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Enfid
11-10-2009, 14:45
I know there had been a discussion about this, but it was posted 5 months ago, and never really reached a "conclusion". So I think I'm allowed to post this.

I'm thinking of a simple house rule I want to try out for generic epic heroes.

I think of this house rule in the context of a map-based campaign where an army has no Epic heroes leading it (or ran out of it), or a very small point game where a normal Epic hero may be a bit too powerful.

Basically when the battle begins, assuming both armies have no Epic heroes, one hero in each army may be chosen as the army general. He gains +1 F, +1 C. He then counts as an Epic hero in all aspects.

The 'upgrade' doesn't cost any point, seeing that both players get it. I do it this way so the players can have a hero to play around with, while not having ones with overly powerful or game-changing rules.

Here's one idea that I haven't thought about thoroughly. Let's say a generic Epic hero must be given a single Epic action chosen from the list of the most common Epic actions on pg. 69. This includes

Epic Challenge
Epic Charge
Epic Defence
Epic Rage
Epic Sacrifice
Epic Shot
Epic Strike

is it balanced, or is one Epic action clearly more powerful than the others? Is an Epic action broken if used by a hero on a side it can't generally use (e.g. an Evil hero using Epic Defence or Epic Sacrifice)?

Also, this is assuming both players have no Epic heroes to begin with. If one player does have an Epic hero, but the other doesn't, do you think giving a hero on the latter side the above rules too much?

jaws900
11-10-2009, 16:58
chosing the Epic action is too broken as people will be choising Shot, Strike and somtimes defence all the time and would never choise Sacrafive, Charge, Challange etc. It is better to roll a D6 to find out.
1 - The reseave no Epic Action
2 - Charge
3 - Dfenece
4 - Shot
5 - Strike
6 - Chose any one of the above

Reinholt
11-10-2009, 18:43
My thoughts would be thus:

1 - Allowing people to pick is way too good, and also doesn't really fit with theme in some cases (dwarves with epic shot?).

2 - As stated, some are much better than others. I'm not so big a fan of "random" epic actions either, but if you really want to have generic leaders, why not just let people take either a captain as an Epic Hero (50 points) or use one of the relatively mild heroes from a faction as the "template" for their hero.

A counts-as Isildur, for example, is hardly out of control.

Enfid
12-10-2009, 08:08
Ah that's what I thought. :p Glad I ask first.

The idea of count-as is generally problem free and easy to implement, but what about armies that lack those milder Epic heroes? Misty Mountains comes to mind. Angmar is worse. Even Mordor only has Gothmog as a non-caster choice, and he's not really a pushover.

I've been thinking about choosing a captain and count him as an Epic hero, but as a general I want him to be a bit beefier. (hence the slightly increased stat, and the idea of having an Epic action to play with. I think I'll try out with just the stats boost and see what happens.)


A bit off topic:
By the gods, while typing this I've been going through the Epic actions again (I don't get to use Rage, Sacrifice, Charge, etc a lot) and..... who came up with these? You're right, even mathematically, Epic charge pales in comparison to Epic strike. And why does Epic rage only benefit one company, but the whole formation suffer? Probably because rage belongs mostly to the Evil side *grumble* So yeah, clearly everyone will pick Strike or Defence or maybe Shot.

precinctomega
12-10-2009, 12:12
Why not simply allow the Genepic Heroes (dyswidt?) to choose one Epic action from Strike, Defence and Shot? If those are clearly going to be the ones they choose normally anyway and these three are clearly more advantageous overall than the other choices, this should make Genepic Heroes relatively balanced and logical whilst still giving a modicum of variation.

R.

Spiney Norman
14-10-2009, 00:11
Why not make the epic heroes pay pts for the epic actions as upgrades and cost them accordingly, so you can have a cheaper hero with a less powerful ability, or pay premium points for the more powerful ones.

Enfid
14-10-2009, 04:12
I'm thinking about the point cost of the Epic actions, but thanks for the input so far guys!

Charax
14-10-2009, 08:15
The points cost-based system would be my first choice - after all, the game uses points costs to gauge the relative effectiveness and power of units, surely it's a no-brainer that, given the different power and effectiveness of Epic actions, they'd have different points costs?

hell, I'd go the whole hog and make a full Generic Epic Hero entry rather than just making it an upgrade for an existing hero

jaws900
14-10-2009, 10:20
thats a good idea Charax. You could have a bace profile and then all it would need is a little editing from hero to hero as well as the epic actions changing to suit.
EG. The Goblin would be cheaper than the reast and have a lower fight and courge and maybe epic Cowidice or Challange. Wilst the Gondorian would be basic and have Epic Defence whist the Uruk-hai would have a higher Fight and maybe Epic Rage.

Enfid
15-10-2009, 02:07
Generic Epic hero entry huh..............good idea! :) When I have the time I'll work on it, and post it here and see what you guys think.

Before I get into that, do you think the epic actions should be fixed, or should the generic epic heroes be able to buy additional epic actions (and maybe epic hero special rules) for appropriate point cost?

jaws900
15-10-2009, 05:17
Generic Epic hero entry huh..............good idea! :) When I have the time I'll work on it, and post it here and see what you guys think.

Before I get into that, do you think the epic actions should be fixed, or should the generic epic heroes be able to buy additional epic actions (and maybe epic hero special rules) for appropriate point cost?

I think they should depend on who the person is(Race). A Epic of Roha may have Charge while a Gondorian may have Defence and a Uruk-hai wwould have Rage.