PDA

View Full Version : what would happen if GW started selling pre-painted models?



MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 03:07
to clarify, the question is WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF GW STARTED SELLING PRE-PAINTED MODELS WHILE CONTINUING TO SELL UNPAINTED MODELS?

I'm more into the fluff than the game, but I wonder what you hobbyists think of this...
I don't think GW would ever stop selling unpainted models, but what do you think would happen if GW started selling a painted range of models along with unpainted models?

do you think overall sales would increase? would offering a painted range increase profits for GW in the long-run?
would simultaneously selling painted and unpainted products spell the doom of painting as part of the hobby? Of course, GW could limit painted models to special characters and such
but do you guys think selling some painted models would get a lot more people into the game (as I always thought the amount money, time and effort it takes to paint was always a big barrier for people who might be interested)

Mánagarmr
08-10-2009, 03:11
That's a really tough question.

I think it would probably boost sales somewhat, and make it slightly easier to break friends into the hobby. (I know a lot of people using models who have never been more than base-coated) I can't speak for other wargamers though, and it's entirely possible it might put-off some of the more artistic, and creative types this hobby attracts.

I guess in my rambling, my response is I have no idea. :confused:

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 03:13
I guess some people might think that even offering a partial range of painted models would be betraying the spirit of the hobby or something like that?

kultz
08-10-2009, 03:15
It would generate a short-term increase in people getting into the game.

After a while, folks will die out.

The 'hardcore' people won't stay because the game would be too 'children-oriented and not serious enough for the sophisticated adult audience'.

The kids won't stay because wargaming is not nearly as immediately rewarding as other forms of gaming.

Lose-lose.

Edonil
08-10-2009, 03:15
I'd hate it. The problem with pre-painted models is that they also need to be pre-assembled, and building my models is part of what I most enjoy about the hobby, not playing the game. I'd probably not buy from GW anymore. I grabbed some old Rackham minis, and loved building and painting them, but since they started focusing on pre-painted, I haven't bought a single thing from them.

e2055261
08-10-2009, 03:20
Inevitably the quality would suffer. I think that it would put more people off than on.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 03:22
It would generate a short-term increase in people getting into the game.

After a while, folks will die out.

The 'hardcore' people won't stay because the game would be too 'children-oriented and not serious enough for the sophisticated adult audience'.

The kids won't stay because wargaming is not nearly as immediately rewarding as other forms of gaming.

Lose-lose.


I'd hate it. The problem with pre-painted models is that they also need to be pre-assembled, and building my models is part of what I most enjoy about the hobby, not playing the game. I'd probably not buy from GW anymore. I grabbed some old Rackham minis, and loved building and painting them, but since they started focusing on pre-painted, I haven't bought a single thing from them.

but I did mention that GW would still be selling unpainted un-assembled models along with the painted ones...or would your answers still be the same?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
08-10-2009, 03:25
but I did mention that GW would still be selling unpainted un-assembled models along with the painted ones...or would your answers still be the same?

Well, the fact is that they would do one or the other, there's no way they'd do both. And it would kill Warhammer in the long run.

solkan
08-10-2009, 03:28
Let's see, what would I expect to happen...

In order to offer pre-painted figures, GW would either have to cut back on other releases or borrow additional money to expand beyond its current new release schedule. Borrowing is unlikely in the current economy, so the release of pre-painted figures would necessarily come at the expense of expanding the regular lines.

As a result of the cutting back on expanding lines, GW's schedule for updating codices would slow down. This would happen because new codices have almost always been accompanied by new or revised models for those armies.

I'll just stop there. I don't see any way of it happening unless GW licensed the pre-painted scheme to a third party or they somehow ditched a major product line like LOTR/WOTR.

If a person doesn't like painting, there are plenty of relatively inexpensive painting services which will handle all of the bothersome painting and assembly for a modest fee.

darker4308
08-10-2009, 03:35
I've done a decent amount of work in this area and what and I think would have to happen if pre-painted minis were to become big would be some form of mechanical painting. You could not for example just dope the plastic with a pigment as was done with the space hulk minis. It would be a massive undertaking to create a new technology capable of this type of fine control. I think in the next 50 years we might see warhammer produced at stores and homes on demand with rapid type prototyping (RTP), but painting is a little too specialized.

Alternatively, GW could also just open large sweatshops in in the far east. I believe Mageknight came painted this way and the standard of the work was quite poor. Though, I would not be surprised if warhammer could turn a profit on selling painted armies...it's an aspect of business that I think they want to leave to the private sector for very good reasons.

EDIT : For the record. I would love to see the sale of pre-painted warhammer. I think it would make the game a lot of faster. It won't happen though.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 03:36
Borrowing is unlikely in the current economy, so the release of pre-painted figures would necessarily come at the expense of expanding the regular lines.

let's just assume GW decides to do this when the economy isn't in the dumps

ntin
08-10-2009, 03:39
Considering the cost of un-painted and un-assembled models could Gamesworkshop produce ready to play models at a price that could attract the impulse buy? As well as the model count for a medium sized game Warhammer itself may mechanically be too large to support such a convince compared to games like AT-43.

Imperius
08-10-2009, 03:47
It would take the heart and spirit out of the game. What point is there on spending so much money on models and not working with them except to make terrain and/or play with them?
Atleast when you paint a 2,000 point army it will take you the better part of a year to finish it.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 03:47
is it impossible to have painted, un-assembled models?

you still glue them together but the parts are already painted

Troah
08-10-2009, 03:55
It would take the fun out of buying the models. Painting them is the best part IMO.


is it impossible to have painted, un-assembled models?

you still glue them together but the parts are already painted


Yes?
I paint my models un-assembled.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 04:02
Yes?
I paint my models un-assembled.

that's not what I meant, I was replying to this



could Gamesworkshop produce ready to play models at a price that could attract the impulse buy?

I was asking why GW can't produce models that are un-assembled but already painted

Troah
08-10-2009, 04:05
I was asking why GW can't produce models that are un-assembled but already painted

Ah....Yes...

solkan
08-10-2009, 04:10
The various giant robot kits can be made in multiple colors, sure. And presumably you could get passable results from spray guns painting sprues.

There's another additional unknown which is how much of Games Workshop's income comes from hobby supplies such as paint, basing kits, extra parts, and so on. I can't really see there being any appreciable add on sales for all of those parts of the GW line, and that would impact GW's profit. If there's no hobby aspect, then there'd be less retention as well, and I can't see that having a positive impact on sales.

Personally, I don't even like the current snap fit figures, so I wouldn't be interested in the pre-painted stuff. Who knows, GW might be watching the sales of their snap-fit boxes and if sales cross the appropriate threshold then they might try multi-color snap fit or some other version of pre-paint.

Incognito
08-10-2009, 04:26
to clarify, the question is WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF GW STARTED SELLING PRE-PAINTED MODELS WHILE CONTINUING TO SELL UNPAINTED MODELS?


Madness and ruin.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 04:28
personally I don't think it would be horrible idea

casual gamers or people who just want to collect for "cool looks" can buy nice painted models and more devoted hobbyists still have the option of buying unpainted models

sure you can argue that forcing people to paint increases retention, but you can argue just as validly that people who are going to stick around will do so even if they start off buying painted models (i.e. they simply develop interest in painting and customisation later on)
I understand that we can only speculate


Madness and ruin.
yes wouldn't it be great if the hobby itself descends into grim darkness too :P

starlight
08-10-2009, 04:36
They don't have enough room in the stores to carry their complete lines as it is, so what *else* would you suggest they take out to make room...?

It wouldn't work. :(

Khaunshar
08-10-2009, 04:44
Business-wise, I dont think it would be a wise idea. Warhammer seems acceptably easy to get into. A single day in any GW store shows a lot of young, new customers. To teenagers, painting and assembling, or at least the option, is always going to win out against spending more money, and not having even the chance to get miniatures as pretty as in the books.

Most veterans will have their armies painted in a certain style, so the point is moot.

The only real customer that you might attract with it is people with little inclination to do much besides playing battles themselves, with money to burn, to whom the hurdle of having to paint their armies is too big a deterrent to start.
I dont think thats a large demographic. Sure, some people might PREFER to get prepainted, but they are playing regardless.

Also, this would further split their product palette. Anyone knowing a bit about manufacturing in large scale knows that there is a world of a difference between running a batch of, say, 10.000 Landspeeder Kits, or 2x 5.000, one for prepainting, one not. The larger the run the cheaper each one, and pre-painting itself isnt even figured in yet.
So in other words, existing products would drop in profit margin, competing with the more expensively created new ones.
Then you have the loss of sales in paints, brushes and all that. While not a big thing, its certainly a nice sum on top of every army, probably in the 5% range for a complete army, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Last but not least you have to ship the unpainted to-be-painted kits, maybe even have someone assemble them unless you try to create different (and necessarily inferior, then) models that are all-in-one, like some Space Hulk Genestealers, you have to paint them in a country with low labor cost because otherwise its just ridiculously expensive, ship them back, sell them, and deal with all the hassle of quality loss, possible delays in release schedules and massively increased production cost on your regular products.

At this point, I really REALLY dont see any way, nor do I see much of a reason, to try and go pre-painted in large scale. And we are not even talking about the possible impact on the hobby this may have in peoples perception.

IcedAnimals
08-10-2009, 04:56
The amount of money that GW would make from those sales is probably less than the amount of money they would lose from no longer selling their ridiculously overpriced paints!

ehlijen
08-10-2009, 05:03
I'd foretell that there'd be many conversations along the line of:

"Dude, why don't you use the prepainted models? It's so much easier!"
-"I like painting my own models."
"But the painted ones look better!"
-"Gee thanks."

I've seen it happen when the dnd prepaints came out around here. I don't want to see it happen again in the hobby that is meant to be all about your own miniatures.

Also, if they try to turn the game into a prepaint game, they'll need to actually do a lot more work on making sure the game works as a game. They won't be able to claim 'it's not just a game, it's a hobby' anymore and will loose even more customers to games that are percieved to be better.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 05:51
so I guess you guys are saying that if the hobby becomes "optional", there's a very real risk that it will eventually die out

Putty
08-10-2009, 06:02
1. costs of "models" will go up

2. Sales will dip and company will go into administration

3. many current customers will leave the hobby

4. refer to, "Rackham".

They might survive, but GW won't be the same after that.

darker4308
08-10-2009, 06:20
I don't think a "premier line" of pre-painted models would be that bad. Like special characters that you could buy ect. that were sold in the stores in nice packages. A lot of indy stores already sell some small fraction of painted minis on consignment for local artists so really this concept is nothing new. It really comes down to the fact that a pre-painted model is a more significant capital investment - such that like with forgeworld you have to pay a significantly higher markup over standard GW.

All in all ... it would be a niche market until a significant technlogical advance. This is why the private sector is more cut out for this. Private contracts between people paying for highly specialized services. I mean there are already some non-affiliated GW sweatshops in Asia (spend some time on ebay you'll find them) I personally wouldn't care if they brought these services in house .... and honestly.... i don't see why anyone else would. It wouldn't apply to 95% of gamers.

Alessander
08-10-2009, 07:05
pre-painted models (the good quality ones) are all painted by hand in sweat-shops. GW doesn't want to get into that field.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 07:17
by pre-painted i was thinking of machine painted

Rioghan Murchadha
08-10-2009, 07:18
pre-painted models (the good quality ones) are all painted by hand in sweat-shops. GW doesn't want to get into that field.

It's true. It would be direct competition with the sweatshops they already run where they pay people pathetically negligible wages to paint things... oh wait...:p

grissom2006
08-10-2009, 07:24
Well we the customer would have to suffer from a price increase for the luxury of prepainted mini's. I for one wouldn't buy them so for them to sell them to me they'd have to be display pieces and not gaming scale models.

slightlyplausible
08-10-2009, 08:26
What if GW started selling heavy metal painted quality figures in limited numbers?

Vaul
08-10-2009, 08:33
The sale of paints, brushes and other hobby related materials make up a very very surprising amount of GW's sales every year. I can't remember exactly, but we're talking between 30 and 50% here. For them to offer pre-painted minis, which alot of people wouldn't ever dream of buying, they would be loosing out on the sales of hobby materials. lose/lose.

AndrewGPaul
08-10-2009, 08:43
To teenagers, painting and assembling, or at least the option, is always going to win out against spending more money, and not having even the chance to get miniatures as pretty as in the books.

The main competition is things like games consoles. The idea behind offering pre-painted armies is that you can open the box and play, without having to spend hours assembling and painting the things.


pre-painted models (the good quality ones) are all painted by hand in sweat-shops. GW doesn't want to get into that field.

As I understand it, that is not the case. Painted in China, possibly, but Rackham's pre-paints are, IIRC, machine-painted.

Tarax
08-10-2009, 08:53
The only products I can see pre-painted would be the starter sets. The are mostly one- or two-piece models which would require little assembly. If you look at the Fantasy starter set, this is mostly one-piece.

They can be machine painted, not of the highest quality, and easily re-painted.

Good to draw new customers in and not offensive to veterans.

Sircyn
08-10-2009, 08:57
Firstly the internets would collapse from the collective nerdrage that would ensue, so from that perspective alone GW is providing a public good by just not doing it. :D

I agree with other posters mentioning the practical, business and aesthetic reasons as to why pre paints are a bad idea. GW do a total hobby experience not army men, the satisfaction derived from obtaining tactile skills and achieving self set targets is a great part of the appeal of a hobby.

Also, just look at how fail rackham ended up.

AndrewGPaul
08-10-2009, 09:26
That was poor business decisions, not because they sold prepaints. AT-43 was doing pretty well until the fallout from ditching Confrontation v3 kicked them up the ****.

AndrewGPaul
08-10-2009, 09:38
The thing is, there are plenty of people to whom the "hobby" is playing a game, not assembling and painting miniatures (and vice versa, of course). Then there are those who would like a painted army but don't have the time, inclination or skill.

Selling painted, assembled miniatures targets those who look at wargames and think "that looks cool. WHat, you mean I have to paint them? Screw that", and those who want a huge army of goblins but can't get them all painted.

Rackham's prepaints also allow you to paint over the top of them, without having to re-prime. That means you can add extra details - faces, dials, etc - or change camo schemes. You can have both a fully painted army from the outset, and also have a unique army all of your own, if you so desire. For some reason, the people who complain that prepainted miniatures will mean every army looks alike fail or refuse to see this.

Xelloss
08-10-2009, 10:26
I would say I'm against pre-painted models alongside with unpainted ones, because there are doors better kept closed.

AndrewGPaul
08-10-2009, 12:06
Why? What difference does it make to people who want to paint their own armies. I like painting my own miniatures, and I think my painting is of a higher standard than the available prepaints out there now*. However, I'd rather play against a factory-painted army than the grey plastic hordes I usually face.

*Frankly, this is not always the case. I've not seen many painters who were worse than Wizkids' Mage Knight figures, but the current AT-43 miniatures are better than several 40K armies I've seen.

The only problem for me is the extra monetary cost involved in buying them. For others, they'd rather spend money than time. There's already a thriving painting industry, so it's not like this is a crazy new concept; it just means you don't have to wait a month or so to get your army.

DaSpaceAsians
08-10-2009, 12:16
I know at least that most of the players at my LGS and my entire gang would ditch Warhammer if prepainted only came out and most wouldn't even buy the prepainted if they came out along with non painted.

Macragge
08-10-2009, 12:43
God will smite a badger for every pre-painted mini that GW release.

And it's a well known fact that GW management like badgers, so it won't happen.

AndrewGPaul
08-10-2009, 14:14
I know at least that most of the players at my LGS and my entire gang would ditch Warhammer if prepainted only came out and most wouldn't even buy the prepainted if they came out along with non painted.

Why? I mean, if you enjoy painting the miniatures and playing the game, what good would it do, other than making you look like fools?

Lars Porsenna
08-10-2009, 15:11
I think the problem with this argument is the idea that any company will maintain a line of both pre-paints and unpainted minis. Most of the companies that went the pre-painted route do not support unpainted production. Rackham flirted with this, but AFAIK no longer supports it (there were rumors that AT-43 would be available in unpainted sprues...that has yet to materialize). While Reaper has an unpainted and prepainted lines, I think they're just being smart about it. But rumor has it that any new games they develop will be pre-paints. I have no allusions that if prepaints sell well, unpainted will dissappear.

Damon.

Giganthrax
08-10-2009, 15:39
I think having both the option of buying pre-painted models and the unpainted ones would be good.

There are plenty of people who love the gaming part of 40k, but hate the painting/modeling part. These guys would be able to buy pre-painted minis, and "plug'n'play" immediately. This way everyone would always have painted armies, which is good.

At the same time, those who prefer to paint their stuff on their own would be able to keep buying the unpainted minis.



On the whole, it'd be good, but I don't think something like that would ever happen. GW ain't that kind of company.

Master Jeridian
08-10-2009, 16:14
I think the concept of removing unpainted when pre-painted comes out is that if you undercoat the pre-painted....they are now unpainted again, genius.

Personally I love building and converting, generally don't like painting but will do it for the sense of achievement and the personal nature of the colour schemes picked.
I have no interest in pre-paints.

I would be interested in a quality 28mm skirmish game using the very nice 40k models.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 17:36
The main competition is things like games consoles. The idea behind offering pre-painted armies is that you can open the box and play, without having to spend hours assembling and painting the things.

I don't think assembly is such a big deal, it takes relatively little time compared to painting
I think it's the painting that's deterring some people, not the assembly which is easy and quick in comparison (snap, glue, snap...you're done)

I think machine-painted, un-assembled models would still attract "those who look at wargames and think that looks cool. What, I have to paint them? Screw that and those who want a huge army of goblins but can't get them all painted"

I'm not into painting so I'd rather buy an un-assembled, machine-painted army than an assembled, unpainted army...just my two cents
for most I think it's the painting that's the hurdle, not the assembling

laudarkul
08-10-2009, 17:44
I think that will see more painted armies on field. And I mean all the children will have their armies painted. As for me I'll stick with un-painted models (I also enjoy the hobby beside fluff and gaming).

LonelyPath
08-10-2009, 18:44
If they were painted to the level of Clix, D&D minis and so on it would be a very bad thing. When playing Clix I wfound the models to hideously painted I went and repainted all of those I used in games.

There would undoubtedly also be a large price increase to cover the "additional labour costs" for putting the models into a machine that sprays them the relevant colours.

In the long run, it would be a bad thing. I may be lazy at painting (I get about 5 or 6 squads done each ear at most) but I do enjoy painting the models myself when I get roundto it.

Bookwrak
08-10-2009, 18:50
It would in all likelihood be a terrible business decision because it would heavily cannibalize their sales. Just to make up some numbers, lets say that when the 9th ed SM codex is released, it cost GW $100,000 to bring the new models into production, and there are going to be 20,000 people who buy the army box.

Now let's say that 9th ed features prepainted marines sold side by side with the regular box. Same contents, same cost, just painted ahead of time. Let's say that that also cost $100,000 to bring into production (it'd probably cost more, but oh well). So $200,000 has been invested in the 9th ed SM release, and it ended up with 25,000 units sold. 7,000 prepaints, 18,000 regular.

You've doubled your investments, but you haven't doubled your sales, and your two lines are directly competing with each other. People with their own chapters are not going to buy the prepaints, so that's a completely lost demographic right there. People who were on the fence, but would've decided to buy the regular models but buy the prepaints instead are a market share you stole from yourself.

Lars Porsenna
08-10-2009, 19:21
You've doubled your investments, but you haven't doubled your sales, and your two lines are directly competing with each other. People with their own chapters are not going to buy the prepaints, so that's a completely lost demographic right there. People who were on the fence, but would've decided to buy the regular models but buy the prepaints instead are a market share you stole from yourself.

Even worse, how many SKUs do you have to maintain to "properly" represent SMs? Logically speaking, if SMs went pre-paint, GW would do Ultramarines. But lets say they give you a variety, and do DA, BT, BA, and Sallies (cause I'm biased): that's 6 more SKUs MINIMUM you have to maintain, further cannibalizing sales, and creating more inventory (inventory costs money, just like storing stuff). But if pre-paints sell well, where do you think the cut will come?

Damon.

Bookwrak
08-10-2009, 20:39
Well, if the prepaints sell well, then the plan worked. However, in the scenario I posited, the introduction of prepaints would have to at least double the total number of kits sold in order to break even, and that's the problem. When selling two nearly identical items that a consumer is likely to only buy one of, sales they steal from each other don't help out your bottom line much at all.

SPYDER68
08-10-2009, 21:05
if they did pre painted models / armies.. I would probly be done with the hobby, it takes away any and all army variety between two of the same armies.

Would be a cookie cutter game.

That and why paint all mine.. when people get a fully painted army with no effort.

MontytheMighty
08-10-2009, 22:05
even pre-paints can simply come primed, so if a customer wants to re-paint they can go ahead and do it

if you want a rarer chapter just buy unpainted models or repaint

and I don't see why people who like painting would be bothered if people who don't could buy pre-painted models (even now, they already can to a certain degree)

Corsair117
09-10-2009, 00:39
if they did pre painted models / armies.. I would probly be done with the hobby, it takes away any and all army variety between two of the same armies.

Would be a cookie cutter game.

That and why paint all mine.. when people get a fully painted army with no effort.

This is the biggest reason GW would never sell pre-paints, it's overly-simplistic, derogatory and sadly an all too common view from people playing their "grown up" game :rolleyes:

The fact is is you like to paint and model your figures pre-assembled/painted models aren't going to stop you (it hasn't stopped me and most pre-paint games have a pretty sizeable community of modders/repainters) and if it does you probably didn't enjoy it as much as you claimed.
likewise if you don't like to model/paint an un-assembled/painted game isnt going to get you to do it ,as evidenced by the amount of painters who offer their services on commission and the amount of complaining over unpainted armies out there.

I however don't think GW should (or would) sell pre-paints, atleast not in the foreseeable future, as they've always flaunted the modeling/painting side of their game as an important aspect.

darker4308
09-10-2009, 00:47
I know a lot of you arn't going to like this idea, but for those of us who have jobs or are in graduate school pre-painted would honestly be cheaper than self painting. I mean I know a lot of you are going to think I am retarded for saying this, but a lot of folks spend vast amounts of money on paints and other modeling supplies and space. How much are people really saving by doing their own painting....

EDIT : I'm talking about vs. sweatshop rate not vs. ok paid american labor.

Vesica
09-10-2009, 01:03
to clarify, the question is WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF GW STARTED SELLING PRE-PAINTED MODELS WHILE CONTINUING TO SELL UNPAINTED MODELS?

I'm more into the fluff than the game, but I wonder what you hobbyists think of this...
I don't think GW would ever stop selling unpainted models, but what do you think would happen if GW started selling a painted range of models along with unpainted models?

do you think overall sales would increase? would offering a painted range increase profits for GW in the long-run?
would simultaneously selling painted and unpainted products spell the doom of painting as part of the hobby? Of course, GW could limit painted models to special characters and such
but do you guys think selling some painted models would get a lot more people into the game (as I always thought the amount money, time and effort it takes to paint was always a big barrier for people who might be interested)

It would be nice to a degree, i never understood why they didn't offer a starter set for the armies that came 'pre-painted', it would make the game easier for new people and would give them something to aspire to when they come to their own models.

It would be cool if they did it from the website, i know that miniwargaming are offering preassembled and pre painted models. The only time i'd use it is for special characters where i would want them to look better than my current class of painting.

Ronin_eX
09-10-2009, 01:20
Meh, gaming was all about chits and counters for a great deal of time, it was even played on pre-made 2D maps. "The Hobby" is just as much about gaming and playing with your choice of chit as it is with building and painting your chit.

I've seen pre-paints done well and they are great. You essentially get a multi-part mini with a base coat already (seriously the AT-43 stuff is easy to mod and easy to paint over). The process they use puts only thin layers of paint on which essentially works out to a base primer coat. So if you want a custom painted and converted army then it is the same as it was before and if you hate playing against unpainted armies then you no longer need to worry because no one will have one.

That said GW have spent so much time obscuring the greater hobby by touting The GW Hobby that in all likelihood this would run counter to their desire to make sure no one ever needs to go anywhere else for their gaming needs.

GW could certainly do well for themselves if they moved over to pre-paint but it wouldn't be a quick process. Then again with crap rules and no hobby aspect keeping customers around they may just shoot themselves in the foot. If they go pre-paint they would need to finally make a good ruleset to survive. ;)

MontytheMighty
09-10-2009, 02:55
Meh, gaming was all about chits and counters for a great deal of time, it was even played on pre-made 2D maps. "The Hobby" is just as much about gaming and playing with your choice of chit as it is with building and painting your chit.

I've seen pre-paints done well and they are great. You essentially get a multi-part mini with a base coat already (seriously the AT-43 stuff is easy to mod and easy to paint over). The process they use puts only thin layers of paint on which essentially works out to a base primer coat. So if you want a custom painted and converted army then it is the same as it was before and if you hate playing against unpainted armies then you no longer need to worry because no one will have one.

That said GW have spent so much time obscuring the greater hobby by touting The GW Hobby that in all likelihood this would run counter to their desire to make sure no one ever needs to go anywhere else for their gaming needs.

GW could certainly do well for themselves if they moved over to pre-paint but it wouldn't be a quick process. Then again with crap rules and no hobby aspect keeping customers around they may just shoot themselves in the foot. If they go pre-paint they would need to finally make a good ruleset to survive. ;)

yeah, I don't think a well thought-out business plan to sell pre-painted/pre-primed models (whether assembled or un-assembled) in addition to the traditional unpainted and un-assembled models would necessarily mean financial ruin for GW or disaster for the hobby...
if it provides incentive for GW to improve the ruleset, great!

implementing a plan of this sort would require some vision and ambition from GW
furthermore, GW could still continue to promote the hobby even while offering a pre-painted range...I mean, the ultimate goal for a dedicated gamer would still be to paint/re-paint his own unique army

of course realistically, I would only expect GW to try something this "revolutionary" if the company fell into serious financial straits, otherwise GW probably wouldn't want to risk it

DuskRaider
09-10-2009, 04:55
1. costs of "models" will go up

2. Sales will dip and company will go into administration

3. many current customers will leave the hobby

4. refer to, "Rackham".

They might survive, but GW won't be the same after that.


Exactly, Rackham is a GREAT example of this. The company was doing great with Confrontation, they boosted their sales even more with Dogs of War and Cadwallon. The models were metal, but the detail was amazing. I myself had 5 Rag-Na-Rok sized armies, and one of the driving points was being able to paint your own pieces. Then they decided to completely change their format around, instead of skirmish games it was full scale armies. They dropped all of their metal models in favor of cheap plastic (seems like rubber to me) pre-painted pieces. They lost pretty much all of their following, and last I heard they went bankrupt.

Put it this way... At the peak of popularity, my LGS had almost 30 people come in for Confrontation night, and as many, if not MORE, for Dogs of War night. Once Rackham did away with their metal unpainted models, the entire scene dropped into nothingness. The store owner sold all of the pieces he had for 80% off, couldn't even sell that locally, had to turn to eBay, and it STILL took almost a year to clear it all out. He now refuses to carry anything with the Rackham name on it.

In other words, pre-painted = disaster, especially for a company that has been established with non-painted models. Leave it to Hero Clix and that other crap.

scarletsquig
09-10-2009, 07:23
Pre-paint is only a disaster if it replaces an existing line of models.

Privateer Press has done pretty well with their prepaints by keeping them away from the main line.

GW would have to make a new game if it wanted to prepaints a spin. Prices would not be great, just look at AT-43 for an example.

I like AT-43, got me a red blok army.. the game plays well, reminds me of a more balanced version of 2nd edition 40k... lots of focus on shooting rather than assault too.

The advantage of pre-paints is that it lets you start up an additional game without having to invest much time initially.. if AT-43 was a mass battle game with unpainted metal models I wouldn't have bothered, got too much unpainted stuff at the moment as it is... the prepaints gave me a decent reason to buy into it.

AndrewGPaul
09-10-2009, 08:13
Rackham's problem was ditching Confrontation 3 for Confrontation: Age of the Rag'Narok, and doing away with all but 2 of the armies for a significant time. That was nothing to do with the pre-paint issue - AT-43 was doing fine until they screwed up Confrontation. If they'd planned the release of the new game better (pitching it as a replacement of Rag'Narok, not a replacement of the skirmish game, having decent army lists for all the factions from the start), they'd probably have done better.

Max1mum
09-10-2009, 09:30
GW + pre painted models = Hell freezing over ( or so i hope )

Hrw-Amen
09-10-2009, 09:59
I hope that they don't do this. Painting and assembly is the thing that I enjoy, rather than playing. Creating a unique model even if only in a small way, putting it together as I like and painting in the colours I want.

Having said that, although I have been painting for many years now I am by no means an expert. If GW did prepaintd models, be they assembled or unasembled I would almost certainly not buy them.

If however they offereda reasonably cheap paiting service, where by you could buy the figures, then state what colours you wwanted, whether you wanted them preassemble or notand then just collect them or get them posted to you when done, this may be good. I can only see that I would use something like at for core troops though.

It really would depend on the quality of the painting, it would have to be at least as good as I could do it, and of course the cost

Generally though, I hope that they do not do this, as it spoils the fun.

Tarax
09-10-2009, 10:02
You've doubled your investments, but you haven't doubled your sales, and your two lines are directly competing with each other. People with their own chapters are not going to buy the prepaints, so that's a completely lost demographic right there. People who were on the fence, but would've decided to buy the regular models but buy the prepaints instead are a market share you stole from yourself.

You just hit the nail on the head. "People have their own chapter." Which indirectly means, they have their own colour scheme.
With most pre-painted models, alle the uniforms are already known, eg Germans in grey, US in green and UK in khaki for WWII. If GW had just said that Space Marines are blue, (Oh, the horror! :angel:) Tyranids were red, Orks are green (Oops, they already are. :p) and Eldar are yellow, then it would be much simpler.

Corbulo
09-10-2009, 10:18
this kind of idea would appeal to people who ether don't like painting but personally i would buy the unpainted models as like to paint

TimLeeson
09-10-2009, 11:44
It could make sense, especially when theres so many people that do preset armies like iyanden, blood angels, ultramarines, world eaters ect.

Condottiere
09-10-2009, 12:00
I think it depends on the price; I know I dislike painting.

Llew
09-10-2009, 13:42
I love to paint. I'm pretty decent at it. My eyes are getting bad though, so it's more and more difficult to paint. (For example, after about 30 minutes, I get double-vision and it stays with me for 2-3 hours.)

I wouldn't feel threatened by pre-paints. I'd probably even pick some up for games that I'm less interested in (like 40k) if the price was reasonable. Other manufacturers have proven the prices can be reasonable.

Pre-paints would be ideal for GW's real target audience of kids. It lowers one of the barriers to entry. Plus, I've played against too many primered armies, or armies painted to standards lower than HeroClix. It sure wouldn't hurt how the tabletop looked.

blongbling
09-10-2009, 15:10
This is never gonna happen, for several reason chief amongst those are the amount of money that GW makes from selling its paints and accessories.

Prepaints will aim at kids, GW doesn't want kids. The GW hobby is all about collecting, painting, modeling and gaming...prepaints kinda precludes two of the four basic tenants that GW has.

So many reasons they this isnt a good idea, others have tried it and failed, the customers tend to be more transient as they don't have to invest into what they are doing, the quality goes down, prices would have to come up, etc, etc

If GW did do this then it would be the ultimate sell out for a company that has said it would never do it

MontytheMighty
09-10-2009, 17:48
The advantage of pre-paints is that it lets you start up an additional game without having to invest much time initially.. if AT-43 was a mass battle game with unpainted metal models I wouldn't have bothered, got too much unpainted stuff at the moment as it is... the prepaints gave me a decent reason to buy into it.

yeah and if they're done well, you'll even have the option of repainting them later...



I've seen pre-paints done well and they are great. You essentially get a multi-part mini with a base coat already (seriously the AT-43 stuff is easy to mod and easy to paint over). The process they use puts only thin layers of paint on which essentially works out to a base primer coat. So if you want a custom painted and converted army then it is the same as it was before and if you hate playing against unpainted armies then you no longer need to worry because no one will have one.


a pre-paint starter set would be a good idea IMO
after that, GW could tweak the plan and slowly expand it if there turns out to be a large demand for pre-paints, they don't have to plunge suddenly into full-scale pre-paint production without first tailoring their plan according to preliminary results

even if the pre-paint range competes with the unpainted range, the idea that this would spell disaster rests on the assumption that the profits generated by pre-paint sales won't be enough to offset a decline in profits generated by unpainted sales

RichardRBrown
25-10-2013, 08:40
I would love this to happen, If they did that then they couldn't sell you overpriced paints, glue ... I would LOVE for GW to release pre assembled models.

dalezzz
25-10-2013, 18:55
Are the people with unpainted army's buying paints then?

ehlijen
25-10-2013, 21:43
Did this really need a necro?

ntw3001
26-10-2013, 02:24
A four-year-old necro and triple post in one! I think that's the best I've seen.

Autumn Leaves
26-10-2013, 05:41
I'd buy pre-painted GW miniatures on the proviso they were well painted.
I wouldn't buy them if they had that kind of Hero-clix quality of paintwork.

Nymie_the_Pooh
26-10-2013, 06:46
I know this might get closed as being a necro topic, but there are two types of models that tend to sell. The ultra cheap models, or the high quality models. I think anybody looking for high quality prepaints would be looking at similar prices as paying a commission painter. The people that don't want to pay those prices seem to be perfectly fine with cheap prepaints. Going for something in the middle like Rackham did with their prepaints is still a bit pricier than one would pay for unpainted GW models and probably would not sell too well unless GW switched completely over, and we have seen what happens to a company that switches completely over from high quality models to decent quality prepaints.

lbecks
26-10-2013, 09:06
I think if they brought back BFG pre-paints would work. I think the FFG X-Wing ships are pretty nice for pre-paints.

Wintermute
26-10-2013, 09:25
Did this really need a necro?

No

Thread Closed

Wintermute