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Deus Mechanicus
10-10-2009, 16:47
Hey, I play Deathwing and i usually run Belial and a squad of Termies in a Land Raider Crusader. Now i'd imagine that fluffwise he had this Land Raider for a very long time so i planned on getting a Land Raider Mk1 and convert it using Crusader sponsons and pimp it out with Dark Angels symbols from the upgrade kit.

Heres my dilemma. Im doing this for the fluff reason, The Master of the Deathwing rides in the Chariot of his Office right. Also an aesthetically reason: I want Belial's Land Raider to stand out.

On the other hand i see it as a rules grey zone in a way. The Land Raider Mk1 is indeed a GW model.... but there is no such thing as a Land Raider Mk1 Crusader so im ending up with.... what?

Here is the gist of the thread: Does using the Mk1 raider as basis for a Crusader confere any advantages from a modelling viewpoint? The shape of the mk1 and mk2 is fairly different.

Thanks!

HerrDusty
10-10-2009, 16:54
I can't see how it would give you an advantage, isn't the original GW Land Raider model a lot taller than the current one? in which case, you'd be making it easier to see and shoot at, but other than that, there aren't any glaring differences that would give it an advantage.

I'd be happy to let you use it in a game :)

Urath
10-10-2009, 17:02
I'd love to see it and, I've even planned on using the MK.1 for all my Land Raiders. However, I don't know where to get them.

Vesica
10-10-2009, 17:08
Urath check google =D

http://images.google.com/images?q=mk1%20land%20raider&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

OP.

Hmm dont think the actually model would have different rules, but been the ride of the deathwing leader i would either tweak the normal LR rules, or make up your own to represent its passenger.

self biased
10-10-2009, 17:11
don't do it. they're terrible, goofy-looking models.

Urath
10-10-2009, 17:14
Urath check google =D

http://images.google.com/images?q=mk1%20land%20raider&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

I know what they look like, just not where to buy them. I know of the "pre-Heresy Land Raider" from Forge World, but it's a little beyond me in terms of price atm.

Vesica
10-10-2009, 17:16
Ahh i misread you post.

Have you checked ebay etc?

Deus Mechanicus
10-10-2009, 17:16
OP.

Hmm dont think the actually model would have different rules, but been the ride of the deathwing leader i would either tweak the normal LR rules, or make up your own to represent its passenger.

Well no, i see now that the title is a little misleading. It would for all intents and purposes be a Land Raider Crusader, the question is if it would give any modelling rules advantage.

Urath
10-10-2009, 17:22
Ahh i misread you post.

Have you checked ebay etc?

It's cool :). Aye, I have; nothing there, I'll probably have to wait for the funds to go all "pre-heresy" on forge world.

Sorry for thread jacking.

mightymconeshot
10-10-2009, 17:57
it would next to imposiible to convert if you are basing it of the forgeworld version which has almost slit like sponsons.
either way i would have no problem with it.

JHZ
10-10-2009, 17:58
It's an official model, so just because it's OOP should not be a problem. You won't have people going all bananas if someone uses old daemon models or something.

I know a few people who use old Rhino's, and now one so far has any problems with this.


don't do it. they're terrible, goofy-looking models.
Shush you! We shall not suffer your heresies.

starlight
10-10-2009, 17:59
Aside from thinking they are butt-ugly (but then I'm the gy who doesn't like Beakie Marines, so what does that say?:p), I wouldn't have an issue playing against them. :)

Bloodknight
10-10-2009, 18:31
I wouldn't say that you get an advantage from using the old model. It's taller and wider than the current one, but shorter; if anything you'd be at a slight disadvantage because you could not get much use out of a well-known exploit: deploying it laterally at the edge of your deployment zone, then turning it when moving it the first time which gets you a bit more than an inch with the current model (also often used by DE players who get a bit more out of rotating a Raider).

If you're rally interested in a size comparison I can get a few photos tomorrow (I use an old one and a new one in my Deathguard army).

massey
10-10-2009, 18:58
Aside from thinking they are butt-ugly (but then I'm the gy who doesn't like Beakie Marines, so what does that say?:p), I wouldn't have an issue playing against them. :)

It means you have taste and style. :) Beakie marines are ugly.

I don't think using an older model is trying to gain unfair advantage. Yes, on occasion there will be a situation where the silhouette of the old LR is different from the new one. But there's no way to know when that situation will arise when you build your army.

Even if you could gain an advantage, there's nothing in the rules preventing you from doing that.

AndrewGPaul
10-10-2009, 19:02
Someone scratch-built a mark 1 Land Raider out of modern Land Raider parts:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=300001a&section=community&aId=4700001a

If you manage to get an original one, I highly recommend sawing off the track links along the bottom, so it sits flat on the ground (as you can sort of see in this pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v362/Damned1/IMG_8655.jpg

Makes it look properly heavy, and nor riding around on its "tip-toes".

_Si_
10-10-2009, 19:21
I went a bit further on my work in progress. Removed the tracks, then stetched it, then made some custom sponsons.

LRI project blog (http://gtazz.com/kataan/index.php?mod=2&blog=22)

Still needs plenty of work, but a pretty decent save from a rather knackered ebay win.

Nakor
10-10-2009, 20:58
but then I'm the gy who doesn't like Beakie Marines

oh my god i think i just had a heart attack!

Clang
10-10-2009, 21:36
I don't have a problem with it fluffwise - it simply represents a Mk1 which has been retrofitted with the Crusader weapons or was an ancient prototype of the Crusader.

Modellingwise it's a bit harder, presuming you'll actually be using a Mk1 kit (if you can even find one - you'll probably have to settle for an already assembled one):
- the Mk1 is considerably shorter (but height and width are a reasonable match). So fitting both doors and side sponsons on the sides will be difficult. You'll probably need to pretty much remove all the existing side detail and add new side armour
- the main hull isn't a great match, with no front door and non-twin-linked heavy bolters. So you'll probably need to add new hull armour (with doors and weapon mounts etc) too.
- the Mk 1 really is a very crude and primitive kit by modern standards, so expect to spend a lot of time super-detailing to get a good result

Personally, I'd use the current Crusader kit, and convert the sponsons to look more like the ForgeWorld Mk1 conversion kit - if it's a retrofit/prototype then that's a perfect excuse for the sponsons to look non-standard.

impfist
10-10-2009, 21:37
It's cool :). Aye, I have; nothing there, I'll probably have to wait for the funds to go all "pre-heresy" on forge world.

Sorry for thread jacking.

I just picked one up from ebay for 15, there were a few on there a couple of weeks back, just keep looking.

I do like the newer versions, just wanted to have one so I could write some cool fluff around it, that and cause I owned a few in my rogue trader days. The lascannons, are a bit naff, will have to replace them though.

...oh and on topic, I'd not even considered a rules problem, but I'm not using mine as a crusader. Still, can't see anyone minding you using it.

Urath
10-10-2009, 22:43
I just picked one up from ebay for 15, there were a few on there a couple of weeks back, just keep looking.

I do like the newer versions, just wanted to have one so I could write some cool fluff around it, that and cause I owned a few in my rogue trader days. The lascannons, are a bit naff, will have to replace them though.

...oh and on topic, I'd not even considered a rules problem, but I'm not using mine as a crusader. Still, can't see anyone minding you using it.

http://toys.shop.ebay.co.uk/Wargames-Role-Playing-/16486/i.html?_nkw=land+raider&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

Nothing yet, I'm afraid. Good find on that old Land Raider though.

impfist
12-10-2009, 21:37
http://toys.shop.ebay.co.uk/Wargames-Role-Playing-/16486/i.html?_nkw=land+raider&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

Nothing yet, I'm afraid. Good find on that old Land Raider though.



How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Warhammer-40k-Land-Raider-Old-Style_W0QQitemZ150379959618QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_T oys_Wargames_RL?hash=item2303581542&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_1182

MajorWesJanson
12-10-2009, 22:00
The FW pre-heresy Land Raider looks awesome, but has issues with scale as the mold seems to have shrunk somewhat. Quite a bit of plasticard work to get it to work properly. That and the sponsons will not really work with hurricane bolters.

Deus Mechanicus
13-10-2009, 06:48
The FW pre-heresy Land Raider looks awesome, but has issues with scale as the mold seems to have shrunk somewhat. Quite a bit of plasticard work to get it to work properly. That and the sponsons will not really work with hurricane bolters.

Good thing its not the FW pre-heresy Land Raider i plan to convert then ;)

jeffersonian000
13-10-2009, 09:12
I've worked out a conversion for turning a MkII Rhino into the MkI Land Raider. If all goes well, I'll have some picture to post in a few weeks.

As to rules for the original MkI Land Raider (revised for 5th):

BS4, AV: Front 14/Side 14/Rear 14, Access points: 2 (one on each side), Fire Points: 1 (top hatch, up to 2 models may fire from the top hatch), Weapons/gear: 2 pintle-mounted Heavy Bolters (1 front, 1 rear), 2 twin-linked Lascannons (sponsons), Smoke Launchers, Capacity: 10 models or 5 Terminators, speciel rules: Power of the Machine Spirit.

SJ

AndrewGPaul
13-10-2009, 10:52
I'd be tempted to drop the rear armour to 13, since the vehicle's engine and driveshaft are more exposed than on the current model.