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Dragon Prince of Caledor
08-10-2009, 19:09
Hello people,
My friend surprised me with a bunch of chaos stuff after summer break (we both go to the same uni but he lives far away).
He showed me his list and at first I thought it was horribly dirty and unbeatable. Now I think I will eat it for one simple reason, it has like no models.

What do you guys think about it? I could pass this info on to him.


Lord
Some uber spellcaster in a chariot

Heroes

3 L2's

Core:

3*10 uber warriors of chaos decked out with nurgle stuff.

2*5 flesh hound things

Special:

Chariot



That is pretty much his list. I dont know the magic items by name nor do I know much about chaos but there are a lot of dirty magic related things. However, I still think this list will get owned when I shut down his magic phase and hit him with lots of elites.

Do you guys think his list could compete with High Elves, Dwarves, Brettonians, Tomb Kings, and Lizardmen? I dont think it has a chance.

Anyways thanks in advance :angel:

Dasyatis
08-10-2009, 19:16
Erm ... would really need a bit more info about the army. As it stands, thats not a list. Its just a general outline of a potential army.

Ramius4
08-10-2009, 19:24
And if he's got flesh hounds, he's using the old book. WoC don't have access to those anymore...

MTUCache
08-10-2009, 20:13
Ring of Hotek, Spelleater, Hellheart, etc, etc...

Any list that relies entirely on 12+PD (and likely almost entirely on getting Gateway off five times in one game), is pretty lame when it can be completely gimped by a single magic item. Any list with 6DD, a couple of scrolls, and any of the items listed above are going to eat this thing for lunch.

Doesn't matter if it's a gunline (which could likely take out 1000 points per turn), a horde, or a castled up army in a corner. When you can re-direct his entire offense with a single unit, or kill it all with a couple of lucky shots, this is the epitome of a one trick pony.

My guess? He'll win 30% of his games, sweating out the dice the whole game, and the other 70% of the time he'll get trounced and probably completely tabled.

On the other hand, can't complain about being able to carry your entire army in a sandwich bag. :p

Dragon Prince of Caledor
08-10-2009, 21:24
lol. For all you real chaos kids I will try to get ahold of his actual list with its magic items. I dont know what the fast meat shield things are actually called :S
I was just seeing if other people agreed that an army style such as that will, in most cases get owned.
I have got 5DD two scrolls and +1 DD in my list as well as drain magic against uber magic lists.

Peace (Except on the table top lol)

Axis
09-10-2009, 02:38
He probably means warhounds instead of fleshhounds...

-Epimetheus-
09-10-2009, 02:40
Well, I guess I'm going to post my list online now Robbie. I'm just glad I made you sweat it out for a while ;)

Also - Hello everybody. I guess I should at least say that with my first post.

I know this list is likely going to fall flat on it's face, but the idea just seems way to cool to pass up.

Well, without further ado, here it is:

Lord

Sorcerer Lord
Level 4 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
The Black Tongue
Skull of Katam

Chariot mount
Mark of Nurgle
Total 520


Heroes

Sorcerer
Level 2 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
Infernal Puppet
Total 175

Sorcerer
Level 2 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
Rod of Torment
Magic missile.
Total 185

Sorcerer
Level 2 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
Power Familiar
Dispel Scroll
Total 190


Core

10 Warriors
Shields
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Nurgle
Total 240

10 Warriors
Shields
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Nurgle
Total 240

10 Warriors
Shields
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Nurgle
Total 240

5 Chaos Warhounds
Total 30

5 Chaos Warhounds
Total 30


Special

Chaos Chariot
Mark of Nurgle
Total 150


Army Total

2000 pts


The idea is to have all 4 sorcerers with Magnificent Buboes, so I can snipe anything that will be really dangerous. Hopefully. And I should be able to help kill my opponent's magic phase, as well as help save my own if I get a poor roll.

My list will fall flat on it's face against a gunline, as well as a list with a lot of cavalry. A powerful lord on a dragon could really **** my army up as well..... But yea, I can carry this army around in such a small container, it's ridiculous. I played a semi-swarm Tyranids for 40k, so I know how bad it can be.....

I've also left myself room for expanding my army. And I'm doing some subtle things to make it look cool (using wolves for Warhounds and the chariot's steeds for example). I'm not planning on entering any tournaments with this.

Now, Robbie, gimme a link where your list is. I wanna see what I'm up against ;)

Paraelix
09-10-2009, 07:51
Why oh why would you drop the Black Tongue on your Lord? He has more dice/spells and will be your general... Therefore he's more prone to miscasting and being hunted down. You're basically giving away a wound and making him only as durable as another lvl2. Similarly, a wizard in a chariot is an easy target, and your character doesn't have any ward save/regen/etc, so he will get owned.

Also, having all wizards using the same lore is a bit boring and lacks flexibility.

Finally, you don't really have any units that can absord enemy combat units. You will pretty much always be recieving the charge from knights, because you have nothing to intercept them speed wise... And 10 warriors, even with full command, are unlikely to halt a heavy cav charge. A skirmisher army would also have a field day, dancing circles around your units. I'd try and add in more variety... Don't run 4 wizards. Take some marauder cav or knights. Maybe try some Ogres or something different?

Dragon Prince of Caledor
09-10-2009, 14:42
Welcome to Warseer Epimethius :P (Silly Logan)
I have to go to class right now but I will pull up that thread soon after.
Peace.
For the most part I agree with Paraelix but hey what do i know :D

Ξ H2O Ξ
09-10-2009, 15:03
Skull of Katam is not worth it imo, also if ur wiazrd is on a chariot who is gonna be in 3" range to recieve the bonus(apart form himself)?
Black tounge definatley not on ur lord, 500+point set up and u give away a wound... Also chariot is not the best mount for a sorc lord, demonic mount is nice for fear/attacks/+1sv
3 Wizards with MoN is probs not ur best idea. Some form of fear/terror/panic test causer is needd for the occasional horde army. Doom and Darkness + flith mace vs gobbos, fun times. If ur set on magic heavy book of secrets is nice, i take over the power fam cause gives u a dice and the option of casting a spell, using steed of shadows twice in 1 phase makes for great avoidence.
Ur 3 warrior units are overly expensive, 240pts for 10 blokes who won't be much of a threat, if u wanna keep it small boost em to 12 with MoK + halberds for some ITP hard hitters, that have to be delt with.
More fast stuff needed for sure. Marauder cav or a unit of 10 dogs (can be entertaining as crew hunters).
Perhaps look into a BSB, cause ur small units only need to take a few wounds to start fleeing.

GL.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
09-10-2009, 15:13
Well, I guess I'm going to post my list online now Robbie. I'm just glad I made you sweat it out for a while ;)

Also - Hello everybody. I guess I should at least say that with my first post.

I know this list is likely going to fall flat on it's face, but the idea just seems way to cool to pass up.

Well, without further ado, here it is:

Lord

Sorcerer Lord
Level 4 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
The Black Tongue
Skull of Katam

Chariot mount
Mark of Nurgle
Total 520


Heroes

Sorcerer
Level 2 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
Infernal Puppet
Total 175

Sorcerer
Level 2 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
Rod of Torment
Magic missile.
Total 185

Sorcerer
Level 2 Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle
Power Familiar
Dispel Scroll
Total 190


Core

10 Warriors
Shields
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Nurgle
Total 240

10 Warriors
Shields
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Nurgle
Total 240

10 Warriors
Shields
Great Weapons
Command
Mark of Nurgle
Total 240

5 Chaos Warhounds
Total 30

5 Chaos Warhounds
Total 30


Special

Chaos Chariot
Mark of Nurgle
Total 150


Army Total

2000 pts


The idea is to have all 4 sorcerers with Magnificent Buboes, so I can snipe anything that will be really dangerous. Hopefully. And I should be able to help kill my opponent's magic phase, as well as help save my own if I get a poor roll.

My list will fall flat on it's face against a gunline, as well as a list with a lot of cavalry. A powerful lord on a dragon could really **** my army up as well..... But yea, I can carry this army around in such a small container, it's ridiculous. I played a semi-swarm Tyranids for 40k, so I know how bad it can be.....

I've also left myself room for expanding my army. And I'm doing some subtle things to make it look cool (using wolves for Warhounds and the chariot's steeds for example). I'm not planning on entering any tournaments with this.

Now, Robbie, gimme a link where your list is. I wanna see what I'm up against ;)


Here you go chief :P


Lord:
Archmage: Folariath's Robes, Jewel of the Dusk, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Heroes:

L2 Mage with ring of fury and 6+ ward save thing.

Noble: BSB with all the tools and battle banner (lance shield, barded steed, dragon armour etc)

Core Units:

10 Archers
10 Archers

Special Units:

15 White Lions with command and gem of courage (champion holds it)

15 Phoenix Guard with command and banner of sorcery

14 Swordmasters with banner and banner of Arcane Protection

5 Dragon Princes with command and fire amulet.


Rare Units:
2 Great Eagles

Only difference is I am dropping the 6+ ward save and giving swordmasters a champion who will bear the amulet of fire thing and the dragon princes' banner will be the banner of arcane protection (I am tired of these awesome knights getting shot down/magic-ed)


Peace

PeG
09-10-2009, 15:16
If you want lots of casters make the lvl4 tzeentch and the supporting lvl1-2s Nurgle. If you want your lvl4 fast put him on a disc. This will allows you to make more damage against RnF.

You can deal with most magical items with buboes but high MR will kill the list unless you can kill it in combat

Also the list is too slow. You need more fast things. I would add horesemen and/or knights. Why three units of warriors? If you want them as caster bunkers marauders with MoS are a lot cheaper and can give you some points for knights.

The tongue is moderately useful against most armies but can be very good against others and is definitely an item you should consider dropping to save some points

The warhounds are among the best units in the book, keep them and maybe add some more if you have spare points.

-Epimetheus-
09-10-2009, 23:37
Well, I guess I should explain myself a little better then.

I am making a themed army. Sort of a feral-nurgle army.

I know there are ways of making it nasty. That is not my intent. I don't mind only winning 30% of my games.....

Basically, that's why I haven't posted this before..... Or even tried to post on a forum - some people take this game way to seriously. It is a *********** game. It has been created for people to have fun playing (and GW to separate us and the money in our wallets ;)).

I'm sure I will change the magic items, experiment a bit. But this is what I came up with so far. I have come up with other options for spreading those magic items around, as well as thinking about dropping both chariots and adding in another WoC unit, adding some knights, more Warhounds, etc. At the moment, this is what I have:

3 boxes of Warriors - 1 model for my chariots (2 if I don't use it as a mount).
Enough halberds to suit the unit. They look great as great weapons too, since I would give them both great weapons and shields.

Warriors of Chaos Chariot

Beastmen Chariot (will need 2 Warriors to serve as crew - I already have a plan for this)

5 Wolves (4 of these will go to the mounts for the Chariots).

I still need to get more wolves to be the Warhounds. After I get that, I will have 2k to play around with, at least. I will worry about adding goodies later on.

Paraelix
10-10-2009, 00:50
H20. Have you ever miscast? Book of Secrets forces you to take the worst of the miscasts... Enemies throwing spells around and your guy being sucked off the table aren't really great for you...

Dragon Prince of Caledor
10-10-2009, 15:15
Lolz @ Paraelix :P

Dexter099
10-10-2009, 15:30
Power Familiar
Dispel Scroll

I'm pretty sure that you can only have one arcane item per character, the only exception being multiple common arcane items. Pick one or the other. 25 points saved.

The Sorcerer Lord is likewise illegal. Switch his Skull of Katam with the Rod of Torment. As for the black tongue, I find giving away one wound generally not a good tradeoff point for point. Take the biting blade and some other magic item, and/or the word of agony.

As for your list, it has some major problems. You're spending your points very ineffectively, by paying 30 points to mark each warrior squad, while if oyu combined the 3 squads into bulkier squads of 2, you would just save 30 points off the bat. You also really don't need to give the squads both great weapons and shields. I'd recommend doing this with Chosen, but certainly not with your regular warriors. Stick with shields. 60 more points saved.

vinny t
10-10-2009, 16:34
The Dispel Scroll doesn't count as an Arcane Item, so he's ok.

As for the list, I actually like it. Some of the magic items arn't optomized but oh well. It seems like a very different style list that one sees on the internet and for that I applaud you.

The one thing that I'm not the hugest fan of is the lone chariot. Get rid of it and maybe get a Warshrine.

Eta
10-10-2009, 16:56
The Sorcerer Lord is likewise illegal. Switch his Skull of Katam with the Rod of Torment.

Why is he illegal? He has no more than 100 points of magic items, one being a talisman, one an enchanted item...

Greetings
Eta

-Epimetheus-
13-10-2009, 17:57
I'm pretty sure that you can only have one arcane item per character, the only exception being multiple common arcane items. Pick one or the other. 25 points saved.

Wait, what? I thought that dispel scrolls didn't count towards that because they were common arcane items.....

So, is this a problem, or not? I see vinny t says it's okay, but is it?


The Sorcerer Lord is likewise illegal. Switch his Skull of Katam with the Rod of Torment. As for the black tongue, I find giving away one wound generally not a good tradeoff point for point. Take the biting blade and some other magic item, and/or the word of agony.

Skull of Katam is an arcane item, Rod of Torment is a talisman. Isn't that allowed?

As for the reasoning for this - although my sorcerer would take a wound, it would force a miscast, which can be modified by infernal puppet. The damage done would be more than worth the wound, and the 50 pts, and the threat value will be excellent. At least, that's what I'm planning on testing.

And a 3 wound character taking a wound is still harder to kill than a 2 wound character taking a wound. And both would hurt my magic power.....


As for your list, it has some major problems. You're spending your points very ineffectively, by paying 30 points to mark each warrior squad, while if oyu combined the 3 squads into bulkier squads of 2, you would just save 30 points off the bat. You also really don't need to give the squads both great weapons and shields. I'd recommend doing this with Chosen, but certainly not with your regular warriors. Stick with shields. 60 more points saved.

Of course this is not efficient. It is versatile however. I have the option of using the shields (if the armour save will be more valuable), or the great weapons (if the extra strength is needed), and since I do not have anything that can deal high strength attacks against a specific target, I need some kind of versatility, or I will get smoked by something as simple as a giant.....

Although it is not as good against something like goblins, or even those puny elves I'm going to be facing, it is more useful against something like a giant.

Now, maybe I'm completely insane with this line of thought, and if I am, I will gladly come back here and admit it. But I think it's worth a shot - especially since I'm not a competitive player, and am willing to try something unusual/impulsive/unpredictable.

@ vinny t - Thanks.

There is not a single chariot - there is a chariot as a mount, and an additional chariot. My other plan was to use a level 4 demon prince of nurgle, and not have the sorcerer lord or the 2 chariots..... That is still an option, but I have the chariots, but no demon prince, so for the time being, I'm stuck with what I've got.

A warshrine sounds interesting however. I will have to think on that one.

Ξ H2O Ξ
13-10-2009, 19:59
If ur set on magic heavy book of secrets is nice, i take over the power fam cause gives u a dice and the option of casting a spell

I said option of casting a spell and also giving u a power dice. Just beacause u can cast a spell through the BoS doesn't mean u have to, whereas a power fam. only grants u and extra dice...
Also getting munched by a -insert some big nasty here- for deinate or using a risky cast on the BoS to get away. I know which i'd rather.

H2O

<EDIT> would like to remove the beetchy tone that this read like. Was intended to more a wise, but ill informed, tone of voice.

Paraelix
14-10-2009, 02:36
I said option of casting a spell and also giving u a power dice. Just beacause u can cast a spell through the BoS doesn't mean u have to, whereas a power fam. only grants u and extra dice...
Also getting munched by a -insert some big nasty here- for deinate or using a risky cast on the BoS to get away. I know which i'd rather.

H2O

<EDIT> would like to remove the beetchy tone that this read like. Was intended to more a wise tone of voice.

Book of Secrets effects ALL miscasts... Not just those when casting the spell from the book. Furthermore, a power familiar generates a power dice usable by anyone (it is added to the pool).