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fubukii
12-10-2009, 02:13
after being at my local gw today i had created a list tournament style for the new skaven. I shall make warseerian history and post the first 7th ed skaven list !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wooooo :D

my thoughts. I have been playing skaven since roughly end of 5th ed ( iahev about a 7-8kpt army). I am extremely excited about the new models and rules. The book is less focused on magic missle/shooting spam and more based on synergy. The list i feel is at least on par with LM/DE tournament builds. I also feel it can fight vc/doc tournament lists fairly. This is my first draft with the book i am sure with army builder and such i could fine tune a slightly better list but here we go ! thoughts and comments welcome.


2250
Grey seer - Skalm (heals all wounds) , scrying stone (3+ward vs first wound suffered) 2 scrolls starts with d3 tokens, Knows spells from lore of plague and ruin, may know any number of both (for example 3 plague 1 ruin.)
Plague priest lvl 2, fould pendant, Plague censer, Plague furnance. ( all models in btb take 2 t tests no saves, the furnace also deals art dice str 5 hits, and str 5 impact hits)
Warlock - lvl 2, warp energy condenser (+2 to warped lightning's hits, on a 5+ egnerates a extra power dice.)

3 x 25 clanrats - full cmd
4 x 21 slaves
2 rat swarms
25 plague monks full cmd storm banner (-2 enemy shooting, non bs shooting needs 4+ to shoot)
2 x 6 plague censer bearers (3 atks each with hatred and frenzy, gain stuubron within 6 inches of furnance, and use plague monks rank bonus to add to ld within 12.)
1 doom wheel ( does 3 hits at art dice str d6 wounds to closet unit str6 t6 5 wounds impact hits, so it breaks ranks :) ) - basically its hear to park itself next to big things like bloodthristers and just zap them dead.
1 helbit abomination - warpstone spikes (mr1 magical attacks)

basic premise is to use rat swarms to stop my frenzied unit from being baited. Storm banner keeps my guys alive from shooting. I plan to use plague spells such as wither/plague to dominate the army ( since toughness tests and low str hits are abundant). I am thinking about adding a extra plague priest with lvl 2 and a flail to the army with the -1 to shoot his unit item. i would have to drop the helpit abom for a doom wheel, and some of the 2nd plague censer bearer unit to do so. it owuld grant me 2 more pd, 4 more str 6 attacks, and make my big block a extra -1 to hit. thoughts?

Paraelix
12-10-2009, 02:23
Kinda pointless to ask for criticism when nobody else has the rules... Don't you think?

fubukii
12-10-2009, 02:33
maybe, but theres alot of the rles in the thread and i thought i did a nice job posting aboutwhat the units do :P

in addition i was just excited about the army ! :D

cyberspite
12-10-2009, 10:21
Well I too plan on jumping on the skaven bandwagon, unfortunately I don't know enough about them yet to really comment but I have a feeling you may need more than 25 monks to reliably push the furnace, what with all the toughness tests

Ward.
12-10-2009, 10:39
I like everything about your list, except the small size of clanrats units.

My own tournament list will probably include 2 abominations, some rat ogres, a warlord and as many mortars as I can fit into the list.

Chaseyboy1er
12-10-2009, 23:36
I actually think that this list is horrible.:D

nagash42
13-10-2009, 00:10
no don't take out the abomination it's so cool

Seabo
13-10-2009, 00:43
Doom Wheels....
Those things used to rock lol. Plague Furnace sounds extremly dangerous to both yourself and opponent.
Gotta get me a look at this book :D
No desire to play the Followers of Green Cheese again but still good to know your future enemies :)

fubukii
13-10-2009, 04:50
correct on the furnance, it causes d6 toughness tests to my unit and the enemy instead of all in btb. Just the censer does all models in btb. Maybe ill drop the censer to save some casulties (as i can lne up like 12 models with its base) as the d6 tests should be enough to handle knight units? Or i can just keep the plague censer :D

jospoon
13-10-2009, 05:13
I've been playing Skaven since 4th ed. It was my first army too. :D

I think furnace is a must if you plan to play cencer bearers to provide them stubborn which is crucial. :)

Yes, I do agree that Skaven now is about synergy.
Here's a few rules of thumb.
- If you have slow moving units (pushing bell/furnace) and magic heavy, go for Doomwheels as they will probably be far ahead zapping enemies first.
- If you plan to take more horde with min magic, go for Abonimations so that you can afford to have both! And at least they won't hurt your fast moving horde as much as the Doomwheels. :)

fubukii
13-10-2009, 07:46
those are valid points, i was thinking 2 doom wheels may out perform the abom/wheel combo. sure it doesnt hit as hard, but it kills large monsters alot easier and still breaks ranks.

jospoon
13-10-2009, 07:58
Yup, in fact the list I'm going to build is something like this:

-Grey Seer on bell pushed by stormvermins with max static CR
-Snikch (to hide in the stormvermins unit making sure grey seer is unharmed)
-Priest on furnace
-Battle standard bearer (joining stormvermins)
-Stormvermines to push the bell
-Plague Monks of course to push the furnace
-2 big units of slaves
-2 units of plague cencer bearers to cover rear and flank when needed
-a jezzail team to give some long range threat
-2 doomwheels to go crazy! :D

jospoon
13-10-2009, 08:42
Unfortunately Ikit Claw being the Skyre clan, not able to take up Jezzails as core or Doomwheel/WLC as special. So we are kinda stuck with the limited 2 rare slots for Doomwheels or WLCs. :(

I myself have plenty of jezzails and 2 WLCs as well. And is so a MUST to field Doomwheel if you want to go Skyre. Sucks not able to field 2 WLCs and 2 Doomwheels. :(

Gork or Possibly Mork
13-10-2009, 17:21
Not sure if points would allow but how does this sound.

x3 Plague Priest on Plague Furnace
x1 Chieftan BSB
30x2 Slaves+Slings
25x4 ClanRats+Shield+4 Poisoned Wind Mortor Weapon Teams
24x3 Plague Monks
2x DoomWheels
2x Rat Swarms

13 units if you don't count the mortar teams seperate :D

Setup something like this in checker board deployment.
PPF=PlaguePriest on Furnace with Plague Monks BSB in center unit.
MT=Poisoned Wind Mortor Weapon Teams
CR=ClanRats
SS=Skaven Slaves
DW=DoomWheels
RS=RatSwarms

DW..RS..SS... CR........CR........CR........CR...SS..RS..DW
....................MT PPF MT PPF MT PPF MT
.................................BSB^

One things for certain the magic heavy priest/monks build supported by clanrats, Mortors and DoomWheels looks pretty damn nasty.

fubukii
13-10-2009, 19:38
well its roughly 535 points for a bell seer, and 330 for a plague priest on furnance, so i think your list is over the 2250 cap hehehe :)

as for the mortars, they seem good overal by still only great vs rank and file guys which in the current tournament meta game isnt too much. (vc/tg i guess other skaven! and blackguard.)

Gork or Possibly Mork
13-10-2009, 23:55
well its roughly 535 points for a bell seer, and 330 for a plague priest on furnance, so i think your list is over the 2250 cap hehehe :)

as for the mortars, they seem good overal by still only great vs rank and file guys which in the current tournament meta game isnt too much. (vc/tg i guess other skaven! and blackguard.)

Guess your right. Seemed like a cool idea at the time. I don't have the book ( obviously lol ) and Im not a Skaven player.

I do however think the Skaven book is going to be highly competitive. Probably somewhere between Lizzies and DE. I still think a Priest/Monk heavy list backed by horde and doomwheels would be really tough though.

BramGaunt
14-10-2009, 00:19
after being at my local gw today i had created a list tournament style for the new skaven. I shall make warseerian history and post the first 7th ed skaven list !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wooooo :D

my thoughts. I have been playing skaven since roughly end of 5th ed ( iahev about a 7-8kpt army). I am extremely excited about the new models and rules. The book is less focused on magic missle/shooting spam and more based on synergy. The list i feel is at least on par with LM/DE tournament builds. I also feel it can fight vc/doc tournament lists fairly. This is my first draft with the book i am sure with army builder and such i could fine tune a slightly better list but here we go ! thoughts and comments welcome.


2250
Grey seer - Skalm (heals all wounds) , scrying stone (3+ward vs first wound suffered) 2 scrolls starts with d3 tokens, Knows spells from lore of plague and ruin, may know any number of both (for example 3 plague 1 ruin.)
Plague priest lvl 2, fould pendant, Plague censer, Plague furnance. ( all models in btb take 2 t tests no saves, the furnace also deals art dice str 5 hits, and str 5 impact hits)
Warlock - lvl 2, warp energy condenser (+2 to warped lightning's hits, on a 5+ egnerates a extra power dice.)

3 x 25 clanrats - full cmd
4 x 21 slaves
2 rat swarms
25 plague monks full cmd storm banner (-2 enemy shooting, non bs shooting needs 4+ to shoot)
2 x 6 plague censer bearers (3 atks each with hatred and frenzy, gain stuubron within 6 inches of furnance, and use plague monks rank bonus to add to ld within 12.)
1 doom wheel ( does 3 hits at art dice str d6 wounds to closet unit str6 t6 5 wounds impact hits, so it breaks ranks :) ) - basically its hear to park itself next to big things like bloodthristers and just zap them dead.
1 helbit abomination - warpstone spikes (mr1 magical attacks)

basic premise is to use rat swarms to stop my frenzied unit from being baited. Storm banner keeps my guys alive from shooting. I plan to use plague spells such as wither/plague to dominate the army ( since toughness tests and low str hits are abundant). I am thinking about adding a extra plague priest with lvl 2 and a flail to the army with the -1 to shoot his unit item. i would have to drop the helpit abom for a doom wheel, and some of the 2nd plague censer bearer unit to do so. it owuld grant me 2 more pd, 4 more str 6 attacks, and make my big block a extra -1 to hit. thoughts?


Cross out the 3 additional slaves and add another unit of Censer bearers - you are 90 points short on that list. Anywhere, you lack a breaker unit and are vulnerable against enemy magic and more of all shooting. The storm banner will only save you one turn.

fubukii
14-10-2009, 03:32
maybe 2 turns :D

But regardless the lsit has 6ddand 10 pd. 6dd and 2 scrolls should be good magic d i feel, the abom and the plagemonks have mr1/2

After playing my first game today with new list, i realized that the furnance is one hell of a hammer unit (d6 tough tests does well, losts of str 3 attacks probably posioned, 4 str 6 attacks, and art dice str 5 hits mangles most units.), and so are the PCB and doom wheel. My abom didnt make it into combat which was saddening. But i ended up with a massacre in my favor :D

After rereading my list i am still at 2248.5 you must have forgetten to add something in?
i may drop the abom, for a second doom wheel after a couple more games

Jind_Singh
14-10-2009, 06:41
Blooming skaven with 1/2 point items! When do we Goblins get that? My boys cost an arm and a leg compared to the Skaven!
I actually really like the new models - I know that my Empire wouldn't like facing the list you threw out

jospoon
14-10-2009, 10:13
Yea! Doomwheels all the way man! :D

fubukii
14-10-2009, 14:48
this saturday i will be playing vs a 2 eotg/slann tg lizardmen army i will post my results after the game :)

Malorian
14-10-2009, 14:59
this saturday i will be playing vs a 2 eotg/slann tg lizardmen army i will post my results after the game :)

Yes yes yes, please post the battle report :)

fubukii
20-10-2009, 05:26
ok played next game advanced to 2-0 record with 2 massacres now.

Basically doomwheels > eotgs
Lucky miscast causes deadly 13 spell on unit of tg. plague wither, plague monk charge game over. :)

( used 2 doomwheel and 6 More PCB instead of the abom.)

Mullitron
20-10-2009, 11:41
Doomwheels do seem the way to go with tournament lists, how about the bell tho? From what ive read from the rumor threads it sounds quite powerful, is it not tournament material?

fubukii
21-10-2009, 00:30
the bell can be good, but i feel it owuld be better in a 3k+ enviroment, i havent tested it too much but it seems like it could be deadly with alot of PCB/monks.

The problem is that the seer on bell costs 500ish points and storm vermin arent too cheap either. it would probably cost. another 225 for the unit. meaning thats roughly 1/3rd of your list already before any support. you need at leats 10pd to make the seer worth it so 1 priest 1 lock min. Maybe a plague furnace. add in some PCB and more core units. Actually it may work. ill have to add it up when i get another look at the book.

Ereinion
21-10-2009, 13:40
Hey fubukii.
Cool to hear your already gaming with the new book. My collection will allow me to aswel bar a few things which i can sort anyway.
Few questions i wanted to throw your way.

What sort of list was the lizards you faced?
What of the list has preformed well in both of the games so far?
How did the Doom Wheels work, how di dthey kill different targets?

I still havnt read the book due to local GW store not having it yet so desperate to know more about all.

fubukii
21-10-2009, 21:11
Question 1) Typical eotg spam tournament army.
2) Doom wheels, plague furnace, PCB, Grey seer
3) they work greatly. THey move like a chariot which is nice, you basically just park them near the units you want dead and nail them with tons of shots (normally things with multiple wounds, stegs, dragons, Flamers, flesh hounds etc) After whittling it down or if you have both wheel handy, muster up a dual charge on a unit doing 2d6 + 2 str 6 impact hits with us10 of terror causing death :) the great thing about the wheel that i like better then other chariots is even if its not in combat its killing something. also str 6 is Great, sooo much better then str 5 impact.

thrawn
21-10-2009, 21:15
this is hilarious, this is basically the exact same list i put together! i ahve a feeling your looking for all the good things and maybe missing some of the more subtle strengths (which of course is something everyone does once a new army book is released!). so of course, i like the list! :)

fubukii
21-10-2009, 22:47
well yes im going for the best builds i can and testing them vs competitive lists. I think i shall have one of my friends use my daemons to test it vs next.

Ereinion
22-10-2009, 09:34
Hey Fubukii.
Thats really cool as this style of list is used by 2 or 3 people at my local store, aswel as comp dark elves, daemons, chaos and a vampire list so im looking to write a list to compete with these.
Did you run the Grey Seer on bell or within a unit?
Im still thinking about whether to have 1 wheel/1 Abomination or 2 wheels. With your feedback so far with wheels they do sound great for holding flanks by themselves and very competative.
Cant wait to hear how you get on against daemons, what sort of list will it be against?

fubukii
22-10-2009, 13:10
i will probably face the same list i have been taking to the tournament scene in my area with a very impressive record (only 1 loss)

thrister - fsb, immortal fury, Obsidian armor
Hok- jugg, aok, bsb, +d3 cr
hot, power votrex
hot - master of sorcery, spellbreaker
3 x 10 horrors
2 x 5 furies
2 x 5 hounds
2 x 5 flamers

My main concern is the thrister and the hok unit. I am fairly certain with the storm banner and pcb i should be able to fish out the flamers, nicely and my blocks can hold up to the rest of the army minus the 2 hammer units. Basically it will be a game of manuevering and postioning i have to keep my doomwheels near the multiple wound units (thrister/hounds/flamers) ill keep the wheels near my pricey units, then when the thrister lines up a nice charge stop his flying movement with the banner and then park both wheels near by, or wait till he gets locked into a fight and bam doomwheel him.

It should be tough, but i just got to get posioned attack spells off and out move him. luckily i dont have to play myself as i know what im planning :)

fubukii
22-10-2009, 14:42
i will probably face the same list i have been taking to the tournament scene in my area with a very impressive record (only 1 loss)

thrister - fsb, immortal fury, Obsidian armor
Hok- jugg, aok, bsb, +d3 cr
hot, power votrex
hot - master of sorcery, spellbreaker
3 x 10 horrors
2 x 5 furies
2 x 5 hounds
2 x 5 flamers

My main concern is the thrister and the hok unit. I am fairly certain with the storm banner and pcb i should be able to fish out the flamers, nicely and my blocks can hold up to the rest of the army minus the 2 hammer units. Basically it will be a game of manuevering and postioning i have to keep my doomwheels near the multiple wound units (thrister/hounds/flamers) ill keep the wheels near my pricey units, then when the thrister lines up a nice charge stop his flying movement with the banner and then park both wheels near by, or wait till he gets locked into a fight and bam doomwheel him.

It should be tough, but i just got to get posioned attack spells off and out move him. luckily i dont have to play myself as i know what im planning :)

Ereinion
22-10-2009, 16:27
Thats a tough list, will definitly test your skaven list and give you an indication to its potential.

How do you plan to deal with all the speed of the army, i know the banner helps the flying, but the hounds will be on your line pretty quick.

Where did you have your Grey Seer in the army?
I havn't had much use with a Grey Seer in previous editions, and always feel you have to keep them well protected, which has put me off them unless on Bell. I am considering using a Grey Seer in my new list, which i know we have discussed on the tactics thread, and this is why im interested in yur tactics for using one. If only I could fit Seer with Bell and 2 furnaces plus everything else :p.
Sorry for slightly off topic.

fubukii
22-10-2009, 17:31
well actually i dont mind hounds or other fast units much unless they are en mass.

the answer to it is the checkerboard deployment tactic that i employ, it makes it EXTREMELy difficult for anything with a ground move to get to my clanrats. Playing skaven is all about the movement phase and setting yourself up in later turns for good opportunities for flanks/charges. Redirecting charges with ratswarms/slaves is key to success vs any army.

I try to deploy like this with my cheap expendable units in the front.
x x x x x x
x x x x x

In my mind there isnt anything in this army my wheels should be scared of, 6 art dice str d6 wound shots would kill any unit in his army quite effectively. the HOK is troublesome as he can fight my blocks solo and probably win, i got to hope to hit him with some spells or get some good doomwheel shots on him.

Archail
10-12-2009, 15:38
The thing with having a Censer Bearer on your Plague priest is that it now takes casualties from the front rank (Pg. 46, no longer distributed as shooting, though the Plague Furnace is, can still make them take 2 toughness tests). Sure you'll be hitting your own Plague monks as well, but they only fail on 6's, (If you have a brick of 30, it would hit 12, should lose 2, possible 3). Granted, if you get a wither off on a T3 unit that you're fighting, they'll be dropping like flies, and the CB will deal with those pesky ASF attacks.
I myself am having huge success with the HA and Doomwheel. They're definitely going to be mainstays of the army. I personally though, would replace the storm banner with the plague banner. Re-rolling all failed rolls to hit and wound on all plaguemonks (including the crew on the furnace) is amazing, even though it's only a one use item only. 20 points cheaper than the Stormbanner, and the unit is immune to psychology until the furnace is dead. I haven't found the Stormbanner to be useful (but then again, I haven't faced gun lines, I'm sure it'll come in handy then). I've mostly faced VC\HE\DA, and it's utterly pointless for VC unless they have a dragon or bats. That and the Storm Banner affects ALL shooting, not just the enemies. (This would include the shooting from the Doomwheel), Granted if you use it on the enemies turn and it doesn't stick around you're fine. Now this doesn't affect your list too much, cause you pretty much only have the Doomwheel that can shoot, but still, thoughts to consider.