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Krail
12-10-2009, 07:38
In prospect of the upcoming Blood Angels (Angels of Death) Codex which will possibly go hand in hand with a Blood Angel Upgrade Kit, and regarding the released SW and older DA/BT ones how would be the demand for an Ultramarine one?

I would really like one, as most people seem to forget that Ultras are maybe a Codex Chapter, but this goes only for the doctrines used. The gouverning style is greek/roman, tho it is completly disregarded modelwise with the exception of one limited model years ago.

This is something that really irks me, as i read (especially here) that UMs are so bland that no one wants to play them. That and the Poster Boy attitude GW forced on us.

Back in the day as the founding chapters were created, the style for Ultras were created, but to my dismay they never pulled through.

What do you all think? The capablities and willingness on the GW side are existent (see SW/BT/DA and soon BA kits) .

Nicha11
12-10-2009, 07:40
If they released a Ultramarine upgrade Kit I might actually stop collecting 40k.
What the hell would they need one for anyway? Every single space marine kit was designed with the ultramarines in mind.

Vaktathi
12-10-2009, 07:43
The basic SM models are already Ultramarines, they already have greek/roman decorations like wreaths. They are the standard that most other chapters use, they really have nothing special that they would need an upgrade kit for in terms of looks. A UM kit really isn't needed (what would it be given that the basic kit already is the Ultramarine standard?), and the time and effort put into one could be better spent elsewhere.

grissom2006
12-10-2009, 09:21
Plus the fact they wonder about with omega upon their armour. Sorry but they don't warrant getting special treatment as it is they get shoved down our throats to much anyway.

genestealer_baldric
12-10-2009, 09:24
Hello Krail and welcome to warseer

Ultras on here tend to jumped on a clubed to death in short order due to a certain pice of drunken writing.

But as to your Question What excatly do you think they are lacking, they do seem to have a simpler style than others (SW, BA, BT) and so the upgrade spru may be rather sparse, they dont personlise there armour as much as other chapters.

AmKhaibitu
12-10-2009, 09:31
It's already possible to grab Ultramarine shoulderpads in the various plastic kits, and there's also a shoulderpad set available in metal.

Anything else you might need is in the kits more or less.

Tommygun
12-10-2009, 12:17
I think an Ultramarine kit would be popular, despite the angry posts here.
Angry people tend to post more than those that are not.
Because Ultramarine are popular, it makes some people hate them and they are vocal about it.
As said above, welcome to Warseer. We are not always this grumpy.

Lord Malorne
12-10-2009, 12:32
Well I am not angry and bear no ill will towards ultras, heck everytime someone says Calgar its followed by an incorrect account of what happened in the codex, with which I think :rolleyes: at them.

So I feel safe in saying there would be no reason and very little demand for such a sprue.

Onisuzume
12-10-2009, 12:37
There's already plenty of UM stuff on the basic marine kits...
So how much hate do you want to generate with the suggestion of a UM upgrade kit?

Edonil
12-10-2009, 13:54
Hello Krail and welcome to warseer

Ultras on here tend to jumped on a clubed to death in short order due to a certain pice of drunken writing.





Because Ultramarine are popular, it makes some people hate them and they are vocal about it.

Just pointing out that not all of us despise the Ultramarines for their popularity. I have issues with them that are profoundly more complex than that, and involve the basics of their entire method of war. But, I will not go into that so as not to turn this into another Ultramarine barbecue...at least not because of my actions.

In answer to the OP, the fact is that all of the Space Marine kits at current are designed to be Ultramarines, and the vast majority of the iconography available in kits like the Tactical Box (nm. Any Marine box beyond Black Templar, Dark Angel, or Space Wolf specific) are geared towards them. So, I must agree with an aforementioned question- what do you think is missing to make them more Ultramarine like?

And welcome to Warseer!

TimLeeson
12-10-2009, 14:00
I dont think they need on personally for many of the reasons already mentioned, but if any marine chapter could do with one, I think the Iron Hands have alot of potential - all the bionics, cybernetics, robotic limbts ect. Useful for more than just marines too (admech, necrons, iron warriors ect).

guillimansknight
12-10-2009, 14:41
If they released a Ultramarine upgrade Kit I might actually stop collecting 40k.
What the hell would they need one for anyway? Every single space marine kit was designed with the ultramarines in mind.

Agreed.

Why do we get UM model bits in the GENERAL!! SM boxes??

Onisuzume
12-10-2009, 14:55
So, I must agree with an aforementioned question- what do you think is missing to make them more Ultramarine like?
Pre-molded UM stuff?
Oh wait, we already have that in those kits. :rolleyes:

Why do we get UM model bits in the GENERAL!! SM boxes??
Because the UM are the Mary Sues of 40k?

Kurisu313
12-10-2009, 15:15
I'd be far more interested in seeing a Salamander upgrade kit. They don't even have metal shoulder pads. Add in a few dragonscale cloaks, a cheap excuse for a few more plastic meltaguns and multi-meltas, along with power armoured thunder hammers, it'd be awesome. I think this would add the most to the marine plastic range.

While Iron hands would be cool, I believe their metal box set is still available online, so they aren't in a rush.

I'd be vaguely curious in a white scar kit. Hunting lances, handlebar moustaches, sabres and saddlebags.

Unlike some people here, I wouldn't be averse to an Ultramarine kit - a few moulded shoulder pads, and roman style brush helmets would be cool. It is true, however, that it really isn't needed. Anything that adds diversity to the marine plastics would be A-OK with me, but Sallies first, please.

AndrewGPaul
12-10-2009, 16:16
Off the top of my head, I'd say that an Ultramarine sprue could have:

gladius-style daggers
crests, both moulded on heads and separate
torsos with the leather skirt bits
artificer torsos with moulded musculature, like "hollywood" Centurion armour. As long as people don't complain it looks too much like Tycho's armour. :rolleyes:
Tyranid Hunter veteran parts - bolters with Tyranid bones on them, storm shields with Tyranid heads hanging from them, etc. Possibly the storm shields could be shaped like Legionary shields rather than the standard cruciform ones.
short gladius-style power swords
General icons - little Ultramarine symbols, etc.
Terminator arms with Ultramarine symbols on the weapons

Granted, some of that stuff is already on the generic Space Marine sprues, but not all of it.

Krail
12-10-2009, 19:37
Lurking long enough to know that Warseer is an anti-SM and specially UM forum, so no biggie.

Generating hate as someone asked...nope. Far from it.
Be honest and look at it from an objective point of view (difficult i know, but come on try it, just once ;) ).

The so called UM pieces are what? A tabbard? One UM symbol? And...uh wait! Thats it. Darn is that prominent.

I am aware that all starter kit releases bear UM marks...wait...no they dont.

So it boils down to what? 5? 6? single pieces spread over how many boxes of generic marines?

The difference is UM are not generic, GW just neglected the developement of the premise. The Greek/Roman style.

We have 2 boxes with SW parts. Massive tailored bits for wolves. DA and BT boxes are full of goodies too. BA will get the same treatment if not even in line with the SW boxes.

I am asking for just a couple of helmet choices and maybe some power weapons in a more distinct style. Even enough spare place to combine it with another first founding chapter like Salamanders ( tho , they would need a complete box), Imperial Fists or Raven Guard.

Point standing, UMs were targeted as greek/roman style during developement. Same time SW i.E. got the Viking mark.

Why neglect it, if you can build on it? I suppose enough would buy it even if playing another chapter. Some nice roman helmets would fit in any chapter, wouldnt they? :)

kazkal
12-10-2009, 19:39
I've been pretty against marines getting too much love but I think giving all major chaptors upgrade kits wouldn't be that hard/time consuming and just something they should really offer so I wouldn't mind seeing them give smurfs a kit...with that being said I'd want new one for templars that comes with 50+ heads like Space wolves heh.

Fugazi
12-10-2009, 19:44
People would definitely buy it, so I don't see why GW wouldn't make it.

If the Roman bits could be used for other chapters, I'd probably buy it too.

(and I say this hoping that GW addresses other armies first)

Max Jet
12-10-2009, 19:52
No personal problem against it, but I expect you UM players to buy it in tons and throw your money at GW, so that it actually turns out to be a win for them and not a waste of materials they could have used for plastic Necrons or new dark eldar.
After all this is not about prestige, but investement.

Fugazi
12-10-2009, 19:54
Yeah, definitely. I think a UM upgrade kit would help finance other army releases.

LokkoRex
12-10-2009, 19:56
i would propably buy a box like that, Krail,
besides, BT, DA, BA and SW got one and has had for a long time now(methinks), i'm surprised gw hasn't done one already. i'm fully expecting them to do one for each major chapter in time.

Bladelord
12-10-2009, 19:59
A Ultramarine upgrade kit? At the best of times, something containing lots of Roman stuff with Ultramarine symbols could be ordered from FW or Direct. The standard Marine pack is the Ultramarine pack. :)

In this case, Grey Knights or Salamanders would be much better off, but preferably Iron Hands, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons would be better candidates.

Space Marines appeal to everyone. They're good, fun and opens up many possibilities for painting and converting tweaks.

But they're not all there is in the 40k universe - considering the other armies' quality in background and often models, the love should be more evenly spread. I'm one for Marine codexes - as long as they are full-sized, well written, comes with cool models and do not interfere horribly much with the other stuff's release schedules.

An upgrade pack for Ultramarines would sell, but GW should concentrate on other things. That would rather demand the "Codex-release-independent" expertise of Forge World.

spetswalshe
12-10-2009, 20:14
Currently, there just isn't enough different to warrant a UM kit; if they did return them to their roots (as in more greco/roman, less Codex), then we'd need new Codex Marine poster boys. I really don't think GW are going to make the UM into a 'variant' army - they've been their set menu Space Marines for years, and are specifically used to showcase the generic models. Whereas several of the Chapters in common usage use a monastic theme, which warrants their own upgrade kit (just one though, I don't really see why the BT and DA ones couldn't have been combined and made more generic, would certainly have opened the options up a little). While I really, really, hate Space Wolves, they're different enough to warrant a kit (though arguably wouldn't have been popular enough to warrant one if the new Codex hadn't been released) - personally I would have preferred a Wolf Pelt/Hairy Head sprue that could have been used for Middenheimers or Norse in Fantasy as well.

Imperialis_Dominatus
12-10-2009, 22:55
Eh. A small kit maybe. Plus if it were released after we find a way to harness hatred, we could power a few cities.


welcome to Warseer. We are not always this grumpy.

Lies!

tacoo
12-10-2009, 23:32
ill be ok if the ultra's got a kit if the spacewolves also got a movie

Col. Tartleton
13-10-2009, 01:02
If enough copies of the film are sold I'm sure there's a 1/3 chance we'll see one.

1/3 Ultramarines Part 2/Legit Big Screen Production
1/3 Spacewolves: The Movie (They'd definitely be GW's pick #2)
1/3 Not Another Marine Movie (Either the title of the film or the fact they aren't going to make another)

Lion El Jason
13-10-2009, 01:33
Tbh there's enough ultras stuff around. There are UM specific belt bits, banner tops and backpack decorations in the basic boxes (There are enough that I have a box full of useless ultras parts including a load of shoulder pads) so I don't think they need one.

They also got the BfM and AoBR marines which are ultras styled and the insignia is ultras too (I can't use my AoBR tacticals if I follow my chapter icons correctly for example).

Oldguny
13-10-2009, 01:52
Off the top of my head, I'd say that an Ultramarine sprue could have:

gladius-style daggers
crests, both moulded on heads and separate
torsos with the leather skirt bits
artificer torsos with moulded musculature, like "hollywood" Centurion armour. As long as people don't complain it looks too much like Tycho's armour. :rolleyes:
Tyranid Hunter veteran parts - bolters with Tyranid bones on them, storm shields with Tyranid heads hanging from them, etc. Possibly the storm shields could be shaped like Legionary shields rather than the standard cruciform ones.
short gladius-style power swords
General icons - little Ultramarine symbols, etc.
Terminator arms with Ultramarine symbols on the weapons

Granted, some of that stuff is already on the generic Space Marine sprues, but not all of it.

See now your thinking. I would love to see something like that.
To be honoist I don't know why GW won't do some thing like this. UM are the most popular codex chapter out there. They would make a but load of $$$!
Also I'm and UM player and proud of it and I would love to have some stuff like that.

Inquisitor Engel
13-10-2009, 01:56
Yeah, definitely. I think a UM upgrade kit would help finance other army releases.

Thanks for making sense! :D

guillimansknight
13-10-2009, 03:41
.
Also I'm and UM player and proud of it and I would love to have some stuff like that.

CLUB HIM TO DEATH!! NOW!!!:mad:

I'm getting Alpharious.............





..........................oh bugger I can't find him


Or maybe I have and just don't know it.

AmKhaibitu
13-10-2009, 04:24
See now your thinking. I would love to see something like that.
To be honoist I don't know why GW won't do some thing like this. UM are the most popular codex chapter out there. They would make a but load of $$$!
Also I'm and UM player and proud of it and I would love to have some stuff like that.

Ultramarines aren't the most popular chapter, and I'm not sure we have a way to gather appropriate data to substantiate such claims.

I do believe they are the most hated chapter though, purely as they've been forced down our throats as the Mary Sues of 40k.

They have parts in the standard marine kits.

Compared to a release of kits for whole armour types like marks 8 (true mark 8, not that 7.5 we see all over the place) or 6 they'd not raise a lot of interest.

Grimbad
13-10-2009, 05:12
Plastic armor-through-the-ages would be wonderful, with enough parts to create a pure marine of each mark and have a bunch of fun spare bits left over. I'd love a few copies of all the various marks of bolter, with master crafted versions of each too. Not to mention artificier versions of each power armor part.
An ultramarines kit I'd consider, but only if there weren't omegas everywhere, just greco-roman bits with a few ultra symbols.

mr.kislev
13-10-2009, 07:10
i would only like to see this IF ultra marines were not the army of noobs. honestly whats the first model you painted in the colors in going to be, ultramarines. i love nicly paint UM armys (like that one in white dwarf a while back) but the majority i see are eye burning.

and from a finacial point of view it would sell like crazy every UM player would buy 5

A1TEC
13-10-2009, 08:30
All kits are based around the fact that players will most likely collect Ultras...just take a look at the boxes

shabbadoo
13-10-2009, 10:00
The basic kits are just your basic marines for any chapter.

I would do an Ultramarines Veterans boxed set. These sort of specialized, chapter-specific kits should be for building Veterans or just really decked out basic marines. Use the Space Wolves Pack sprues as a guide for all future sets. You can do a 10-man squad with the sprues, but you can add the extra bits to the other basic kits for some added chapter flavor. That means extra heads, lots of extra icon-bearing should pads and chest plates, and other little bits to glue on here and here. In addition to Sternguard/Vanguard Veterans bits, for Ultramarines I'd put some "Tyranid Hunter" bits on there too.

If done using a mold insert system, the main generic unit components could be on the main part of the mold, with the mold insert containing chapter-specific bits. Then the mold makers would only have to do mold inserts for chapter-specific bits for additional chapters, swap them out in the mold, and then mold sprues for the various chapters.

the1stpip
13-10-2009, 10:17
I agree that it is unnecessary, but then I am also sick of the Ultra Hatred (maybe we should call them the Ultramarine Ultras?)

There are other chapters more deserving of an upgrade sprue. I would personally like to see a Sallies upgrade sprue (cos I collect them) and I have heard that FW are working on an upgrade set.

I also agree that Iron Hands could also do with one.

wilsongrahams
13-10-2009, 10:27
I believe other chapters should get their boxed sets first, however a bitz pack like the old space wolf one and the extra frame in the dark angels veterans box would suffice. They don't need their own customized boz, just the actual extras on their own sprue like most bitz packs are. As it is they do suffer to kit out a whole squad with UM markings or even pads - one or two doesn't meet the full requirements of an army.

Do I sound totally unreasonable here? BTW, bring on the Blood Angels!!!!!

LonelyPath
13-10-2009, 10:31
Off the top of my head, I'd say that an Ultramarine sprue could have:

gladius-style daggers
crests, both moulded on heads and separate
torsos with the leather skirt bits
artificer torsos with moulded musculature, like "hollywood" Centurion armour. As long as people don't complain it looks too much like Tycho's armour. :rolleyes:
Tyranid Hunter veteran parts - bolters with Tyranid bones on them, storm shields with Tyranid heads hanging from them, etc. Possibly the storm shields could be shaped like Legionary shields rather than the standard cruciform ones.
short gladius-style power swords
General icons - little Ultramarine symbols, etc.
Terminator arms with Ultramarine symbols on the weapons

Granted, some of that stuff is already on the generic Space Marine sprues, but not all of it.

Some of that is well thought out and such a set would sell very well. Not just for UM players either, I can see some of those pieces beng used to create plastic Grey Knights conversions, particularly those torsos wit hthe tabards and artificer torsos.

AndrewGPaul
13-10-2009, 10:50
It's probably too late now for something like this. If I'd had my way, the existing Space Marine sprues would have generic iconography - skulls, scrolls, purity seals, cruces terminatus, etc. The Ultramarine sprue would have all the details I mentioned, plus all the Imperial Roman-looking bits already on the current Marine sprues.

I'd be tempted to make Thunder Hammers 2 parts - shaft and head - so that you can add Chapter-specific heads to sprues which take up less space than the existing ones (and also means you don't need Chapter-specific Terminator and Power Armour Thunder Hammers).

Finally, you could do a "Veterans" box set, with older armour marks (done properly, with the old-style backpacks and boltguns). Say in a box of 10 you have 5 mark 4, a mark 5, a mark 2, mark 3 and 2 mark 8 suits.

Oldguny
14-10-2009, 02:39
CLUB HIM TO DEATH!! NOW!!!:mad:

I'm getting Alpharious.............





..........................oh bugger I can't find him


Or maybe I have and just don't know it.

LOL nice........... I might have to find the Lord Marshall and report you ass.


Ultramarines aren't the most popular chapter, and I'm not sure we have a way to gather appropriate data to substantiate such claims.



Get real. Think about how many UM armys do you see? I see at least 2 in every shop I have been to. So compaird to other chapters I readly see more CUSTOM space marine chapters than codex ones. But really boy, sit back, look around, take it in, and smile.

But good sir since you know what the most popular chapter is, tell me I DIEING to know:p

AmKhaibitu
14-10-2009, 05:50
Get real. Think about how many UM armys do you see? I see at least 2 in every shop I have been to. So compaird to other chapters I readly see more CUSTOM space marine chapters than codex ones. But really boy, sit back, look around, take it in, and smile.

But good sir since you know what the most popular chapter is, tell me I DIEING to know:p

I'm lucky to see even one ultramarine force whenever I go in to a store, blood angels even outnumber them.

And sure while I am working on some 4th company Ultras for a friend right now, they're not exactly the poster standard.

People like to follow what's on the box and in front of them, which is what leads to a lot of poorly painted ultras, before the player either gets sick of 40k, or gets sick of ultras and chooses a different chapter or falls to chaos.

As for the most popular chapter, why that would be the Angry Marines.
If you don't believe it, they'll beat it in to you.

But as I was saying, we don't have a reliable sample method with which to analyse which chapter is the most popular (not most common, but popular).
Different areas have different likes, and we all know how accurate data from the internet is.

But still maybe they should have released an upgrade sprue not that long back when they re-released codex ultramarines, don't want to leave players hanging.

Krail
14-10-2009, 05:55
I believe other chapters should get their boxed sets first, however a bitz pack like the old space wolf one and the extra frame in the dark angels veterans box would suffice. They don't need their own customized boz, just the actual extras on their own sprue like most bitz packs are. As it is they do suffer to kit out a whole squad with UM markings or even pads - one or two doesn't meet the full requirements of an army.

Do I sound totally unreasonable here? BTW, bring on the Blood Angels!!!!!

And this is what i had in mind. Just a one sprue kit like the DA one would suffice.
Ther wouldnt even be a need for several torsos, just 3 to 5 front plates. Just more diversity in helmets and weapons would be nice.

Such a set would still be interesting for players of other Codex Chapters as it would give options.

Oh and of the most used generic SM boxes i think only the Command Squad has one! UM banner/backpack endpiece. None on Tacs, Assault, Dev or Scouts.

Just because they are painted blue on the box doesnt mean they are UM kits...

havokas
14-10-2009, 06:15
just wanted to throw this out there... ive never seen an actual ultramarine army in person. ive been in the hobby about a year and never seen anyone go to the boys in boring blue.
im personally not interested in a chapter that didnt participate in the horus herecy much who are rather bland apart from their battles with tyrinids. one or two special characters are interestng but their primarch was such a bastard about getting his way in the orginisation of chapters i just dont like them. expecially his problems with Dorn

Juggalo
14-10-2009, 07:14
So basically a kit to make them look more like Calgar's Honor Guard models? That would be neat, why not. I'd buy it.

Oldguny
17-10-2009, 03:07
But as I was saying, we don't have a reliable sample method with which to analyse which chapter is the most popular (not most common, but popular).
Different areas have different likes, and we all know how accurate data from the internet is.

But still maybe they should have released an upgrade sprue not that long back when they re-released codex ultramarines, don't want to leave players hanging.

I understand no hard feelings. Whats popular in one area could be completely different in another area. I hear you man.

I also agree with you on that GW should have released some bits for the Ultramarines when the codex came out but hey what can you do?:D

Metaphorazine
17-10-2009, 03:29
Are there any pics of marines converted to look how the OP wants Ultras to look? I'm interested in seeing how much different they would be from standard box-marines.

shabbadoo
17-10-2009, 05:44
I don't think they would much different from regular marines, just that they would have the Ultramarines iconography on the various bits. You can add bits similar to the Honour Guard though, like the helmet crest of the Ultramarines Chapter Champion, as a separate bit that you can glue on to whatever helmet style you want. You could have a few front to back helmet crests and one like Sicarius' side-to-side helmet crest. There would be a lot of room to fill with little bits, so even a couple styles of the wing-faced Honour Guard helmets could included. You buy a few of the Ultramarines sets and you have enough of those helmets for a whole squad, but you probably don't want to end up with a bazillion of them left over, so only two are needed on the third sprue frame. I like the eagle-head back-pack that the Space Marine Commander comes with too, so I'd put at lest one of those on there too. Attached is quick sketch with a few of the more basic ideas(somebody else can sketch out more ideas if they want to;)). All of the details would be embossed(but *not* too heavily).

Once again, this can be done for most of the chapters very easily by using a mold insert system. A 10-man squd would be on a 3-in-1 sprue tree, as seen HERE (http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/Wolves/100_3840.jpg) with the new Space Wolves Terminators. The first two frames would be taken up by the generic parts- 10 legs, 10 torsos, 10 back plates, 10 sets of arms, 20 shoulder pads, 10 legs, 10 heads, 10 backpacks, 10 bolters, 10 grenades, 10 bolt pistols, 1 meltabomb, and a few minor bits like purity seals and such. The third frame would contain all chapter-specific bits. One whole frame of the standard 8.5" x 5.75" size can hold a lot of bits. On it is would try to put 10 more heads(8 or 9 helmeted), 15 shoulder pads(9 basic symbol, 1 Vet. Sgt., 3 laurel wreath, 1 Commander, 1 Ultramarines Apothecary), 3 set of arms, 3 power weapons(weapon and hand only to save room as on the SW sprue), 1 combat shield, 1 stormshield(for power armor), 1 thunder hammers, 1 set of lightning claws , 3 Sternguard bolters, 2 bolters with ultra icons(one with a ultra symbol, one with ultra symbol w/laurels to the sides), 1 power fist, 1 plasma gun, 1 flamer, 1 meltagun, 1 missile launcher plus, 2 backpacks(one with eagle head exhausts, 1 with ultra symbol on back), and 5 chapter-specific chest plates. Overall the set contributes to making Sternguard Veterans, Honour Guard, and Vanguard Veterans, as well as being able to kit out basic Tactical, Assault, and Devastator Squads with chapter-specific bits. Not having done an actual sprue layout, some generic weapon bits(flamer, meltagun, plasma gun) I've listed for the third frame might need to be put on the other frames, or some things might have to be cut down on due to a lack of space for them.

And so it is this third sprue frame that would be the mold insert(i.e. a part of the mold that can be removed and replaced with another insert with different details on it). Only the insert has the chapter specific bits on it. To do a chapter specific set for another chapter all you have to do is tool up a mold insert of the third frame for them, install it in the mold, and then start injecting plastic. :cool: This does add some extra time and cost on the front end of designing the large metal mold to take an insert like this, but from what I know it can be done. On the back end of things, the savings on time and cost of developing sets for other chapters would more than make up for the initial investment.

The only important question is, does GW even have an interest in doing something like this?

Captain Idaho
17-10-2009, 10:28
I would absoultely love an Ultramarines upgrade kit! There is so much character and depth to the Chapter I think newbies and band wagoners gloss over in favour of ignorant Ultras bashing, and having a way for the less talented modellers out there (like me) to extend the Greco-Roman influences onto their models would be amazingly useful and enlighten people to the fact they aren't just plain and boring.

twistinthunder
17-10-2009, 11:33
Plus the fact they wonder about with omega upon their armour. Sorry but they don't warrant getting special treatment as it is they get shoved down our throats to much anyway.

your thinking of sons of orar (which are awesome though they are successors to ultramarines).

scarletsquig
17-10-2009, 11:52
This would be a great idea, they could even release an ultramarine codex where they can fight alongside Ultramar planetary defence forces.

We still need to re-release black templars and dark angels for 5th edition, along with making a blood angels codex and maybe salamanders and white scars books too.

It's more important that GW makes those codexes, once they're done then the ultramarine sprue can be released. It's important to get priorities right. ;)

Tyranids are being done soon, so the ultramarines will have something cool to pound into the dirt repeatedly. Hopefully there will be tyranid corpses on the sprues so ultramarine players can put them on their bases.

Mannimarco
17-10-2009, 12:03
as much as i hate ultra-love an ultramarine kit might be nice, look at the honour guard models or the tyranid hunter type vetrans: thats what an ultramarine should look like, not a generic marine painted the wrong shade of blue lead by vulkan (but thats another topic altogether)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1400008&rootCatGameStyle=

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1400007&prodId=prod1050236

and besides, theres already a metal shoulder pad with ultra icons on it

The Marshel
17-10-2009, 12:52
there is no reason why they couldn;t make an upgrade kit, the potential for bits is there, the market is there (i do see ultramarines relativity frequently, albeit by mostly younger players) so generally speaking it'd probably sell pretty good.

also, scarlet squig, please, don't take this as rude or obnoxious, but who are you? I assume by your large post count you know what you're doing and you're pretty knowledgeable, but why on earth would white scars need their own codex? everything unique about them is already unlocked by either a captain or khan on a bike and to add much more degree of uniqueness is more likely to turn them into a ravenwing clone then anything else. At least there is some merit in a salamanders book given the very different play stlye, popularity of Vulkan and different chapter structure, but even then they've already achieve the required effect with a special character and a special rule. I think the meer existance of vulkan and khan in cd:sm is enough to remove the possibility of a salamander book and a white scars book anytime before the next cd:sm

Captain Idaho
17-10-2009, 13:00
there is no reason why they couldn;t make an upgrade kit, the potential for bits is there, the market is there (i do see ultramarines relativity frequently, albeit by mostly younger players) so generally speaking it'd probably sell pretty good.



I am happy to see your sentiment for support, but take a peak at the B&C Ultras section and you will see the average Ultramarines player is actually 25! I think the magpie kids who chose Ultras have long moved onto something else (Probably Space Wolves!).


This would be a great idea, they could even release an ultramarine codex where they can fight alongside Ultramar planetary defence forces.

Definitely, a separation between the Ultramarines and "mundane" Space Marines would be a good thing in my opinion. No more Ultras hate, no more other Chapters being left out, everyone is happy!

The Marshel
17-10-2009, 14:20
I am happy to see your sentiment for support, but take a peak at the B&C Ultras section and you will see the average Ultramarines player is actually 25!

probably just my area

EmperorEternalXIX
17-10-2009, 14:33
I'd be pissed, and I'm a Space Marine fan. The Ultras have no flavor...they are just the marine statline. They don't deserve or need this at all. Everything you need to make an Ultramarine army is in the tac squad box set's decal sheet.

Captain Idaho
17-10-2009, 17:04
I'd be pissed, and I'm a Space Marine fan. The Ultras have no flavor...they are just the marine statline. They don't deserve or need this at all. Everything you need to make an Ultramarine army is in the tac squad box set's decal sheet.

And what makes you think they have no flavour? I don't want to insult you, but that comment is a little ignorant of the facts. Special rules that can represent the Ultramarines are not included just like the Imperial Fists or other Chapters.

Just because a Chapter fights Codex, it doesn't mean it has different capabilities to another Chapter that also fights as Codex. As an example, those raised in Ultramar are more self reliant, hard working and loyal than other peoples. They raise their children as the Spartans do in 300 and are militarised until 35, they believe no soldier should return home from battle unless they carry their shield or carried lifeless upon it. In addition to this, Ultramarines are expert at organisational and strategic planning, including logistics.

This means that the correct rule set to represent Ultramarines would be one that shows the Marines to be fearsome martially, such as the sterotype Spartan Warrior, while their commanders have brilliant abilities. 40K makes this difficult to implement due balance and simplification.

Likewise, fluff wise there is plenty of scope and depth. A potential schism is brewing between embittered Tyrannic War veterans lead by Cassius and the rest of the Chapter as stated in Cassius' unit entry, whilst there is potential rivalary between Captains as quoted in Sicarius' Codex entry.

I could go in depth here but I haven't the time or inclination. I don't think they need an upgrade kit, anymore than Dark Angels need it, but it would be nice to have. Bare in mind there are many Ultramarines players out there (supposedly) so why shouldn't they get it?

phoenix01
17-10-2009, 17:11
I've often wondered why the tactical marine box is set up the way it is. Looking at the list of available equipment for the tactical marine squad of ten, you get krak grenades (not in the box) and you can take a power weapon (not in the box), powerfist (not in the box), heavy bolter (not in the box), storm bolter (not in the box), combi-weapons (not in the box), multimelta (not in the box), plasma cannon (not in the box), lascannon (not in the box), melta bombs (not in the box), and a teleport homer (not in the box). The Rhino they ride in only has one storm bolter, but the Rhino may take two, let alone extra armor. And the new kits often show weapons that aren't in the boxes.

Frankly, I think that there should be one marines in power armor box that should have enough parts to do ten marines with their basic equipment (ten heads, ten torsos (front and back), ten blank shoulderpads, ten backpacks, ten legs, ten bolters, ten bolt pistols, ten sets of arms, ten frag and ten krak grenades). Then, there should be a seperate upgrade box for each major chapter (Ultramarines, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Raven Guard, etc.) each with heads, sculpted shoulderpads, extra sets of scuplted legs, backpacks, and torso fronts, power weapons, powerfists, assault weapons, jump packs, heavy weapons, decorative pieces, etc. decorated as associated with that chapter with enough options to equip two ten-man squads.

_Pĸ ĿōĐ_
18-10-2009, 13:55
I really hate all these noobs playing Ultramarines. I know that they are the noob army, but im working on my main army right now and i just have to say, Ultramarines are the best army in 40k when an experienced painter/player plays them.

Oldguny
18-10-2009, 17:00
And what makes you think they have no flavour? I don't want to insult you, but that comment is a little ignorant of the facts. Special rules that can represent the Ultramarines are not included just like the Imperial Fists or other Chapters.

Just because a Chapter fights Codex, it doesn't mean it has different capabilities to another Chapter that also fights as Codex. As an example, those raised in Ultramar are more self reliant, hard working and loyal than other peoples. They raise their children as the Spartans do in 300 and are militarised until 35, they believe no soldier should return home from battle unless they carry their shield or carried lifeless upon it. In addition to this, Ultramarines are expert at organisational and strategic planning, including logistics.

This means that the correct rule set to represent Ultramarines would be one that shows the Marines to be fearsome martially, such as the sterotype Spartan Warrior, while their commanders have brilliant abilities. 40K makes this difficult to implement due balance and simplification.

Likewise, fluff wise there is plenty of scope and depth. A potential schism is brewing between embittered Tyrannic War veterans lead by Cassius and the rest of the Chapter as stated in Cassius' unit entry, whilst there is potential rivalary between Captains as quoted in Sicarius' Codex entry.

I could go in depth here but I haven't the time or inclination. I don't think they need an upgrade kit, anymore than Dark Angels need it, but it would be nice to have. Bare in mind there are many Ultramarines players out there (supposedly) so why shouldn't they get it?

Amen! Everything I would have said and more. You hit it right on the head.

I think every legion chapter in the codex should get their on little spures kit.