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Lusall
06-10-2009, 21:14
So, I had this idea. I want to make a Fremen based Space Marine army but I'm not sure which codex to use to do this. (Basicly, which would represent them the best)

Now, the color scheme is posted.

They'll be based on a desert world, and they'll be mostly based on the Fremen, but they'll have some Sardaukar elements too.

So my thoughts were: the new Space Wolf codex. The psyker powers could easily work for a desert theme. (Storm caller, for instance as their are deadly sand storms on the planet.) And the Grey Hunters would do well to represent the furry of the Desert people and their adaptability. (They've got guns which, while not big in Dune fits with 40K) Counter attack, basicly.

Single Thunderwolf models could represent the Fedaykin. Wolf claws representing their skill with knives. Or Frost blade to represent sword masters or something like that.

Similar situation with lone wolves.

Now...my other thought was the Chaos Marine codex. Korn Beserkers would make great Fremen-like space marines.

I could equip the lord with the mark of Slaanesh and give him the bless giver (as well as a steed of slaanesh) and use that to represent a Fremen "hero/swordmaster".

Anyway...those are my thoughts, but I want to know what others have to say. Especially fellow Dune fanatics. :evilgrin:

Col. Tartleton
07-10-2009, 02:25
I had a chapter idea I never fully developed called the Splendid Suns or "Atomic Angels" as their enemies called them (Nukes being seen as a bad bad thing by the Imperium for whatever reason. Their symbol is a stylized red mushroom cloud on gleaming white plate and they have a thing for nukes (think DKoK) which is why they are the "Spendid Suns." Their planet was scourged by nukes and is now a wasteland (Tallarn II?) They're white scars geneseed and are led by a Khagan and a council of Khans (elected officials who rotate in and out of command based on the scenario on the ground due to a fluid command structure where each marine is essentially an independent soldier.

They're fierce Pashtun warriors with a bad habit of killing their allies alongside their enemies for their "corruption" and "immoral heresies." I steered clear of terrorists and tried to make them pure warriors of the desert. They could probably get some more Dune influence.

To be honest, Dune books are tedious to read (So I read like a chapter a week) and I'm 2/3s through the first book which is started several months ago (which is probably why they're considered the science fiction equivalent of the lord of the rings)

madprophet
07-10-2009, 02:48
The Fremen were a lightly armored, light infantry force that specialized in hit and run tactics. Codex Imperial Guard probably is a better fit than Codex Space Marines but if you want to go with Space Marines I would recommend a lot of scouts - the Fremen didn't have a lot of fancy power armor.

DarkMatter2
07-10-2009, 02:50
1. Yeah, I was going to say that Codex IG was better used for modeling Fremen.

2. Col Tarleton that is a sweet idea for a SM chapter.

Fobster
07-10-2009, 06:06
I had a chapter idea I never fully developed called the Splendid Suns or "Atomic Angels" as their enemies called them (Nukes being seen as a bad bad thing by the Imperium for whatever reason. Their symbol is a stylized red mushroom cloud on gleaming white plate and they have a thing for nukes (think DKoK) which is why they are the "Spendid Suns." Their planet was scourged by nukes and is now a wasteland (Tallarn II?) They're white scars geneseed and are led by a Khagan and a council of Khans (elected officials who rotate in and out of command based on the scenario on the ground due to a fluid command structure where each marine is essentially an independent soldier.

They're fierce Pashtun warriors with a bad habit of killing their allies alongside their enemies for their "corruption" and "immoral heresies." I steered clear of terrorists and tried to make them pure warriors of the desert. They could probably get some more Dune influence.

To be honest, Dune books are tedious to read (So I read like a chapter a week) and I'm 2/3s through the first book which is started several months ago (which is probably why they're considered the science fiction equivalent of the lord of the rings)
The fire hawks originally had a nuke cloud as thier chapter symbol.

Black templars would be better for a free man army. with the mix of armour types and the more warband like sturcture.

InquisitorNiels
07-10-2009, 07:22
Land Raiders could be the worms, or maybe drop pods since IIRC they never really fight off the worms, just use them to get around. But yea, besides the way you paint on model your army SM are a hard fit. Can't really see where bikes, dreadnoughts, or jump packs would really fit in, or tanks really. It's been awhile since I have read the first few books but I don't remember any tanks being used...maybe a modified spice harvester?

P.S
Maybe those flying things (totally forget what they are called, ornothopter or something) could be land speeders.

Iuris
07-10-2009, 07:30
Just wondering, Why are you stuffing light skirmishers into clumsy power armor?

Really, if you want an army based upon Fremen, try some other codex. I'd actually consider Eldar, due to their Ranger troops and close combat specialists.

If you really want a Space marine chapter with a Dune theme, they you'd have a standard marine chapter with standard gear and the Fremen influence would be only in the graphic design. So, a desert-like color scheme, curved daggers on each belt, some worm teeth all around and so on.

Lothlanathorian
07-10-2009, 07:48
Just because they are inspiration doesn't mean they have to be exact. He wants Space Marines based on Fremen. I actually was thinking about doing the same thing.

The way I would like at is less Space Marine = Fremen and more Arrakis & Fremen = Space Marine world & population they recruit from.

So, instead of making your Space Marines into Fremen, make your Fremen into Space Marines.

I was thinking, for mine, I would have used the color green in the heraldry rather prominently as green was the color of death. Space Wolves or Codex Marines would both work fine depending on how you wanted to have them function.

If you were to use SW rules, you would need to explain more than if you used regular Codex Marines. Blood Claws because young Fremen males are headstrong and aggressive, never ones to back down from a challenge. Wolf Scouts because Fremen are excellent scout/ambushers. Grey Hunters are just your normal dudes. Wolf Guard are just your veterans. Don't use Thunderwolves or Fenrisian wolves. Name things like 'Wyrmfang' instead of Frost Blade and such.


And if you used Chaos Marines to be your Fremen, well...I might have to slap you, sir. Not in a mean, nasty way, but in a 'Get ahold of yourself, man!' kind of way :p

Makiaveli
07-10-2009, 16:37
Just because they are inspiration doesn't mean they have to be exact. He wants Space Marines based on Fremen. I actually was thinking about doing the same thing.

The way I would like at is less Space Marine = Fremen and more Arrakis & Fremen = Space Marine world & population they recruit from.

So, instead of making your Space Marines into Fremen, make your Fremen into Space Marines.

Is what I was wanting to say, but put better :)

grissom2006
07-10-2009, 16:39
More suited to being a Imperial Guard unit than Marines. If your going down the Dune route pick the Emperors Legions instead.

Askil the Undecided
07-10-2009, 16:52
Yeah if you're a Dune freak (and if you've read it of watched it and aren't, why not?) and want a Dune-themed SM army you'd be better off with Sardukar. The ruthless, fearless, highly disciplined & utterly deadly elite of the Imperial armed forces.

Same s**t, different Imperium.

Lothlanathorian
07-10-2009, 19:03
But the Fremen would make an excellent source of Space Marine recruits.

Askil the Undecided
07-10-2009, 20:16
But the Fremen would make an excellent source of Space Marine recruits.

Not really, they have rather too much of a preoccupation with freedom to be enslaved in such a manner. As the Dune series clearly shows in fact.

Darkstar2586
07-10-2009, 20:24
Unless through wanting their freedom they decided some elite warriors are to become marines to secure the future of others defending what they believe.

marv335
07-10-2009, 20:29
Frankly, for Fremen, I'd use Dark Eldar.
Much better for it.

Bubbatron
07-10-2009, 20:53
there is a forum around where someone made a whole fremen army from eldar and other bits

here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Fremen_Army_Pt.1

and here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249238.page

Lothlanathorian
07-10-2009, 21:19
Unless through wanting their freedom they decided some elite warriors are to become marines to secure the future of others defending what they believe.

Very much. So, really, it is all about how you write up the backstory of your Chapter. Whether they be SW rules or Codex. At the end, some of their youth are chosen to be the Hand of Shai-Hulud. How is that anything other than glorious?

Slyck
07-10-2009, 21:20
What weapon would you use for a weirding module.

*ducks*

Dexter099
07-10-2009, 22:42
I can't say that the Fremen wore much armor, but they certainly did have Holtzmann shields.

EDIT: 2 posts till 1000!

shrimplor
07-10-2009, 22:46
Frankly, for Fremen, I'd use Dark Eldar.
Much better for it.

I agree. Wyches would work well. The Fremen specialized in quick and merciless strikes against the Harkonnen (sp?), much like the DE. Also, the DE have less emphasis on warmachines. I don't recall the Fremen using many vehicles aside from the ornithopters (and shai-hulud of course;)). The fish speakers were more like a regular army, but the all-female aspect would be hard to do in 40k.

p.s. You mentioned the possible use of CSM for the Fremen also. The only thing i could think when I read that was Leto II = Changer of ways.

DarkMatter2
08-10-2009, 01:29
Frankly, for Fremen, I'd use Dark Eldar.
Much better for it.

Actually, yeah. That is a great idea.

Lusall
08-10-2009, 01:57
What weapon would you use for a weirding module.

*ducks*

Get out of my thread! :p

But in all seriousness... I thank everyone for the feedback. :) It's been helping a lot.

@Lothlanathorian
That's a better way of putting it. That's kinda what I was going for. The home planet is desert like and they recruit from the population. (which make great warriors) but I'm trying to mix in the Sarduakar. i.e. they all strive to be swordmasters and all that. And though they're space marines, they keep a lot of traditions from their home world. i.e. they -hate- motorised vehicles and most machines. They're not fans of the Adeptus Mechanicus. (For a lot of reasons, like they worship a "false" version of the emperor.) And yeah, don't worry...I'm moving away from the Chaos dex. :D

My friend recomended I use Dark Eldar...and the idea is somewhat tempting, but I'd rather keep with Marines. (just not a (dark)Eldar fan.)
The Imperial Guard idea has alos crossed my mind, and I might be doing that...

@Dexter099
That's been another idea of mine... maybe say their armor saves are from the shields? Though I don't want to do -too- much "counts as" stuff. Just a little. :)

@Askil the Undecided
I'm probably the biggest Dune freak I know. :evilgrin: I've read -all- the Dune books at least twice. (including the ones his son wrote) and though as the first poster said, some of them are tedious...I enjoy the hell out of it. And like you said, I'd be bringing in a more Sarduakar theme. They come from a free tribal society, but they strive to become "warriors of the gods" and that's when they become more Corino-imperialish.

Anywo...thanks for the ideas everyone. :D Anymore ideas would be fantastic.

Lothlanathorian
08-10-2009, 07:48
....
@Lothlanathorian
That's a better way of putting it. That's kinda what I was going for. The home planet is desert like and they recruit from the population. (which make great warriors) but I'm trying to mix in the Sarduakar. i.e. they all strive to be swordmasters and all that. And though they're space marines, they keep a lot of traditions from their home world. i.e. they -hate- motorised vehicles and most machines. They're not fans of the Adeptus Mechanicus. (For a lot of reasons, like they worship a "false" version of the emperor.) And yeah, don't worry...I'm moving away from the Chaos dex. :D
....
@Askil the Undecided
I'm probably the biggest Dune freak I know. :evilgrin: I've read -all- the Dune books at least twice. (including the ones his son wrote) and though as the first poster said, some of them are tedious...I enjoy the hell out of it. And like you said, I'd be bringing in a more Sarduakar theme. They come from a free tribal society, but they strive to become "warriors of the gods" and that's when they become more Corino-imperialish.

Anywo...thanks for the ideas everyone. :D Anymore ideas would be fantastic.

What you said there to Askil is what I was thinking and what I had thought about when I considered doing Fremen based Marines. I wasn't thinking 'counts-as' at all. I was thinking 'If a Space Marine Chapter were to recruit almost exclusively from Fremen, what would that Chapter be like?'

I think that is what 97.68543% of the people don't seem to want to think. I just don't think anyone wants to mix their chocolate with their peanut butter.

The Fremen and Dune have a lot of very good qualities a Chapter would look at. Dune is a Death World, so anyone who can thrive there is already hard as a Maker's scales. The Fremen themselves are excellent warriors, which, of course, the Marines would be looking for. They are also very religious and devout people (for the most part, which can be true of any Imperial civilization in 40K).

Condottiere
08-10-2009, 08:05
If Marines can ride Wolves into battle, they can ride Sandworms.

Lothlanathorian
08-10-2009, 08:25
If Marines can ride Wolves into battle, they can ride Sandworms.

As ever with the apt logic :D

InquisitorNiels
08-10-2009, 14:46
I don't think the original post made it clear what his idea was. From what I read he wanted to make Fremen Space Marines, not Space Marines from Fremen.

A planet like Dune would be great for hardy IG, as well as some top notch SM recruits. Anyone who has read the books would agree for the most part. I just cant see Fremen SM, but as you said I could certainly see SM from Fremen.

P.S

I love my chocolate and peanut butter, separate or together!

N810
08-10-2009, 15:07
Here's some cool reference material,
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1646556&highlight=dune#post1646556
Thank Malka next time you see him. ;)

Lothlanathorian
08-10-2009, 17:53
I don't think the original post made it clear what his idea was. From what I read he wanted to make Fremen Space Marines, not Space Marines from Fremen.

A planet like Dune would be great for hardy IG, as well as some top notch SM recruits. Anyone who has read the books would agree for the most part. I just cant see Fremen SM, but as you said I could certainly see SM from Fremen.

P.S

I love my chocolate and peanut butter, separate or together!

It wasn't obvious either way from the original post, this is true. I guess I can admit I read it through my own tinted shades.

I just see so many times where someone will want to do something by using something else as inspiration and everyone is like 'No, you're doing it wrong,' and that smacks of wrong to me. Granted, it wasn't bad at all here, but I wanted to find a way to make it work with the Marines. And I do agree, if you wanted a Fremen army or a 'counts-as' army, then Marines are not the way to go. If you want Marines that recruit Fremen, well, that is what I am thinking about.

And it is a fun way to mix everyone's two favorite things Dune and Speessss Muhreeenz! :p

madprophet
08-10-2009, 20:51
40k in general adapts well to the Dune-a-verse (Dune was a major inspiration of 40k). The Great Houses are there, the Spacing Guild errr... I mean the Navis Noblite, the Bene Geserit... errr... Daughters of the Emperor, the Sardukar or Speesss Muhreenz, the household armies - Imperial Guard and so on.

I use the template of a Great House as the basis for my Guard Army. It's a great idea to use Dune stuff in 40k.

I guess the first call you have to make is whether you want a Fremen ported into 40k or Space Marines who are Fremen.

Codex Dark Eldar makes for a good Fremen style force - I would used Tallarn Guardsmen as regular troopers, Wyches would be Feydakin, Orthonopters instead of Raiders. Jet bikes would be appropriate for Fremen as is. Loose the S&M imagery and think Arab Revolt against the Ottomans.

If you want Space Marines out of Fremen - Either SM or CSM codex will do (I would lean towards CSM - Mark of Khorne) or maybe Blood Angels as a basis with the Fremen background being the source for imagery and markings.

Post what you come up with online - I did an Arabesque CSM marine army you can see the fluff on my website (link is in my sig). If you need a place to host it, I can give you some web space.

Condottiere
09-10-2009, 04:52
I have yet to see Adepta Sororitas attempt to seduce targeted Nobility in order influence the flow of history. They seem more Fish Speakers than Bene Gesserit.

Lothlanathorian
09-10-2009, 04:57
I don't think 40K has a direct correlation to the Bene Gesserit. Or an indirect, for that matter.

DarkMatter2
09-10-2009, 05:54
I don't think 40K has a direct correlation to the Bene Gesserit. Or an indirect, for that matter.

The Adepta Sororitas are actually a decent-ish correlation, especially when you consider that some of them are trained to be consorts to important men, etc.

But it isn't as spot on a comparison as say Navigators or God-Emperors. The Emperor is definitely very Muad'dib like.

I would go as far as to say that Dune was THE major initial inspiration for the 40k universe.

Sekhmet
09-10-2009, 06:05
40k in general adapts well to the Dune-a-verse (Dune was a major inspiration of 40k). The Great Houses are there, the Spacing Guild errr... I mean the Navis Noblite, the Bene Geserit... errr... Daughters of the Emperor, the Sardukar or Speesss Muhreenz, the household armies - Imperial Guard and so on.


Dune wasn't the only inspiration for 40k. The Bene Gesserit are almost nothing like the Daughters of the Emperor, except that they're both female organizations. The Sororitas are actually decently close to the Fish Speakers as mentioned earlier, but with major differences too.

And the Sardaukar and Astartes are almost nothing alike. Yes, both are fanatical, elite soldiers. That isn't uncommon in reality or fiction. The defining traits of the Astartes are their genetic enhancements to such a degree that they aren't really human and their power armor, neither of which the Sardaukar have.

DarkMatter2
09-10-2009, 06:14
Yeah, the Space Marines, at least in their initial appearances, were much more Mobile Infantry Starship Troopers than Sardaukar, with a hint of totalitarian stormtroopers thrown in.

The Sardaukar's closest analogues would be something like the Death Korps of Krieg.

InquisitorNiels
09-10-2009, 06:18
I would use Worms as raiders, because IIRC raiders are fast, lightly armoured with very little guns on it. I don't really remember the Fremen using Orthonopters all that much but it has been a while since I have read the first book.

I don't think the Bene-Gesserit would work all that well on the table, maybe in the background but I could never see them fielding an army of pure Bene-Gesserit.

Anyway it's a sweet idea and this tread has reminded me how much I love Dune! I think it's time to find it and start the whole series again. I also think I will be working small bits of Dune into my Night Lord's fluff, and maybe a bit into the elite section of my growing army. Curved blades for my lighting claws, milky white of course, maybe a blind deamon prince with warp time...yes I can see it coming together now!

Lothlanathorian
09-10-2009, 08:51
The Adepta Sororitas are actually a decent-ish correlation, especially when you consider that some of them are trained to be consorts to important men, etc.

But it isn't as spot on a comparison as say Navigators or God-Emperors. The Emperor is definitely very Muad'dib like.

I would go as far as to say that Dune was THE major initial inspiration for the 40k universe.

They train their nuns to be whores where? I am not the most up to date on my Sororitas fluff, but where does it say that any of them are trained as consorts? This may be something I've missed or forgotten, but, either way, I am unaware of it.

And I really need to finish God Emperor of Dune, damn it lol. I am reading through them for the first time and haven't yet finished that one. I've gotten lazy.


And I would love to see an 'counts-as' army of Fremen. I don't care what list is used to write it, but so long as it works, I am happy. I think IG would work pretty well for it.

Now, just because I actually want this discussion to happen, let us pretend that Arrakis is an Imperial world and that it is used by a Space Marine Chapter to recruit from. What do you think this Chapter would be like?

Sekhmet
09-10-2009, 09:13
I would go as far as to say that Dune was THE major initial inspiration for the 40k universe.

Dune or Foundation or the Roman Empire.

Considering Dune was based on Foundation, which was based on The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

InquisitorNiels
10-10-2009, 05:05
I just see so many times where someone will want to do something by using something else as inspiration and everyone is like 'No, you're doing it wrong,' and that smacks of wrong to me.

I totally agree, people love to say "No, you can't do that!" when ever someone comes up with an idea that is a little bit off the beaten path, or GW has not said "this is how it is".

I truly dislike this way of thinking because it really limits the fun of what can be 40k. I like all aspect of the hobby, from the lore, painting and gaming. More importantly I like to let them all intersect. My Night Lords have there own bit of fluff, even if its all just in my head for the most part, and that shapes the way I model and paint my army, as well as how I construct my lists and play them on the table top.

I don't use plague marines (or any cult troops), obliterators, or lash princes. I keep my army mobile, either in a transport on deep striking/scouting. So far my list has not been all that great but I keep it true to the fluff so I'm happy. With practice I'm sure I can manage a few wins :p

Lusall
10-10-2009, 05:54
Wow! Glad to get such a positive response to this. :D But again, I apologize. My first post didn't make my intentions clear...

I want to stick to 40K, fluffwise. (i.e. they're not -really- Freman from Arrakis)

So far...I've about come to the conclusion that Codex Space Wolves comes the closest to what I want.

I use wolf claws to represent crysknives. Frost blade=a war sword used by sword masters.

Wolfguard=Fedaykin. And I'm working on the rest.

But it's still not out of the question for codex Chaos marines. (Lash prince could represent the voice?)

I'll be posting the first couple of images of the test models as soon as I can figure this internets thing out.

Thanks all!

Lothlanathorian
10-10-2009, 07:33
Don't do Chaos!! They is evil! If you do, you're doing it wrong :p


Whatever you choose to use, I look forward to seeing the models.