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actiondan
10-10-2009, 16:03
Having read all of the HH series and all the canon background I'm a little stumped as to what the "most powerful psyker ever" powers are?

I'm aware that he has the ability to forecast the future, although this gets muddled around the time of the Heresy, but premonition does not mean to me that he is all that powerful.

If he is so powerful why did Horus save his life from an Ork warlord? Could he not just "mindwar" the Ork instead or set him on fire?

The only examples I have found of the Emperor using psychic powers is his premonition which as stated let him down in a BIG way, if there are examples of him using other powers please let me know.
BTW I understand that he lights the astronomican but I thought that he would be more battle focused like a Librarian rather than having passive powers.

Urath
10-10-2009, 16:15
Haven't you heard of the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath?

Vladimir Pugh
10-10-2009, 16:22
If he is so powerful why did Horus save his life from an Ork warlord? Could he not just "mindwar" the Ork instead or set him on fire?

I always imagined he did that so that he and Horus might share a closer bond, seeing as how he saved Horus' life on another occasion.

canucklhead
10-10-2009, 16:34
I tend to think of the big E like muad'dib from Dune. Able to see the future, in fact able to see all possible futures, at least as they pertain to him. The actions he takes are unfathomable to those around him, as only he really knew what was to come of it. Perhaps he foresaw the heresy, and perhaps the alternatives were worse.

Icarus
10-10-2009, 18:12
Well lets see...

1. He completely obliterated Horus's war presence. Note, not a mind war, he completely removed Horus from the warp, burnt away to nothing. No other psyker has done anything like that.

2. He powered the Astronmicon, a feat later achieved by plugging in 10,000 psykers to do the same job, and they need replacing regularly.

3. Kept Hordes of Daemons from breaking through the Webway, and kept a Webway portal open more or less using only his mind.

4. The account is sketchy, but may have crippled a C'tan.

So not too bad really! :cool:

Xisor
10-10-2009, 20:50
The Astronomicon.

The Imperial Webway.

Controlling and using the various Thrones (well, we know the Emperor was aware of two of the Thrones, the eponymous Golden Throne on Terra and the Silver Throne on <wherever Faith and Fire is set>).

Finding the Primarchs via what appears to be 'dousing'.

Soul-binding astropaths.

Preventing the warp bursting through the broken webway.

Also there's a story about him clobbering a drowsy C'tan.

The Cabal considered him the only human worthy of joining their council, the only one worthy of the 'Old Kind'.

A few bits and pieces really. They're all a bit bigger than the petty magick and cheap tricks of folks who burst into flames, do a bit of cold reading slightly better than average and shoot lightning from their ****, though I bet he could do those to.

Vesica
10-10-2009, 23:48
I think the complete destruction of Horus in every aspect shows how strong he is.

The other examples also show his strength, as for the ork dont forget that the more orks present the stronger the 'waaaagh' so it could be a case of his powers been weakened, and we dont know if the ork caught him off guard or what actually happened.

DavidW86
11-10-2009, 02:20
The way the books have been going...they lead me more and more to believe that the Emperor is quite omnipotent, and very purposely lets everything, including the Heresy happen the exact way it does because he sees it as the narrow path humanity needs to tread to not be wiped out by the careless whims of an uncaring universe

DarkMatter2
11-10-2009, 03:50
I think it is pretty clear he is like Superman in the Silver Age - power adequate to do exactly what he needs to for the plot.

Firaxin
11-10-2009, 06:31
I just did a post on this two weeks ago, in the thread about quantifying psychic powers/in relation to the Assignment (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment).

Determining the Emperor's explicit power level is difficult, because not only are we unsure of the extent of his powers, but the evidence we do have is unquantifiable, off the charts.

--Biomancy? Well he was born in a normal, mortal, human body in 8,000 BC. But he's become effectively immortal (still alive 48,000 years later...), could radically change his appearance at will, and increase his physical strength and reaction time to such an extent that he could go toe-to-toe with the Primarchs. All through this one discipline. Beta-level would theoretically grant the immortality, tack on the appearance altering and the speed/strength enhancements and he's at least Alpha, probably somewhere above that.

--Divination? Well, he predicted that Mankind is going to evolve into a fully psychic race more powerful than the Eldar and was working towards easing that process for a long time before the Heresy... and this event hasn't even happened yet, or been predicted by the Eldar, as far as I know. He also entombed the Void Dragon on Mars because he was able to predict that it would spawn the Cult of the Omnissiah and thus enable him to assume control of the Mechanicus thousands of years before in advance. I would argue that the only reason he didn't forsee the Heresy was that the 4 chaos gods were working together to hide it from him (just as Eldrad couldn't tell that Fulgrim was virtually possessed when they were standing right in front of each other, because Slaanesh was hiding it). So that's Beta at least.

--Pyromancy? It was an extreme version of the Holocaust power that the Emperor used to obliterate Horus's Chaos god-backed soul forever. He overcame the combined might of 4 gods with this. 'nuff said. Let's not even speculate on the Maelstrom.

--Telekinetics? Well, he could repair titans with the touch of a finger and levitate himself. He also froze everyone present (not time) when Horus traveled back in time to witness the Primarchs being swept away into the warp. So, Gamma-Beta level just from what we've seen.

--Telepathy? The Astronomicon. Which he was able to project (control and direct, which shows a considerable level of skill, while a portion of the raw power would be from the 10,000 psykers sacrificed each day) even while out fighting in the Crusade (ie, he didn't have to be sitting on the Throne). 'nuff said.

Then you have powers that don't even fit into the normal disciplines. Like creating Saints, or causing Angels to appear, all on the opposite side of the galaxy.

Icarus
12-10-2009, 03:29
Nice summary Firaxin.

Also, I think we're forgetting perhaps his biggest psychic feat: the fact that he maintains a powerful warp presence even whilst being kept perpetually at the point of death.

Raellos
13-10-2009, 09:55
--Telekinetics? Well, he could repair titans with the touch of a finger and levitate himself. He also froze everyone present (not time) when Horus traveled back in time to witness the Primarchs being swept away into the warp. So, Gamma-Beta level just from what we've seen.


Wow. That just talked me out of reading the HH books.

Imperialis_Dominatus
13-10-2009, 11:34
When Horus 'traveled back in time,' it's possible that it was all just a dream in context. Just so that doesn't completely dissuade you.

grissom2006
13-10-2009, 12:17
It could also be what the Chaos Powers wished they'd seen happen. Or A twisting of the truth on the part of Chaos. As the Original story is the Emperor and his Custodes enter the lab to find the Primarch Capsules gone (this part hasn't been taken out, just not written about since).

Chaos doesn't tell lies it does however twist the truth to get what it wants.

Karhedron
13-10-2009, 14:09
Perhaps he foresaw the heresy, and perhaps the alternatives were worse.

I am pretty sure the Emperor did not forsee the Heresy. The 4 Chaos gods worked together to blind him. The Bill King story way back in WD136 has the Emperor in his throne room during the siege of Terra wondering why he has not been able to forsee this. Apparently he was always aware of a blind spot in his forsight but never imagined it would be something so terrible.

I think the idea was used in one of the novels about an Eldar Farseer as well (Shadowpoint?). The idea is that there are certain points prescient being cannot see past because their own actions make the outcomes uncertain.

Always in motion, the future!

ArtificerArmour
13-10-2009, 14:23
I think the idea was used in one of the novels about an Eldar Farseer as well (Shadowpoint?). The idea is that there are certain points prescient being cannot see past because their own actions make the outcomes uncertain.

Always in motion, the future!

Fateweaver, however, can see the future and the past, just is unable to focus on the here and now. That is why he is unable to prevent himself coming to immediate harm.

And don't they say Farseer's are able to view one of a million strands of possible futures?

I believe the best point has been made. The Emperor is just powerful enough to accomplish certain plot requirements.

pookie
13-10-2009, 14:41
If he is so powerful why did Horus save his life from an Ork warlord? Could he not just "mindwar" the Ork instead or set him on fire?


if you re read that bit of fluff you will realise it says that the Ork was STRUGGLING to choke the life from the Emp, it never says that he was doing this easily, and as pointed out one theory is that the Emp was allowing Horus his moment of glory.

I cant post what he has done better than what people have done before me so i wont add anything else.

**edit**

This Shadow Point thing, id like to think thats when the individual dies, Hence why they cannot see any further.

If you could see 6 months into the future and it all looked rosey and well, but 1 month after that there was nothing, surely youd be a bit worried that something may have happened to you?

revelinsin
13-10-2009, 22:08
I was always under the impression that he Emperor was always looking down the long path.
How is human evolution encouraged if he simply "mind wars" everything that stands against him?
Simply put, it doesn't,
if human history has show us anything, it shows us that humans, if given the chance, become lazy, selfish, and decadent. (Think the Eldar before the fall)
If he made it easy (i.e. doing everything himself), human development stops, the latent psychic abilities in all people remain dormant, and Chaos continues to grow as the slow cancer that it is.
By taking it the hard way, he encouraged humanity to fight on, improve themselves and improve the species.
As so often in BL writings, "Humanity must not fail."

Because the story goes on, in thinking of the Dune reference by canucklhead, the safe way leads to stagnation and failure. I think that even the Emperor admitted (to himself, if no one else) that he couldn't be everywhere at once, otherwise who needs SM Legions, IG, Titans, and even a Fleet.
By fashioning the human race into a massive war machine, he ensured that his species (imo the only thing he truly cared about) could fight on without him.
Sure life might suck, trillions would die, and the average standard of living would be worse than the Dark Ages, but still Chaos is fought, the Alien is still denied, and the Mutant is still largely supressed.
Its about survival, not about happy endings.:evilgrin:

Or maybe sometimes he just needed to take a powder and read the paper while some real work was getting done.....