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Scorcher505
09-10-2009, 17:20
The following was posted at B&C this morning in a rumor thread about a new codex. I did not post this there, just taking it from there and reposting it here:


here we go:

-The BA 'dex is DONE and complete already.

-New conversion kits similar to the ones made for the space wolves. These kits are said to be EXTRAORDINARY (I mean.. beautiful!), with a level of detail similar to that of the models in space hulk (or even better). (PS this seems quite certain, it has been confirmed by my local GW seller, who also stated some big news about BA may be revealed at the italian games day).

SOME informations about the rules

-The codex will allow the player to field a top notch assault army: assault squads will be a troop choice, with options similar to those of the new gray hunters in the SW dex: 2Xspecial weapons and no heavy weapons at all (of course). Sergents will be similar to those of the SM dex (more options: tunder hummer, LC and such).

- a psionic power called "vortex of blood", or something like that, will give the caster a CC attacks bonus equal to the number of models in base contact (or even in combat radius?! but it would be too powerful..)

-New indipendent characters.

I can't assure these rumors are true, of course. I just TRIED to translate them in english and posted them here.

Ah, date of release: march, after the tyrs.

Thoughts?

Deamon-forge
09-10-2009, 17:23
if true sounds good. and if the plastic are like the SW kit nice one GW

Scorcher505
09-10-2009, 17:27
I am a Blood Angel player, and as much as I want to believe this, it just does not seem to be true. But the Italy Games Day is just over a week away so we will see

verydarkshadow
09-10-2009, 17:30
Well, at GDUK the designers did say that we "hadn't seen anything yet" as far as Space Marine releases were concerned. So this news makes sense to me. Sounds promising in any case.

Harry
09-10-2009, 17:35
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

The Judge
09-10-2009, 17:40
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

Dare I hope for an Angels of Death codex?

Scorcher505
09-10-2009, 17:42
That sounds like an angels of Death confirmation, or Blood Angels plus something else. Harry to the rescue once more!

The Judge
09-10-2009, 17:43
Half the story as in half the codex (the other half, logically, being DA) or simply half the Marine releases next year?

Argh intrigue

Scryer in the Darkness
09-10-2009, 17:44
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

I do so love the pie man! :D

Mattcrowther00
09-10-2009, 17:46
Codex Angels of Death does make sense with the 2nd Edition smell the new codices have at the moment!! I'll be bloody happy if this turns out to be the case!

Raibaru
09-10-2009, 17:47
The discussion about the DA in the UK09 thread would lead me to believe it isn't another Angels of Death codex unfortunately. Plus I don't know if I'd be happy or pissed about such news.

Would be a shame to see the only 'special' Space Marine chapter that isn't heavily focused toward assault be crammed into a combo book like in second edition.

On the other hand, DA have horrid rules and really wouldn't require much to make them more enjoyable either.

FerociousBeast
09-10-2009, 17:58
As a disgruntled Dark Angel player, we don't have horrid rules, just boring and old fashioned.

I do not believe Harry's comment means Angels of Death. Everything we've heard up til now has discounted that. Must be something else!

verydarkshadow
09-10-2009, 18:01
Dark Templars? I believe their codex will be the oldest after BA are released.

Edit: Whoops! Of course I mean, they'd be the oldest Marine codex.

>>
<<

... no offence to Dark Eldar players.

S_A_T_S
09-10-2009, 18:07
Black Templars may be the oldest of Space Marines, but when are the Dark Eldar getting re-done?!?! My first army was Blood Angels, I'd love to see them be redone, and I'm afraid if they are it will actually make me spend more cash redoing my entire force, repainting everything, and even buying a proper case to keep them in instead of cardboard boxes, but DEAR GOD, stop with the marine codicies! Redo Necrons! Redo Dark Eldar! They actually NEED it! BA have a 'codex' that will keep them going for a bit.

rabblerouser
09-10-2009, 18:11
I look forward to seeing those kits. Now if only they had stuff like this for smurfs :S

Prodigalson
09-10-2009, 18:14
I have a hard time believing that it is an Angels of Death... but I sure do wish it was true. They did sort of redo the blood angels at the same time as the DA's last time, so it's not IMPOSSIBLE that it is both... that simply would be... very surprising. GW isn't known for fixing poor codexes, they should tell you to suck it up for five-eight years.

On the other hand Harry didn't say that that was half of the new marines coming out, he said that was Half of the Story. That makes it sound like blood angels are only half of the march release. I can't imagine them doing Black Templars in the same codex as Blood Angels. Dark Angels... yes... I mean... blood and dark aren't THAT different from Codex Marines.

Guess we will see. Facinating rumor.

Odin
09-10-2009, 18:17
The following was posted at B&C this morning in a rumor thread about a new codex. I did not post this there, just taking it from there and reposting it here:


Thoughts?

Cheers for the rumour, but my main thought is


assault squads will be a troop choice

NooooOOO!OOOOOO!!!! Why? That's just very, very wrong.

Blood Angels don't have any more Assault Squads in the Chapter than the Ultramarines, or Imperial Fists, or Iron Hands. But if they stay as Core, proper Blood Angel armies based around tactical squads will be relegated to history apart from a handful of players who care about the fluff.

Cygnusmaximus
09-10-2009, 18:21
Given that Dark Angels already have a few spiffy plastic upgrade sprues, I could see them doing a "Codex: Angels of Death" once again. Make most of the releases Blood Angels, toss in a few new metals for the Dark Angels (and whet their appetites with a huge, chapter-specific terrain piece) and GW could ensure that all the power-armoured fanboys have a happy 2010.

orkz222
09-10-2009, 18:22
Nice to know BA having a codex, since my gaming friend play them.

Pie man is teasing us :D

Evil-Termite
09-10-2009, 18:23
It seems a little odd to me that it would come out in March only 2 months after Tyranids come out. However, they only came out with 2 codexes this year so i can see GW wanting to get out three next year.

I'm excited for Assault marines to get special weapons. And wouldn't it be nice if they get priced a little nicer too...

Ominous Anonymous
09-10-2009, 18:27
It seems a little odd to me that it would come out in March only 2 months after Tyranids come out. However, they only came out with 2 codexes this year so i can see GW wanting to get out three next year.

Ties in nicely with Space Hulk if anything.

Prodigalson
09-10-2009, 18:36
If we get two codexes in quarter one, that is just great. That leaves quite a bit of the year open for some other armies. So far since 5th edition we have had a total of three codexes... that's a little rediculous to be honesty.

SirSnipes
09-10-2009, 18:40
seriously getting sick of the armys that really deserve a new dex, lookin at inquisition and DE/crons

Cygnusmaximus
09-10-2009, 18:40
It seems a little odd to me that it would come out in March only 2 months after Tyranids come out. However, they only came out with 2 codexes this year so i can see GW wanting to get out three next year.

Combine the fact that the Blood Angels already have a 5th ed. list with the fact that they are, in fact, space marines (who also have plenty of models and a codex) and it seems a lot more feasible - between the White Dwarf list and the Space Marine Codex, the work is practically done from a rules standpoint. Space Wolves got two plastic boxes though I would argue that Blood Angels could probably do just fine with a "Wolf Pack" style box, so you're also not talking about too many miniature releases. Two months would be plenty of time.

It seems like not much effort for an even bigger boost to Marine sales. I imagine GW would see it in a similar light.

Lexington
09-10-2009, 18:41
It seems a little odd to me that it would come out in March only 2 months after Tyranids come out.
I'm surprised as well, thought it's nice to hear. Either we're seeing a pick-up in the Codex release schedule, or GW is putting out its 40K offerings for the year early in preparation for the "Year of Fantasy" that 2010 is supposed to be.

Either way - Harry, you tease you! :D

ManusMarines
09-10-2009, 18:53
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

Harry makes me feel good :)

Angels of Death would make sense, as there aren't many other Marine chapters with existing books to be updated.

A C:AoD release would mean that only the Templars are lacking in updates for the new edition. Certainly we won't be getting every single chapter upgraded within three years of a new edition, right?

de Selby
09-10-2009, 19:01
I'd be surprised if Dark Angels got a do-over so soon. Gw seems to aim for about one marine codex a year don't they? Wolves then BA and then more marines? I hope they're pacing themselves.

To me, Grey Knights seems more likely than Dark Angels if there are going to be two power armoured releases next year.

Ominous Anonymous
09-10-2009, 19:04
If Harry's post was any indication, they'll have an Angels of Death codex instead of a separate Dark Angels and Blood Angel book. Makes sense money-wise, as this way rather than both Dark Angel and Blood Angel players buying a single book for $20 they can sell both groups 1 large book for more.

massey
09-10-2009, 19:10
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

Bad Ass!!! That's exactly what I wanted to hear. :)

Hallelujia, glory be.

--

Edit: Blood Angels and Dark Angels are both fairly similar, whereas Black Templars have a pretty substantial difference as far as their organization goes. I think it would be easier to group the Dark Angels in together. Not only is it a return to 2nd edition goodness, but it updates the one marine army that no longer has anything "special" about it. Besides, there have been rumors about BT getting their own book, and nothing at all about DA.

evilsponge
09-10-2009, 19:14
Here's hoping it means they're combing it into Angels of Death. It would mean once less Marine re-release we'd have to suffer through!

Bestial Fury
09-10-2009, 19:19
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

(Boards plane with cash to find where Harry lives, construct various conveyor belt of Racks, and with a determination stronger than an ork painboss, plans on how to put the screws to Harry for more info).


Kudos to the BA's (and maybe DA's) if the rumors are confirmed.

Daicon
09-10-2009, 19:22
All give praise to the pie man!

Here's hoping for love going out to the Angel's of Death.

thoughtfoxx
09-10-2009, 19:23
And I got my ass moderated for even daring to suggest that the next 'big' thing was going to be the next marine codex. Just goes to show....

synapse
09-10-2009, 19:24
wow, very intriguing. as primarily a modeller, im really interested to see what new sprues are in store for us.

and is it just me or is GW releasing loads of new armies? space wolves, skaven, tyranids, beastmen, now these... all in the space of a few months! great stuff for plastic addicts like me :D

Wolf Scout Ewan
09-10-2009, 19:24
My sources have been talking about Blood Angels since spring so maybe its true.

VeritasMortis
09-10-2009, 19:40
I AM AMPED! I didn't think it would hit me so hard but the idea of having an actual codex again AND a proper conversion kit like the doggys got! i can't wait.

Arhalien
09-10-2009, 19:54
seriously getting sick of the armys that really deserve a new dex, lookin at inquisition and DE/crons

Quoted for great truth.

The unfortunate thing is that in a time of economic recession, when GW was already struggling, it's far better for THEM if they redo armies like Blood Angels, who have a strong following, and don't need that much model work: they have a full range of Space Marines to base things off, thus only a few upgrade kits and special characters need to be done, with relatively little expense, and a good chance of a profit being turned.
Contrast this to the amount of work that would need to be done for the Inquisition, or Dark Eldar, or (to a lesser extent) Necrons, and the relative popularity of these armies compared to Marines. As much as I would love them to redo the Inquisition (and by that I mean do them properly, giving as much of an opportunity to have a radical army as a puritan army), it just doesn't seem at all likely.

Anyway, on a more positive note, I will be very excited to see if these plastics live up to the hype: the Space Hulk plastics are incredible, although I think a lot of that comes from the fact that they're single piece, so the pose can be designed as well as possible, without worrying about an arm not fitting with every body in a multi-part plastic kit. I very much doubt they'll be able to replicate that with a multi-part updgrade kit, but I look forward to seeing the results, whatever they may be

TaintedSpam
09-10-2009, 19:55
Could be... Blood Angels are the assault army... Dark Angels, the shootie... So want to see an "Angels of Death" book.

Mike3791
09-10-2009, 19:56
It seems a little odd to me that it would come out in March only 2 months after Tyranids come out.

Yea, but tyranids come out 2 months after Space Wolves. How is that any different?

BigBadBull
09-10-2009, 19:57
It seems a little odd to me that it would come out in March only 2 months after Tyranids come out. However, they only came out with 2 codexes this year so i can see GW wanting to get out three next year.

I'm excited for Assault marines to get special weapons. And wouldn't it be nice if they get priced a little nicer too...

Try 3 kinda... IG,SW, Planetstrike, 2.5 waves of IG ( main one , new big tanks, Catchacan Commanders), Spacehulk, oh and major Ork wave in Jan with 2 new Superheavies in March or April, and the oft forgotten Planetary Empires. A fairly full year on the 40k side!

I think it is a good way to make room for 3-4 dexes next year with out half of them being Marines.....If BA are Assaulty.... DA are/were Shooty..... good counter foil... and they already have decent upgrade models out.... Easy money.

senso
09-10-2009, 20:02
Sounds like excellent news, BA are the space marines I have the most respect for. Here's hoping they'll treat them like the SW codex and give the entire army a USR or two to keep it fluffy, plus new units. Wonder how the death company will turn out? Will they keep rending on them?

Scryer in the Darkness
09-10-2009, 20:04
Yea, but tyranids come out 2 months after Space Wolves. How is that any different?
Because Tyranids are 3 months after Space Wolves. Need to brush up on your maths there bucko. :p

Mike3791
09-10-2009, 20:20
Because Tyranids are 3 months after Space Wolves. Need to brush up on your maths there bucko. :p

Well, 2-3 months is still pretty good for codex releases. ;)

Scryer in the Darkness
09-10-2009, 20:23
Well, 2-3 months is still pretty good for codex releases. ;)
I wasn't arguing the context, just that 2 is different to 3. ;)

Cygnusmaximus
09-10-2009, 20:31
wow, very intriguing. as primarily a modeller, im really interested to see what new sprues are in store for us.

and is it just me or is GW releasing loads of new armies? space wolves, skaven, tyranids, beastmen, now these... all in the space of a few months! great stuff for plastic addicts like me :D

I actually wish GW would slow down a bit! While I might be able to find the money to pick up a lot of the new releases, I most certainly can't find the time to work on them - the current rate of releases means that GW is smothering my enthusiasm for one project with shiny new things and so I never finish a project nor do I purchase models I would otherwise because there's not enough "hobby time".

I am glad to see that the Blood Angels (and maybe Dark Angels) are getting better treatment than they have with a White Dwarf list (and a pre-Ultramarines codex).

Ivellis
09-10-2009, 20:36
I fear that BA will get the SW treatment and their vampirism will be expounded upon over and over throughout the codex like it's all they do.

Ale and wolves work for SW because they've always been a little humorous and fun. But BA are supposed to be powerful, mysterious and unknown.

I expect soon BA will be a chapter of 250 immortals who only fight to drink blood and spend the rest of their time being artisans and falling in love with teenagers. :P

Walls
09-10-2009, 20:47
I am really looking forward to this being true. Blood Angels, though I've never played them, are amongst my favorite chapters. I really dig their story/fluff and can see myself finally delving into another marine army.

GreenDracoBob
09-10-2009, 20:51
As much as I would like to see a Dark Eldar release sooner, rather than later, Blood Angels and the other Marine codices are easy to make. Most of the fluff is done, the rules are fairly well established, and the models are mostly finished. Dark Eldar, despite being in production (or so we've heard) for many years requires so much more. Add to this that Marines sell really well, and GW would be stupid not to get the Marines out of the way as soon as possible. Maybe then we can get a long string of codices that GW is forced to release as there are no more Marine books to make.

As for the rumor itself, I'll remain somewhat skeptical, but Blood Angels seem like a logical choice, considering the ease of the release, and to capitalize on the popularity of Space Hulk before it completely dies.

If it is true, I may have to finally start a Marine army, seeing as I would prefer to play a Blood Angel army or one of their successors. That said, I would also like to see Assault Squads regulated to Fast Attack, with an option to take them as troops, but that's a minor problem. Maybe if they get a good fluff excuse for it, other than "They have a lot of Assault Squads."

Glad I didn't get tempted to start the Wolves, though, if this is true.

TaintedSpam
09-10-2009, 20:52
I actually wish GW would slow down a bit!

I didn't just read that, did I?

Ominous Anonymous
09-10-2009, 20:53
Sounds like excellent news, BA are the space marines I have the most respect for. Here's hoping they'll treat them like the SW codex and give the entire army a USR or two to keep it fluffy, plus new units. Wonder how the death company will turn out? Will they keep rending on them?

I'm betting Furious Charge for all units, or at least something like it with a downside. As for Death Company, I'd love it if they changed the Black Rage so that it couldn't be combined with a power weapon or Power Fist and give said unit the ability to use those weapons again.

havik110
09-10-2009, 21:03
Dare I hope for an Angels of Death codex?

a while back they said that wolves BA and BT would be redone...Nothing was said of the dark angels...i know angels of death would make people happy but i would think that BT would be redone as it is a much older codex than DA...

Heres hopping for successor characters for and bits BA (bring back the flesh tearer shoulder pads please...)

***Quote
assault squads will be a troop choice
NooooOOO!OOOOOO!!!! Why? That's just very, very wrong.

You do know assault squads are currently troops right?

MistaGav
09-10-2009, 21:08
Will there ever be a thread on Warseer or in the '40k section' that DOESN'T have someone complaining about the lack of DE/DH/Nec codex. Or at least whenever a rumour about a new codex pops up.

Having said that I would rather see an AoD codex over just a regular BA/DA codex as it allows them to kill two birds (or in this case angels) and get on with other codexs.

IsawaShori
09-10-2009, 21:15
...
Heres hopping for successor characters for and bits BA ...
Indeed, Chapter Master Seth would be ideal for a new special character.

tcraigen
09-10-2009, 21:22
First off my response is "GOOD", get off your horses people about they have a codex and take a good look at the WHITE DWARF produced codex. Now look at the produced and printed codexs for all other armies, now look back one version. Was it 20 pages long? no? Blood Angel's was. They are an army, they deserve a dex just like all the others, DE are giving them trouble when they can do them right you'll get one same goes for Inquisitor codexs. Necrons will get one soon enough cause they wont redo tau again anytime soon and unlikely will eldar. I doubt they will go a year without another "alien" codex. So get over it and wait your turn.

Im excited at the thought of getting actual marine bits for BA that intrigues me alot, and who could be the new character/s?

For the unknown I suspect online release of Dark Angels codex paired with white dwarf initial splash.

aka_mythos
09-10-2009, 21:32
...I'm fine with this. I think its silly for people to get annoyed at this coming out. The main reason GW is doing BA is because A) they can be easily redone B) doing some easy and getting it out of the way sooner rather than later frees up time and man power to work on more demanding projects;GW has been saying that for the last year and a half so why are people surprised when it happens. Personally I'm happier seeing all the marine codices done at once, it gets them out of the way, but increases the consistency between books. It cuts down of marine driven codex creep, and will cut down on people who jump from one marine codex to the next because of it.

HsojVvad
09-10-2009, 21:34
So since Harry said the "half the story" bit, does this comfirm that BA will be actually released now?

hendybadger
09-10-2009, 21:39
Cant wait to see how the army ends up

Bregalad
09-10-2009, 21:43
Just for the record, do rumours confirm that they won't rerelease the Space Hulk Terminators?

Raibaru
09-10-2009, 21:44
Well at least if they work on all the Marine codex at the same time, or at the very least release them while the previous ones are still fresh in everyone's mind we won't run into the situation where everyone plays X; counts as Y lists.

It's annoying seeing Marine codex come out and then the next one is so significantly more powerful then the one preceding it.

DA, BT, and BA all together would be absolutely amazing. Like I said before, my only complaint about the idea of remerging DA+BA is that people will complain about going back from a chapter important enough to stand on its own to one that doesn't even get its name on the front of the book.

Plus the AoD book was sorely lacking in the fluff department compared to the stand alones.

Cygnusmaximus
09-10-2009, 21:51
I didn't just read that, did I?

You did - when it comes to hobby stuff, I tend to move about as fast as a tranquilized sloth; I have lots of good ideas but by the time I get around to implementing them, GW is already rereleasing the army that I intended to work on with new rules and models that spoil my plans.

I guess I should have played Dark Eldar all along :D

Arkley
09-10-2009, 21:58
You did - when it comes to hobby stuff, I tend to move about as fast as a tranquilized sloth; I have lots of good ideas but by the time I get around to implementing them, GW is already rereleasing the army that I intended to work on with new rules and models that spoil my plans.

I guess I should have played Dark Eldar all along :D

QFT :)

Damn it more nice marine stuff, I guess the Flesh Tearers are my next army.

GreenDracoBob
09-10-2009, 22:04
I guess I should have played Dark Eldar all along :D

Which would be great, until GW does release the new book and invalidates all that work you did. :D But then you'll have the time once again to complete it before the next release.

Actually, I'm a pretty slow hobbyist myself. I've been working on my Tau since 2001, and they have never been closer to completion.

Hoarmurel
09-10-2009, 22:11
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D


Could you explain this a little more :angel:?

Or i think we are going to start speculating about the most odd things, like the return of the Grey Knights or Inquisition :D

Harry
09-10-2009, 22:13
Now that's a whole nother story.:D

Arkley
09-10-2009, 22:16
Now that's a whole nother story.:D

So cruel Harry... I bet you enjoy this :)

Chaos and Evil
09-10-2009, 22:20
Harry makes me think of "Angels of Death".

loveless
09-10-2009, 22:25
Now that's a whole nother story.:D

Here's a story
About a guy named Harry
Who was hording rumours on his own
He'd not give the secrets, no never!
The knowledge would be all his alone!

I curse you all for making me think of the bloody Brady Bunch (consequently, "Bloody Brady Bunch" could be the PG version of the Blood Angels).

Hoarmurel
09-10-2009, 22:32
It's true, Harry must enjoy a lot with us :p

HsojVvad
09-10-2009, 22:33
Here's a story
About a guy named Harry
Who was hording rumours on his own
He'd not give the secrets, no never!
The knowledge would be all his alone!

I curse you all for making me think of the bloody Brady Bunch (consequently, "Bloody Brady Bunch" could be the PG version of the Blood Angels).

LMFAO Oh that was a good one. Thanks for the good laugh.

Mánagarmr
09-10-2009, 22:37
You torment us all, Harry!

Ah well, at least we essentially know Blood Angels are incoming. Meaning I can look forward to carving a bloody swathe through those heretical Flesh Tearers soon enough!

:raise frost axe:

Prodigalson
09-10-2009, 22:39
Well, unless Harry tells us we are all wrong (or an analogies comment to that effect ;-) I will assume it's Angels of Death.

And if it is, I say hats off the GW. It's a great idea.

Harry
09-10-2009, 22:41
You are not all wrong.






Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D

Sceleris82
09-10-2009, 22:44
Im psyched, i have loved the Blood Angels since space crusade, and i really really wanna sit home in my living room, with a bag of snacks and a coke and a new BA codex!

Prodigalson
09-10-2009, 22:54
Well poop.

But still good to know.

I'm completely fumoxed now. No idea what it could be. I re-read through the posts to see what else we have talked about.

Maybe it is something completely unexpected, that we don't see coming. Good thread if nothing else.

Scryer in the Darkness
09-10-2009, 22:56
Oh golly, it seems I was away from WarSeer too long.


Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D
^ This.

Learn to love the Harry and his wonderous way with words folks. Enjoy their ebb and flow, but try not to bodily hurl yourself at conclusions with no thought to your personal safety! :D Certainly don't be accusing him of the naughty teasey-teasings. ;)

Mánagarmr
09-10-2009, 22:56
The Tyranid have consumed the Blood Angels entire chapter, and the new release is "Tyrangels of Bloody Death".

Vampire insects in power armor, it'll be huge.

Irbian
09-10-2009, 23:13
So, if inquisition is "another history" and angel of death "is not the other half of the story"...

black templars on summer?

Ah... a man can dream :P

Prodigalson
09-10-2009, 23:18
If so that is a heafty amount of marines... that's for sure.

It will be interesting to see what models they release. I like the BT models a lot and used the hell out of that sprue before. It would be interesting to see what the blood angels get on theirs besides the iconography.

Hoarmurel
09-10-2009, 23:20
Seriously, Could it be some codex of the Chaos Legions? :confused:




(Hey I want speculate in this too) :D

verydarkshadow
09-10-2009, 23:21
Could you explain this a little more :angel:?

Or i think we are going to start speculating about the most odd things, like the return of the Grey Knights or Inquisition :D


Now that's a whole nother story.:D


Well, unless Harry tells us we are all wrong (or an analogies comment to that effect ;-) I will assume it's Angels of Death.

And if it is, I say hats off the GW. It's a great idea.


You are not all wrong.






Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D


Okay, seeing all this I'm all but convinced the other "half of the story" must be Black Templars.

Maxis Lithium
09-10-2009, 23:27
Not "has to be" but it does seem likely. Dose seem they're trying to kick all the Imperial armies out the door right now. I can only hope that eventually we will see more Xenos in the future too. More then just Bugs in 2010.

static grass
09-10-2009, 23:28
Now that's a whole nother story.:D

Thomas the tank engine?

Is this a dark mechanicus hint? Engines possessed by demonic entities going by the name of Tzhomas? :D

Joewrightgm
09-10-2009, 23:36
You are not all wrong.






Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D

Interesting. Wasn't there a rumor knocking around about Black Templars around the same month as the Angels?

Bestial Fury
09-10-2009, 23:38
Okay, seeing all this I'm all but convinced the other "half of the story" must be Black Templars.

Yeah, but that must be a "later in the year" story vs an "at the same time" story.

So is there something else juicy at the same time as BA or does it mean something later in the year?

Ivellis
09-10-2009, 23:50
I'm tired of marines, but I can't help but hope for BT. :D (I'm a knight at heart.)

Still, I've been waiting for DE since I got into 40k, I mean come on! :mad:

Corbulo
09-10-2009, 23:51
Cheers for the rumour, but my main thought is



NooooOOO!OOOOOO!!!! Why? That's just very, very wrong.

Blood Angels don't have any more Assault Squads in the Chapter than the Ultramarines, or Imperial Fists, or Iron Hands. But if they stay as Core, proper Blood Angel armies based around tactical squads will be relegated to history apart from a handful of players who care about the fluff.

Have you not seen the current codex they already are a troop choice.
anyway as a BA player i am very happy about this.
i hope they bring out plastic DC or a conversion stuff for them in the Kit

TrojanWolf
10-10-2009, 00:13
Dark Templars? I believe their codex will be the oldest after BA are released.

Edit: Whoops! Of course I mean, they'd be the oldest Marine codex.

>>
<<

... no offence to Dark Eldar players.

*throws a shardnet over you* I don't really take offence at it. Urien Rakarth might though, so we'll go and see what he thinks.

verydarkshadow
10-10-2009, 00:34
Yeah, but that must be a "later in the year" story vs an "at the same time" story.

So is there something else juicy at the same time as BA or does it mean something later in the year?

Yep, it's possible that the BT release (if its coming) will be later on in the year. If I'm reading Harry's comments right it sounds like he was only suggesting another Marine release besides BA was due. I don't think he implied anything about another 40k release in the interim -which doesn't mean there isn't one planned, oc.

Solar_Eclipse
10-10-2009, 01:08
Making Assault Marines a troop choice doesnt mean there are more of them in the army, just that they are more regularly used and have been trained to capture objectives.

Tac squads are still better at holding objectives, though. Much Better.

Mudkip
10-10-2009, 01:44
Tactical marines are still the most commonly used troops choice for BA players right now anyway because they are more versatile and have access to Razorbacks. Blood Angels like to spend their fast attack choices on Land Speeder and Attack Bikes so it makes sense to give them room to field assault squads in addition.

Odin
10-10-2009, 01:49
You do know assault squads are currently troops right?

Yes, which is why the next bit said


But if they stay as Core

But it's one thing to make that horrendous mistake in a WD army list, another thing altogether to do it in a full Codex.

Mudkip
10-10-2009, 01:52
But if they stay as Core, proper Blood Angel armies based around tactical squads will be relegated to history apart from a handful of players who care about the fluff.

Assault squads have been troops for ages now though and yet tactical marines clearly haven't been "relegated to history", they are used just as much as in any other chapter for the most part.

Odin
10-10-2009, 01:57
Tactical marines haven't been "relegated to history" though, they are used just as much as in any other chapter for the most part.

Not yet they haven't. But they've only been Core in a WD army list, which will mostly have been used by existing BA players, who will be unlikely to make major changes to their army until they see what is in the full Codex. When the full Codex comes out though, there will be new BA players, and there will be existing BA players restructuring their armies, and I guarantee a hell of a lot of those are going to be all-assault armies. I really fear the BAs could become a one-trick pony. And there is no good reason, without major fluff changes, why BAs would have Assault Squads as Core.

Joewrightgm
10-10-2009, 01:58
Kind of failing to see how assault squads would replace tactical squad's totally. Sure, they are troops that get in your grill quickly, but so? Having them as troops would still mean that you would almost need tactical squads, if only for the field of fire that anyone approaching the objective they're on would need to face.

I was looking at the Apocalypse book, and the diagram of the forces involved in the Blood Angels' taking the fight to Armageddon indicated that there were 4 tactical squads, 4 assault squads and 2 devastators in the average Blood Angel company.

People always seem to cry "All marines are the same!" but when the designers try not to make them 'samey', people cry about the fluff like it doesn't change from time to time. *Shrugs* But what do I know?

Mudkip
10-10-2009, 02:01
Not yet they haven't. But they've only been Core in a WD army list, which will mostly have been used by existing BA players, who will be unlikely to make major changes to their army until they see what is in the full Codex. When the full Codex comes out though, there will be new BA players, and there will be existing BA players restructuring their armies, and I guarantee a hell of a lot of those are going to be all-assault armies. I really fear the BAs could become a one-trick pony. And there is no good reason, without major fluff changes, why BAs would have Assault Squads as Core.

I've seen lots of different armies based on the pdf codex, a lot of them taken to touranments. The pdf codex has been well used, you are just assuming things without bothering to check. In case you forgot the pdf codex is 100% official.

The fluff doesn't have to change, assault squads as troops doesn't mean they are the mainstay infantry anymore than scouts are mainline infantry in marine armies. There's even less of them than assault marines in most chapters and they are troops choices.

Occulto
10-10-2009, 02:05
I fear that BA will get the SW treatment and their vampirism will be expounded upon over and over throughout the codex like it's all they do.

Ale and wolves work for SW because they've always been a little humorous and fun. But BA are supposed to be powerful, mysterious and unknown.

I expect soon BA will be a chapter of 250 immortals who only fight to drink blood and spend the rest of their time being artisans and falling in love with teenagers. :P

Hence GW releasing their new line of modelling supplies at the same time.

"It's red paint... with glitter so your models are all sparkly!!!!" :D

shabbadoo
10-10-2009, 02:11
Assault squads have been troops for ages now though and yet tactical marines clearly haven't been "relegated to history", they are used just as much as in any other chapter for the most part.

For *ages* now? You are kidding, right? As to their usage, the Blood Angels only have so many Assault Squads to go around to their Battle Companies, each of which as two to begin with, and no other codex chapter has any less than Blood Angels do(each also has another 10 Assault Squads in form of the 8th company, for a total of 18 Assault Squads), so they would of course have access to Assault Squads too. Heck, all of the Codex Chapters and Blood Angels also have access to the same number of Devastator Squads(2 per Battle Company, plus 10 more in form of the 9th Company, for a total of 18 Devastator Squads) as they do Assault Squads, so they might as well make Devastator Squads Troops too eh?

All chapters would use whatever their resources allowed them too. The only reason to make Assault Squads Troops for any chapter with a near or perfect codex organization(as Blood Angels have) is merely to encourage such an army build. There is no other argument for it, as every codex chapter, and near codex chapter, has the resources to field just as many Assault Squads as Blood Angels do. If a situation called for lots of Assault Squads, then any chapter would make use of them just the same.

Mudkip
10-10-2009, 02:14
For *ages* now? You are kidding, right?
No? Actually there was a lot of assault squad armies when the BA pdf came out but they quickly died off in favour of mounted tac marines.


As to their usage, the Blood Angels only have so many Assault Squads to go around to their Battle Companies, each of which as two to begin with, and no other codex chapter has any less than Blood Angels do(each also has another 10 Assault Squads in form of the 8th company), so they would of course have access to Assault Squads too. Heck, all of the Codex Chapters and Blood Angels also have access to the same number of Devastator Squads(2 per Battle Company, plus 10 more in form of the 9th Company) as they do Assault Squads, so they might as well make Devastator Squads Troops too.

Read the thread, kthx. Assault squads as troops does not mean they have more assault squads, it's a gameplay mechanic.

You guys are way too slow by the way, we can already see the effect Imperial Guard is having on the metagame and yet you act like the BA pdf is still new.

shabbadoo
10-10-2009, 02:22
Yes, I did. I wouldn't call the amount of time since the BA pdf was releases "an age" is all. Depends on how old you are I guess.

It will probably be Black Templars and Blood Angels- two assault oriented armies.

Angels of Death would have been very cool though, and it is foolish for GW not to play up the nostalgia factor at all, as it is definitely there.

Dangersaurus
10-10-2009, 02:36
Seriously, Could it be some codex of the Chaos Legions? :confused:

A series of "Versus" codices would be an interesting way to go to get more non-Imperial armies out there.

Harry
10-10-2009, 03:17
I'm completely fumoxed now. No idea what it could be.
OK
My work here is done. :D

CamNZ
10-10-2009, 03:42
I love Harry's posts, they're like the internet equivalent of reading tea leaves.

TalonZahn
10-10-2009, 04:04
Don't forget that whole thing about the entire BA 1st Company fighting as Assault marines and not Tac marines when not in TDA. (This will be dimissed as the VAS units and not RAS units.)

I would say that, and their Codex Noted prowess at martial combat, leads them to have more Assault marines than a Codex Chapter.

Feel free to remove RAS as troops and then cut the price of VAS in half to reflect this. Then again, giving the BA Tacs standard loadouts with CC loadouts for the same price as a C:SM marine would work too.:p

Deus Mechanicus
10-10-2009, 04:44
I suspect we will see Blood Lords, Blood Princes, Blood Packs, Baalian Bats (both as mounts and as units, in case they'd be named Blood Fangs), Blood Brothers Terminators, Blood Raider, Blood Marines, Blood Speeder, Blood Bikes. On the item side we'd have Blood Blades, Bloodters, Blood Pistols.

Maybe a special character named Sanguin Bloodborn

Kalishnikov-47
10-10-2009, 05:44
I suspect we will see Blood Lords, Blood Princes, Blood Packs, Baalian Bats (both as mounts and as units, in case they'd be named Blood Fangs), Blood Brothers Terminators, Blood Raider, Blood Marines, Blood Speeder, Blood Bikes. On the item side we'd have Blood Blades, Bloodters, Blood Pistols.

Maybe a special character named Sanguin Bloodborn

You forget Blood Claws :) D'oh!!

I cant wait to get all our new Blood units. I am anxious to see how they handle the death company. Maybe similar to Mark of the Wulfen for SW or they will be a super expensive squad. Or be left as they are now which is painful.

Hokiecow
10-10-2009, 06:13
OK
My work here is done. :D

Reminds me of fortune tellers.

Neither confirms nor denies, draw your own conclusions, they'll eventually come true.

Warp-Juicer
10-10-2009, 07:16
Er, if they have this codex done, than could they please release it without disrupting other release schedules? No offense but I'm tired of space marine armies.

Kloud13
10-10-2009, 07:21
Blood Angels are half the story. A full half? or less than half?

I can't see Dark Angels being redone with Blood angels as the Dark Angel codex is still fairly new.

What I am hoping for, is perhaps a sort of return to the "Index Astartes" books from 3rd edition. More or less supplements to the Marine Codex, just with Special Characters, and Different Chapter rules, and Fluff about the individual Chapters.

Now as a Iron Hand Player, that would be great, but really, I really wish GW would just back right off of pushing marines, and encourage people to play other armies. It's awfull going to a tournament, and only playing against marines the whole time.

scarletsquig
10-10-2009, 07:30
Currently there are 17 codexes.. 8 of them are space marines of some sort.

So, logically every other codex release will be space marines.

I'd prefer it if they brought back a codex: armageddon type format for the various marine chapters, they'd be able to fit more in... would have been much better to have a combined black templars/ salamanders/ white scars/ imperial + crimson fists codex in the place of the current black templars one.

And I own a black templars army. The codex is mostly padding... 20% background, 10% actual new rules, 30% reprint of codex space marines, 40% pretty pictures with lotsa white space.

I don't understand why they wouldn't want an excuse to release 4 new space marine armies instead of one. :P

Anyway, as for blood angels, wonder if flesh tearers might get a look in as well?

Prodigalson
10-10-2009, 07:32
What... you don't like hot marine on marine action? All channels, All networks.

synapse
10-10-2009, 07:40
I expect soon BA will be a chapter of 250 immortals who only fight to drink blood and spend the rest of their time being artisans and falling in love with teenagers. :P

hilarious yet scary! i hope not!

MajorWesJanson
10-10-2009, 08:00
BA do make a lot of sense, tying into Space Hulk.

I bet that they pick up the Divine Intervention rule for some vets, like Vanguard have.

Only half? I'd guess either Space hulk did so well it is being given a second printing, or that the Apoc releases for the year will be the Thunderhawk and Trygon kit to tie into the two armies. Or both :D

spaint2k
10-10-2009, 09:12
Blood Angels are only half the story. :D

If this hint at DA turns out to be true, it'll make my gaming year.

EDIT

You are not all wrong.


Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D

Gah! That really sucks.

Murphy's law
10-10-2009, 09:24
I suspect we will see Blood Lords, Blood Princes, Blood Packs, Baalian Bats (both as mounts and as units, in case they'd be named Blood Fangs), Blood Brothers Terminators, Blood Raider, Blood Marines, Blood Speeder, Blood Bikes. On the item side we'd have Blood Blades, Bloodters, Blood Pistols.

Maybe a special character named Sanguin Bloodborn

And the veterans would be "Bloods" with red bandana.

G8Keeper
10-10-2009, 10:11
If this hint at DA turns out to be true, it'll make my gaming year.

EDIT


Gah! That really sucks.

Unless they release DA and BA as seperate codexes (sp?) and not AoD

Rick Blaine
10-10-2009, 10:26
...I'm fine with this. I think its silly for people to get annoyed at this coming out. The main reason GW is doing BA is because A) they can be easily redone B) doing some easy and getting it out of the way sooner rather than later frees up time and man power to work on more demanding projects

This is a totally bogus argument. They said the same thing when they were redoing Marines for 4th edition and it didn't seem to free up any time for the other armies. By the time all the Smurfs get done, they have to release a new edition and immediately update the Smurfs all over again :rolleyes:

Whitehorn
10-10-2009, 10:38
So far since 5th edition we have had a total of three codexes... that's a little rediculous to be honesty.

Daemons were written for 5th, so we've had 4 5th edition codices so far. Not bad for 18 months :)

Ravenheart
10-10-2009, 10:45
Lovely how every rumor thread degenrates to a debate about what GW should release and what it shouldn't.

How about sticking to actual rumors for a change? :rolleyes:

Tymell
10-10-2009, 10:47
The rumours themselves sound alright to me, and BA fits in with my own predictions to boot.

I'd assumed we'd be looking at sometime mid-2010, since we've got Nids at the start, then Beasts for Fantasy.

Hehe, it is always entertaining how people take little snippets Harry gives and run into every area they can think of with them, or just plain read too much into the exact letter :p I'm just content to hear there's something more than he knows about.

TimLeeson
10-10-2009, 10:50
They dont appeal to me, but I can see this being somewhat interesting, blood angels have potential to look cool, but they need more visual flavour than just marines with blood-drops and a few fangs. The rumoured upgrade kit should fix this, however. And besides, even if it isnt an Angels of death codex (which im for as it cuts down the number of marine releases by 1), at least they'll have lots of new juicy fluff and stuff to read (appeals to the fluffoholic in me).

I agree with those wanting successor characters however, it gets boring seeing template armies all the time, so encouring people to do successors/make up their own would be a great move for variety-sake IMO.

And thanks to harry, it seems like he cant tell too much but still gives cryptic tidbits here and there as best as he can, and even the smallest thing is appreciated!

Souleater
10-10-2009, 11:13
Could the 'other half of the story' be an early 2nd Wave of Space Wolves?

I am pleased and intrigued by the rumour of BA so soon.

vahouth
10-10-2009, 11:18
You are not all wrong.






Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D

Dare I assume u mean Flessh Tearers and other Successors?

slowaustrian
10-10-2009, 11:20
Wasn´t the chorus of the rumours that 2010 would be a fantasy year? Because we already know the names of the next 2 ( 2 and a half, 3) 40k codicies.

It can be that I did misunderstood and they just meant that the summer campain an the following releases will be Fantasy.

Sorry a bit off topic.

AOD codex very good news, hope my friend can reactivate our groups DA and BA players, dust so much dust.

Souleater
10-10-2009, 11:37
Ah, but did they mean WHFB or 'OMG we are actually going to release Dark Eldar, Necron and Inquistion armies!'

Raven Down
10-10-2009, 11:38
Woo Blood Angels!

Come Brothers lets put those Space Dogs In Their Place

pointedstick
10-10-2009, 11:41
As a disgruntled Dark Angel player, we don't have horrid rules, just boring and old fashioned.

Very true, I played DA for years, and ended up moving on, loved the models and background, but so very very bland lately...


The unfortunate thing is that in a time of economic recession, when GW was already struggling, it's far better for THEM if .. blah blah economics blah

Can we please stop re-typing this same god damned argument over and over. Every time someone mentions a marine release, this comes up. We all know how well marines sell, we all know they make money. We do not want to be force fed the same **** endlessly by members who think they know GW's business model.


Not yet they haven't. But they've only been Core in a WD army list, which will mostly have been used by existing BA players, who will be unlikely to make major changes to their army until they see what is in the full Codex. When the full Codex comes out though, there will be new BA players, and there will be existing BA players restructuring their armies, and I guarantee a hell of a lot of those are going to be all-assault armies. I really fear the BAs could become a one-trick pony. And there is no good reason, without major fluff changes, why BAs would have Assault Squads as Core.

Oh no, someone else is going to start playing your codex and doing it differently? :eek:

tragic.


Blood Angels should be very cool with some sexy sprues, and I shall be looking forward to the rest of the year, looks like we might get a decent number of books out.

Ozybonza
10-10-2009, 11:45
As much as I pray the "other half" to be DA, I'm not holding my breath. That would be, like the quickest codex update in the history of GW, would it not? It has to be BT.

The thing that bugs me is that while BT are more outdated, they have a *different* codex than regular SM, while DA are more or less the same as any other SC-driven SM army, but worse. It's like they chucked a couple of army changing SM style SC's in there, then flipped through the pages while urinating on the codex.

Muffe
10-10-2009, 11:51
What if the "second" part of the story might be a completely different chapter?.

For eks Blood Ravens?

Do a Blood Angels/ Blood Ravens release.
I think I read some rumor thread on Bolter and chainsword saying there might be a Blood Raven book in the pipeline. so just a suggestion

Corrode
10-10-2009, 12:03
This is a totally bogus argument. They said the same thing when they were redoing Marines for 4th edition and it didn't seem to free up any time for the other armies. By the time all the Smurfs get done, they have to release a new edition and immediately update the Smurfs all over again :rolleyes:

Please read my signature to understand why you're wrong.

slingersam
10-10-2009, 12:34
I like the tactical challenge the PDF codex provides, anyway new models will be nice. I hope they keep death company the same but reduce the point cost to 23 points a model.

demonnick
10-10-2009, 12:34
This rumor sounds nice and if everything beeing written here comes to pass in the following months then i would be more than a happy Panda.

Other races/chapters/organisations may be in need of a new codex more than BA do but you are forgetting that, BA actually doesn't have a codex, just two issues of WD.

Evilhomer
10-10-2009, 12:51
This made my weekend.

Assuming its all true, I would hope the BA sprue contained some artificier armour (ala Dante/Tycho). The DA book improved previous codex style by actually giving us some (but not enough imho) detail on the successor chapters. Hopefully GW will run with this and give us new background for the BA successors, along with a few successor specific special characters. Or maybe theres so much detail on the successors they form the other half of the book.

If Harry's "one half of the story" equates to an Angels of Death style book, hopefully it has implications for future marine/chaos marine development (a series of codex legion book is overdue imho).

Corrode
10-10-2009, 13:21
Thanks for proving me right. 13 out of 32 items on your release schedule are Marines, and that's not counting Grey Knights. Unless you think 40% isn't a significant portion or the release schedule :eyebrows:

EDIT: And that's not even counting the fact that we had a variant SM/CSM list just about every month for a large portion of 3rd edition.

There were 11 codices in the first 2 years (October 1998 to June 2000) of 3rd edition. These covered most of the armies which had their own codex in 2nd edition; further, the 3 non-vanilla Marine codices were mini-dexes which are, i think, 28 pages long? After Dark Angels there isn't another Marine codex until the Space Wolves in April 2000, in that time there's 2 Xeno codices, the Imperial Guard and the Catachan Imperial Guard variant. In the space of 3 Marine codices (Blood, Dark and regular), there are also 2 non-Marine releases, Chaos and Orks. The 11 codices is rounded off by an Eldar variant. After the Space Wolves there is a run of 8 codices, none of which are Space Marine codices (note: I don't count Chaos for this purpose, as they're a discrete army; I do count variants like the Angels. I can only assume you do include Chaos, which is hardly fair - at that point we may as well count the Daemon Hunters and Necrons as well).

In 4th edition, 2004-2008, we have: Space Marines, then Catachans (as a pdf) and Tyranids. At this point the 3rd edition Space Marine book is 6 years old and the 3rd edition Tyranid book is 4. After Nids we have Templars (an independent list for the first time), and then two Xeno armies (including the fairly new Tau, in their second codex). We then have the Dark and Blood Angels - much like the Catachans, the Blood Angels are relegated to a pdf. After this point there is another run of 3 non-Marine codices, then we get to 5th edition and we all know the pattern as it stands (interestingly, the Tyranids will have had 3 properly-released codices in the space of 9 years come January, whereas the OMG CLOGGING UP THE SCHEDULE Blood Angels will have had 1 - even if we're definite on Blood Angels being March 2010, that's a gap of 11 years between actual paper-bound codices).

Now, let's examine the 'need' for a Codex at the various times of Marine codices being released.

3rd edition - seriously, 11 codices in 2 years, of which the non-vanilla variants got tiny minidexes? EVERYONE needed a new codex at that point, and the Angels of Death were an easy way to get a codex out whilst working on the other ones.

4th edition - at the time, the oldest codices (barring Dark Eldar) had all been updated. The other options were the various 'hunters (3 years old for WH, 4 years old for DH) or the Necrons (5 years, perhaps actually in need of it). The Dark Angels and Blood Angels were 8 and 9 years old respectively, and tied to a book which no longer technically existed. Compared to the relative new kids on the block, the Black Templars, they looked rather depressingly slim. Even when they did do the update, they half-assed it - the Blood Angels PDF is just that, a PDF.

I still firmly hold that had 5th edition not occurred at such a short interval (seriously, 4 years for an edition is VERY short), the Necrons would likely already be updated - they were a logical choice when almost every other book was either less than 4 years old or made up of dark space elves.

5th edition - yes, it started with a Space Marine codex. If you don't think this is going to happen for every new edition you're an idiot, because GW is not going to let a quarter of its customers wait for a new codex while they update some other much smaller sliver of their take. The second codex was the Guard, who'd missed out in 4th edition but had had two 'dexes in 3rd, and the third was Space Wolves - again a 9 year old codex compared to the 'crons seven and 'hunters 6 and 5. If nothing else, it made sense to update Space Wolves as the only minidex left in the game - especially since they were gaining unintended advantages from being tied to a different 'dex and its wargear updates.

The likelihood is that in the next two years we'll see updated Blood Angels and Black Templars, and possibly even Dark Angels. In that time we'll see at least 3 non-Marine books, too, for the sake of alternating. After that point we'll be left with nothing but Xenos/Inquisition, and the likelihood of another 3+ years of this edition to do it in. That doesn't sound too bad to me.

e: as for hyperbole about 'variants every month' - there was no variant CSM list released in 3rd, though there was an updated 3.5 'dex. There were 3 variants for Space Marines, 1 variant for Guard and 1 variant for Eldar. Between April 2000 and November 2005 there were more variants of Eldar released than Space Marines.

Gutzmek
10-10-2009, 13:42
anyone consider Harry may be referring to a release of just upgrades frames for chapters without an army book release?

Corrode
10-10-2009, 13:50
You must have missed the Index Astartes series then, covering most of the First Founding legions on both sides. Released in WD and 3 (4?) compilation books...

If we're going to get down to the Index Astartes series then we should also include Kroot Mercenaries, the Abhumans/Mutants doctrines, Feral Orks, minor psychic powers, the Dark Eldar 'update', and all the other bits in White Dwarf which in some way added to or modified an army. The IA series was 99% about fluff, which concerned both the wider 40k galaxy (Horus Heresy stuff) and also a large part of the fanbase (Marine and Chaos players). Those 'rules' barely constituted the name, and hardly amount to a codex.


As for your precious schedule, it only seems to be getting worse. 4th ed was 50% SM. What good were two years without any Marines, when there was a year of 3 SM releases between them? Fact is, 4 out of 8 Codexes were SM and it doesn't look like 5th ed will be any better. And what makes you think there will be 3 years of nothing but Xenos after all the SM get done? Experience teaches us that when GW runs out of SM, they put out a new edition and start over.

4th edition had:

Chaos Daemons - May 2008
Orks - January 2008
Chaos Space Marines - September 2007
Blood Angels (pdf) - June/July 2007
Dark Angels - March 2007
Eldar - November 2006
Tau - March 2006
Black Templars - November 2005
Tyranids - June 2005
Catachans - wiki doesn't list a release date but sometime in 2005, as a pdf similar to the BA
Space Marines - November 2004

4 Marine variants (including 1 pdf).
A Guard variant (pdf).
2 Chaos books, 4 Xeno books, for a total of 11 books. 4 != 50% of 11. If we look at actual BOOKS and discount pdfs, then it's 3 of 9 - 33%. Had 4th continued, the logical path would have been to update the Necrons and Hunters as the only remaining books in need of an update (again, assuming that GW continues to forget Dark Eldar exist).

Why do I presume that GW will have 3 straight years of Xeno after the Marines are updated? Because 'experience' hasn't taught us anything. The edition change from 3rd to 4th occurred after they'd started re-doing 3rd edition codices (neither of which were Space Marines, by the by). The change from 4th to 5th occurred because 4th was crap, and it was better to start over fresh than release more codices under a dysfunctional ruleset only to see them half-broken like the Tau when a new edition emerged.

You also ignore the fact that there will be at least 3 non-Marine books done, and that Chaos will likely not be one of them since both Chaos books are very recent (and still sell well, more to the point). Orks are also out of the picture, and probably Eldar for at least another two years - that doesn't leave many choices besides the 'necessary' ones.

Arguing against logic with invective and pessimistic hyperbole doesn't help your point.

Zanzibarthefirst
10-10-2009, 14:21
Could the other half be somethign as lame as a LOTR release. The new Harad models were released in the same month as SW and WD did mention that Rohan was getting me models

blake
10-10-2009, 14:46
I can understand why some people wish to complain about the fact that space marine's continually get new codex's but you have to realize a few things:

1. Even if Space Marine or their evil equivalents only makeup 40-50% of the codices they makeup easily 60% of the player base of 40k. They are the ubiquitous symbol of what 40k is. So many of us got into 40k simply because of Space Marine's and they will continue to bring in so many more players.

2. Blood Angels have a White Dwarf update, and I honestly think this upsets Games Workshop to leave it at just that. Every true standalone army should have a book and I think this is them fixing this problem.

3. This is the most important reason. Space Marine variants are the easiest types of releases GW's can do. It requires 1 maybe 2 plastic sets and a couple metal blisters. The entire "base" of your army is already available (in plastics) so to create an entirely new flavor of marines you just need to tinker with the look through an upgrade sprue. You look at Dark Eldar, Necron's, Tau and Tyranids all of the Xeno's races require full and extensive rules as well as several new kits.

Anyways I think Xenos players will have a lot on their plate next year, i maybe wrong but i would think with Tyranid's you are likely to see either Tau or perhaps Dark Eldar released as well sometime during late 2010, and no matter how it makes you feel more armies to choose from (even marine variants) is a good thing in my opinion.

Vladimir Pugh
10-10-2009, 15:06
I'm looking forward to the new Blood Angels.

A quick question though. Many here seem to take what the member Harry says very seriously. Me, being a new member, have no idea of who he is however. Could someone explain this to me? Does he work at GW? Just curious. :p

Zanzibarthefirst
10-10-2009, 15:27
When you say that Marines dont require that much work because they al;ready have a solid existing range that is not exactly truew. Most releases be it Space MArines or not oormally include 3 or 4 plastic boxsets and roughtly the same number of metals.

Tyrranids: 3 new plastics, 3 new metals
Skaven: 3 new plastics, 3 new metlas
Space Wolves: 2 new plastics, 3 new metals
Imperial Guard: 4 new plastics plus 2 more in an additional wave and 2 repackaged, 6 new metals
Lizardmen: 2 new plastics, 5 new metals
Warriors of Chaos: 3 new plastics, 8 new metals
Space Marines: 4 new plastics plust an addition 2 later, 7 metals plus 2 more later on
Dark Elves: 2 new plastics, 7 new metals

My point being is that the excuse that marines have less to do doesnt work because every army gets around about the same amount of plastics (which take more effort to design)

MajorWesJanson
10-10-2009, 15:54
Since 5th edition started, there has only been a handful of Codexes released, but I imagine that work was being done on several more. Guessin no expansion in '10, there may a bit of a backlog of codexes, resulting in 3-4 40K books coming out.

Nids and Blood Angels tie in well to Space hulk. Dark Eldar seem to be getting there. Necrons are further down the line, but nothing has been said about Tau one way or the other. Black Templars and Dark Angels would be a easy release towards the end of the year, as their lines are mostly complete already.

Dark Eldar will have a lot of models coming out in a wave or two, as most their old range needs redone. Stacking them up with a couple of marine books that only need a few models each would let them use some of the production that would be devoted to the marine releases to go towards a larger DE release.

Black Templars could reuse a lot of the parts from their existing upgrade sprue. Maybe a crusader box like the wolf pack with parts for both scouts and normal marines. Metals, if they add some more characters, they can make more blisters.

Dark Angels already have good upgrade sprues, just rerelease the veteran kit and the ravenwing and battleforce. For new boxes, they could rebox the generic terminators to a single box with all the options and more parts, like how Wolf guard is packed. Then maybe a plastic venerable Dread with more weapon options, including mortis weapons.

tryanotherone
10-10-2009, 16:02
Will there ever be a thread on Warseer or in the '40k section' that DOESN'T have someone complaining about the lack of DE/DH/Nec codex. Or at least whenever a rumour about a new codex pops up.



Not unless some of the older races / codices get a bit more love by the GW design team.;)

Murphy's law
10-10-2009, 16:29
Would be so nice if people stopped whining, just for one day.

Kalishnikov-47
10-10-2009, 16:56
Would be so nice if people stopped whinning, just for one day.

The name of your profile says it all man. If there is anyone who can whine they will whine.... Muprhys 40k law.

Over on Bell of lost souls Pedrokantor had said that the sprues looked amazing. He went on about other things but I am waiting fro him to comment here unless I missed it.

Marshal Augustine
10-10-2009, 16:57
I doubt it will be BT and BA in close succession... 2 CC marine armies one after another? Meh maybe so but I doubt it. BT are still a strong list, abeit archaic in some of their rules, but definitely work better then BA!

aka_mythos
10-10-2009, 17:25
When you say that Marines dont require that much work because they al;ready have a solid existing range that is not exactly truew. Most releases be it Space MArines or not oormally include 3 or 4 plastic boxsets and roughtly the same number of metals.
...
My point being is that the excuse that marines have less to do doesnt work because every army gets around about the same amount of plastics (which take more effort to design)
I think the part of the point you miss is that it isn't about saving time and effort now or even in the past, but its a future time saving. While all the armies are getting about the same marines are effectively complete. No real additional time or effort is needed on them anymore. That means those people who had been doing marines can shift their attention to other things. Their focused attention will get more done than if their attention were divided with more big marine releases.

Harry
10-10-2009, 17:25
Reminds me of fortune tellers.

Neither confirms nor denies, draw your own conclusions, they'll eventually come true.
Yup, sorry about that.
I was asked to neither confirm or deny things. Dropping half arsed, cryptic hints is just about all I have left. But once you get used to reading in between the lines ....


Currently there are 17 codexes.. 8 of them are space marines of some sort.

So, logically every other codex release will be space marines.
Don't be coming here with logic mate. :D

As it happens this logical pattern continues. (More or less).


Wasn´t the chorus of the rumours that 2010 would be a fantasy year? Because we already know the names of the next 2 ( 2 and a half, 3) 40k codicies.

It can be that I did misunderstood
Nope you didn't misunderstand. It is just a packed schedule. I have heard about four maybe five 40K projects for next year and yet I still maintain it is a year for fantasy.


Please read my signature to understand why you're wrong.I did follow the link .... and the evidence clearly proves your points but .... thats just more logic, backed up by solid evidence. So stop wasting every bodies time. :D


A quick question though. Many here seem to take what the member Harry says very seriously. Me, being a new member, have no idea of who he is however. Could someone explain this to me? Does he work at GW? Complete tool. Just ignore him. :D


Would be so nice if people stopped whinning, just for one day.This is Warseer. Couldn't you wish for something more realistic ... like World peace. :D

Arkley
10-10-2009, 17:31
Harry I am sorry for this but I have thought about it... You are like a stripper damn good at teasing :)

On topic, It will be nice for the Sons of Baal to get their day in the sun (Sunblock ftw sorry :p). I hate to wishlist for the second part of the bombshell maybe DE?

Rick Blaine
10-10-2009, 17:32
Nope you didn't misunderstand. It is just a packed schedule. I have heard about four maybe five 40K projects for next year and I still maintain it is a year for fantasy.

No offense, Harry, but in my experience GW always plans to have 4-5 projects for each system "next year" and we invariably ends up getting 2, maybe 3 on a good year. There's a cumulative delay of about a month for each project, so planned January releases end up being February releases, June releases come out in December and December releases end up being December releases next year.

MR.Tea
10-10-2009, 17:37
But Harry, give us a pattern for reading yours "between the lines" hints...with that, eaven the world peace is not far away.

aka_mythos
10-10-2009, 17:40
I can understand why some people wish to complain about the fact that space marine's continually get new codex's but you have to realize a few things:

1. Even if Space Marine or their evil equivalents only makeup 40-50% of the codices they makeup easily 60% of the player base of 40k. They are the ubiquitous symbol of what 40k is. So many of us got into 40k simply because of Space Marine's and they will continue to bring in so many more players.

2. Blood Angels have a White Dwarf update, and I honestly think this upsets Games Workshop to leave it at just that. Every true standalone army should have a book and I think this is them fixing this problem.

3. This is the most important reason. Space Marine variants are the easiest types of releases GW's can do. It requires 1 maybe 2 plastic sets and a couple metal blisters. The entire "base" of your army is already available (in plastics) so to create an entirely new flavor of marines you just need to tinker with the look through an upgrade sprue. You look at Dark Eldar, Necron's, Tau and Tyranids all of the Xeno's races require full and extensive rules as well as several new kits.

Anyways I think Xenos players will have a lot on their plate next year, i maybe wrong but i would think with Tyranid's you are likely to see either Tau or perhaps Dark Eldar released as well sometime during late 2010, and no matter how it makes you feel more armies to choose from (even marine variants) is a good thing in my opinion.I agree completely.


This is a totally bogus argument. They said the same thing when they were redoing Marines for 4th edition and it didn't seem to free up any time for the other armies. By the time all the Smurfs get done, they have to release a new edition and immediately update the Smurfs all over again :rolleyes: You should look at the fact that they got so much more accomplished in 4th edition and the fact that it really seems like a lot of books could come out this year supports the continuing trend.

Can you blame GW either, while one could make a chicken or the egg argument, the simple economics is that marines are easy for GW to do and compose 60% of all their sale. The simple fact of it, the hobby needs marines, because their easy profitability pays for the risk and lower profitability of other armies.

Harry
10-10-2009, 17:52
Harry I am sorry for this but I have thought about it... You are like a stripper damn good at teasing :)
However, with a stripper you eventually get to see everything she has got where as these days I am more like a seventeen year old virgin. Damn good at teasing but I go home with my pants on leaving you boys wanting more and having to sort yourselves out. :D

Einholt
10-10-2009, 18:01
That second part about going home with pants on doesn't happen with 17 year olds any more.... but I get what your are saying.

Warp-Juicer
10-10-2009, 18:10
I'm looking forward to the new Blood Angels.

A quick question though. Many here seem to take what the member Harry says very seriously. Me, being a new member, have no idea of who he is however. Could someone explain this to me? Does he work at GW? Just curious. :p

He is the pie man, coocoocatchoo.

Anyways, if its not Dark Angels being tossed in, its either a different non-spacemarine codex to mirror it - although I would remind people that march is a Fantasy Army's release slot - or he also means Black Templar.

Bloodspeaker
10-10-2009, 18:12
That's great news before everyone get's all worked up just think that sooner or later they will run out of other armies to update so they will be forced to update DE/Crons or inquisition. :D

Arhalien
10-10-2009, 18:16
However, with a stripper you eventually get to see everything she has got where as these days I am more like a seventeen year old virgin. Damn good at teasing but I go home with my pants on leaving you boys wanting more and having to sort yourselves out. :D

Been preparing that metaphor for a while Harry? :p

Teufelskerl
10-10-2009, 18:20
I've read between the lines on all Harry's posts and have determined that GW will be releasing Codex: World Peace in 2010.

Who knew? Real surprise. Here we thought there was going to be nothing but war...


Frederich

Grimbad
10-10-2009, 18:35
A quick question though. Many here seem to take what the member Harry says very seriously. Me, being a new member, have no idea of who he is however. Could someone explain this to me? Does he work at GW? Just curious. :p

It is said that he once slew a silver bullet by firing a werewolf at it, and that he won a staring contest with the Lincoln Memorial.



As it happens this logical pattern continues.


So it'll be Blood Angels and a non-marine release?

Corrode
10-10-2009, 18:47
On topic, It will be nice for the Sons of Baal to get their day in the sun (Sunblock ftw sorry :p). I hate to wishlist for the second part of the bombshell maybe DE?

I would have thought the last thing the vampire Marines needed was a day in the sun!


He is the pie man, coocoocatchoo.

Anyways, if its not Dark Angels being tossed in, its either a different non-spacemarine codex to mirror it - although I would remind people that march is a Fantasy Army's release slot - or he also means Black Templar.

March isn't necessarily a Fantasy release slot - it wasn't this year, for example. It could easily follow the pattern of Tyranids in January, Fantasy army (Beasts I think?) in February, Blood Angels March, whatever terrain piece of expansion ends up taking up a slot in April, then the big Fantasy summer releases for May -> July.

Wuestenfux
10-10-2009, 18:56
These are absolutely great news.
Blood Angels deserve a better codex than the jervisified one published in WD.

Drakkisath
10-10-2009, 19:09
I am overcome with despair at the news that the "other half" will not be a Dark Angels release... :(

Prodigalson
10-10-2009, 19:19
Honestly, thinking that it is DA, or even DA related is wish listing for those of us marines that have an affection for dresses.

We got a codex not that long ago. It's widely known and is garbage, but it's the truth.

GW doesn't fix mistakes that they make, and they only release codexes when they want to sell more models. There is no way they have come up with new DA stuff to sell us, ergo, no DA codex. DA codex = 2012-2014.

On the other hand, I hope for the sake of our Blood covered brothers that their codex is closer to the Space Wolves and not like our lamentable codex. Take it as a lesson to always make your own chapter, so that you aren't ever caught in the cold by a bad codex. It's sad when an entire army has to shiver in the cold of the back of the closet because of their green-haired stepchild syndrome.

For instance, if I was playing wolves, you can bet your sweet @*% that I would be painting them some other color, or if blood angels, I would do another chapter, like Lamentors or something like that.

For The Green Marines!

massey
10-10-2009, 19:22
I am overcome with despair at the news that the "other half" will not be a Dark Angels release... :(

I'm not so sure. Harry did seem to deny it, but my wishful thinking is very strong. I think my wishing hard enough might be enough to overcome Harry's seeming denial.

Zanzibarthefirst
10-10-2009, 19:32
I think the part of the point you miss is that it isn't about saving time and effort now or even in the past, but its a future time saving. While all the armies are getting about the same marines are effectively complete. No real additional time or effort is needed on them anymore. That means those people who had been doing marines can shift their attention to other things. Their focused attention will get more done than if their attention were divided with more big marine releases.

Granted for marines, any future project already has a template for which they can simply modify. Those wolf claws on the SW sprue can have their symbols changed and they now become lightning claws for BA etc... Even though SPace Marines are complete, that will not stop GW from producing new models for them in the future. In a few year s times no doubt we'll see new tacticla squads, new assault squads, predators etc... Because Marines make a lot of money for GW, designers will always be spending a lot of their time on SM

Whilst Marines cover a lot of the release schedule, GW still manages to produce new stuff for those armies which do not have such a strong template to work with. Yes it will be a lot harder for another army to go from one edition to another but the time scale still shoudlnt be that long. DE are always talked about as being completely redone but i be they'll only get 3 or 4 plastics at most. Necrons need even less work but it'll still be ages before both of them are complete

Corrode
10-10-2009, 19:32
post

It would have made a bit of sense - after all, the Dark Angels need something a little unique to make them stand out, but besides that the major weakness of the list is that it doesn't stack up well next to the very similar Codex: Space Marines. Update the point costs a little, fix the Storm Shield Anomaly, give them some unique psychic powers and maybe a shiny toy or two and the Dark Angels are done. That opens up space in the release schedule, lets them push two decently-selling armies at once (whilst also indirectly supporting general Marines), and with the excellent Veteran kit and Ravenwing Bikes most of the work is already done. Sadly it seems it's not going to be that way, but it certainly wasn't an illogical idea.

5deadly
10-10-2009, 19:39
As a D.I.Y. Chapter player I love it when a new dex come around...

This is good news, more meltas, more cool pretty faced barehead bits.... and cleaning blood drops is a snap. clean trim, replace with fiddlybit...

I believe that 5th is the new 3rd. as in this.... all the armies will be done for 5th, but in due time... the imperial stuff outnumbers all the xenos anyway...

Want me to hang up my bolter for a bit...? Give Eldar as much plastic as Orks or Marines... plastic, easily convertable Aspect warriors, plastic Autarch, plastic warlock kits... watch the amount of Eldar players sky rocket.

Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tau, Tyranid, Eldar, Orks... theres your xenos vs.

Chaos, Demonhunters, Witchhunters, Ultramarines(nilla), Dark angels, Blood angels, Space wolves, Black templars, Imperial guard, did I miss an army?
all human based armies.

Necrons are pretty stupid, Dark Eldar just disappoint, Tau... Gw's nod to anime... laughable the harder they try the funnier Tau get... Tyranid are nice they don't "Mirror" a fantasy army I like them, Eldar need plastics for such an old army they get the shaft... Orcs... please...no more ork plastics... please...

you could do 2 Human releases for ever xenos released... tyranids next... then Human,Human,Xenos...

I wonder if they'll make Adonis Armor in plastic...? lots of Ann Rice Pretty vampires... it'll be a break from the screaming baldys

Marines bring in money.

starlight
10-10-2009, 20:12
Do not make me come through here Deleting Spam Posts...again... :mad:

You won't like it... :( Stay On Topic and feel free to Delete your own Spam Posts before I get to them... Mercy will be extended to those policing their own Posts.

starlight
The Warseer Inquisition

burnthecitydown
10-10-2009, 20:28
It's just a random guess, but I remember that the one of the Blood Angels apocalypse datasheets had three Thunderhawks on it, which is pretty unfeasible for most modellers. I hate to flog the plastic Thunderhawk rumour anymore than has been done already, but any dice?

megatrons2nd
10-10-2009, 23:33
A series of "Versus" codices would be an interesting way to go to get more non-Imperial armies out there.

That would actually make sense in the context of a story. One Imperial and one Xenos at about the same time would make for a good story. You also can't have much of a war story without an antagonist.

Ravenheart
10-10-2009, 23:41
The only background-established antagonist of the Blood Angels are the Black Legion CSM (most notably Abbaddon). But even that is pulled by the hair.

I guess a supplyment book is more likely than a codex relase next to the BA.

Lexington
10-10-2009, 23:56
As much as I pray the "other half" to be DA, I'm not holding my breath. That would be, like the quickest codex update in the history of GW, would it not?
Actually, it wouldn't be. By early next year, the Dark Angels Codex will be four years old. There were only three or so years between the original 3rd Edition Chaos Codex (1999) and the "3.5" version (2002), so this wouldn't be the fastest turnaround in GW history.

Since (unfortunately), the Studio decided to kick the more balanced and elegant "Jervis" era design template to the curb in favor of the new "Bigger An' Badder" style books, I'd say the chronically underpowered DA are in need of a quick re-do. One worries, though, that both the BA and DA will have more ridiculous Thunderwolf Cavalry-esque additions to their list, seeing as GW just can't seem to help themselves lately.

jimbo1701
10-10-2009, 23:57
The only background-established antagonist of the Blood Angels are the Black Legion CSM (most notably Abbaddon). But even that is pulled by the hair.

I guess a supplyment book is more likely than a codex relase next to the BA.

Them, and the tyranids who slaughtered almost the entire chapter. Not to mention the Orks of Armageddon whom tycho (R.I.P) had a particular hatred of and, by extension, I gather the BAs did due to their involvement in Armageddon. I also personally think the BAs have a hatred for daemons, seeing as Sanguinnius had a grudge match with a particular bloodthirster and the BAs will contain his memories upon entering the black rage.

Ravenheart
11-10-2009, 00:01
Them, and the tyranids who slaughtered almost the entire chapter. Not to mention the Orks of Armageddon whom tycho (R.I.P) had a particular hatred of and, by extension, I gather the BAs did due to their involvement in Armageddon. I also personally think the BAs have a hatred for daemons, seeing as Sanguinnius had a grudge match with a particular bloodthirster and the BAs will contain his memories upon entering the black rage.

Yeah, but all the forces in question already got their codex released not too long ago (and Nids will get theirs next). As such, the 'versus' codex holds little footing given the current BA background.

dblaz3r
11-10-2009, 00:11
Actually, it wouldn't be. By early next year, the Dark Angels Codex will be four years old.

You mean 3 years. They were released early 2007. ;)

megatrons2nd
11-10-2009, 00:19
As it happens this logical pattern continues. (More or less).


This and the half of the story thing is what has me thinking along the lines of two opposing army codexes. However, I can also see a campaign book or some other kind of expansion(not that there is much else to expand to) coming. That and rumored chaos legion type books coming to.

Zanzibarthefirst
11-10-2009, 00:34
Im sure history between the necrons and the blood angels could be invented for the sake of releasing a versus codex. IIRC werent releases for SM and DE released at the same time when 3rd edition came out albeit spread over a number of months

pointedstick
11-10-2009, 00:57
Do not make me come through here Deleting Spam Posts...again...

You may as well close the thread, it is only going in circles with people complaining about the number of marine releases, and others defending them. Exactly the same arguments repeated ad nauseam in every thread every time marines are mentioned.

Vesica
11-10-2009, 01:07
Hmmm im excited.

Might have to put off doing anything major with my BA.

Chaos and Evil
11-10-2009, 01:59
Maybe the 'other half' is a type of evil Marine.

BlackLegion
11-10-2009, 02:10
Or one half is the Blood Angels codex and the other half is the Blood Angels sprue.

The Dude
11-10-2009, 02:12
However, with a stripper you eventually get to see everything she has got where as these days I am more like a seventeen year old virgin. Damn good at teasing but I go home with my pants on leaving you boys wanting more and having to sort yourselves out. :D

And that's why these threads always get so messy :p

Marshal2Crusaders
11-10-2009, 02:13
Maybe the other half is just a standalone Dark Angels Codex-redo at the same time as the Blood Angels are released, just like last time....



With no models of course, they are good to go.

Joewrightgm
11-10-2009, 02:55
Nope you didn't misunderstand. It is just a packed schedule. I have heard about four maybe five 40K projects for next year and yet I still maintain it is a year for fantasy.


4 or 5 40k based projects? Interesting. So we have possibly 3 of the 4/5, Tyranids and Blood Angels and the partner book in the same month. Maybe if we're good we'll get 2 more.

So, process of elimination, what is left to refresh? Inquisition (counting as one for simplicity sake and the vacuum of speculation), Dark Eldar, Necrons, Black Templars, Dark Angels.

So the schedule could be a permutation of any of the above combined: IE Tyranids, followed by Blood Angels and a second army in a dual release, then one or two others; assuming the other is an actual codex or another battle supplement for 40k.

Kind of sounds like that the schedule has been front loaded in favor of 40k, then with regular fantasy releases through out.

Thought just occurred to me; Matt Ward has been assigned the Necron Codex, if the GD UK thread is to be believed. An interview with Andy Hoare said that the book comes after the minis have been knocked out, leaving a three or four month window for writing, balancing, and printing of the new book.

The Question becomes: When does the author get assigned to the codex? Because if he has been given the gig and assignment of the book happens late in the process, we may be seeing a Blood Angels/ Necron release. Which would be supremely strange for me.

On the other hand, if the book is assigned early in the process, then this is moot, and we may see Necrons released late 2010, or early 2011.

Harry, you seem to know a bit about the design process; could you reinforce or poke a hole in my logic here?

FerociousBeast
11-10-2009, 03:12
You are not all wrong.

Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :DThis is probably hopelessly optimistic on my part, but...

"Not Angels of Death"
does not equal
"Not simultaneous re-release of updated Codex: Dark Angels"
nor does it equal
"Not White Dwarf mini-dex"

Either of which would be welcome to me. :)


Nope you didn't misunderstand. It is just a packed schedule. I have heard about four maybe five 40K projects for next year and yet I still maintain it is a year for fantasy.
I hate to doubt the Pieman, but I do distinctly remember Harry saying that 2009 would see 3 army codexes and 1 40k supplement. The context was in denying that Space Hulk was one of those four releases.

I'd love to be wrong on this one, of course!

verydarkshadow
11-10-2009, 03:12
4 or 5 40k based projects? Interesting. So we have possibly 3 of the 4/5, Tyranids and Blood Angels and the partner book in the same month. Maybe if we're good we'll get 2 more.

So, process of elimination, what is left to refresh? Inquisition (counting as one for simplicity sake and the vacuum of speculation), Dark Eldar, Necrons, Black Templars, Dark Angels.

Don't forget Eldar, Tau, Chaos and Orks.

AmasNagol
11-10-2009, 03:18
They could just re-release the pdf with Assault Squads getting special weapons and I would be happy as a pig in the brown stuff.

I have simple needs.

AmasNagol
11-10-2009, 03:20
Just need to do Codex: World Eaters and I will be a happy man.

Joewrightgm
11-10-2009, 03:23
Don't forget Eldar, Tau, Chaos and Orks.

Tau yes, but as it stands, Eldar and Chaos and Orks especially are not in especially dire need of a re-do. Eldar, Chaos and Orks were done around a late 4th, early 5th edition paradigm.

Speaking from my own anecdotal experience, Eldar, Chaos and Orks are still very strong books, and function well.

Tau would be my included in my bracket for a high priority redo, because the other three books would get their turn next edition.

So, amended we have Dark Eldar, Necrons, Black Templars, Dark Angels, and Tau and Inquisition in line for new codices.

Arvendragon
11-10-2009, 03:39
Still pray for Dark Angels.
(EMPEROR, GIVE ME THE CODEX NOW!)

(first post)

Well, the Blood Angels look fine as of now, they just need a published codex. The Necrons and Dark Eldar wouldn't really make TOO much sense to update, as they require a lot of models (as stated previously), are still relatively balanced, and take a lot of time.

Dark and Blood Angels have a one word difference in their name, and they are like polar opposites of each other, (also, they were the 2nd and 3rd best Primarchs, I believe), but have already been in a codex before, and may make sense to be in one again.

DuskRaider
11-10-2009, 05:14
4 or 5 40k based projects? Interesting. So we have possibly 3 of the 4/5, Tyranids and Blood Angels and the partner book in the same month. Maybe if we're good we'll get 2 more.

So, process of elimination, what is left to refresh? Inquisition (counting as one for simplicity sake and the vacuum of speculation), Dark Eldar, Necrons, Black Templars, Dark Angels.

Well remember, there will no doubt be another expansion this summer (or an expansion of an expansion).

In any case, good news for the Blood Angels players! They've needed a new codex for a while, that PDF was an embarassment.

Y'inglye
11-10-2009, 05:46
I don't see any point in making this Codex. For all I care BA can play using standard "Ultramarines" Codex just like DG, TS, WE, IC, AL, IW, NL and WB have to play using Codex "Black Legion". The last four don't even have a single special character for anyone of them. So why should they be treated differently?

DuskRaider
11-10-2009, 05:48
I don't see any point in making this Codex. For all I care BA can play using standard "Ultramarines" Codex just like DG, TS, WE, IC, AL, IW, NL and WB are have to play using Codex "Black Legion". The last four don't even have a single special character for anyone of them. So why should they be treated differently?

Please don't start this again...

juliusb
11-10-2009, 07:55
I just hope BAs don't get hit with the Nerf bat too hard. I'm quite content with Dante and Corbulo giving my squads within 12" Furious Charge AND Preferred Enemy. I can fit a whole bunch of Assault marines in that "Bubble of Death" and they've yet to disappoint.

I think it's safe to say that we'll see an infantry upgrade sprue and I like the chances of what many people have suggested: a second sprue with conversion parts for plastic Baal Preds and Furiosos. Adding a new character seems to be in the cards and maybe a redo of a couple of existing metals.

Really, that seems to be a logical, educated guess at what to expect but I don't know if that fulfills Harry's comment about "just the half of it".

Plastic Thunderhawk wouldn't be in a standard 40K book.

Dark Angels already shot down by Harry.

Blood Ravens included in the 'Dex? Perhaps likely considering GW seems to want to leverage their "entry" products into 40K (Nids and BAs capitalizing on Space Hulk as an example) It surprises me it's taken them this long to leverage the exposure the Blood Ravens got from DoW into 40k.

That's what I'm putting my $ on: 2 upgrade sprues, 1 new character, 2-3 new metals and the Blood Ravens = new release.

MR.Tea
11-10-2009, 08:27
Well, Blood Ravens...diffrent story...
But if rumor is true that something of SM is coming out in 2nd month, almost at the same time when DoW II: Chaos Rising is released, it looks like BR are at the top of (my) rumor list...
Mabye "some guy with pie avatar" has something to say about that... something cryptic as always...

Wrath
11-10-2009, 09:11
Tau yes, but as it stands, Eldar and Chaos and Orks especially are not in especially dire need of a re-do.

Dunno, I really don't feel a "re-do" is in order for Tau, other then to bring them in-line with 5th. More of a deepening of the list. There really are only a few ways to really play them. Most lists are just unit variations offten doing the same thing but with a twist.

Corrode
11-10-2009, 09:57
I don't see any point in making this Codex. For all I care BA can play using standard "Ultramarines" Codex just like DG, TS, WE, IC, AL, IW, NL and WB have to play using Codex "Black Legion". The last four don't even have a single special character for anyone of them. So why should they be treated differently?

I've alerted GW to your opinion and they've immediately decided to stop doing a Blood Angels Codex. Sorry guys, speculation's over, GW don't want to upset Y'inglye.


Dunno, I really don't feel a "re-do" is in order for Tau, other then to bring them in-line with 5th. More of a deepening of the list. There really are only a few ways to really play them. Most lists are just unit variations offten doing the same thing but with a twist.

Tau are problematic in that in 4th edition they were used as a way to do a quick update, since their list didn't require much tweaking. It turned out fine until 5th edition landed 2 years later, and the Tau codex (which was tied very heavily to 4th from what I've been told) suddenly had half its gear made useless. Again, I'm not familiar with Tau, so this is just conjecture based on what other people have said, but the danger with a quick update to Tau to get them out of the way is that they once again have rules subbed in with 'here's an easy 5th edition thing we can do with them' and then in 3-4 years time a new edition is released and once again they're at the bottom of the pile.

Also there's the whole 'Tau get 3 codices in 9 years' thing which puts them at a better rate than vanilla Space Marines. That might upset the other 'new in 3rd' races, i.e. the 'crons and Dark Eldar.

Souleater
11-10-2009, 10:07
But GW can avoid the problems of a rapid update by releasing FAQs to fix edition specific problems.

I know one of the GW bods said they didn't like releasing FAQs because they didn't want to hand people a sheet of paper with each codex. But we already have MRB faqs and most people who play this game have access to a printer and the internet.

It's not like twenty or so years ago when I needed to erreta my Ad&D rulebooks - I had to buy a certain copy of a certain magazine. These days GW could keep up to date rules amendments on their site and update them once per month.

The argument that the game is designed to be friendly rather than competitive is perhaps to blame for the slow pace of rules clarifictions. I think, however, that designing the game to be tightly written and competive first then allowing the players to tweak in a friendly setting would benefit the players and take some of the hassle from GWs shoulders.

As to BA needing a dex. I drool mentally at the prospect of the figures, I really do but as a long time occasional BA player I don't know if we still need a seperate codex. BA do have variation from Vanilla but with the amout of varitation the SM dex offers through SCs...is it worth it?

BA need to be made more different than they are. BT different (in fact given BAs apparent desire to get to grips with the enemy maybe they should nick some training methods.)

I hope BA don't end up with Blood Blades, Giant Vampire Bat Cavalry, etc. :D

Or sparkles...I still have no idea about the twinkles in Twilight, nor do I wish to know. But none of them.

Darthvegeta800
11-10-2009, 10:09
I'd be surprised if Dark Angels got a do-over so soon. Gw seems to aim for about one marine codex a year don't they? Wolves then BA and then more marines? I hope they're pacing themselves.

To me, Grey Knights seems more likely than Dark Angels if there are going to be two power armoured releases next year.

I'd already be thrilled with a Grey Knight FREE MINICODEX online like the BA had. I don't even want more units for them. Just a few corrections/additions to make them slightly more playable.

...

I can dream... :rolleyes:

Ician
11-10-2009, 10:19
Personally as a BA player since 1st Ed I am really looking forward to see what happens with this rumour. Though it will be nice to see what happens with the blood angels I would still like to see the other *pre mentioned* codex's getting a release, in the future some time.

With the Codex I am really not looking forward to getting a joint codex again... Just by the fact that it would make me feel that my chapter had fallen from GW Grace... What with James Swallows personally Killing off my beloved chapter I am sum what expecting the codex to be in line with the last marine related codex's and I am in hope for some rather nifty little trinkets...

Just looking at the BA army dex you can tell what needs to be redone and I truly hope that it will happen. Some minis really really need to be put under the scalping tools and most of the points in the army really should be brought into line with the current space marine codex of course still increasing additional for DC.

I would like to see and I do hope someone from GW reads this... In the standard box sets for chapter upgrades, I would love to see 11 minis. Just so every time we buy a set you get your standard unit... and then your free DC... Let’s face it... A lot of people who play BA would just give a little cheeky grin if that happened.

*wish listing over*

But I am assuming that as were having the BA now, we can live in hope that Dark Angels might be popping their ugly heads up soon... But hopefully after a Cron, or Tau, or Dark Eldar, or Inquisition Codex.

Corrode
11-10-2009, 10:21
post

I would advocate a more robust errata system. The codices already state that there's more to be found on the website and in White Dwarf, an extension of that system wouldn't be too difficult. Just a note saying 'on occasion, a codex is in use for longer than the edition of the game it was designed for. In this event, it is worth checking the FAQ section of the website at www.games-workshop.com/faq in order to find out how the changes will affect your army.' Tournaments will use them, they can be posted up in GW stores, and games at home between friends don't care about them anyway.

Hankyaku
11-10-2009, 11:35
Even if the DA won't get a new codex (remember you may easily construct totally fluffy DA lists using C:SM and C:SW), I'm happy that the BA get attention at last! (I don't play them, but I really do like the fluff and background - not to mention the sight of 6 Rhinos, a LRC and two assault squads...)

Murphy's law
11-10-2009, 12:15
I don't see any point in making this Codex. For all I care BA can play using standard "Ultramarines" Codex just like DG, TS, WE, IC, AL, IW, NL and WB have to play using Codex "Black Legion". The last four don't even have a single special character for anyone of them. So why should they be treated differently?

This is nonsense.
Blood Angels are very different to the standard marine codex.
Baal predators, Rhino's with overcharged engines, Death Company, special characters furioso dreadnought, Assaultmarines as troops.

Idaan
11-10-2009, 12:19
They could be easily added to the standard Marine Codex. Baal Predator would be just like LR Crusader, Death Company could be done just like Legion of the Damned and a few Special Characters would suffice. Assault Marines are an asspull either way, because Blood Angels don't have more of them than Codex Chapters.
Same could be done for Dark Angels.
Everyone would be happy, BA and DA would have up-to-date wargear, Chaos players would stop whining about no Legion codices, Dark Eldar and Necrons would be finally released and the universe would bask in the eternal radiance.

Murphy's law
11-10-2009, 12:39
They could be easily added to the standard Marine Codex. Baal Predator would be just like LR Crusader, Death Company could be done just like Legion of the Damned and a few Special Characters would suffice. Assault Marines are an asspull either way, because Blood Angels don't have more of them than Codex Chapters.Same could be done for Dark Angels.Everyone would be happy, BA and DA would have up-to-date wargear, Chaos players would stop whining about no Legion codices, Dark Eldar and Necrons would be finally released and the universe would bask in the eternal radiance.

"Baal predator would be just like LR Crusader"???
Are you kidding me?

Putting all non-codex astartes chapters like space wolves/Dark Angel/Blood Angels together in 1 codex would have been acceptable to me.

Incoming
11-10-2009, 13:57
Well in reply to Fury just now and the whole thread.
GW should place all the stories and background and the main pieces of pictures in other publications.

Then they could publicate all the army lists in one big publication. Close to each other the rulelists would be as easy to balance like smoothness going into perfection actually...

If someones wants to argue this with that Oh no, they wouldn't sell. Hey come on of course they would sell. Thats number one and an o of the course.

Look what you do is create a science-fiction-fantasy army using your own fantasy. The goal is to do, yes that using creativity. So what you want is having those books (currently the painting and fluff parts of the books) giving you inspiration next to the project on your desktop. Or reading while you ponder and imagine the looks and fluff of your army, sitting or lying down in a sofa or bed.

Give them the right names and go.

massey
11-10-2009, 15:15
But GW can avoid the problems of a rapid update by releasing FAQs to fix edition specific problems.

I know one of the GW bods said they didn't like releasing FAQs because they didn't want to hand people a sheet of paper with each codex.

And I appreciate this approach. A lot.


It's not like twenty or so years ago when I needed to erreta my Ad&D rulebooks - I had to buy a certain copy of a certain magazine. These days GW could keep up to date rules amendments on their site and update them once per month.

I would HATE this. As soon as someone got used to the rules, a new FAQ comes along and changes them. I shouldn't have to check the internet every month to see if my army still works. Yeah, I have access to the internet, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here. But I shouldn't be reliant on it when I have a hard copy of the book in my hands. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but one of the reasons I never wanted to play Magic was because every other week the rules would change.


I hope BA don't end up with Blood Blades, Giant Vampire Bat Cavalry, etc. :D


Vampire Bat Cavalry. It would be awesome. You know this in your heart of hearts. :)

massey
11-10-2009, 15:19
They could be easily added to the standard Marine Codex. Baal Predator would be just like LR Crusader, Death Company could be done just like Legion of the Damned and a few Special Characters would suffice. Assault Marines are an asspull either way, because Blood Angels don't have more of them than Codex Chapters.
Same could be done for Dark Angels.
Everyone would be happy, BA and DA would have up-to-date wargear, Chaos players would stop whining about no Legion codices, Dark Eldar and Necrons would be finally released and the universe would bask in the eternal radiance.

What are you talking about? You would slash your wrists and set yourself on fire if March rolls around and GW releases another Codex: Space Marines, this time with some Blood Angel and Dark Angel characters.

The fact is, they didn't include Blood Angel and Dark Angel characters. You need to realize that comments about "GW should just put them all in one book", are really calls to release another C:SM.

rabblerouser
11-10-2009, 15:24
See the thing about GW and 40k especially, is that books get released as support for new miniatures. GW really is a miniatures company, not a games company. Now it's very unlikely that dark angels will get new plastics because they already have really nice kits, so i'm thinking they will not be redone any time soon even if they need an update. By the same logic, black templars are far off. Blood angels on the other hand, haven't been touched in a while. And since space hulk did so well, some people will be eager to buy a couple of other blood angel units to go with the awesome terminators they already have. So yeah, it makes sense to do blood angels next. Tyranids as well, by the same logic.

Rick Blaine
11-10-2009, 17:08
The fact is, they didn't include Blood Angel and Dark Angel characters. You need to realize that comments about "GW should just put them all in one book", are really calls to release another C:SM.

I could live with it if it meant 4 years without any Marines after that :D

StarFyreXXX
11-10-2009, 17:27
What are "angels of death" vs Blood Angels? a special type of Blood angels army?

Sanjay

Kalishnikov-47
11-10-2009, 17:37
What are "angels of death" vs Blood Angels? a special type of Blood angels army?

Sanjay

Angels of Death was a codex of sorts that combined the Blood Angels and Dark Angels.

rabblerouser
11-10-2009, 17:38
What are "angels of death" vs Blood Angels? a special type of Blood angels army?

Sanjay

Angels of death was a 2nd edition codex that covered blood angels and dark angels in one book. Some people seem to think that the two chapters may be grouped together again, even though it's a bad idea and unlikely to happen

Corrode
11-10-2009, 17:39
What are "angels of death" vs Blood Angels? a special type of Blood angels army?

Sanjay

Angels of Death means a couple of different things:

1 - A generic term for all Space Marines.
2 - A Codex produced in 2nd edition entitled 'Angels of Death' which covered both the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels. It was so named due to their both being, well, Angels.
3 - the Angel of Death is a common symbol for the Dark Angels (see the Indomitable Fortress).

In this context Codex: Angels of Death would have meant a return of the 2nd edition joint codex.

jimbo1701
11-10-2009, 17:44
They could be easily added to the standard Marine Codex. Baal Predator would be just like LR Crusader, Death Company could be done just like Legion of the Damned and a few Special Characters would suffice. Assault Marines are an asspull either way, because Blood Angels don't have more of them than Codex Chapters.
Same could be done for Dark Angels.
Everyone would be happy, BA and DA would have up-to-date wargear, Chaos players would stop whining about no Legion codices, Dark Eldar and Necrons would be finally released and the universe would bask in the eternal radiance.

LotD as a stand in for death company?????

Apart from the basic stats and fearless (and both being painted black) they are nothing at all alike. Since when did LotD get furious charge, an extra CCW, rending, feel no pain and a jump pack option? Probably about the same time that death company began deep striking with heavy flamers and gained relentless and an invulnerable save. If nothing else, this post serves to highlight the need for different codices, as there are several units in the 'non-codex' armies which just have no substitute in the standard SM codex.

massey
11-10-2009, 17:54
LotD as a stand in for death company?????

Apart from the basic stats and fearless (and both being painted black) they are nothing at all alike. Since when did LotD get furious charge, an extra CCW, rending, feel no pain and a jump pack option? Probably about the same time that death company began deep striking with heavy flamers and gained relentless and an invulnerable save. If nothing else, this post serves to highlight the need for different codices, as there are several units in the 'non-codex' armies which just have no substitute in the standard SM codex.

I think he means having an entry in the SM book similar to the Legion of the Damned. So you could have a "Death Company" entry, with its own stats and rules, available to all marines. Even though only the Blood Angels and their descendants use the Death Company, he would include it as a generic choice just like LotD. And simply, if you're not Blood Angels, you just don't take it.

I guess you could give a Blood Angel special character, perhaps a chaplain, and his special rule would be he gave any Assault Squad or Vanguard Vet squad he joined both Furious Charge and FNP. And that would represent him leading the Death Company.

magnum12
11-10-2009, 17:59
Based on what Harry has said about 2010 being a fantasy year and there being 4-5 major 40k releases, I can make a conclusion that the "theme" of 2010's 40k releases is "quick and dirty". In this case "quick and dirty" means armies that you can release a good quality codex without the need for serious changes and reworks to the army. Nids, BA, and DA seem to fit this mold pretty well as these armies don't really need that many changes to be effective on the table top. Based on this theme, I'm going to predict that the most likely candidates for the 4th slot are Black Templar, Tau, and to a lesser extent Necron.

Ominous Anonymous
11-10-2009, 18:34
The only problem then is that you'd have Ultramarines and Imperial Fists with access to Death Company. :wtf:

Lord Damocles
11-10-2009, 18:47
The only problem then is that you'd have Ultramarines and Imperial Fists with access to Death Company. :wtf:
As opposed to Ultramarines and Imperial Fists having access to Mortis and Furioso Ironclad Dreadnoughts...

Ominous Anonymous
11-10-2009, 18:55
I can't imagine Blood Angels being the only chapter to ever think of using a Dreadnought with two DCCWs, especially when it involves siegework, but the Black Rage is something entirely unique to the Blood Angels and their successors.

Idaan
11-10-2009, 19:21
What are you talking about? You would slash your wrists and set yourself on fire if March rolls around and GW releases another Codex: Space Marines, this time with some Blood Angel and Dark Angel characters.

The fact is, they didn't include Blood Angel and Dark Angel characters. You need to realize that comments about "GW should just put them all in one book", are really calls to release another C:SM.Well, as long as this meant equality for all races, end of unneeded lists cluttering the release schedule, and BA and DA finally being up-to-date, I'd be quite happy actually.

The only other fair solution is lists for every major Craftworld, Clan, Regiment, Hive fleet and Chaos Legion, which is even less likely.


I think he means having an entry in the SM book similar to the Legion of the Damned. So you could have a "Death Company" entry, with its own stats and rules, available to all marines. Even though only the Blood Angels and their descendants use the Death Company, he would include it as a generic choice just like LotD. And simply, if you're not Blood Angels, you just don't take it.

I guess you could give a Blood Angel special character, perhaps a chaplain, and his special rule would be he gave any Assault Squad or Vanguard Vet squad he joined both Furious Charge and FNP. And that would represent him leading the Death Company.Indeed, that's what I meant.


I can't imagine Blood Angels being the only chapter to ever think of using a Dreadnought with two DCCWs, especially when it involves siegework, but the Black Rage is something entirely unique to the Blood Angels and their successors.Vulkan He'stan is also entirely unique to Salamanders. Same for Calgar, Lysander etc. If you feel like not taking them, don't. If your oponent takes them, refuse to play him or hit him with a chair when he turns away.

But yeah, as massey said, it's not going to happen because it's fair and sensible, not necessarily profitable.

Ominous Anonymous
11-10-2009, 19:30
"Fair and sensible" is one way of putting it, sure. :rolleyes:

Angels of Death works, one giant, bloated Marine codex wouldn't.

aka_mythos
11-10-2009, 20:42
Based on what Harry has said about 2010 being a fantasy year and there being 4-5 major 40k releases, I can make a conclusion that the "theme" of 2010's 40k releases is "quick and dirty". In this case "quick and dirty" means armies that you can release a good quality codex without the need for serious changes and reworks to the army. Nids, BA, and DA seem to fit this mold pretty well as these armies don't really need that many changes to be effective on the table top. Based on this theme, I'm going to predict that the most likely candidates for the 4th slot are Black Templar, Tau, and to a lesser extent Necron. I can kinda see what your saying and it makes sense to me. I don't think Necrons really fall into that category but the rest easily do. Nids being at the start of the year wouldn't need to follow the quick and dirty cycle. BA, need a couple of accessory sprues... may a few redone characters. DA and BT, are already done models and easily benefit from the marine mojo of the main codex and see the redone kits that benefit all marines, like razorback or dreadnought.
The same could also be said of some of the Chaos legions, if they were to get their own books, god specific blends of Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Demons wouldn't require much effort. Tau would only really need any new unit GW decided to add, since they're a pretty complete set... maybe plastic pathfinders and more characters.

Marshal2Crusaders
11-10-2009, 21:09
Well, as long as this meant equality for all races...


LOL.


Idaan is right, if people will just look at this long term if all the Marine Codexes are updated by the beginning of 2011, what else is there for GW to do but focus solely on updating the rest of the races? If 2010 is a year for fantasy, its likely 2011 is a year for 40K which means several big releases. Big releases like entire model lines being redone....

Scelerat
11-10-2009, 21:23
I'm going to jump on the "oh no, yet ANOTHER Marine codex?" bandwagon here. Enough with them. I know they're the best sellers, but come on... There's much more to the 40k universe than a bunch of overmuscular fanatic futuristic monks.

HsojVvad
11-10-2009, 21:31
I'm going to jump on the "oh no, yet ANOTHER Marine codex?" bandwagon here. Enough with them. I know they're the best sellers, but come on... There's much more to the 40k universe than a bunch of overmuscular fanatic futuristic monks.

Yes there is, but then in 2 years, GW goes Bankrupt and no more mini's to buy and then in 3 years nobody to play the game with.

So then you will not have to worry about anthour SM release. You will not have to worry about anthour release for anything.

Bloodspeaker
11-10-2009, 21:52
Enough with that excuse already if they can survive only by selling marines maybe it's better if they bankrupt or rename the game to marine wars and be done with it.

If they really wanted to survive sell well they should cut all these lord of the rings and warhammer historical crap and just focus on fantasy and 40K, after all they are the main cash cows support these games with new armies and by updating the old codices and GW will see their profits rising exponetially.
They can also pour more funds into advertising the more people know about the game the more customers they will have.

Anyways sooner or later they will run out of marine armies to update they will not be able to avoid DE, necrons and Inquisition forever...

Bloodspeaker
11-10-2009, 23:09
Yeah with the final effect being the alienation of the game's supporter's because they will have nothing else but marines to play with and against.

In an economical down turn as you say they must focus on the core i agree with that but the focus ain't marines the focus is W40K and fantasy realize it and know it. And i don't say that anyone should drop their hobby they can just sell the lotr license to someone else , i am certain that the benefits would be massive if they focused on 40K more, right now lotr is just a costly distraction and this comes from a lotr fan.

They should have gotten to these "fringe" dexes as you call them 5 years ago.

Now go have some fun with your "core" marines and let the rest of us dream about a rich and detailed universe with many diverse "fringe" races to command...

Lars Porsenna
11-10-2009, 23:37
I wasn't aware that historical even got any attention from GW proper - it's not exactly highly featured.

When the first Warhammer historicals ruleset -- WAB -- was published, it was done by Jervis, the Perrys, etc. on their own and in their spare time. The vast majority of armybooks are written by non-GW employees under contract. Most of the painted minis come from the personal collections of either the author or friends of the author. At one point WHH had one, one employee that AFAIK did nothing for the other core lines. Otherwise WHH is a completely separate line.

So in short claiming that GW should drop WHH to concentrate on fantasy/40K will IMHO make no difference.

Damon.

Homer S
11-10-2009, 23:39
I think it will be a flip-flop: new Blood Angels codex with a 2 issue White Dwarf Dark Angels update.

Homer

Iverald
11-10-2009, 23:41
@ Homer S: please READ at least Harry's posts. No DA's along the BA's.

Anarnaxe
11-10-2009, 23:51
See, its the actual story Harry referred to that I'm wondering about. Which story could that refer to? Theres nothing to really tie Blood Angels and Dark Angels together other then their name, the fact that their former Legions and their Primarchs were brothers. It could have ended up Hands of Doom (Iron Hands & Imperial Fists) or Animals of Doom (Space Wolves, Salamanders and Raven Guard), Brothers & Rivals could have worked too (Dark Angels & Space Wolves). There never really was a story with Angels of Death, so what could it be? Harry's later comment that Not all of you are wrong.....just the ones who thought it was Angels of Death, has put paid to the belief of a DoA mkII book.

Here are some of the thoughts I came up when I was thinking about those Blood Angel Tales;
First - Blood Angels have always strived to be a true Codex chapter, yet their geneseed and the collective memory of their Primarch's death means they can never be. Thought? The codexes often have snippets of fluff where the Inquisition investigate claims of a "Red Thirst", could it mean a new Inquisition book? A tenuous link but no more tenuous then Dark Angels getting an update.
Second - The Orks and Armageddon, twice the planet has been attacked by the Greenskins, twice the Blood Angels have stood amongst the defenders. Thought? A return of the Campaign packs? For those who don't know, Campaign Packs were sourcebooks which allowed players to fight particuarly famous battles and wars, introducing Characters. Again, a bit of a stretch.
Third - Rivalry. The greatest rivals of the Blood Angels could be considered to be the Black Legion, after all, they too were dedicated sons of the Emperor and then tried to destroy it all. Horus killed Sanguinius before the Emperor could intervene. They could be consider the antithesis of the Blood Angels. Thought? Traitor Legion specific codexes? Or a single Chaos Codex? Unlikely, even though Games Workshop knows the book is useless, its not even 2 years old. For it to be released after the Blood Angels codex, it would have meant they'd started reworking the codex last October, less then a year after its release. Even the 3.5 edition Chaos Codex was released 3 years after the 3rd edition, which would have meant at least 15-18 months would have had to pass after the release of the 3rd edition book before they started work on 3.5.

Those are just a couple of thoughts, their probably completely wrong. To be honest, the Chaos one is probably the most outrageous one, and unlikely to be the case. The Inquistion....meh, no one really knows, the link is a tenuous one at best, so probably unlikely. Even the campaign pack sounds ridiculous now, as the last campaign pack Games Workshop produced was the Storm Of Vengeance pack back in '97 for 2nd Edition (Armageddon & Eye of Terror I would consider to be more varient army lists rather then campaign packs).

Don't mind these thoughts, I'm just the new guy, so feel free to ignore them :P

Bestial Fury
12-10-2009, 00:02
Marines are the big sellers not core. So they focus on marines...but in reality I think I'm probably wrong...as I don't think orks are marines, guard are not marines, upcoming nids are not marines...everyother dex is non marines. What are your thongs getting twisted about?

Why do folks whine so much about marines when there are non marines books being done in light of marines of course being a top seller?

Yes, if it aint the core, then it is the fringe.

Spend less time cry babying and pp'ing in folks' corn flakes and just wait for your book of interest. SW waited a decade.

Drakkisath
12-10-2009, 00:08
@ Homer S: please READ at least Harry's posts. No DA's along the BA's.

Irrational optimism: He only said no to "Angels of Death" codex! :angel:

downundercadet07
12-10-2009, 00:50
Gotta be a plastic Thunderhawk.

Rumored to come out with Planetstrike- but didn't. BAs probably won't have a ton of new plastic, since their range is already filled out. I'm guessing just an upgrade sprue. So to release the Thunderhawk with them would make the most sense of any release date other than during another expansion of Apocalypse.

If there really is one, this would be the time to push it out the door.

Cognitave
12-10-2009, 01:19
Irrational optimism: He only said no to "Angels of Death" codex! :angel:

Could be? Lol.

I personally think Blood Angels should have been done before the Wolves. They need an actual, physical codex. I've seen BA players get a ton of crap for either having a "fake" or no codex.

@Corrode; I agree with you. Dark Eldar are going on 11 years now, and seeing as how a large portion of the items in the book no longer do anything, they need a LOT of work.

It would seem illogical for GW to say "Next on the block is Dark Eldar!" now when the book still needs so much work. Of course they're gonna do another Marine army, it makes sense from a fiscal and gaming view. Although the 'Crons are bleeding more and more with every new codex, both Inquisition factions are at least playable. IIRC, there are some really nasty and competitive WH builds still around...

Purge the Heretic
12-10-2009, 01:33
Nasty? us? no its all tea parties and crumpets in power armor over here.

Sadistikk
12-10-2009, 01:46
fact is Marines sell....

In times like now where markets are crashing/recovering from a crash and people being laid off world economy is in the dumps they can't afford to do dex's/model lines for the "forgotten" lines (i.e. DE, Necrons, .....)

It makes sense for anyone who actually looks at it GW wants to be around for years to come. Wasting time and money both of which they cant do so they can survive the economy being in the craper.

Dont make much sense
"We lost 25%+ of our income because of the crappy world economy, Hey this is the perfect time to do the 3 worst selling armies we have so we can cut our throat even more.....hey while we are at it let redo the orks one more time...."

GW is being smart about it not wasting resources on armies that wont bring in the same cash flow as another marine based release.

Realy there are only 3 more Marine dex's left to do BA, DA, BT after that unless they decide to some other chapter they have never done up to this point. Its pretty much xeno's from there on out.
Make the Cash from Marines to fund the xeno's

downundercadet07
12-10-2009, 02:30
My apologies then, got your post mixed up with someone else's then.

On a plastic Thunderhawk: Possible but unlikely, honestly. Though wasn't there an Apocalypse formation for Blood Angels that involved taking three Thunderhawks and a bunch of Land Raiders that became Fast vehicles?

Yeah, the t-hawks in reloaded were Blood Angel. Coincidence?

HsojVvad
12-10-2009, 02:38
ok here are most of the quotes I could find from when Harry mentioned the frist quote to where he dispelled AoD codex.So what can we surmise from these quotes then?

1st, there will be no AoD codex, 2nd, no Inquisitor or GK.


Blood Angels are only half the story.


Dare I hope for an Angels of Death codex? proven flase


Half the story as in half the codex (the other half, logically, being DA) or simply half the Marine releases next year?

Argh intrigue I can't see how BA would be half a story and anthour SM release being the other half of the story. But then who knows. Of course the Pieman knows


Dark Templars? I believe their codex will be the oldest after BA are released.

Edit: Whoops! Of course I mean, they'd be the oldest Marine codex.

>>
<<

... no offence to Dark Eldar players. I read here on Warseer, Black Templars would be releasing a codex as well. So maybe a BA codex, and a back to back Black Templar codex, or AoD type codex with BA and BT but not called AoD.


I have a hard time believing that it is an Angels of Death... but I sure do wish it was true. They did sort of redo the blood angels at the same time as the DA's last time, so it's not IMPOSSIBLE that it is both... that simply would be... very surprising. GW isn't known for fixing poor codexes, they should tell you to suck it up for five-eight years.

On the other hand Harry didn't say that that was half of the new marines coming out, he said that was Half of the Story. That makes it sound like blood angels are only half of the march release. I can't imagine them doing Black Templars in the same codex as Blood Angels. Dark Angels... yes... I mean... blood and dark aren't THAT different from Codex Marines.

Guess we will see. Facinating rumor. Only the Pieman knows, and maybe Brimstone.


Combine the fact that the Blood Angels already have a 5th ed. list with the fact that they are, in fact, space marines (who also have plenty of models and a codex) and it seems a lot more feasible - between the White Dwarf list and the Space Marine Codex, the work is practically done from a rules standpoint. Space Wolves got two plastic boxes though I would argue that Blood Angels could probably do just fine with a "Wolf Pack" style box, so you're also not talking about too many miniature releases. Two months would be plenty of time.

It seems like not much effort for an even bigger boost to Marine sales. I imagine GW would see it in a similar light. Not shure what to make of this comment, but since it was between the two maybe someone would have a better explanation if Harry ment something with this quote.


I'm surprised as well, thought it's nice to hear. Either we're seeing a pick-up in the Codex release schedule, or GW is putting out its 40K offerings for the year early in preparation for the "Year of Fantasy" that 2010 is supposed to be.

Either way - Harry, you tease you!

Same as above, anyone can make of this?


Harry makes me feel good :)

Angels of Death would make sense, as there aren't many other Marine chapters with existing books to be updated.

A C:AoD release would mean that only the Templars are lacking in updates for the new edition. Certainly we won't be getting every single chapter upgraded within three years of a new edition, right? Hmmm, maybe we are? What you say Pieman? :cool:


wow, very intriguing. as primarily a modeller, im really interested to see what new sprues are in store for us.

and is it just me or is GW releasing loads of new armies? space wolves, skaven, tyranids, beastmen, now these... all in the space of a few months! great stuff for plastic addicts like me comments?


I fear that BA will get the SW treatment and their vampirism will be expounded upon over and over throughout the codex like it's all they do.

Ale and wolves work for SW because they've always been a little humorous and fun. But BA are supposed to be powerful, mysterious and unknown.

I expect soon BA will be a chapter of 250 immortals who only fight to drink blood and spend the rest of their time being artisans and falling in love with teenagers. as above.


a while back they said that wolves BA and BT would be redone...Nothing was said of the dark angels...i know angels of death would make people happy but i would think that BT would be redone as it is a much older codex than DA...

Heres hopping for successor characters for and bits BA (bring back the flesh tearer shoulder pads please...)

***Quote
assault squads will be a troop choice
NooooOOO!OOOOOO!!!! Why? That's just very, very wrong.

You do know assault squads are currently troops right? Maybe BT will be done, or DA will not be done at all? I hope not, I am a DA fan.


Could you explain this a little more :angel:?

Or i think we are going to start speculating about the most odd things, like the return of the Grey Knights or Inquisition :D Proven wrong


Now that's a whole nother story. For above to prove no GN or Inquisition, yet. Anthour story for this year or next?


Harry makes me think of "Angels of Death". proven wrong.


Here's a story
About a guy named Harry
Who was hording rumours on his own
He'd not give the secrets, no never!
The knowledge would be all his alone!

I curse you all for making me think of the bloody Brady Bunch (consequently, "Bloody Brady Bunch" could be the PG version of the Blood Angels). Just had to laugh at this again


You are not all wrong.






Just the ones that assume I meant Angels of Death. :D So no DA.

So between the comment from the first to last post, what do you guys make of these?

PS had to delets smilies wouldn't let me post with too many of them on.

Bestial Fury
12-10-2009, 02:42
fact is Marines sell....

In times like now where markets are crashing/recovering from a crash and people being laid off world economy is in the dumps they can't afford to do dex's/model lines for the "forgotten" lines (i.e. DE, Necrons, .....)

It makes sense for anyone who actually looks at it GW wants to be around for years to come. Wasting time and money both of which they cant do so they can survive the economy being in the craper.

Dont make much sense
"We lost 25%+ of our income because of the crappy world economy, Hey this is the perfect time to do the 3 worst selling armies we have so we can cut our throat even more.....hey while we are at it let redo the orks one more time...."

GW is being smart about it not wasting resources on armies that wont bring in the same cash flow as another marine based release.

Realy there are only 3 more Marine dex's left to do BA, DA, BT after that unless they decide to some other chapter they have never done up to this point. Its pretty much xeno's from there on out.
Make the Cash from Marines to fund the xeno's

QTF. However, some would believe it's a good thing for GW to not take care of business and feed the squeaky wheels. Tanking the hobby for everyone because a few don't get their goodies in the time the want.

Businesses have to make tough decisions. Especially project/product based businesses. You can't take risks (hey let's go forward with an update of DE and take the risk that extra players will jump on the BW to give us the same revenue as SM's).

Absolutely correct, get the cash from what sells, then you can have enough funds to take smart risks and maybe make some profit (or make non SM's happy). Gotta pay your house bill before you pay for that big trip to Malta.

Spectral Dragon
12-10-2009, 03:44
I'm going to assume that "the other half" is either apocolypse releases or a second wave release of some kind as I can't imagine for the life of me releasing two codecis in the same month. It makes no sense from a sellers standpoint.

Putty
12-10-2009, 04:07
the inclusion of blood angels as an offical codex gives GW a reason to release a Spaze Mareen army every year until the edition's codex run is complete and they release a new set of core rules.

how many do we have after the inclusion of BA?

1. Main Codex Astartes
2. Dark Angels
3. Black Templar
4. Space Wolves
5. Blood Angels

One space marine codex a year for 5 years and a new core rulebook after that. makes sense economically.

Its all business guys, just business.

Esinhorn
12-10-2009, 04:19
Well half the story everyone is assuming they are making a split codex.
What if the codex is BA w/ models
but the other half is an UltraMarine upgrade sprue.
GW love thier boys in blue and they do not require any codex or rules just 2-3 sprues
maybe 2010 is the year of the upgrade.

Ominous Anonymous
12-10-2009, 04:28
So, what we know so far:

-Blood Angels do have an upcoming release at some point
-It will NOT be Angels of Death, unfortunately

What is a given but not explicitly confirmed
-Stuff like Storm Shields being brought in line with other books
-GW, moving away from mixed kits will probably produce an all-plastic Baal Predator kit
-Separate kits for Power Armor and Terminator Blood Angels, either to be solely used or combined with other kits from the Space Marine range
-New sculpts for old characters

Unconfirmed rumors from unverified sources:
-New independent characters (seems to be a running theme with the latest books)
-A March/April release date after Tyranids
-Assault Squads will stay as troops and have access to special weapons a la Grey Hunters with squad Sergeants having options in line with Codex: Space Marines
-Blood Rage-themed rules?

Borderline wish-listing
-Plastic Thunderhawk released alongside codex

Sons of Sanguinius
12-10-2009, 05:28
So, what we know so far:

-Blood Angels do have an upcoming release at some point
-It will NOT be Angels of Death, unfortunately

What is a given but not explicitly confirmed
-Stuff like Storm Shields being brought in line with other books
-GW, moving away from mixed kits will probably produce an all-plastic Baal Predator kit
-Separate kits for Power Armor and Terminator Blood Angels, either to be solely used or combined with other kits from the Space Marine range
-New sculpts for old characters

Unconfirmed rumors from unverified sources:
-New independent characters (seems to be a running theme with the latest books)
-A March/April release date after Tyranids
-Assault Squads will stay as troops and have access to special weapons a la Grey Hunters with squad Sergeants having options in line with Codex: Space Marines
-Blood Rage-themed rules?

Borderline wish-listing
-Plastic Thunderhawk released alongside codex

After countless pages of stupidity (typical of Whineseer), it's posts like yours that I skim for. :D Thanks.

Additionally, being a 13 year BA vet, I have to say not being able to BUY a BA codex from GW kinda hurt my feelings. At this point I'd gladly and swiftly pay $50 for a SM sized BA codex. I mean, you know your army has sunk to a new low when the ARMY BUILDER file calles it a non codex source army!

Temprus
12-10-2009, 05:34
-Separate kits for Power Armor and Terminator Blood Angels, either to be solely used or combined with other kits from the Space Marine rangeI doubt we will see a separate BA sprue/box for Terminators (possible but I doubt it) as there were never BA specific ones before the latest SH unlike both DA & SW. More likely a mixed sprue like DA had even if it is just BA TA pads.

Sons of Sanguinius
12-10-2009, 05:37
I doubt we will see a separate BA sprue/box for Terminators (possible but I doubt it) as there were never BA specific ones before the latest SH unlike both DA & SW. More likely a mixed sprue like DA had even if it is just BA TA pads.
I agree. This sounds more likely IMO.

Brimstone
12-10-2009, 06:08
After countless pages of stupidity (typical of Whineseer), it's posts like yours that I skim for. :D Thanks.


Sorry but without much to discuss people will go off topic.

I've removed quite a few posts, just a remindeder this is a thread about BLOOD ANGELS, anything else is off topic and will be treated as such.

The Warseer Inquisition.

Sons of Sanguinius
12-10-2009, 06:17
Dang it, am I in trouble again? :cries:

But yeah, Ominous Anonymous' post was exactly what I was looking for 13 pages in to the main Blood Angels Rumor Thread. :angel:

I just can't wait for the more specific rumors for BA to start showing up a la the saga rumors for SW, etc. I'm just dying to know how different the new dex will be from the PDF.

Gray Hunter
12-10-2009, 07:44
Here's just a thought or two that I had. In this thread, Harry has implied or stated the following:

That Codex: Blood Angels is "only half the story"
That Codex: Angels of Death is not what he means by this
That the Marine/Xenos/Marine/Xenos pattern will proceed "more or less"

I seem to recall a thread in which one of our reliable sources (I think it was either Harry or Brim) said that next year two Xenos codices back to back was not out of the realms of possibility. There was some speculation that this meant Dark Eldar, Necrons or Tau after Tyranids. Obviously now we know that this is not the case, since BA are all but confirmed after Nids.

Thus, I cobble together the following conclusion from these snippets and the Holy Duct Tape of Hope:

Blood Angels will be after Nids, and there will be a concomitant Space Marine release, either Codex: Black Templars or Codex: Dark Angels as a stand-alone book, or a combi book of Blood Angels and another Chapter other than Dark Angels. This release will be followed by two Xenos codices back-to-back, thus preserving the Marine/Xenos/Marine/Xenos pattern "more or less".

Well, Harry? Is this close? How about another cryptic hint to shunt me either towards or away from this train of thought?

Oh, and for the love of Russ, please never, never, never post a comment that makes me imagine you and a stripper pole ever, ever again.

My therapist will send you her bill.

Tiller5
12-10-2009, 08:27
Thus, I cobble together the following conclusion from these snippets and the Holy Duct Tape of Hope:

Blood Angels will be after Nids, and there will be a concomitant Space Marine release, either Codex: Black Templars or Codex: Dark Angels as a stand-alone book, or a combi book of Blood Angels and another Chapter other than Dark Angels. This release will be followed by two Xenos codices back-to-back, thus preserving the Marine/Xenos/Marine/Xenos pattern "more or less".

Well, Harry? Is this close? How about another cryptic hint to shunt me either towards or away from this train of thought?

Oh, and for the love of Russ, please never, never, never post a comment that makes me imagine you and a stripper pole ever, ever again.

My therapist will send you her bill.

Or, the release that closely follows/is released alongside Blood Angels is a Xenos book, thus following the Marine/Xenos/Marin/Xenos pattern. Your suggestion has it at Xeno (Tyranids)/Marine (Blood Angels)/Marine (other chapter) /Xeno, which is different!