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View Full Version : Warshrines of Chaos! Mwahahahahaha!



TrojanWolf
08-10-2009, 09:55
I'm more than likely going to be entering a doubles tournament for Fantasy within a couple of weeks where I think my partner will be taking WoC, and I know I'll be taking WoC. Once I'd heard that he would probably be taking Chaos, I kinda figured I'd be making an orc of myself to not take the lovely new Tzeentch warshrine I've just finished converting.

Question is, has anyone else here used a warshrine in battle? Are they as simple to use as I would believe (place it at the centre of the line and start throwing glory around)?

Share your experiences with Warshrines of Chaos, whether fighting under its scrutiny or opposing its divine wrath!

nosferatu1001
08-10-2009, 10:04
Pretty much: they are also fairly tough in combat, as they are difficult to wound (especially Tz ones) and work best when combined with knights with favour. Well worth buffing them at the start and seeing what you get :)

TrojanWolf
08-10-2009, 10:26
Pretty much: they are also fairly tough in combat, as they are difficult to wound (especially Tz ones) and work best when combined with knights with favour. Well worth buffing them at the start and seeing what you get :)
Uh, Knights can't take Favour. Sure you didn't mean Chosen? If so, I am very keen to up the chances of my Tzeentch Chosen getting divine greatness!

Crube
08-10-2009, 11:28
Thread moved to WFB Tactics


Crube
The Warseer Inquisition

Avian
08-10-2009, 11:43
I've used my Slaaneshi warshrine a bit and here are my preliminary conclusions:

1) It doesn't ever die. In six battles, it has suffered 1 wound in total (thus I think I did right in not bothering with the Mark of Tzeentch and instead going for protection from Fear, Terror and Panic). This makes it great for points denial.

2) The bonuses can be handy, but it's rather hard to know in advance if something is good (the best the blessing has done so far was +1 Ld on a unit of Knights, which allowed them to pass a critical break test, but I didn't expect that to be useful)

3) It is surprisingly useful in combat (a lot due to #1) and the battles where it has done the best are those I've used it aggressively and gone for units of archers, lone monsters and similar units with little in the way of static CR.

Witchblade
08-10-2009, 12:53
It's resilient, but lacks SCR, so you should play it aggressively and get it into combat together with another of your units. They may not suffer wounds when fighting solo, but they'll get overrun for sure.

On a side note, they can also bait, as they can flee from charges.

Chosen + Favour + 2 Warshrines = completely absurd deathstar (that will be avoided and ignored all game).

EvC
08-10-2009, 14:17
Warshrine can be killed with a fair bit of effort, but can do pretty good in the meantime. I usually see them paired up with Banner of the Gods- but then I don't particularly mind my opponents blowing 400 points on anvils to slow me down a teeny bit.

Jericho
08-10-2009, 18:55
I don't have a model done up yet, but I've heard lots of horror stories about these things being nigh unkillable and just plain useful. Obviously when you're using the EoTG chart as a core strategy for your army it helps to combine it with things like Favor of the Gods or Valkya. I don't think you'll be able to use her in a doubles tourney, but with Favor and/or a unit of Chosen you have a pretty disgusting unit. When you make it into combat they usually do very well for themselves.

My favorite story about Chosen: I was playing mono-Slaanesh Demons, and towards the end of the game my Chosen ended up being charged on 3 sides, including taking a Keeper of Secrets in the rear. To my everlasting joy I killed every single Daemonette/Seeker that charged me, and the Keeper's head exploded due to all my combat res. These guys really are gross if they get +1S so that they can use their shields. +1T is also pretty gross, not to mention some of the crazy ones like 4+ ward and Stubborn (even better when Tzeentch makes it 3+ ward!!).

Witchblade
08-10-2009, 20:03
Last week (in a special scenario) I had a Chosen deathstar with +1T, +1AS and Divine Greatness massacre an entire tomb king army. They killed 2 bone giants, 8 ushabti, 80 sketons, 25 tomb guards and 1 scorpion in 3 turns while only suffering 5 casualties. Disgusting...

Jericho
08-10-2009, 20:16
... How the heck did you do that much that quickly LOL

Avian
08-10-2009, 20:57
Sounds like he took a big unit of the new metal ones and dropped it on the Tomb King army... :D

BlackVomit
08-10-2009, 22:50
Sorry for sidetracking a bit, but can someone explain to me why a unit of Chaos Knights cannot roll on the Eye of the Gods with the Warshrine as I seem to be missing something?
Tnx

Witchblade
08-10-2009, 22:57
The skeleton blocks were in the unit's front which resulted in a ridiculous amount of skelly CR and thus mass crumbling. The undead really couldn't do any damage to the unit, especially not after the first round when they kept losing initiative. The bone giants and scorpion crumbled soon. The tomb guard and ushabti stuck around a little longer, but also couldn't keep up with the mass skeleton destruction.

FYI, the unit was:
22 chosen of tzeentch, halberds, shield, FC, banner of rage, Favour
+
Exalted of tzeentch, GW, Helm of many eyes, BSB (monster slayer!)

Scenario was 'Chosen raided a ruined city, enraging the undead guardians. If the chosen unit could make it across the board before being wiped out, they were victorious.'

On-topic: warshrines can give their glory to knights, yes. They just don't get the pre-game roll on the EotG table like Chosen do.

Ξ H2O Ξ
08-10-2009, 23:21
...including taking a Keeper of Secrets in the rear. To my everlasting joy...
^Love it!

As to answer OPs question. Use shrines to protect flanks and hope for a nice buff to a unit. So yeah as simple as you'd thought.

TrojanWolf
09-10-2009, 02:38
Thanks for all the help. Sounds to me like the best thing to do would be set up the warshrine next to my Chosen (MoT, halberds, shields, favour and Blasted) and march them both towards something squishy (being WoC, pretty much anything :p).

As far as marks go, I think I'd have a pretty hard time explaining to my opponents why my Slaanesh warshrine has Tzeentch icons on it while being pulled by a pair of Screamers (yes, it floats).


Sounds like he took a big unit of the new metal ones and dropped it on the Tomb King army... :D

You sir, win. Pure and simple.

AramilSairSianontel
09-10-2009, 08:06
Don't forget that Warshrines also make all units champions get the "eye of the gods" special rule..combined with the endless conversions that could be made for each of them, and all the points maken before i think warshrine is a great rare choise rivaled only by the other great rare choises of the WoC book

TrojanWolf
09-10-2009, 09:03
The Hellcannon immediately springs to mind. :D

Yeah, I'll definitely remember that one. Especially since my partner will be taking two units of Knights and a unit of Ogres.

252nd Fire Dragoon
09-10-2009, 09:15
Aloha,
From what I have read and heard, the warshrine is a beast machine. All I hear about is how long a warshrine lasts. Hehe, might make one for the sake of it.

AramilSairSianontel
09-10-2009, 09:22
Since you're entering a tournament hellcannon is a no-brainer i think...
unbreakable terror causing, and whatever touches with the small template panic at -1 :eek: combined with the banner of -1 ld and the pandemonium spell which stupidly i failed to dispel with my o&g took out a whole unit of my black orcs, with a lord, and a bsb in it...on turn one, of a 4500 pts game vs my brother :cries:
However it all depends on the list you want to play-shaggoths, giants, and spawns all make excellent and useful tools-how many points will u be playing exactly?

EvC
09-10-2009, 11:42
Except you don't design tournament lists to beat Orcs and Goblins, do you? ;)

PeG
09-10-2009, 12:19
warshrines are great, I have also seen units of chosen supported by two warshrines + item that lets you modify the roll. This means three rolls that can be modified on turn 1 and two every turn after that. After rolling 12 or 11 (modified to 12) one of the warshrines moves to support another unit.

AramilSairSianontel
09-10-2009, 19:04
Except you don't design tournament lists to beat Orcs and Goblins, do you? ;)

Correct, still, the combo stands, and a unit that is not immune to psychology and has ld 9, has more than 1/4 chances to lose a panic test if touched by the hellcannon's shot- no kills required. Horde armies are just more likely to be devastated by the hellcannon.
Imo hellcannon is tournament material, much more than a warshrine, and since u design tournament lists to take on all comers the only decent ranged that the WoC have is good vs any army-and unbreakable. And terror causing.

Tastyfish
09-10-2009, 20:54
Don't forget that Warshrines also make all units champions get the "eye of the gods" special rule..combined with the endless conversions that could be made for each of them, and all the points maken before i think warshrine is a great rare choise rivaled only by the other great rare choises of the WoC book

Also, it means that unit champions can issue challenges to protect wizards and allow chaos lords to slaughter units rather than try to overkill enemy unit champions (rules state a model with EotG has to challenge if able - two models with the rule is the only exception allowed that I can think of).

That alone makes them pretty much a compulsory choice for me.

Morglum5780
09-10-2009, 22:54
the rules don't state that EotGs characters must challenge, they say WoC models must. Everyone must challenge all of the time, EotG only allows you a roll on the table when you kill something.

TrojanWolf
09-10-2009, 23:12
how many points will u be playing exactly?
1,250pts per person, self contained forces. So 2,500pts for a team who must follow the force organisation for a 1,250pt force. One rare choice for me. :(

If my partner wasn't using Chaos, I would've taken the Hellcannon.


the rules don't state that EotGs characters must challenge, they say WoC models must. Everyone must challenge all of the time, EotG only allows you a roll on the table when you kill something.
That one's a bit hazy, since unit champions don't have the EotG rule unless a Warshrine is present. Which means that both my Sorcerer and my Chosen Champion will be yelling their heads off at every enemy character.

My Sorcerer once told a dwarf thane that "his mother was a goblin and his father couldn't hold his drink."

Eta
10-10-2009, 17:15
That one's a bit hazy, since unit champions don't have the EotG rule unless a Warshrine is present. Which means that both my Sorcerer and my Chosen Champion will be yelling their heads off at every enemy character.




Q. Does the compulsion to challenge apply to
all models in the army or only to models with
the Eye of the Gods special rule?
A. It applies to all models capable of issuing
challenges. This means the Champions are
compelled to issue challenges, but may not roll
on the Eye of the Gods chart (unless the army
includes a War Shrine, of course!). They can,
however, refuse challenges, in a very cowardly
and un-Chaosy fashion!


If you have a character and a champion in the unit you will be able to chose which one fights in the challenge.

Greetings
Eta

Avian
10-10-2009, 22:01
Don't ask why. It's Chaos. It's not meant to make sense.

Can you tell Phil Kelly did not start out as a rules writer? ;)

TrojanWolf
11-10-2009, 08:43
If you have a character and a champion in the unit you will be able to chose which one fights in the challenge.

I should know that, I've got the faq stuffed in the front of my army book. Your own point is interesting though. Would that only apply if my opponent issued the challenge, or can I say that the champion is issuing the challenge and leave my sorcerer out of it? Sounds like all I can do is hope that my opponent challenges first, because I'm pretty sure that both will have to challenge.

Avian
11-10-2009, 09:44
Everybody who can issue challenges must do so whenever possible.
If you have multiple models who can issue a challenge, it does not appear to matter who does it.

Characters may not refuse challenges, though champions may. So if a challenge is issued and you have a character that could accept it, you must accept the challenge, though you don't have to accept it with a character, you could accept it with a champion.

Havock
11-10-2009, 10:09
I don't challenge (or accept) with sorcerers. Unless it's a Tarp-sorcerer with a runeswordon a steed in a unit of banner-of-raged knights.
Then I'll go.

*unhorses elf 'mage hunter'*

johnny2tone
11-10-2009, 16:06
Yes the warshrine never dies, but I've found it to be too slow, same problem with the chosen for that matter... any good general will have them march blocked and ineffective immediately. Scary but too slow.

Avian
11-10-2009, 17:53
Maybe, but:
1) the Warshrine moves as a monster, making it more maneuverable as it doesn't need to wheel.
2) it still has an effect since it can bless your units

TrojanWolf
12-10-2009, 04:16
I don't challenge (or accept) with sorcerers. Unless it's a Tarp-sorcerer with a runeswordon a steed in a unit of banner-of-raged knights.
Then I'll go.

*unhorses elf 'mage hunter'*

Good point, except that a sorcerer with EotG has a tourettes-like compulsion to sling grievous abuse at practically anyone. Doesn't help when he's staring down a Bruiser (or is that the other way around?).

EvC
12-10-2009, 12:20
Correct, still, the combo stands, and a unit that is not immune to psychology and has ld 9, has more than 1/4 chances to lose a panic test if touched by the hellcannon's shot- no kills required. Horde armies are just more likely to be devastated by the hellcannon.
Imo hellcannon is tournament material, much more than a warshrine, and since u design tournament lists to take on all comers the only decent ranged that the WoC have is good vs any army-and unbreakable. And terror causing.

All true, but again when designing tournament lists you shouldn't prioritise stuff that's going to destroy weak armies like basic horde infantry- that's the kind of stuff that you should be killing in combat. The Hellcannon gets its place because it murders stuff like ASF Elves and Steggardons, plus gives you something to guard the backlines at the same time.

Havock
12-10-2009, 17:10
Good point, except that a sorcerer with EotG has a tourettes-like compulsion to sling grievous abuse at practically anyone. Doesn't help when he's staring down a Bruiser (or is that the other way around?).

That's what unit champions are for.

Like I said; I don't have one in that unit; but I am fairly sure of that squishy little wizard's abilities to rip the **** out of a lot of things.

A full-health bruiser: no way.

One with only a single wound remaning? Why the hell not? :p

GenerationTerrorist
12-10-2009, 22:09
I love my Warshrine, but was definately NOT a fan initially. But for 150pts (with the MoT) I get a T6 3+Ward piece of nastiness for just a few extra points than a Chariot would cost. My favourite tactic is to buff the Warshrine itself just before it smashes into a nice block of rank+file troops or gets hit by some enemy heavy cavalry by opponents who don't know what this chariot-type thing actually does!

TrojanWolf
13-10-2009, 12:55
Okay, I've finally had a practice game with the warshrine (700pt vs Beasts), but I don't think it was a very helpful game in itself. Maybe someone else can see what was useful, the whole brainstorm thing.

Oh, and before you start picking apart my army I was using what I had with me. The only other things I had with me were Chosen and Warhounds.

What I had:
Sorcerer with MoT and Lv2
10 Warriors with MoT, shields and full command
10 Warriors with MoK, shields and full command
Warshrine

What I faced:
Wargor with MoT
Bray Shaman with MoS
20 strong Beast Herd
10 Bestigor with great weapons
Chariot

First buff: Tzeentch warriors cause terror. I marched them up to within 6" of the bestigor and the chariot, figuring that next turn one or both would fail the terror test and flee. BOTH units passed, then both passed the fear test and charged in, taking out both my warriors and the sorcerer. Both units overran to just past the warshrine.

EotG: While that was happening, the beast herd with shaman charged the Khorne warriors. Warriors took no casualties, champion murdered the shaman and received Ld9. Next turn they received S5 from the warshrine, which was taken out by the bestigor and the chariot. The warshrine changed S5 to fear before it was run down.

Fear: Helped me a little. Both remaining beast units held when the Khorne warriors charged them, champion was killed by the wargor but the bestigor were wiped out leaving only the wargor and the chariot on two wounds. The warriors chased both units across the table where the wargor failed two fear tests which lead to failed charges. Both beasts finally rallied and charged in, getting slaughtered by the warriors. The warriors were left at 5 strong at the end of the game.

I don't think the warshrine seemed to be all that helpful, but that could be because of how I used it. Charging it into a unit that has S6 attacks probably wasn't that smart, and the gifts generated didn't seem to help all that much IMO. What do you guys think?

Avian
13-10-2009, 13:51
700 pts is a very small force and a few lucky or unlucky (depending on which side of the table you are standing on) dice rolls can swing the battle a lot easier than at normal levels. For example, if one of the four Ld tests at Ld7 were failed, the battle might have turned out quite differently. The chance of him passing all those is a very low 12%, so you can always blame the dice. ;)
Anyways, at that level I would take few expensive, single models and get more guys on the table.

TrojanWolf
14-10-2009, 07:05
700 pts is a very small force and a few lucky or unlucky (depending on which side of the table you are standing on) dice rolls can swing the battle a lot easier than at normal levels. For example, if one of the four Ld tests at Ld7 were failed, the battle might have turned out quite differently. The chance of him passing all those is a very low 12%, so you can always blame the dice. ;)
Anyways, at that level I would take few expensive, single models and get more guys on the table.
Can I blame the local manager too? He told me that terror would be awesome against beasts. ;)

Believe me, I would've taken the marauders if I'd had them with me. Obviously, Tzeentch had other ideas.

nzdarkelf
15-10-2009, 05:11
In defence of your local manager, as Beasts are generally a low leadership army (Doom Bull alters this to a degree), terror would normally be a real threat. Of course the roll of the dice is a random beast in itself.

EvC
15-10-2009, 11:43
You should add Favour of the Gods to your Sorcerer, so he can help you modify your warshrine results.

TrojanWolf
15-10-2009, 13:23
I would, but my Chosen champion doesn't like to share. :D