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Urath
09-10-2009, 15:30
Hello, I apologise if this has been discussed recently or if there is simply no fact regarding this weapon of "unknown" origin. O'Shovah and the Farsight Enclaves are the only thing I've ever found remotely interesting about the Tau, aside from their technology.

Is it actually known what O'Shovah's sword is, where it came from and why he turned his back on the Empire?

El_Machinae
09-10-2009, 15:48
It's probably some type of corruption, though it would be cool if it was actual independence.

But he's the reason why I think the Tau are going to suffer growing pains, and why their exponential growth cannot be maintained. Their system of government requires near-direct contact from their leaders on a long-term basis, and so they don't seem able to maintain a government when the colonies are weeks apart (travel time).

DoombringerATT
09-10-2009, 16:43
And yet there is next to nothing supporting El_Machinae's statement.

In fact, there is plenty to support a counter-argument, that near direct contact with the 'ruling' Ethereal Caste is a relative rarity. Many colonies go decades, or even centuries, without an Aun ever setting foot on the dirt, and many expeditionary fleets go into the black without an Aun present aboard their ships.

To state that the Tau cannot maintain these colonies when they are weeks apart is ridiculous. That's the point of having the Greater and Lesser Septs, overseeing the local colonies as independent governments of their own, under the watchful supervision of the High Council on T'au. The article on XV8 Weapons Configurations that used to be hosted on the Games Workshop website said as much - that the Tau now realize that central control is ultimately impossible.


Without telepathic abilities, communication between septs is slow. Just as the Imperium has discovered, the Tau now realize that central control of a galactic empire is impractical and inefficient. The Tau Ethereals therefore provide local leadership, facilitating greater dynamism within each sept. All septs have a branch of the Shas'ar'tol, the Fire caste's high command. It is responsible to the Ethereal caste for all military intelligence, operational planning and recruitment within that sept. Most Shas'ar'tol maintain a military academy where distinguished Shas'o and Shas'el can pass their experience on to the next generation of Fire caste soldiers. Each Shas'ar'tol's training regime is based on the expertise of its commandants and is therefore unique. There are inevitably a mass of techniques each has in common though. For example, Drone deployment patterns are standardized across all septs in order to utilize the most efficient programs.

Their system is flexible enough to allow for growth, and doesn't require the near constant presence of Ethereals to remain efficiently run.

Farsight is an anomaly, plain and simple. A Shas getting detached from his Aun is not cause enough to simply defect. Some other factor must be pressuring or have pressured Farsight to leave the Empire and establish his colonies in the Gulf.

Iracundus
09-10-2009, 16:49
Farsight was embittered from his experiences, supposedly because he felt he was inadequately supported against the Orks.

Obviously Ethereals are too rare for constant regular contact for all but the higher echelons. Tau education/propganda would be the likely main bulwark keeping Tau loyal. However, Ethereal contact may be the final thing that keeps the Tau loyal, when there are other stressors that strain their loyalty or faith in the Greater Good. If Farsight's Ethereal had not been killed (and we still don't know by whom or whether it was Farsight himself), perhaps Farsight would have been an embittered grumbling veteran, but one that did not take the final step into rebellion and secession.

Farsight's quote to me suggests it is ideological disillusionment:



Each must find their own way. If those in our heartland had witnessed the savageries of the void as have we they would know this. The hand of each of the great starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we.

It looks like he has seen how the other great races are all locked in hatred and distrust, and refuse to work together even if it may mean their common good because they are too entrenched in their old hatreds. Unfortunately he seems to have drawn the conclusion that that is the proper way of doing things.

While it is tempting to blame his Dawn Blade as the corrupting artifact, that is overly simplistic. We don't know what kind of artifact it is (could be Chaos, Necron, or some other unknown minor race) and it may just be a simply some fancy blade after all with no particular sinister effects.

El_Machinae
09-10-2009, 19:02
In fact, there is plenty to support a counter-argument, that near direct contact with the 'ruling' Ethereal Caste is a relative rarity. Many colonies go decades, or even centuries, without an Aun ever setting foot on the dirt, and many expeditionary fleets go into the black without an Aun present aboard their ships.

I do not think that's true. Maybe I'm behind on my fluff.

Mannimarco
09-10-2009, 19:08
the dawn blade and farsights backstory, you really do have to love all these theories surrounding it, not being spoon fed and being overly simplistic makes for a more interesting story

so heres some theories:

its a necron thing

its a chaos artifact

its an eldar artifact

so lets look at some of these in more detail:

previous Tau codex says somthing about there being fighting on the planet where farsight got his sword and his ethereals were killed, there was confusion as to who the enemy was meaning it could be an enemy the Tau have never encountered before (possibly necrons) people against this theory will cite the current Tau codex where its possible that farsight killed his ethereals himself (dont have the codex so cant quote) although (and this is a theory shared by more than a few) the necron theory does hold some weight (relic worlds/tomb worlds) as another planet that is very close to a relic world was abandoned by the tau for undisclosed reasons (i think its N'dras and the relic world Q15)

its a chaos artifact: might go some way to explaining farsights (and his followers) love of close combat and supposed long life (hes 300yo or somthing, Tau dont live anywhere near this long) those against this theory will say that farsight is in no way khornate (yeah he's red and can take 8 bodyguard, 8 being khornes number) however wasnt red the original colour of Viorla? IIRC the armour plates were a dark red colour where now their green with a red stripe or somthing, farsight doesnt go around collecting skulls or go all "hulk smash" on his enemies either so isnt exactly chaotic and khronate, his loce fo close combat (against the teachings of the Tau'va) could easily be explained by the fact he made his name fighting orks, when your enemy is orks your going to experience hand to hand so you better get good at it

its an eldar artifact: going by xenology the eldar might have had somthing to do with the Tau evolution, its also theorised that the warp capable ship found by the tau as they were starting to expand and explore their neighboring planets was left there by the eldar for them to find (eldar: see quorl queen and ethereal head diamonds) and look at the shape and runes on the weapon, definately more eldar looking than necron or chaotic, its another fan thoery that the sword is one of the swords of vaul or whatever they are called

remember that farsight was already very bitter against the establishment that he had be left to slug it out against the orks while reinforcements were slow to come to his aid, its possible that after being messed around by the ethereals (in his eyes anyway) he just thought screw this and went off and did his own thing

Triszin The Wrath God
09-10-2009, 19:18
farsight's blade reminds me of the old pre-heresey melee weapons for the thousand suns. if you look in the collected visions you see a picture of them and they look almost identical. maybe it is a lost relic of Magnus?

Mannimarco
09-10-2009, 19:21
thats pretty far out on the eastern fringes for the thousand sons to go though is it not?

dang i gotta find a star chart

Urath
09-10-2009, 19:22
It seems like he's based off of Walter Kurtz, from Apocalypse, Now. For those who haven't seen it, Kurtz is an American Special Forces Colonel, fighting in the Vietnam War. After spending some time in the jungles, he learns that the only way to fight the Vietcong, is by fighting "fire with fire". He ascends to godhood amongst a local tribe while he and his former unit commit "atrocities" against the Vietnamese and Vietcong, being percieved as monsters by his former government but, in his eyes, acting for the greater good of America.

Thanks for the quick responses guys, some interesting stuff. I just thought I'd throw in my two pennies from what I've learnt.

Edit:http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html It may not be the best, but it's good enough; and detailed.

Bregalad
09-10-2009, 19:32
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110750
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73909
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23020
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26442
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158805

djinn8
09-10-2009, 19:56
thats pretty far out on the eastern fringes for the thousand sons to go though is it not?

dang i gotta find a star chart

Ask and you shall recieve: http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html

Mánagarmr
09-10-2009, 20:02
It seems like he's based off of Walter Kurtz, from Apocalypse, Now.

It wouldn't be the first time that this was the motivation behind a character in WH40K.

GreenDracoBob
09-10-2009, 20:45
I am inclined to believe he is more personally motivated to defect from the Empire, rather than having been influenced by some nefarious greater power, be it Chaos or the C'Tan. He's just a guy who has an aggressive battle strategy and an obsessive hatred of Orks. Add to this a government that would not offer him and his troops support in the face of this threat, and he is easily disillusioned.

DoombringerATT
09-10-2009, 21:59
I do not think that's true. Maybe I'm behind on my fluff.

You are behind on your fluff.

There have been three or four instances in Tau fluff, available in publications ranging from White Dwarf to Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, stating so - that the Ethereals are not ever present on every colony or on every fleet, and that in some cases, it can be decades or centuries between Ethereal visits. Kronus, in Dark Crusade, is one such colony.

LexxBomb
10-10-2009, 03:30
Farsight has to be independant of the Etherals... cannon has stated that the Tau are immune to the effects of Chaos and cannot be possessed - this goes back to the novel Firewarrior.

Triszin The Wrath God
10-10-2009, 03:49
i call bullocks. on that tau cannot be possessed/ affected by chaos. i would say its more difficult than humans.

DoombringerATT
10-10-2009, 04:01
Indeed.

Actually, Fire Warrior actually proved that Tau could be possessed/manipulated by daemonic forces, and the Greater Daemon Tarkh'ax said as much when discussing how difficult it would have been to use the Aun'el as a vessel, despite succeeding in turning La'Kais' broken psyche to the ministrations of Khorne momentarily.

It's never been that they couldn't be possessed. It's just that possession/manipulation/what-have-you is incredibly difficult when compared to doing so with humans.

Games Workshop even created Daemonhunters scenarios/background/models of a Tau crisis suit being ripped apart by the physically warped pilot within.

---

No, an entire army of Tau probably wouldn't be feasible, but onesies and twosies? Sure.

Triszin The Wrath God
10-10-2009, 06:34
would be fun to see a tzeenecht deamon possess a ethereal and cause some trouble!

Son of Sanguinius
10-10-2009, 07:21
its an eldar artifact: going by xenology the eldar might have had somthing to do with the Tau evolution, its also theorised that the warp capable ship found by the tau as they were starting to expand and explore their neighboring planets was left there by the eldar for them to find (eldar: see quorl queen and ethereal head diamonds) and look at the shape and runes on the weapon, definately more eldar looking than necron or chaotic, its another fan thoery that the sword is one of the swords of vaul or whatever they are called

It used to be settled for me that it was not only a sword of vaul, but THE sword of vaul. Anaris, which apparently means the Dawnlight, is the most powerful sword ever made by the smith-god. Farsight wields a mysterious and awesome blade called the Dawn Blade.

However, Games Workshop does tend to get bad about reusing names and using extremely similar names for different things. My absolute favorite (read: the most insanely frustrating) is that there is a Greater Demon called U'zuhl trapped in Archaon's sword, the Slayer of Kings. And then there is the lesser demon U'Zhul, who also happens to be called the Slayer of Kings. :wtf:

And as far as it has been explained to me, they are not the same entity. :rolleyes:

Bregalad
10-10-2009, 10:01
Actually, Fire Warrior actually proved that Tau could be possessed/manipulated by daemonic forces, and the Greater Daemon Tarkh'ax said as much when discussing how difficult it would have been to use the Aun'el as a vessel, despite succeeding in turning La'Kais' broken psyche to the ministrations of Khorne momentarily.
Actually, that demon confirmed that he sees a chance of corrupting a Tau only in one of a million fire warriors (giving up on ethereals after tests/torture), then he tries to do it with such a fire warrior, who arrives completely exhausted, tries it with all four major realms in a row, doesn't succeed in any of those attempts and got destroyed by said fire warrior afterwards. I wouldn't call that a proof that all Tau can be possessed, not at all.:rolleyes:
But that is off topic here and has been discussed to death multiple times before.

AndrewGPaul
10-10-2009, 12:41
Ask and you shall recieve: http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html

I've found at least one error, so there may be others; for some reason, despite the 4th edition Codex: Tyranids saying Ymgarl is in the Galactic north-west, that map puts it in the south-east. It's got the Squat Homeworlds in Segmentum Pacificus (at least, what everyoine else's maps call Segmentum Pacificus). Still, the Tau empire is in roughly the right place.

Vesica
10-10-2009, 13:58
Farsight is an anomaly, plain and simple. A Shas getting detached from his Aun is not cause enough to simply defect. Some other factor must be pressuring or have pressured Farsight to leave the Empire and establish his colonies in the Gulf.

He grew a brain?

Never been a fan of Tau, something about them irritates me...but then again i never have been a huge fan of Xenos

Urath
10-10-2009, 13:58
Yeah, I linked that map one post before. People should really check these things :p

Sunyavadin
10-10-2009, 14:10
My Farsight army's design is treating the Dawn Blade as being Anaris, the Sword of Dawn, the final blade forged by Vaul to battle Khaine, wielded by Eldanesh and subsequently lost. I'm going off the idea that Farsight discovered it along with a large amount of knowledge about the Eldar including their manipulation of the Tau through the engineering of the Ethereals utilising Q'orl biology...

Col. Tartleton
10-10-2009, 15:33
^Preached that theory for years now.

My reason why its only a sick weapon and not ZOMG one man army, kill the C'tan like fo' easy is that its completely innert because he's not an eldar or even a psyker.

In the hands of a "child" its simply a weapon, in the hands of its makers its a WMD. Farsight killed the small force guarding it IMO, and the Eldar don't really care because he's been keeping it out of enemy hands, so what the heck, if he wants to beat some orks to death with it let him, he's not doing any harm.

I'm pretty sure however its just political reasons why he left, the Aun said something nasty to him about taking the sword, he laughed and then shot the guy. Farsight was already an eccentric loose cannon before the departure IMO. He had severe neurosis and a growing dislike for the government and authority he had been entrusted with. One day he said "screw you guys, I'm going home", had anyone who protested shot, took what remained of his divisions and took them off to find greener pastures. He found them, turned them into fortresses and he's been hiding out with his private army for decades while the orks he hates batter his strongholds with everything they have.

That option makes it less of a conspiracy and more a series of events. His sword is a big deal, but on the other hand he isn't working for the eldar, he's just a crazy old general leading a private war against his hated enemy. History is full of them.

Iracundus
10-10-2009, 15:41
My reason why its only a sick weapon and not ZOMG one man army, kill the C'tan like fo' easy is that its completely innert because he's not an eldar or even a psyker.


Why must everything be related? The only link at all between Anaris and the Dawn Blade is via the translation of Anaris as Dawnlight. The Eldar have no monopoly on the use of the word Dawn or the themes of "dawn". There are Blood Angels, worshippers of the Blood God, and Blood Axes. Are they all related? No. Different races can actually use the same word and same concept. Just as the Deceiver and Laughing God and Tzeentch can all like subtlety and deceit and tricks, without suddenly meaning they are all directly related. Dwelling on one similar detail and then using it to generalize to equate 2 things is fallacious reasoning like the following example:
1. A person has a nose.
2. A dog has a nose.
3. Therefore a person is a dog.

DoombringerATT
10-10-2009, 17:05
Actually, that demon confirmed that he sees a chance of corrupting a Tau only in one of a million fire warriors (giving up on ethereals after tests/torture), then he tries to do it with such a fire warrior, who arrives completely exhausted, tries it with all four major realms in a row, doesn't succeed in any of those attempts and got destroyed by said fire warrior afterwards. I wouldn't call that a proof that all Tau can be possessed, not at all.
But that is off topic here and has been discussed to death multiple times before.

La'Kais was lost to Chaos far before he was "turned" and began to give himself to Khorne.

As Tarkh'ax confirmed, La'Kais, with all his personality flaws and weaknesses that would normally protect another Tau, was vulnerable and being manipulated the second he made planetfall. Every little voice La'Kais heard in his mind, disguised as his own thoughts on the Mont'au "Devil", was Tarkh'ax seeding his mind with doubt and instructions to cause violence and bloodshed. There weren't even a million Fire Warriors present - but only two cadres consisting of perhaps 200-500 Shas, maximum.

He was effectively turned to Chaos for half the book, even if he didn't realize what "Chaos" was. The only things stopping him from turning completely were his focus granted by the Ethereal dreamscent, and the Sio't meditations that guarded his mind against doubt, panic, and illogic - but only just.

By the end of the book, his mind was shattered entirely. Crying "Blood for the Blood God!" and "For the Greater Good!", he destroys the daemon in a very Khorne-like fashion, losing a few limbs, and now finds himself in a coma, babbling gibberish.

As far as the Ethereal goes, Tarkh'ax told the Aun that his race was incorruptible - not because they were literally incorruptible, but because corrupting them entirely would take so much time and energy, they probably could have devoted the same amount to corrupting the entire Imperium...

If evidence of possession by a daemon is what you're looking for, then look no further than GW's own possessed battlesuit model and their Daemonhunters scenarios.

Tau are difficult to possess. Very difficult. Not impossible, though.

Just because it's been discussed multiple times before doesn't mean it can't be discussed again, with different input. And if it's so off-topic, you could have taken my post and made a new thread about it, instead of making your high and mighty "last word" and then directing me to the door.

---

As far as what this means, I'd wager and say that one reason Simon Spurrier wrote Fire Warrior the way he did was to offer some evidence that a Tau so misguided, so embittered, so doubtful, and so alone, could be corrupted, or perhaps manipulated by Chaos in some capacity.

Who else is misguided, embittered, doubtful, and alone?

Farsight.

Col. Tartleton
10-10-2009, 17:19
It doesn't have to be "Anaris" but its certainly Eldar tech.

If it was necron it would probably have a gun built in. As it is it looks like a more simplified (read archaic) version of a wraithlord's blade. It far more resembles one of these.

I'd like it to be a third party weapon, but GW tends to focus too heavily on its own flagship races and I doubt it will be revealed to be the legendary Wazdakku Kdej of the K'nib's festering warhosts.

I have no belief its Khornate, that's too obvious. Besides, 8 is the Tau unit of measure base. A squad of 8 makes sense when you have 8 fingers. IG have 10 man squads and 10 fingers...

Urath
10-10-2009, 17:20
Eight fingers and two thumbs.














Sorry.

Col. Tartleton
10-10-2009, 17:22
*cuts himself*

well on that topic tau have 6 finger and two thumbs... but they use a four/eight/twelve base system for squads generally and IG use 5/10/15/20.

Battle suits should be in four man squads, but that wouldn't be balanced.

Bregalad
10-10-2009, 18:12
La'Kais was lost to Chaos far before he was "turned" and began to give himself to Khorne. (...)

By the end of the book, his mind was shattered entirely. Crying "Blood for the Blood God!" and "For the Greater Good!", he destroys the daemon in a very Khorne-like fashion, losing a few limbs, and now finds himself in a coma, babbling gibberish.

As far as the Ethereal goes, Tarkh'ax told the Aun that his race was incorruptible - not because they were literally incorruptible, but because corrupting them entirely would take so much time and energy, they probably could have devoted the same amount to corrupting the entire Imperium...

If evidence of possession by a daemon is what you're looking for, then look no further than GW's own possessed battlesuit model and their Daemonhunters scenarios.(...)
Tarkh'ax made the remark of one in a million (too lazy now to search the quote).

Demons can talk to people with telepathy, demons can kill people, and Demons can turn a direction sign and watch people falling for that little joke, but those instances are something different than corrupting or possessing people. Yes Tarkh'ax was using telepathy with La-Kais, yes he thought he could corrupt him, and yes, he erred and died because of that. Yes, La'Kais killed the Demon that doesn't make him a Khorne adept. La'Kais ended broken but obviously uncorrupted.

Everyone can put greenstuff tentacles and spikes to crisis suits. Easy, but not relevant to background. Esp. as not even the Demonhunter Codex suggested a scenario of corrupted Tau. Ben Counter made a novel on a Demon trying to corrupt a Grey Knight (failed), Spurrier made a novel on a Demon trying to corrupt a Tau (failed). 40k doesn't provide/support omniscient points, so the best we can get is that no Grey Knight and no Tau has yet been corrupted.


Eight fingers and two thumbs.
Most languages and half the English dictionaries say that a thumb is also a finger. Strange to think otherwise.

Urath
10-10-2009, 18:37
All right, all right. It was just a joke. All humour has vanished from Warseer!

Wolfblade670
10-10-2009, 19:09
All right, all right. It was just a joke. All humour has vanished from Warseer!

Yes, that seems to be a problem as of late...

Xisor
10-10-2009, 20:44
On the point of Farsight, I rather like the idea that he isn't corrupted or controlled by any particular overarching agent but that all the points and clues and things remain. Anaris, Necrons, Alpha Legion (or was it Night Lords?) etc. When Farsight dies and someone examines his 'pie', they'll find a lot of fingers in there from a lot of places!

But his actual motivations? I like to think it's a Firewarrior out there on his own. His government didn't support him, his reinforcements didn't arrive. He had the vision and the skill, but a long line of..bureacratic and political mistakes lead to him being trapped distant from the Empire. And so he continues trying to do his best. But he isn't up to running a small Empire, he's not cut out to be that sort of leader. Such a force would still need the support of a greater 'civil mind'. I like the conjecture that, over time, experienced and veteran Fio and Por were similarly killed. The loss of the Ethereals was a 'low point' for morale, but Farsight could counteract that.

He was skilled enough for the 'loss of the Ethereal' to not be an issue. But it'd be the loss of support, the protracted casualties to the Kor, the Fio and the Por...

Personally, I like that 'tragedy' of that line of thinking. But then you can bring in an arrogance, a desperation and a strength of will which still prevents the Enclave's from falling thanks to Farsight's efforts. This keeps it rather sinister, but prevents things from being an argument over 'corruption'. Hell, you could have some of the other 'seniors' killed off through corruption. There's all of that as 'possible' too, but I do like the idea that Farsight himself hasn't actually done anything wrong as such.

Grim and tragic, but not terribly contrieved or conceited.

Mannimarco
10-10-2009, 21:36
has anybody given any thought to farsights supposed long life? i believe the Tau history was all messed up to bring in shadowsun but thats another point

it was in one of the codex that farsight is around 300 years old so how can this be? long life granted by his weapon? simply another tau taking up the mantle "farsight" and running around in his suit?

i like to think its the second one myself

Urath
10-10-2009, 21:40
I'd heard that it had been suggested that "Farsight" was now simply a title passed on to leaders or commanders of the Enclave.

ProfessorCurly
10-10-2009, 21:48
It's in the 5th edition rulebook under the Tau fluff section. Some Tau that important Tau live longer than usual. It isn't explained why, though. It's mentioned that it is almost as if their life was linked to the manifest destiny of the Tau.

GreenDracoBob
10-10-2009, 22:06
I personally see Farsight as a warlord, having left the empire that abandoned him, and now fights for survival on the edge of the Tau's realm. Maybe the enclaves have grown since the first days he left, either through the building of a new community based around martial discipline, new defectors from the Empire or a combination of both. Maybe he leads a nomadic lifestyle himself, always looking for a new war or hoping to protect the many planets now under his control. In any case, he definitely has a little bit of appeal in the mystery in regards to his motivations, his actions and even his person.

On that topic, I choose an option from the first Tau codex, which mentioned the idea that he could have extended his own life with a heavy use of bionics. If this isn't the case, I would like to see a "Dread Pirate Roberts" approach to the person of Farsight.

Sildani
11-10-2009, 00:41
"Twelve years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to extend the Tau Empire by an Ethereal court for The Greater Good. These Tau promptly escaped from Aun control to the Damocles Gulf underground. Today, still wanted by the Ethereals, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have an Ork problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... O'Shovah's team."

Mannimarco
11-10-2009, 01:13
at the end of the day theres a chance we are going to lose farsight in the next codex anyway, we're slowly but surely loosing our good characters and geting not quite so good ones in return:

aun'shi replaced by......the space pope

brightsword (o'var)......nice character from the background, good story and now hes dead

farsight.....getting his ass handed to him in the war of dakka

oh but we get shadowsun :(

and o'rmyr is half decent i suppose

Sunyavadin
11-10-2009, 02:01
"Twelve years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to extend the Tau Empire by an Ethereal court for The Greater Good. These Tau promptly escaped from Aun control to the Damocles Gulf underground. Today, still wanted by the Ethereals, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have an Ork problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... O'Shovah's team."

I suddenly have a new idea for converting members of the Seven Samurai in my army....


THANK YOU.


Also - I'm not too keen on the idea of him killing the ethereal. I see it more as him being stranded too far from Tau space when the Ethereal died unexpectedly, and before they could return to Tau territory to get a replacement (They were *quite* busy at the time), they came to their senses realising a lot of their actions under the command of the Ethereal are not things they would normally do by choice, they put two and two together, and refused to let another Ethereal get close to them.

AndrewGPaul
11-10-2009, 10:04
Now I want a Kill Team force riding around in a black Devilfish with a red stripe. :)

Let's see ...

Murdock would have to be some sort of Air Caste pilot.
Face and B.A. are Fire Caste - perhaps B.A. has a blinged-up battlesuit, while Face is a Pathfinder or Stealth Suit operator.
Hannibal, probably a rogue Ethereal or just a normal Tau commander of some sort.

Bregalad
11-10-2009, 10:21
"I love it when everything comes together for the Greater Good!";)

Kanarten
15-11-2009, 19:52
just my input,

but from what i can gather, the xenology background book by black library points towards the eldar stealing the queen of a insect race (not the vespid) and engineering the ethereals with the same control crystal found in the queens limbs. this allows the ethereals to control the rest of the tau and fight towards the greater good(ie kill chaos and the rest).
it also suggests that the tau are very long lived race but the effects of the control shorten there life span to 40-60 years.

therefore my thoughts on farsight were that an already annoyed farsight (due to the resupply problem) looses his ethereals and notices that his army becomes more free thinking and more importantly living longer so doesnt want to return to the fold for 2 reasons 1) he likes not being controlled, 2) he wants to stay alive.

this is also supported in the courage and honour book as thehuman governer mentions how when he gets near the ethereal he feels like he is being hypnotised.

Lord Damocles
15-11-2009, 19:56
it also suggests that the tau are very long lived race but the effects of the control shorten there life span to 40-60 years.
Does it? Shadowsun seems to be doing OK hyped up on all those Ethereal pheramones...

Inquisitor Engel
16-11-2009, 17:10
I think it's awesome that the Dawnblade = Sword of Vaul theory was one I original posited on Portent just after the Necron Codex came out and it has now taken on a life of its own.

What's even weirder is that, although I still like it, I've since abandoned it after being told point blank by a developer that it was a Chaos artifact at Games Day.

Mannimarco
16-11-2009, 17:52
really? dang that aint cool

Sildani
17-11-2009, 12:50
What's even weirder is that, although I still like it, I've since abandoned it after being told point blank by a developer that it was a Chaos artifact at Games Day.

Didn't you help with the Tau Empire Codex? They must really leave you guys in a vacuum if you had to ask a developer about it at a GD!

precinctomega
17-11-2009, 16:29
As with so many things in the background, the door has been deliberately left wide open on what the Dawn Blade is. However, the main reason to suppose that it was at least vaguely intended to be Anaris is that those two background ideas were generated in the GW Studio at the same time.

Of course, whether, in the long-run, this turns out to be a fact or not is impossible to predict. But I'm quite sure that it was in the minds of the designers at the time.

R.

Steel Legion for Life
18-11-2009, 00:04
I've always suspected it was a Necron artifact, tbh. If you look at the design of the sword, bear in mind a green rod would look cool in that slot, and is meant to represent an energy field, not a green rod:)

My theory is this - the ethereals are the last of the Enslavers (arch-enemies of the Necrons), and Farsight found a Necron weapon that frees you from their mind control. He then killed his enslaver ethereal and then went "rogue". I like the idea he really believes in the Tau ideals of the greater good, and is fighting for freedom:)

Also, the chant "greater good, greater good" is a reference to sinister mind control in several seventies horror movies (it's referenced in Hot Fuzz), which makes me think the ethereals are sinister and evil. Also, it's 40k! The ethereals turning out to be evil puppet masters would be horribly grimdark, and that would suit a lot of people.

Lord Damocles
18-11-2009, 18:09
...the ethereals are the last of the Enslavers (arch-enemies of the Necrons)...
How do you square Enslavers being big psychic floaty sacks with tentacles (ref: Rogue Trader Bestiary etc.) with that?

Urath
18-11-2009, 18:35
How do you square Enslavers being big psychic floaty sacks with tentacles (ref: Rogue Trader Bestiary etc.) with that?

Perhaps he's never seen an image of them, knowingly, or believes that they can shapeshift or control via telepathy etc.

Inquisitor Engel
19-11-2009, 04:07
Didn't you help with the Tau Empire Codex? They must really leave you guys in a vacuum if you had to ask a developer about it at a GD!

Rules unfortunately don't equal background. ;)

Sildani
19-11-2009, 12:59
True, not knowing how a playtester goes about his job, I thought GW might throw you some background ideas as well. I suppose they just give you some rules and say "break that", eh?

Bretonnian Lord
19-11-2009, 13:07
Perhaps he's never seen an image of them, knowingly, or believes that they can shapeshift or control via telepathy etc.

Assuming that the Dawnblade is a Necron weapon, as Steel Legion suggests, perhaps it was originally made to counteract Enslaver's telepathy. The Tau Ethereals may not be the "Enslavers," but if they control the Tau through similar means, it stands to reason that the Dawnblade would still have a similar effect (i.e. freeing its user from telepathic control)

'Course, I'm not a huge 40k buff, I dunno who/what exactly the Enslavers were. Maybe I'm completely off the mark. Just pointing out a possible answer.

Tiller5
19-11-2009, 16:27
Assuming that the Dawnblade is a Necron weapon, as Steel Legion suggests, perhaps it was originally made to counteract Enslaver's telepathy. The Tau Ethereals may not be the "Enslavers," but if they control the Tau through similar means, it stands to reason that the Dawnblade would still have a similar effect (i.e. freeing its user from telepathic control)

'Course, I'm not a huge 40k buff, I dunno who/what exactly the Enslavers were. Maybe I'm completely off the mark. Just pointing out a possible answer.


Y'know, I rather like this idea. Farsight could represent the conflict of interests between Eldar engineering of the Tau race, along with him finding a Necron relic, meaning he could basically fly in the face of both races if he felt like it!

tezdal
20-11-2009, 04:01
How do you square Enslavers being big psychic floaty sacks with tentacles (ref: Rogue Trader Bestiary etc.) with that?

How are the enslavers the Necrons arch enemys? Thats like me saying a lions my arch enemy because we both eat water buffalo....the enslavers were eating everything else, stealing all the C'tans giblets so they went to sleep. As for my opinion, Farsight just got lost on a 3 hour tour....

Steel Legion for Life
16-12-2009, 01:53
Well, the reason the Necrons went to sleep was because they realised they couldn't defeat the Enslavers.

One imagines they at least TRIED to fight them initially, with equipment very similar to what they have now -as it's what they went to sleep with! I still think the dawn blade looks like a warscythe minus lego lightsaber.

Anyway, I guess once you pick it up, you realise the ethereal is actually a big floaty blob. I assume if you are psi-powerful enough to boggle things into being loyal to you, you're powerful enough to stop them realising you're a psi-squid...

Tokugawa100
16-12-2009, 06:03
Why must everything be related? The only link at all between Anaris and the Dawn Blade is via the translation of Anaris as Dawnlight. The Eldar have no monopoly on the use of the word Dawn or the themes of "dawn". There are Blood Angels, worshippers of the Blood God, and Blood Axes. Are they all related? No. Different races can actually use the same word and same concept. Just as the Deceiver and Laughing God and Tzeentch can all like subtlety and deceit and tricks, without suddenly meaning they are all directly related. Dwelling on one similar detail and then using it to generalize to equate 2 things is fallacious reasoning like the following example:
1. A person has a nose.
2. A dog has a nose.
3. Therefore a person is a dog.


I like the idea of the sword being Anaris, its a great idea.
But I dont think the Eldar would like a Tau running around with one of the most sacred artifacts of their mythology and indeed their entire race, if this is the case.
Even if Farsight is just using it to kill orks and supposably "keeping it safe" Im sure the Eldar would feel unrelenting distrust and believe that no'one but an Eldar should have the right to even touch the blade.

It would seem blasphemous and pretty insulting to the Eldar really as they take things like this very seriously.

Imagine Biel-Tan.
Oh Boy, if thats the sword of vaul and they knew about it Farsight could kiss his fortressess good bye when his wiped out by an entire craftworld of blood thirsty space nazi elves.

Then again isnt the sword a C'tan blade made of necrodermis, a technology only the Necron have and use.
Even Eldar dont have necrodermis, or choose not to.

Tokugawa100
16-12-2009, 06:13
Enslavers (arch-enemies of the Necrons), .

Enslavers arent the arch enemies of the Necrons.
They are the equivalent of say a lion to a hyena, though the hyena eats the same stuff and eats alot they cant compete with the lions.
In this case the lions are invinsible and numberless and the hyenas are metal and know when they cant win.

I personally think Necrons have three arch enemies.

Old Ones:
Of course they are extinct "maybe" but when they lived they were the ancient enemies of the C'tan.
The C'tan ruled the material universe and the Old Ones controlled the immaterial and the material and were like a race of gods.


Eldar:
Eldar were like the necrons to the C'tan, their loyal servants who fought most of their battles.
To this day most of the Eldar plans revolve around shutting down tombs, preventing their awakening, sabotaging tomb complexes and wiping out as many tin cans as they can.

Tyranids:
This is more of a predatory rivalry, both are competing to eat more then the other and wipe out each others food supply.
Though Tyranids are more numerous then Necrons despite the assumed numbers in the hidden tombs Necrons have one thing on their side.
They can eat tyranids alot easier then Tyranids can eat them.

Tokugawa100
16-12-2009, 06:17
"Twelve years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to extend the Tau Empire by an Ethereal court for The Greater Good. These Tau promptly escaped from Aun control to the Damocles Gulf underground. Today, still wanted by the Ethereals, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have an Ork problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... O'Shovah's team."

"When theres something green, lurking in your hood"
"Who you gonna call"
"ORK-BUSTERS"
:D

Sorry but when I started reading your post I thought thats what you were getting at.