legion turn berzerkers during the heresy?:evilgrin::evilgrin:

Basically, from the background and rules provided by the 2E,3E, and 3.5E books, the WE's all sort of fell away from ranged weapon use and took up pistols and CCW's instead. They are all Berzerkers.

Not all Khornate worshippers do this mind you, but the WE's as a result of their Psycho-lobotimization in addition to their devotion to Khorne is what makes them Berzerkers and close combat fiends.

So basically, proper Legion World Eaters would be all berzerkers. Other Khornate space marines however wouldn't necessarily need to be though.

Arselskjut
05-10-2009, 00:59
was thinking about making another heretic legion just to provide my WE with "allies" fluffwise hosting chaos sorcerer and ordinary csm. Even if the primary bulk of the army would be WE.
And all the vehicles connected to the WE-legion etc.

Either black legion (due to Angron being easy persuaded by Horus to join him, but I'm already building Black Templars, and black is quite boring to paint, red is awesome)
or perhaps Alpha Legion, but the question is if they really are traitors or not.
Word bearers would perhaps be nice, just being ordianary csms, but then again, red, I fear I'll get bored of all the red.

Is there any legion especially close to WE besides Sons of Horus/Black Legion?

Mannimarco
05-10-2009, 01:22
not really, theyre psychos who are likely to take a swing at you if theres nothing else to kill, heck they dont even get along with each other

id avoid the sorcerer as well

DuskRaider
05-10-2009, 04:51
Hmm... Well, let's put it this way. Khorne despises Slaanesh due to his excess and self indulgence. Khorne hates Tzeentch due to his reliance on disgraceful tactics, especially the use of sorcery. Khorne seems to hit it off with Nurgle more oft then not, their goals are usually the same, and this is why you'll often times find them making alliances, even if it's temporary. As a rule of thumb, Chaos Gods more or less hate each other.

Vesica
05-10-2009, 05:35
Why not make your own chapter up? it would allow you to be inspired by WE whilst giving you more freedom when it comes to the units you want to use.

Harbinger
05-10-2009, 09:53
was thinking about making another heretic legion just to provide my WE with "allies" fluffwise hosting chaos sorcerer and ordinary csm. Even if the primary bulk of the army would be WE.
And all the vehicles connected to the WE-legion etc.

Either black legion (due to Angron being easy persuaded by Horus to join him, but I'm already building Black Templars, and black is quite boring to paint, red is awesome)
or perhaps Alpha Legion, but the question is if they really are traitors or not.
Word bearers would perhaps be nice, just being ordianary csms, but then again, red, I fear I'll get bored of all the red.

Is there any legion especially close to WE besides Sons of Horus/Black Legion?

Other Primarchs weren't that close to Angron, but any Legion/Renegade Chapter would join them. The World Eaters don't operate as a Legion anymore after the Battle of Skallathrax. They might be less inclined to work alongside Slaanesh Worshippers or Psyker heavy groups.

Depending on how true to background you want to be, and which editions's background you use, I would say Black Legion, Death Guard, Alpha Legion (yes, they are a Traitor Legion), or Iron Warriors (they used to make a good use of Khornate troops), or almost any Renegade Chapter. The other Legions would use Berzerkers, but far less often if you follow the background.

Leftenant Gashrog
05-10-2009, 11:20
Interestingly, the World Eater Tactical Squads in Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness had a heavy weapon but no special weapon.

Vaktathi
05-10-2009, 11:28
Interestingly, the World Eater Tactical Squads in Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness had a heavy weapon but no special weapon.

While true, it's really not entirely relevant in the current fluff. They could also take Shuriken and Jokaero weapons then, and things like Conversion Beamers, along with being T3 with a 4+sv. The list was also really just a cut/paste of the standard SM stuff at the time with a Chaos mark added.

Mannimarco
05-10-2009, 11:58
just thinking, you want your WE theme but you dont want to get bored with all that red, why not make a themed army? its still different WE sub factions, they all still look like WE but have slightly different themes to them? like zhufors forces on vraks?

theres already an existing backstory to them so you dont have to worry about it not being right, you get access to a pretty tough lord level character (zhufor, one of abaddons chosen luitenants) and a bit of variety with colour schemes:

the berserkers of skallathax: basic WE colour, bright red with gold trims

the sanctified: a word bearer faction, use some khornate icons but dont use the WE "bunny helmet" or torso armour, just regular CSM ones, dark red armour with bright silver trims and silver helms

skulltakers: zhufors warband, dark red armour, dark silver trims, bone coloured helmets

Arselskjut
05-10-2009, 13:24
thanks for allt he advice guys, but i'll probably just stick to WE.

But then again, where do i find Lord Zhulfors rules? I own both Siege of vraks vol 5 and 6 and can't find him in any of them.

I would like to have a clean WE army, but will probably mix them up with either black legion of wordbearers. :D

or i go Knights of blood if i dare take the challange of painting such armour =), but especially their insignia would be pain in the ass.

EDit: just found out where he resides; imperial armour 7 =)

Joustarr
05-10-2009, 20:22
I'd say go for it. The original army list had devastators, tactical squads, medics, and techmarines. In 40k you can't kill everyone in close combat. You need heavy firepower to take out big stuff. As long as your killing I don't think Khorne would mind how do did it.

Vaktathi
05-10-2009, 20:46
I'd say go for it. The original army list had devastators, tactical squads, medics, and techmarines. In 40k you can't kill everyone in close combat. You need heavy firepower to take out big stuff. As long as your killing I don't think Khorne would mind how do did it.

Again though, that was in an era where they could also have Shuriken weapons and were T3 with a 4+sv, and didn't have the extensive background they do now. WE's are differentiated from other Khornate warbands by their psycholobotomization surgery in addition to their devotion to Khorne, leading them to fight as close quarters berzerkers basically exclusively. Hence why Berzerkers are different than simple CSM's with an Icon of Khorne.

DuskRaider
06-10-2009, 02:36
You have to wonder, though... How could the World Eaters have survived for so long if they have completely forsaken ranged tactics. I don't think GW put much thought into that.

Vaktathi
06-10-2009, 03:49
You have to wonder, though... How could the World Eaters have survived for so long if they have completely forsaken ranged tactics. I don't think GW put much thought into that.

Most of the fluff doesn't make much sense when you think about it, especially if you stretch things out over 10,000 years (basically double the amount of time since the Pyramids in Egypt were built until now). The Legions should have been ground to nothing, the Space Marines would literally insignificant in terms of power in the greater universe when compared to the mass of the Imperial Guard (yeah, they may be worth 10 or 12 normal human troops, but when they are outnumbered several hundred million to one, who cares?), and the Eldar would be dead.:p

Johnnyfrej
15-11-2009, 21:27
For my current WE army (using the SW rules), I'm using the plastic Berzerker models to represent my Grey Hunters. These guys are the old veterans from the 18th Strike Company (my Lord's old army from the Heresy). I'm going to get around to the FW Berzerkers for my power-armored Wolf Guards to help keep them distinguished. Finially I'm using normal Chaos Marine models for my Blood Claws, Sky Claws and Swift Claws. My reasoning is these are all "FNGs" that are trying to join my Lord's Warband. Since they have yet to prove to be true followers of Khorne, they get saddled with less glorious tasks such as Scouting and Recon.

Talos
17-11-2009, 09:30
Also remember Tac squads in CSM also have a chainsword and BP. I think they are smart enough to use bolters till they get into charge range or if they have to stay back and defend or gather an obj they can use range weapons till they are ready to charge the enemy.

ChrisMurray
17-11-2009, 14:49
If you want to use a pure WE army but include something other than Berzerkers why not just do havoc squads etc in WE colours\logos and just say they are new recruits and not fully converted yet. Sounds about right from a fluff point of view and gives you more choice in support.

Idaan
17-11-2009, 16:46
Why are people saying all World Eaters are Berzerkers? Who drives and repairs their Rhinos, flies their Stormbirds and pilots their spaceships then?

Lord Damocles
17-11-2009, 17:42
Every member of the World Eaters Legion is a Beserker, although not every Beserker originates from that Legion.
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 ed.), pg.29


of course, being classified as a 'Beserker' doesn't automatically mean that you're bat s**t crazy all the time.

Johnnyfrej
17-11-2009, 17:48
of course, being classified as a 'Beserker' doesn't automatically mean that you're bat s**t crazy all the time.
If you thought a Berzerker was scary with just a Chainaxe, you will s**t your pants when you see one behind the wheel of Land Raider.

MarshallSam
17-11-2009, 17:50
To mark out my skull champs I used bits from the possessed sprue. Just a head & arm, but its enough to so that I can distiguish them at a glance.

Unforgiven666
18-11-2009, 02:06
If you thought a Berzerker was scary with just a Chainaxe, you will s**t your pants when you see one behind the wheel of Land Raider.

I just got a mental picture. Hehe!

Mort
18-11-2009, 10:14
well, in fluff terms all WEs are zerkers. But they still recruit members to fill up their losses, so it should be possible to explain your "tactical" WEs by saying that theese are new inducted members that arent as wacky as the rest of the legion. yet.

TheBigBadWolf
18-11-2009, 13:09
I actually have a FW World Eaters army, and I made a squad of not only Tactical Marines, but also Havocs. Why? A.) World Eaters NEED range. There's no other way to put it. And B.) It has been stated in prior fluff that they do use, at the very least, Havocs (Teeth of Khorne). I think it definitely lends another dimension to the Legion. My next project is actually mixing FW World Eater kits and MAXMINI Jump Packs to make Assault Berserkers.

Here's some pics so you can see exactly what the FW kits look like all "Tac'd" out. Haven't gotten around to painting them, so I apologize in advance.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00265-20090815-0113.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00271-20090815-0118.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00269-20090815-0116.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/DuskRaider/IMG00270-20090815-0117.jpg

loving those conversions, I have always held on to the idea that Khorne would allow ranged weapons, blood spilled is blood spilled :evilgrin:

Hasan ibn Sabbah
18-11-2009, 13:58
As far as I remember, Khorne loves BIG, short-range, guns. It was said in BF: Gothic I think. + Bolters make target "pop" or makes hudge bloody holes, so he should be sattisfied... but remember, no headshots!

Draegon
17-11-2011, 20:52
My next project is actually mixing FW World Eater kits and MAXMINI Jump Packs to make Assault Berserkers.


Snap! Though have just noticed that this was 2 years ago! Any progression with them?

DuskRaider
18-11-2011, 14:47
Snap! Though have just noticed that this was 2 years ago! Any progression with them?

Unfortunately, I've since sold the army to a friend of mine. I needed to put y attention toward my Death Guard, and with the FW Pre-Heresy bits, it gave me the motivation to concentrate on them again. I've also recently started a Night Lords army using the FW pieces as well, but I won't lie... I still regret selling the World Eaters, and someday I may redo them using the FW WE kits coupled with the Pre-Heresy kits. I'm a bit of a fluff / historical nut, lol.

Col. Tartleton
18-11-2011, 15:09
As far as I remember, Khorne loves BIG, short-range, guns. It was said in BF: Gothic I think. + Bolters make target "pop" or makes hudge bloody holes, so he should be sattisfied... but remember, no headshots!

Yeah pop is the right word. It's basically a miniature frag missile that blows your chest inside out.

BrainFireBob
20-11-2011, 00:12
You have to wonder, though... How could the World Eaters have survived for so long if they have completely forsaken ranged tactics. I don't think GW put much thought into that.

They're employed, and rarely operate on their own. When they do, they use Daemons and more importantly, Daemon Engines. Papa Khorne takes care of that nasty-wasty tanky-***** for them. SKULLZ FOR KHORNE!

baphomael
20-11-2011, 00:27
Whose to say that all 'Berzerkers' in the WE legion are axe crazy maniacs? Perhaps, rather, there are those who are dakka crazy, who love the gory mess a bolt round makes of it's target's insides.

Look at Orks - plenty of Orks prefer choppy choppy death, but there are equally those who prefer the loud noisy violence of gunning down a foe with some obscene gun.

Nevertheless, ranged WE's would probably favour close ranged fire fights so they could relish the effect of their messy weapons all the better.


It terms of ranged weapons, for thematic reasons I'd probably go with the ones that cause the bloodiest, messiest, death - bolters, certainly. Perhaps missile launchers. Flamers...perhaps...they are brutal and messy, but I'm not sure they evoke the 'spill blood... blood... BLOOD!!' - spilling blood and creating rivers of gore is a religious experience.

More clinical weapons like las, plas or melta might not be so appropriate, as they would vaporise the target without really spilling that much blood.

So basically, stuff that creates a bloody mess is good.

Colonel Custer
22-11-2011, 01:34
I have an ancient squad of World Eaters (all metal all lead) that are equipped with bolters. In the early days of the hobby World Eaters were not as fixated on in your face hth as much.

Colonel Custer
22-11-2011, 01:41
I just got off a conference call with Captain Kharn who if I may quote said "Kill maim burn. Kill maim burn. Kill maim burn. Kill maim burn. Kill Maim Burn!!! Kill maim, hold up what do you mean Gossip Girl is on the tele, gotta go, oh yeah Blood for the Blood God!!!!"

Wyrmwood
22-11-2011, 06:52
Whose to say that all 'Berzerkers' in the WE legion are axe crazy maniacs? Perhaps, rather, there are those who are dakka crazy, who love the gory mess a bolt round makes of it's target's insides.

Look at Orks - plenty of Orks prefer choppy choppy death, but there are equally those who prefer the loud noisy violence of gunning down a foe with some obscene gun.

Nevertheless, ranged WE's would probably favour close ranged fire fights so they could relish the effect of their messy weapons all the better.


It terms of ranged weapons, for thematic reasons I'd probably go with the ones that cause the bloodiest, messiest, death - bolters, certainly. Perhaps missile launchers. Flamers...perhaps...they are brutal and messy, but I'm not sure they evoke the 'spill blood... blood... BLOOD!!' - spilling blood and creating rivers of gore is a religious experience.

More clinical weapons like las, plas or melta might not be so appropriate, as they would vaporise the target without really spilling that much blood.

So basically, stuff that creates a bloody mess is good.
omg reed ur fluff, fool!11 :rolleyes: we r csm, not orcs lol
[/fanboy]

That aside, there is the Teeth of Khorne - World Eaters, or simply Khornate Space Marines, armed with heavy weapons. That piece seems to be antiquated in comparison to the somewhat one-dimensional portrayal of Khorne and Chaos in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Ultimately, I suppose that it depends on how far the Space Marine has fallen. A World Eater is unlikely to use a heavy weapon for long, but a Khornate Space Marine certainly would - unless he has fully succumbed to Khorne. If it's anything like the Black Rage or Red Thirst (and it is...), there would be ways to keep it in check - assuming the Space Marine/s desired to.

Roberkhan
22-11-2011, 07:46
Yes, please, don't let last editions' oversimplification fool you. Khorne is the God of Anger, Destruction, War, Hatred and so forth. Not just the God of Axes. We should assume that His Berzerkers are not only hacking loonies, as they can plan, communicate, socialize, work in team, etc. In 2nd, even Kharn could lead small warbands with a high strategic rating. He could as well kill his allies at any moment, but anyway he was a commander. A good one, not just a "Charge from the front and killm, maim, burn everything in your path" kind of.
All in all, I vote for World Eaters still being Space Marines, not just retarded Texas Chainsaw Massacre psychos. Well, a mix of both. :)

Lord Lorne Walkier
22-11-2011, 08:55
You have to wonder, though... How could the World Eaters have survived for so long if they have completely forsaken ranged tactics. I don't think GW put much thought into that.

Well i have that answer.... They Cheat. The Chaos Gods stack the deck for their favored pawns.

You might feel that the World Eaters would need sensible tactics like the use of ranged weapons to cover the advance of their assault troops. I'm sure Roboute Guilliman had that conversation with Angron. The Chaos goods get around this buy having a bloody fog roll in to cover a assault. Maybe they have half the defenders army rebel at the right time. In the Chaos that follows the bezerkers close to assault range quicker then the defenders can react.

99% of World Eaters are Bezerkers like 99% of Thousand Sons are Dust in a suit. They have no tactical flexibility left. 10k years in the Eye of Terra and the butchers Nail saw to that.

TheRedAngel
22-11-2011, 20:02
In 2nd, even Kharn could lead small warbands with a high strategic rating. He could as well kill his allies at any moment, but anyway he was a commander. A good one, not just a "Charge from the front and killm, maim, burn everything in your path" kind of.
Well, high strategic rating is relative.
Khârn had one of 3, your average marine captain had 5 (which was top of the class IIRC).
So no complete lunatic, but probably not the most tactical commander around.

But yes, even the current codex chaos tells us that Worldeaters aren't just running around screaming all the time.
On the page opposite to Khârns entry in the codex there is a story about a Worldeater squad that takes cover in a building from artillery/heavy weapons fire, makes tactical assessments and plans to wait with their charge till the enemy is reloading.
Doesn't save them from destruction but still, they try...

KharnTheBetrayer01
22-11-2011, 20:30
I seem to recall the old rule book specifically using Kharn as an example of someone who would be considered "Bad" at leading men. Can't for the life of me remember the context, possibly it was a brief chat about HQ's and their relative uses. Creed being a "low damage output, high support" leader and Kharn being a "High damage output, low support" leader, or something like that.

Kakapo42
22-11-2011, 23:27
I seem to recall the old rule book specifically using Kharn as an example of someone who would be considered "Bad" at leading men. Can't for the life of me remember the context, possibly it was a brief chat about HQ's and their relative uses. Creed being a "low damage output, high support" leader and Kharn being a "High damage output, low support" leader, or something like that.

I believe you're referring to the part about Special Characters. It was something along the lines of "Special Characters come in many shapes and sizes. For example Commissar Yarrik is a bold and inspiring leader, while Kharn the Betrayer is a bloody minded butcher who only cares about personal combat (which, admittedly, he excells at). Both of these characters would make awesome choices for your army".

Roberkhan
23-11-2011, 08:47
Well, high strategic rating is relative.
Khârn had one of 3, your average marine captain had 5 (which was top of the class IIRC).
So no complete lunatic, but probably not the most tactical commander around.

But yes, even the current codex chaos tells us that Worldeaters aren't just running around screaming all the time.
On the page opposite to Khârns entry in the codex there is a story about a Worldeater squad that takes cover in a building from artillery/heavy weapons fire, makes tactical assessments and plans to wait with their charge till the enemy is reloading.
Doesn't save them from destruction but still, they try...

Hehe, 3 was one point over the average Guard and Squat commander, on par with Orks! Not that bad after all. OK, strategy rating rule was not the best rule ever.;)
I remember the story you mean. Nice comparation between regular art of war and Khârn's one. And yes, there you see Berzerkers making plans.