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DavidW86
11-10-2009, 04:19
Hi everyone, I've watched the Warseer forums for a long time and one thing I noticed is that the Tau are mocked as the anime army. I know there's certrainly a mix of gundam/macross aesthetic in their battlesuits (the old ones) that's 100% true, but what I don't get is why nobody seems to see the connection with Star Wars Ep. 1. I mean, most of the Tau aesthetic is straight ripped off from the trade federation in Episode one, and then more so in Tau Empire with Ep.2's Genosi. Not to mention the whole galactic senate peace stuff going on, the droids, and their main color scheme being the same as the droid army's paint job. Then there's how the Tau are blue repaints of the trade federation guys with a slit added down the center of the face.

Granted, Ep. 1 is a joke, so I suppose the Tau will always be seen with ire by the many veterans out there.

Discuss?

Arakanis
11-10-2009, 04:50
The Tau players were hoping no one would notice. You've just doomed them all. What have you done?


Now that I think about it. The pit droids look like Drones when they're folded up.

DavidW86
11-10-2009, 05:42
I just figure it'll become more apparent as time goes on, especially as their newer battle-suits are abandoning the anime aesthetic more and more.

The pit droids were the first thing my friends and I thought of too when we saw the drones.

Clone-Trooper
11-10-2009, 05:48
This calls for a new bought , SW converted army ...

Wolfblade670
11-10-2009, 06:30
There is a character in one of the new Clone Wars thingies coming out that looks just like a Tau. I honestly was a bit shocked when I saw it, I almost called ripoff...

Gutlord Grom
11-10-2009, 06:32
Well ,technically, the prequel trilogy rips off the original Star Wars movies, so really who cares? :)

That said, sci-fi always has had a history of about mixing and matching images, styles, speech (frak is ubiquitous as the standard sci-fi curse), and plot points. It's a collective process that has its origins as far back as Wells, and even farther back when you consider ,say, Flatland. The idea behind laser weapon and how they work can be found more or less rooted in War of the Worlds.

Corbulo
11-10-2009, 06:42
the vespids look alot like the Genosi guys from Ep.2

Gutlord Grom
11-10-2009, 06:44
the vespids look alot like the Genosi guys from Ep.2
If you mean by the fact they have wings and are insects, yes. I'm not quite sure I see the comparison when you add in the Tau made armor, fusion gun things, and the deadly looking claws they have.

Corbulo
11-10-2009, 06:45
yea thats what i do mean

Gutlord Grom
11-10-2009, 06:47
yea thats what i do mean Oh, then clearly George Lucas was ripping off mayflies when he created the Genosian people. Curse him.

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-10-2009, 07:02
Yeah, I noticed it too but 'weeaboo' is easier for people to get and/or laugh at than 'lol copied Episode I.'


Granted, Ep. 1 is a joke

It's a funnier one than Episodes II and III. At least Episode I didn't make anyone who cared cry about the ruined legacy.

Gutlord Grom
11-10-2009, 07:10
It's a funnier one than Episodes II and III. At least Episode I didn't make anyone who cared cry about the ruined legacy.

Midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, and Jar Jar Binks.

Shinzui
11-10-2009, 07:13
The Tau aesthetic is nothing like the trade federation. They do share some superficial similarities but that's about it.

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-10-2009, 07:32
Midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, and Jar Jar Binks.

Hayden Christiansen's... "acting" as Anakin. BAM!

DavidW86
11-10-2009, 07:32
Midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, and Jar Jar Binks.

new Tau codex should have jar jar binks as a lone wolf type unit

Lothlanathorian
11-10-2009, 07:50
new Tau codex should have jar jar binks as a lone wolf type unit

Just use the Space Wolves Codex to represent your Tau with a counts-as list, no one will mind, I swear.

kazkal
11-10-2009, 07:54
Gone from Anime nerd to starwars nerd for liking tau >_> Only reason I got in to Tau was I loved how Fire Warriors looked and battle suits reminded me of Heavy Gear...

Corpse
11-10-2009, 10:37
Anime references, Starwars references, some minor Star Trek references(remember the blue baldies? I forget which series I saw them in). The movie predator references for the kroot, and a few other places noted by other people I saw somewhere but cant remember.

Instead of taking local history like the older races of 40k, the Tau suffer from modern references for the fluff and look.

So what? They're here. Daemons are a newer army, why don't they get some fingers pointed at them for having steriotypical daemon looks?

I thought after what...? 7+ years people would be done with this by now.

Cuchulain84
11-10-2009, 10:38
Kroot remind me of Oddworld.

Marshal Sinclair
11-10-2009, 10:43
So what? They're here. Daemons are a newer army, why don't they get some fingers pointed at them for having steriotypical daemon looks?

Daemons aren't a new army. You've been able to fight armies of Daemons in one form or another for the best part of 20 years.

Kirill
11-10-2009, 11:21
new Tau codex should have jar jar binks as a lone wolf type unit

Except, when he dies, you win the game..
Scratch that.
Everyone wins.

More on topic, i once saw a picture of a large AAT from star wars partially converted to have a railgun instead of cannon.

Oh and here it is..
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xhwcKYJm78I/SdJHGaehLxI/AAAAAAAAACg/VqsThbwfGsE/s400/superHeavyWIP.jpeg

Other people have noticed.

Bregalad
11-10-2009, 11:52
Actually I have 3 Micromachine AAT tanks in about the right scale as future Tau tanks, one ATT tank in big scale for future Apocalyse conversions, two big MTT tanks as Kroot mobile homes ;), 4 small and one large sand barge as Kroot transports (in a Dark Eldar count as list), Genosi as Vespids, Drone Warriors as possible Fire Warrior stand-ins, Amidala's ship as Ethereal yacht and am still screening Star Wars merchandise for more (still waiting for Tatooine buildings in the right scale!!) :)

LordLucan
11-10-2009, 12:56
Anime references, Starwars references, some minor Star Trek references(remember the blue baldies? I forget which series I saw them in). The movie predator references for the kroot, and a few other places noted by other people I saw somewhere but cant remember.

Instead of taking local history like the older races of 40k, the Tau suffer from modern references for the fluff and look.

So what? They're here. Daemons are a newer army, why don't they get some fingers pointed at them for having steriotypical daemon looks?

I thought after what...? 7+ years people would be done with this by now.

I agree completely. Sci-fi always references and uses bits from other franchises all the time. The way those references are re-combined is what makes something original.

40K has references to all sorts of other settings too. Tau are not the only race which has 'borrowed' aesthetics. The Imperium has plenty of things which look like the original trilogy's stuff (Sentinels being the most obvious imo). Hell, Judge Dredd is one of the most blatant sources of inspiration for 40K. The Arbites are essentially the judges (even with the same name for their higher-ups, and the Arbites even have 'Dredd' class helms).

Originality isn't about having unique images of everything, because everything's already been done (TVtropes is a good indicator of this). Originality is about taking all these elements, and making them into something which, while recognisable, is subtly unlike everything else.

Corpse
11-10-2009, 13:08
Originality is bland and tasteless because nobody is used to it.

When people see something new and creative, unless its presented with a lot of heart, its shunned aside instead.

I could name the many sad tales of early "great ideas gone to waste" concepts that were re-used years later and called original. But, I would just be venting.

LordLucan
11-10-2009, 13:12
Originality is bland and tasteless because nobody is used to it.

When people see something new and creative, unless its presented with a lot of heart, its shunned aside instead.



'new and creative' =/= original (in the sense of 'nobody has EVER done anything like this before ever)

JHZ
11-10-2009, 13:24
Yeah, I noticed it too but 'weeaboo' is easier for people to get and/or laugh at than 'lol copied Episode I.'
Probably because nobody likes Episode 1, but some godless blackguards might still find 'weeaboo' non-offencive. God only knows why.


It's a funnier one than Episodes II and III. At least Episode I didn't make anyone who cared cry about the ruined legacy.
Somewhat related, mandatory humor injection:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/trekkies_bash_new_star_trek_film

Bregalad
11-10-2009, 13:42
I like Episode 1 and 2 and Clone Wars for its design. Don't tell me that episode 4 had a good story and/or remarkable acting! It was all about style and effects.

Cuchulain84
11-10-2009, 13:57
I like Episode 1 and 2 and Clone Wars for its design. Don't tell me that episode 4 had a good story and/or remarkable acting! It was all about style and effects.

Episode 4 has a great story!

DDogwood
11-10-2009, 14:06
It's a good thing someone pointed this out, because it's the VERY FIRST TIME EVAR that 40k has taken inspiration from a sci fi movie.

JHZ
11-10-2009, 14:53
What do you mean Episode 4 didn't have a great story? It had everything in it! Old wizard, magical sword, lvl. 1 peon as the hero, black knight, captured princess to be saved from the fortress of the black knight, a bar scene... Everything!

massey
11-10-2009, 15:07
At least Episode I didn't make anyone who cared cry about the ruined legacy.

Says you. It was the worst of the lot.

nagash66
11-10-2009, 15:27
Says you. It was the worst of the lot.

Agreed, episode III at least gives the pleasure of watching the whole trilogy end. AND Hayden Christiansen's gets his ass handed to him.

Col. Tartleton
11-10-2009, 16:42
I can't honestly say any of the movies were worse than any other. It's space opera. Its a generic plot with overdone faux drama and awesome effects to distract you. Every movie used the best effects available at the time. So lets not say the new ones sucked and were just eye candy and the old ones had to rely on the plot, because that's not true.

On point, Tau are definitely based on starwars they clearly based on star wars evil villains, which makes them the 40k paladins... just like space marines. Marneus Calgar for example is darth... that's how different 40k and SWs are. (Abaddon takes the role of Darth and gets his deathstar, but Calgar is just as much a interpretation, perhaps of an "objectively not so evil" Vader.

The Tau are partially based on the neimoydians, the vespids the genosians, and the kroot do resemble gungans. Not heavily, but the similarities are there. The Tau are blue skinned featureless aliens with red eyes, a powerful space born military, a fear of close combat, (remember how ******* scared they are off the Jedi? As soon as the Jedi arrive Rune Haako announces that they're all dead or something to that effect) and a preferance for droid warriors, hover tanks, and most damningly they both seem to have that korean accent...

But they also have frikking battle suits, a blood thirsty caste of hyper indoctrinated warriors with some of the best gear in the galaxy and tons and tons of railguns... yummy.

jams86
11-10-2009, 16:51
railgun's FTW!

Threeshades
11-10-2009, 17:02
I've got one word for you: Duros (http://www.starwarslarp.com/races/duros.jpg).

nagash66
11-10-2009, 17:11
Marneus Calgar for example is darth... that's how different 40k and SWs are. (Abaddon takes the role of Darth and gets his deathstar, but Calgar is just as much a interpretation, perhaps of an "objectively not so evil" Vader.





Ok thats just a insult to Vader man, i mean comparing him to papa smurf is one things that has marit, but for gods sake leave Vader alone!!

The Orange
11-10-2009, 17:20
I have to say I think it's a pretty thin similarity between the Tau and the trade federation. I mean their greedy bankers that leave all the fighting to their robots. The Tau on the other hand are a philosophically driven race with a dedicated warrior caste who use robots to support them (but they still do the bulk of the fighting). The Tau only really resemble the Bankers because they both have no nose and are bald, even though the Tau actually do have some hair. And their armies are only aesthetically similar because their round/smooth/spherical.

Yea and the movies were a bit of a let down, but at least I have my Dark Horse comics and the Clone Wars shorts by Cartoon Network (those kick the crap out of the movies).

Bregalad
11-10-2009, 18:28
On point, Tau are definitely based on starwars.
Not only Tau ;)

Cuchulain84
11-10-2009, 19:13
Not only Tau ;)

Definately. I'd say Space Marine's helms are more based on Vader himself though.

Victomorga
11-10-2009, 21:02
I've never understood why people refer to the tau as being manga-styled with such venom. who cares? they brought a new aesthetic style to the 40k universe. unoriginal maybe, but last time I checked laser guns, powered body armor, orks and elves weren't fresh concepts either.

aside from a few superficial similarities I really don't see the starwars connection, though

Cuchulain84
11-10-2009, 21:06
I've never understood why people refer to the tau as being manga-styled with such venom. who cares? they brought a new aesthetic style to the 40k universe. unoriginal maybe, but last time I checked laser guns, powered body armor, orks and elves weren't fresh concepts either.

aside from a few superficial similarities I really don't see the starwars connection, though

I don't think anybody cares per se. It's just an observation.

Corpse
11-10-2009, 22:09
What do you mean Episode 4 didn't have a great story? It had everything in it! Old wizard, magical sword, lvl. 1 peon as the hero, black knight, captured princess to be saved from the fortress of the black knight, a bar scene... Everything!

By the chaos gods, your turning me to the harlequins god with this one.
A good laugh you gave me.

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-10-2009, 23:30
Says you. It was the worst of the lot.

Bah. At some point it's not worth arguing. We're basically comparing piles of poop here and saying one is better or worse than the other.

Arakanis
11-10-2009, 23:34
What do you mean Episode 4 didn't have a great story? It had everything in it! Old wizard, magical sword, lvl. 1 peon as the hero, black knight, captured princess to be saved from the fortress of the black knight, a bar scene... Everything!

You make a good point. It's a story as old as spoken language. The hero of a thousand faces and all that.

billytheid
12-10-2009, 00:16
Did anyone notice that the Daemons army is like, a total ripoff of the Bible!?!

BobtheInquisitor
12-10-2009, 00:22
Nice try, but I suggest you try reading the bible before you claim that. Besides the Nephilim (giants/fallen angels) and the trippy creatures in revelations (locusts with human heads or something), the only demon explicitly named as such in the bible is Legion, and he got taken out like a punk. Most of the demonic imagery we're used to became incorporated into Christianity much later than when the Bible was written.

Seriously, though, I'd love to see angels with four wings, four faces and a halo of eyes with rays shining out of their heads and ever-turning swords of fire.

JHZ
12-10-2009, 01:28
Nice try, but I suggest you try reading the bible before you claim that. Besides the Nephilim (giants/fallen angels) and the trippy creatures in revelations (locusts with human heads or something), the only demon explicitly named as such in the bible is Legion, and he got taken out like a punk. Most of the demonic imagery we're used to became incorporated into Christianity much later than when the Bible was written.
Wasn't Legion more like a nickname or something for the man, as he was possessed by many evil spirits?

And he (Jesus) asked him (the man), "What is thy name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion: for we are many."
-Mark 5:9

"And Jesus asked him, saying, "What is thy name?" And he said, "Legion": because many devils were entered into him."
-Luke 8:30


The Nephilim are, by what I've read, the children of fallen angels and human women.

"Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."
-Genesis 6:1-4

By some theory, which I've come across, Goliath was in fact a Nephilim.


Seriously, though, I'd love to see angels with four wings, four faces and a halo of eyes with rays shining out of their heads and ever-turning swords of fire.
I myself would be interested on seeing the Ezekiel's Wheel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel%27s_Wheel). Well, at least another version than this (http://www.renegadewiki.com/images/e/ea/TD_Stealth_Tank.JPG).

canucklhead
12-10-2009, 03:43
Kroot remind me of Oddworld.

Hey Abe...Hey look, it's Abe, and he just ate some guy:)

Col. Tartleton
12-10-2009, 05:28
Wasn't Legion more like a nickname or something for the man, as he was possessed by many evil spirits?

And he (Jesus) asked him (the man), "What is thy name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion: for we are many."
-Mark 5:9

"And Jesus asked him, saying, "What is thy name?" And he said, "Legion": because many devils were entered into him."
-Luke 8:30


The Nephilim are, by what I've read, the children of fallen angels and human women.

"Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."
-Genesis 6:1-4

By some theory, which I've come across, Goliath was in fact a Nephilim.


I myself would be interested on seeing the Ezekiel's Wheel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel%27s_Wheel). Well, at least another version than this (http://www.renegadewiki.com/images/e/ea/TD_Stealth_Tank.JPG).

While we're semi off topic, I'm pretty sure Goliath is supposed to be a Greek "hero" like Ajax or Hercules. The Phillistines came from the Greek islands. If this is the case, he would be considered by the Jews a Nephilim, as they are the same thing. Angels are beings lesser than God but greater than man who serve him, thus we can presume that they'd view the pagan greeks as being of similar nature. Jehovah is technically the Greek God Kronus (The Latin Saturn) all the gods are his offspring, thus the sons of god and the daughters of men would be speaking of Zeus and Poseidon's many children with mortals.

Oh and Tau Firewarriors remind me of Clone Troopers...

Thoume
12-10-2009, 10:14
Definately. I'd say Space Marine's helms are more based on Vader himself though.
I keep thinking the Dawn of War tactical marines are voiced by James Earl Jones, even though they're not... :p

Tau architecture does have a Mos Eisley vibe to it, being mostly flat surfaces and domes and randomly placed antennae...

Cuchulain84
12-10-2009, 10:40
I think it'd be cool to start a thread with a list of all the armies and then add the possible or definite influences for each of their designs and background.

Commisar
12-10-2009, 14:51
Hnng, I was at the Games Day (UK) The year Tau came out as a new army, and I remember queueing in the side wing place were you got to file past the studio guys and ask maybe one question (they dont do Games Days like that any more :p) and the Guy in front of me asks the design studio guy if the Tau were based on the Trade Federation robots from episode one, and the Studio guy Pulls a face and goes "No, No! If anything there more based on Japanese Animation stuff"

True story.


But anyway, the specific Anime the look of the Tau battlesuits is supposed to be Similar to is a show called 'Appleseed' do a google and tell me they look more like Trade Federation Robots then.

Ridcully
12-10-2009, 15:04
Kroot remind me of Oddworld.
Which is odd, because i would say Abe is far more similar to the Tau. Both in terms of hair style, number of fingers (in certain games), and lack of jaws.

Abe (http://petepaquette.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/oddworld_abe.jpg)
Ethereal (http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Tau_Ethereal_Aun%27Shi.gif)

Fairly similar. Kroot share fashion sense, but not a whole lot else.

Bregalad
12-10-2009, 15:09
I think it'd be cool to start a thread with a list of all the armies and then add the possible or definite influences for each of their designs and background.
Like this?
http://ca.geocities.com/crazy40kguy/namesandhomages.html

Cuchulain84
12-10-2009, 15:20
Which is odd, because i would say Abe is far more similar to the Tau. Both in terms of hair style, number of fingers (in certain games), and lack of jaws.

Abe (http://petepaquette.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/oddworld_abe.jpg)
Ethereal (http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Tau_Ethereal_Aun%27Shi.gif)

Fairly similar. Kroot share fashion sense, but not a whole lot else.

I meant oddworld in a generic sense of the universe as opposed to a specific race in it.

http://www.psp-themes.net/data/media/5/Oddworld%20Theme.PNG


And I thought people were saying that Tau looked like the Neimodians (http://www.starwars.com/databank/species/neimoidian/img/movie_bg.jpg) in Episode I. I don't really agree that they look like the Trade Federation robots, though they definately share some aspects with the Tanks (http://www.scaleworkshop.com/gallery/images/tradefedtankka_title.jpg).

loveless
12-10-2009, 15:23
Ah, the new Star Wars Trilogy. I remember sitting in the theatre watching Episode III and laughing my butt off at pretty much every scene. Wonderful piece of comedy. Shame no one else in the theatre seemed to get the jokes...

That said, the Tau have never made me laugh uproariously at their antics - though Shadowsun's story did come close. Tau seem more like a cross between your bog-standard Greys and random mecha-anime.

fluffstalker
29-10-2009, 17:21
I can't honestly say any of the movies were worse than any other. It's space opera. Its a generic plot with overdone faux drama and awesome effects to distract you. Every movie used the best effects available at the time. So lets not say the new ones sucked and were just eye candy and the old ones had to rely on the plot, because that's not true.

This. The old ones are liked more because of rose colored glasses, is all. Hayden's acting was bad, but not much worse than Hamil's work on Luke. When he sees his surrogate parents burnt to pieces he barely bats an eyelid at least Hayden displays some emotion when he tears the Sand Village to pieces.

The one exception to this is the excellent Alec Guiness, who does give the older movies a bit more gravitas.

Bonzai
29-10-2009, 17:33
Lol, at first I was going to try and defend GW and say that the Tau predated episode 1, but then I checked and learned that they didn't. Episode 1 came out in 1999, Tau came in 2001.

Man time flies...

Cognitave
29-10-2009, 17:38
I always thought Tau were inspired by a really bad Mecha anime combined with lots and lots of alcohol. This is an interesting perspective...


But I just have to say, the "Shas'o" and "Shas'ui" annoyed me before. If GW releases their next codex and I see/hear "Meesa Shas'O!", I'm gonna lose it.

Col. Tartleton
29-10-2009, 17:47
This. The old ones are liked more because of rose colored glasses, is all. Hayden's acting was bad, but not much worse than Hamil's work on Luke. When he sees his surrogate parents burnt to pieces he barely bats an eyelid at least Hayden displays some emotion when he tears the Sand Village to pieces.

The one exception to this is the excellent Alec Guiness, who does give the older movies a bit more gravitas.

Well obviously Guiness was good. Guiness is always good.:angel: I mean how many actors get knighted for their acting... I mean even Connery is knighted for his charities and whatnot (then again he's nowhere near as good an actor... I SAID IT! He just got the love of ladies because he looks rediculously similar to the Ayatollah...)

Poseidal
29-10-2009, 18:12
I always thought Tau were inspired by a really bad Mecha anime combined with lots and lots of alcohol. This is an interesting perspective...


Hey!

Metal Armour Dragonar was not really bad, it was ok. (though not one of the greats).

Dangersaurus
29-10-2009, 18:23
Bah. At some point it's not worth arguing. We're basically comparing piles of poop here and saying one is better or worse than the other.

Nah, you're arguing that a bunch of decently fun and entertaining movies don't measure up to the heights you've raised your childhood memories of some decently fun and entertaining movies to. It happens.

DeadlySquirrel
29-10-2009, 18:57
i think that the tau have nothing to do with the DROIDS from episode one, they do however look like clones of the grey guys sho build them.