PDA

View Full Version : 1/2 points back - Goblins rejoice!



Odin
09-10-2009, 14:06
Well, it appears from "rumours" about the Skaven book (at this stage, not really rumours any more) that clanrats and skavenslaves have options for shields at a cost of 1/2 a point. It's been a long time since we had half points in Warhammer, but I think it's a very necessary move. In the old O&G book, Goblins were too cheap. In the new book they're a point more expensive and they're overpriced. Problem is, when the models are that cheap, an increase of a point is 50% of the cost, which is hardly fine-tuning!

So, I think we can expect Goblins to finally be costed fairly - i.e. 1/2 point cheaper than they are at present. I'd expect the spears to also be 1/2 a point. I think that might just fix the Goblin problem.

And I think we can all cope with the maths, thank you.

This is good news.

Lord Khabal
09-10-2009, 14:09
Cant wait for a special character that costs 523,5 pts!!!! :)

It is a good move.

brendel
09-10-2009, 14:27
It will be along time before the O&G book is revised, did'nt they make the orc's cheaper to make up for the over priced goblins though.

valdrog
09-10-2009, 14:41
Yeah, and then they gave us the new and improved Animosity table which is like giving someone icecream and then slamming it on their face when they start eating it.

Shiodome
09-10-2009, 14:46
mmmmm ice cream assault *drools*

Avian
09-10-2009, 14:50
...did'nt they make the orc's cheaper to make up for the over priced goblins though.
Kind of (Boyz got a bit better in some areas, but they didn't get cheaper and in other areas they got worse) but if that was the intent it didn't work. :p

w3rm
09-10-2009, 14:56
Yeah over priced gobbo's and cheaper ors only works in a mixed army not in a pure gobbo army.

Tokamak
09-10-2009, 15:05
Goblins should be one point less. End of.

Avian
09-10-2009, 15:15
Common Goblins: light armour, shield, 3 pts
Night Goblins: shield, 3 pts
(spears +1/2, bows replace shield for free)

Midevil216
09-10-2009, 15:30
Ahhh. I remember the ole' 1/2 point days :)

And the days when the undead were all one army, and when the Vampire general died the whole army instantly dissapeared with no tests.

The good ole' days................

ZeroTwentythree
09-10-2009, 16:10
The way low & medium point infantry costs were dropping, they really needed to bring this back to fine tune the bottom end of the spectrum. I think it's a great step in the right direction.

Odin
09-10-2009, 16:17
It will be along time before the O&G book is revised, did'nt they make the orc's cheaper to make up for the over priced goblins though.

I don't think it will be too long - I'd guess about 2 years - O&G tend to be released fairly soon after a new edition of WHFB, and we pretty much know the next edition will be next summer/autumn.

And yes, they kind of made Orcs better (although Animosity is now awful), but that doesn't help an all-Gobbo army, and it doesn't help the internal balance of the army. In the old book, Gobbos were a far better option than Orcs, and in the new book, Orcs are a far better option than Gobbos.


Goblins should be one point less. End of.

That's how much they used to cost, and they were far too cheap. So, no.

Though that was before they mucked up the animosity rule, obviously. But I expect the next book will fix that at the same time.

Malorian
09-10-2009, 18:16
I'm not to happy about the half points... I mean it's all numbers in the end but where do you draw the line? quarter points? eighth points?

Odin
09-10-2009, 18:21
I'm not to happy about the half points... I mean it's all numbers in the end but where do you draw the line? quarter points? eighth points?

I'd draw the line at half points, as GW did for years before deciding we were all too dumb to cope with it.

scarletsquig
09-10-2009, 18:46
Half points are a great idea, if not overused. 5th edition used the damn things everywhere and without a good reason.

They should be restricted to really cheap troops that need the half point to be balanced properly.

Take Empire Halberdiers as an example... currently 5 points, no-one takes them, 4 points would be too low, everyone would grab halberdier hordes... 4 1/2 points would be perfect though.

Malorian
09-10-2009, 19:50
Take Empire Halberdiers as an example... currently 5 points, no-one takes them, 4 points would be too low, everyone would grab halberdier hordes... 4 1/2 points would be perfect though.

I don't know about that...


Anyway, we'll have to see how much they use it...

selone
09-10-2009, 20:23
Goblins indeed could use half points.Having played WFB 3rd,4th,5th and 7th I'm used to half points

Condottiere
09-10-2009, 22:01
Easiest would be just to double the unit and upgrade costs and put the default game at 4000-4500 points.

Avian
09-10-2009, 22:14
You can't do that without rewriting all the army books, while - as we have just been shown - you can introduce half points any time you want to.

So your suggestions would be quite far from "easiest". :p

Urgat
09-10-2009, 23:03
Ah, about bloody time they went back on that.
Yes, I do rejoice :) (even if it's the bloody vermin that benefits from it, for now :p )


Easiest would be just to double the unit and upgrade costs and put the default game at 4000-4500 points.

No, easiest is half points? :eyebrows:

Gobbies
10-10-2009, 09:53
Half points are great, they should also bring back the rule that allowed an extra hero for every thousand points in an all goblin army

Condottiere
10-10-2009, 11:57
That's a slippery slope.

Shiodome
10-10-2009, 12:00
sliding all the way down to goblins being good?

Griefbringer
10-10-2009, 12:02
I'm not to happy about the half points... I mean it's all numbers in the end but where do you draw the line? quarter points? eighth points?

I would think that anything under 0.1 points would be unnecessarily fiddly.

isidril93
10-10-2009, 12:03
sounds like a good idea

Condottiere
10-10-2009, 12:11
Decimal points are more interesting with multiplicators, which this game hasn't incorporated into it's mechanics.

Commodus Leitdorf
10-10-2009, 13:43
Take Empire Halberdiers as an example... currently 5 points, no-one takes them, 4 points would be too low, everyone would grab halberdier hordes... 4 1/2 points would be perfect though.

Actually the ability to take a charge would be perfect for them, not whether or not they're 5 or 4 1/2 points.

I wouldn't rejoice until such time as I see it applied to goblins in the form of the next O&G book. Right now im just looking at an experiment that may or may not be picked up on. Heres hoping for the best!

Sarevok
10-10-2009, 18:47
We don't need half points back

We just need to stop charging for equipment on a per model basis
Similar to the way Chaos Marks are

spetswalshe
10-10-2009, 20:57
Yeah, and then they gave us the new and improved Animosity table which is like giving someone icecream and then slamming it on their face when they start eating it.

That is a pretty goblin way of making an army book, though.

knightime98
11-10-2009, 04:13
Take Empire Halberdiers as an example... currently 5 points, no-one takes them, 4 points would be too low, everyone would grab halberdier hordes... 4 1/2 points would be perfect though.

I'd only ever take Empire Halberdiers if they were 2 points. That's what they are worth. Seriously, they suck! 2 pts is cheap enough that you could use them to bait frenzied troops and such. They won't ever win a combat.


Actually the ability to take a charge would be perfect for them, not whether or not they're 5 or 4 1/2 points.


This is indeed a very big part of their problem. It is not the "halberd" weapons that is the problem it is the troop carrying it. Look at Chaos Chosen with Halberds with Mark of Nurgle. Sure they are expensive but try to hit them, then wound them, then have them fail their save... That's asking for a lot of ifs, buts, and and's.... The opposite is true of Empire Halberds.. you HIT them.. you WOUND them.. they DIE! that simple! It also isn't likely they'll ever get a charge off either against a wary opponent.

Condottiere
11-10-2009, 08:35
You won't get much for two points, and certainly not a Halberdier.

Fredmans
11-10-2009, 17:45
By the time O&G are revisited, GW will conclude that the current Gobbos are hideously underpriced since some people are still rumoured to occasionally use them. Expect them to cost 3.5 points instead. ;)

/Fredmans

BSRuben
11-10-2009, 18:52
Wouldn't it be a good one to just make them 1 point cheaper (like when my Goblin playing friend was not depressed :P) and give the option of Shield + Spear for 1 point?
That would both fix the problem and keep the 1/2 points away.

KevinC
11-10-2009, 23:26
Well I'm fine with 1/2 points coming back, but I think the best way to solve the issue is to offer cheap/weak troops (i.e. Goblins, Halflings, etc) equipment choices as a single unit upgrade.

For example, a unit of Goblins may be armed with spears for +15 points. The larger the unit the better deal the Goblin player gets, which solves the equipment pricing at the same time as encouraging large units.

Kevin out

KevinC
11-10-2009, 23:27
BTW, fellow O&G players, if you're hoping for a new O&G book, I would not get your hopes up. The earliest would be like late 2011, but probably later...

Kevin out

Gazak Blacktoof
11-10-2009, 23:32
the best way to solve the issue is to offer cheap/weak troops (i.e. Goblins, Halflings, etc) equipment choices as a single unit upgrade.

I agree, that's certainly the way I'd have prefered it too. Half points are fine though.

Shimmergloom
12-10-2009, 00:50
I really get sick of the myth that orcs got cheaper.

In 6th edition they were 5pts w/choppa and light armor.

In 7th edition they are 5pts w/choppa and light armor.

There was no change whatsoever in their points costs or equipment. Only in their special rules.

In 6th 10 orcs in combat generated 1 power or dispel dice if within 12" of a shaman(which was easy to do in those days when you could not target like-sized characters within 4" of a unit unless they were the closest model). And orcs got +1S w/choppas when charging.

In 7th you now need 20 orcs to get the bonus, you can no longer generate dispel dice at all, but instead will lose dispel dice if 20 orcs are fleeing.

Further choppas get +1S in the first round regardless(not as useful as people will claim, cause dead orcs can't use this ability) and whoopee, they can parry. Something all other infantry everywhere(even freaking ogres and bull centaurs) could do in 6th.

So with this trend of getting new rules an edition later than everyone else, expect common orcs to be allowed one 25pt magic banner in 8th edition. Something basically ALL other basic infantry is getting now in 7th, but orcs do not have.

Urgat
12-10-2009, 02:09
Well I'm fine with 1/2 points coming back, but I think the best way to solve the issue is to offer cheap/weak troops (i.e. Goblins, Halflings, etc) equipment choices as a single unit upgrade.

For example, a unit of Goblins may be armed with spears for +15 points. The larger the unit the better deal the Goblin player gets, which solves the equipment pricing at the same time as encouraging large units.

Kevin out

Yeah, it's often been argued, and pretty much everybody agrees on that. That being said, if the tales about GW checking forums such as warseer are true, there's no way they don't know that idea, so it's pretty clear they don't want that, for some reason of their own. So, at least, half points are, indeed, a good alternative.
Oh, and I don't want 1pt spear plus shield upgrades, like BSRuben proposed. I don't want spears on my common gobs, so I definitively don't want to have to buy them to get the shields that, on the other hand, they need. Horrible deal that'd be. That's not options anymore, that's anb horrid "everything or nothing" bundle :/

TheDean04
12-10-2009, 02:49
Yeah, and then they gave us the new and improved Animosity table which is like giving someone icecream and then slamming it on their face when they start eating it.

wow, I'm trying to find a reason to quote this but I have none. One of the funniest things I have read in awhile, thank you. :)

Odin
12-10-2009, 13:18
...

Further choppas get +1S in the first round regardless(not as useful as people will claim, cause dead orcs can't use this ability) and whoopee, they can parry. Something all other infantry everywhere(even freaking ogres and bull centaurs) could do in 6th.

Yes, but all those other infantry didn't get +1S on the charge with their weapons.


So with this trend of getting new rules an edition later than everyone else, expect common orcs to be allowed one 25pt magic banner in 8th edition. Something basically ALL other basic infantry is getting now in 7th, but orcs do not have.

Empire basic infantry don't have magic banners. Marauders of Chaos don't have magic banners. Plently of 7th edition basic infantry don't have magic banners.

Fenrir
12-10-2009, 13:51
Hey - Don't knock him off that high horse by pointing out the inconsistencies in his claims!

Ward.
12-10-2009, 13:58
Half points are great, they should also bring back the rule that allowed an extra hero for every thousand points in an all goblin army

I'd prefere it if they did bring back the extra hero every thousand points (so long as there was a way to limit shaman spam).

I regularly get my ass handed to me by OnG though, which makes me wish goblins cost 5 points each.

Onisuzume
12-10-2009, 14:06
You won't get much for two points, and certainly not a Halberdier.
Well, 3 points nets you a human with WS4 and a hand weapon...
So 3 points for a WS3 human with a halberd might be possible...
Anyway, isn't the point of halberdiers to counter-assault a unit in the flank (detachments)?

But yeah, halberdiers as they are aren't much for taking a charge.
Then again, the only Empire infantry good at that would be the swordsmen (due to parry rule) and spearmen I think.

But as stated before: it'll probably be a while before the O&G will get a new army book.

Avian
12-10-2009, 14:22
Well, 3 points nets you a human with WS4 and a hand weapon...
Where, exactly? The closest I can think of is a Marauder, which is 4 pts to start with.

Odin
12-10-2009, 16:17
Anyway, no need to wait for a new book. We (my regular group of opponents) have agreed a number of changes to the rulebooks we use, and with the return of 1/2 points have knocked Gobbos down to 2.5 points, and the spear/shortbow upgrade to 0.5 points. We've also fixed Animosity.

Ah, the joy of having no interest in tournaments... we can just fix all of GW's mistakes.

Shimmergloom
12-10-2009, 18:11
Marauders have marks, which might as well be banners, as they behave in much the same way as magic banners.

And +1S on the charge is still inferior to the GW's, lances, flails that other units already had that gave +1S or +2S on the charge or in the first round, etc.

It wasn't something brand new, it was just a new type of weapon that did the same thing that other armies and units better weapons did, much better.

Onisuzume
13-10-2009, 13:40
Where, exactly? The closest I can think of is a Marauder, which is 4 pts to start with.
Warriors of Ulric from the Cult of Ulric list (WD 289 I think it was). :p
Although they start at 5 points in an army of middenheim(land?) list.

Rioghan Murchadha
15-10-2009, 20:46
Yes, but all those other infantry didn't get +1S on the charge with their weapons.



Empire basic infantry don't have magic banners. Marauders of Chaos don't have magic banners. Plently of 7th edition basic infantry don't have magic banners.

If your army is led by either Karl Franz, or a generic General of the Empire, one unit of state troops may take a magic standard worth up to 50 pts.