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Darkness_of_the_wolf
09-10-2009, 12:32
ok for the first debate I want to adress:

are pred's good, and im talking 120 Auto cannon Las cannon build.

also: what is everyones thoughts on the sky claws? 3 points more for a backpack and counting as fast attack but being limited to 10 a squad, is the extra 7 points worth it to put the Claws on bikes instead for fast attack?

BrainFireBob
09-10-2009, 12:43
You'll get more responses in Tactics.

And that's considered the optimal Pred loadout this edition. Ironic, since in last edition it was the exact opposite.

havokas
09-10-2009, 12:46
i would only take a predator if you needed something thats only slightly cheaper than long fangs, they allow you to split your fire so you can just take 2 las cannons and 3 heavy bolters effectivly.

skyclaws are great if you can get over the loss of 5 men. just dont let them try to do things alone. make sure you assult units that you can take on effectivly, if you want a distraction unit or something to tie up enemy elites while you mop up the rest of their army then go with frensian wolves.
3 points isn't really much for what you get. you can still give upgrades for weapons and you can move much faster without paying for a transport. which kills spacewolves because the limit of 10 in a transport (hence 15 man squads can be stupid)

skyclaws need a unit attachment i belive, a rune priest to be shooting jaws of the world wolf at special characters and large threats, or a wolf priest to give prefered enemy against whatever you need. if you have room for points throwing in a wolf guard with jump-pack wouldent hurt

Karhedron
09-10-2009, 12:54
I believe both Skyclaws and Swiftclaws are quite viable units. They both move 12" and assault 6" without the need for a transport. In fact 10 Skyclaws are cheaper than 10 Blood Claws in a Rhino or Drop Pod. How do they compare against each other?

Skyclaws are cheap.
They can have a MOTW which is a cheap and handy equaliser.
They can only be led by an IC (unless GW FAQ the Wolf Guard entry).
They can ignore terrain.

Swiftclaws cost more (both points and ).
They are +1T which helps offset the fact that most opponents will be hitting them on 3s.
They have twin-linked bolters which they can fire before assaulting. This makes them shootier than even Grey Hunters.
They can be led by a WG if you don't want to splash out on an IC (indeed they should eb led since you don't want to waste their firepower).

Overall I would say that Swiftclaws have the edge but Skyclaws are still good.

Narf
09-10-2009, 12:58
alas you cant attach WG with JP's to the sky claws, even though is an option for the WG :? (also with the cost of WG with JP's or even with bikes it turns me off the bikerclaws, and see no point in adding one to the skyclaws)

i'd go with the combat load out and forget any special weapons in them entirely and no IC, they can have 1-3 attack PF, 2-8 attacks with rending, and 16-32 attacks normal on charge or being charged, plus they carry krak so can be useful against most vehicles

also for 120 pts (or thereabouts) you can get 3 LF's with 2 lascannon's, hiding in a rhino and shooting out the top hatch's, far better than the pred. or you can get 6 LF's with 3 HB and 2 las's for 150ish points.

personally i'd go with auto/HB preds for anit infantry, and ML LF's for anti vehicle

Hellgore
09-10-2009, 14:59
You'll get more responses in Tactics.

And that's considered the optimal Pred loadout this edition. Ironic, since in last edition it was the exact opposite.

Wha? Not in my book and not in other forums I read. 85 pts for ACHB - Dakka Pred ftw. 4th ed was all about allout-lascan w/machinespirit - that rocked!

beeny13
11-10-2009, 03:49
I keep comparing the wolves to the normal marines. assault marines pay a 35 point premium for a 2 attack powerfist. whereas swiftclaws get that extra attack only on the charge, plus another up to 9 attacks on the charge, but lose bolt pistol shots equaling a little more stopping power as they hit on 3 and have ap. also regular marines can pack flamers and use them, but swiftclaws can't shoot within 6".

assault marines seem better, they do a lot more. swiftclaws seem cheaper, but you can get a jump pack chaplain for just 115, and jumping wolfpriests cost a bit more.

i don't think that assault marines do all that much in assault, i think that the main killing power is the hidden fist which is diminished.

as far as bikes go. you lose relentless rapid fire for 1 attack. the attack bike is cheaper, but all of these claws can't fire within 6" which is the main strength of a bike unit. the amount of firepower, and falling back out of range when shot.

however the swiftclaws are a reasonable amount points for a godlike hq to jump around with.