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tstreet21
09-10-2009, 18:37
after a couple of small infanty only battles, I have a couple of people interested in putting together a No Armor Value tournament, probably at 1,000 pts. it started as infantry only, but ended up growing to include everything from MC to bikes to cavalry, so we just agreed on no armor.

in this format, I know that some units/armies might receive an advantage that maybe isn't intented in the rules, and that's fine, but are there any armies that might be put at a significant disadvantage because of this?

as we were talking about it, the one that came to mind immediately was IG, but then the IG player said that would just give him a chance to throw in his ogryns and rough riders that normally get bumped for another LRBT so he was cool with it. is there anybody else we should worry about? we are looking at doing either the old victory points scoring or just last man standing, what do you think about this format? thanks.

puppetmaster24
09-10-2009, 18:41
some armys gain an advantage (lash, nids). some armys whole dynamic is changed and they become absolutly useles and unplayable (dark eldar, eldar to a certain extent).

Urath
09-10-2009, 18:42
Dark Eldar and their lack of Raiders means that awfully fragile models are going to be caught in the open.

Egaeus
09-10-2009, 18:56
Dark Eldar and their lack of Raiders means that awfully fragile models are going to be caught in the open.

Tyranids have just as fragile Troops models, aren't innately any faster than Eldar (of either variety), have no transports and no one ever seems to complain about that. Of course they do have Monstrous Creatures that are quite tough and Synapse does make them Fearless.

I don't think any army is going to be inordinately burdened in such an environment (not to say that some aren't a bit better at it than others). What might concern me is those armies that can field Monstrous Creatures, thus prompting players to still want to take a bit of anti-tank in their lists (unless we consider certain weaponry "anti-heavy-infantry" rather than "anti-tank")...that is, just because it's "no armour" doesn't mean there won't be big tough nastiness to deal with, so making a balanced list is still an important factor.

Tedurur
09-10-2009, 19:18
HQ: 155
Avatar = 155

Troops:494
10xWG (Spiritseer) = 378

10xGuardians (Spiritseer+SCannon) = 116

Heavy: 350
2xWraith Lord (SCannon+Scatter) = 240
1x Wraith Lord (Sword+SCannon) = 110

tot 999

A Wraithzilla can do well, any other eldar army is going to be weak...

Urath
09-10-2009, 19:22
Yes, but the Dark Eldar's only viable list depends on Raiders to fly them around. The only, really effective, 'Nid list involves lots of Monstrous Creatures.

Bookwrak
09-10-2009, 19:28
Tyranids have just as fragile Troops models, aren't innately any faster than Eldar (of either variety), have no transports and no one ever seems to complain about that.

Because those 'fragile troops' come in much greater numbers, and have abilities that allow them to not be as hindered by taking losses while crossing the field.

Lord Damocles
09-10-2009, 19:29
Tyranids have just as fragile Troops models, aren't innately any faster than Eldar (of either variety), have no transports and no one ever seems to complain about that. Of course they do have Monstrous Creatures that are quite tough and Synapse does make them Fearless.
Dark Eldar and Tyranids play differently though.

Unlike Tyranids, Drak Eldar aren't intended to rely on a) Resilience and/or b) Zerg rushing stuff.


EDIT: Attack of the Ninjas :p

Threeshades
09-10-2009, 19:30
Tyranids have just as fragile Troops models, aren't innately any faster than Eldar (of either variety), have no transports and no one ever seems to complain about that. Of course they do have Monstrous Creatures that are quite tough and Synapse does make them Fearless.



Those models cost only 5 or 6 points each or return from reserve after being killed, so that's no comparison. Also those models are little more than a distraction from the big guys.

505
09-10-2009, 19:38
well my guard would love it...I run no armor value 90% of the time

The Orange
09-10-2009, 19:55
A Tau army could be at a significant disadvantage here. They have battle suits but your pretty much forcing them to play a gun-line army which usually don't fare well.

AFnord
09-10-2009, 23:11
If I were the tournament organizer I would put a limitation on monsters as well, else those might end up dominating the game, as most people will bring a lot more anti-infantry weapons.

JHZ
09-10-2009, 23:28
It shall be a day of daemon pwnage.

solkan
10-10-2009, 00:03
Prohibiting vehicles and/or monstrous creatures would end up skewing the battle to whichever codex had the best infantry choices.

I have to agree that it would be great for Daemons because they'd only be losing out on a few models. 50 daemons in a 1000 point army doesn't work too badly.

For the Dark Eldar, it might be nice to see splinter cannon spam instead of the usual dark lance spam. :skull: I wonder if scourges and jetbikes might end up being useful in that situation.

In any event, the mission objectives in this type of restricted setting would be really important. Are the armies going to have to cross the board, or can they just camp on their side and shoot long ranged weapons until the game ends?

Marshal Sinclair
10-10-2009, 00:07
Sisters of Battle will be unplayable too. They rely heavily on those Exorcists and Rhinos.

JHZ
10-10-2009, 00:17
I have to agree that it would be great for Daemons because they'd only be losing out on a few models. 50 daemons in a 1000 point army doesn't work too badly.
And they all get Inv. saves, which aren't armour saves. 5++ ain't so bad now, is it, Mr. MEQ?

Vaktathi
10-10-2009, 00:36
If you aren't going to allow vehicles, you shouldn't allow MC's, as these will tend to dominate and the need for the same weapons you'd normally kill tanks with still remains to deal with the MC's.

Other than that, DE, if any players are around for this event, would be at a significant disadvantage as they rely on Raiders for the army to work at all.

Gaargod
10-10-2009, 01:07
Tyranids would be at a huge advantage in that tournament. Not only do nids have problems with vehicles anyways, but their most effective list utilises lots of MCs - the stuff that requires vehicle killing weaponry to realistically damage - which people aren't going to take as much of.

Mind you, if you turned off MCs, the nid players would be more or less screwed anyways.

hawo0313
10-10-2009, 01:23
Yeah the nids and the daemons could pretty much play thier usual army list in this tournament but while it may unbalance some armies it also puts a new perspective on the game I wouldn't mind this.

But snipers will be more useful with all those MC's walking around pathfinders anyone