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ithilmar
19-01-2006, 12:34
I have a two quick questions have come up in recent games.

1. Can you march block a unit that is not on the table (i.e. they pursued off the table or something and are moving back on)?

2. Does using a bound item end a remains in play spell?

thanks for any help

peteratwar
19-01-2006, 13:09
In principle you can march-block them, but you cannot stop them coming onto the table as close as they can to the spot they left it at.

Presumably you are talking about the same Wizard using the bound spell as created the RIP spell. Otherwise the answer is of course no. But I believe the Wizard who created the RIP spell can USE (note he does NOT cast it) the bound spell as it is the item itself which creates the spell.

Flame
19-01-2006, 13:12
I agree with peteratwar.

For example, a wizard who cannot cast (eg miscast), can still use a bound item.

Major Defense
19-01-2006, 14:06
Interesting point! And as a HE weasel in love with my rings and the Everqueen's staff, I will blindly agree with this view.

mageith
19-01-2006, 14:57
I have a two quick questions have come up in recent games.

1. Can you march block a unit that is not on the table (i.e. they pursued off the table or something and are moving back on)?

Per convention you can, the rules say otherwise. Since no unit was within 8 inches "at the start of turn" (54), the incoming unit is not technically march blocked. Usually players say that it is, though.

I suppose one could say if a unit is within 8 inches of the entry point at the start of the turn, the unit will be march blocked. Sometimes the exact position of the entry point is pretty nebulous though.

Mage Ith

T10
19-01-2006, 21:39
1: Can you march block a unit that is not on the table (i.e. they pursued off the table or something and are moving back on)?
I, uh... Hey, isn't that Robert Mitchum over there? :slinks away:

2: Does using a bound item end a remains in play spell?
Bound Spells can be used by non-wizards. The item is effectively providing the power, and likely the procedure to cast the spell as well. It seems reasonable that the use of such items do not require the same level of concentration.

On the other hand, the character or model using a Bound Spell *does* count as the caster, so when using the Bound Spell the wizard is casting another spell.

It seems that "Yes, the Remains in Play spell is ended" is more in line with the rules and less dependent on applied fantastic relaism.

-T10

Nell2ThaIzzay
20-01-2006, 01:40
2: Does using a bound item end a remains in play spell?
Bound Spells can be used by non-wizards. The item is effectively providing the power, and likely the procedure to cast the spell as well. It seems reasonable that the use of such items do not require the same level of concentration.

On the other hand, the character or model using a Bound Spell *does* count as the caster, so when using the Bound Spell the wizard is casting another spell.

It seems that "Yes, the Remains in Play spell is ended" is more in line with the rules and less dependent on applied fantastic relaism.

-T10

To be fair, though, the wording on a Remains In Play spell is as such:

"Once it has been cast, the spell remains in play. It lasts until it is dispelled, or until the Wizard decides to end it (which he can do at any time), attempts to cast another spell, or is slain." -taken from Curse of Years ruling from Vampire Counts book

With a bound spell, you're not attempting to cast another spell, as the item itself contains all the power needed to cast the spell, as mentioned in most descriptions of the items. There are no power dice needed to cast the spell, it is automatic. And there is the fact that not all bound spells are arcane items, meaning that non-wizards could take them, and how could a non-wizard attempt to cast a spell?

I don't think it can be both ways. I don't think the item can cast the spell when it's in the hands of a Wraith, but when in the hands of a Necromancer, the Wizard himself counts as the caster.

If this came up in a game between my friends and I, I would argue that the Remains in Play spell would remain in play, as tho it may come from the caster of the Remains in Play spell, it is not him who is attempting to cast the spell. The power of the spell comes from the item itself, not from the Wizard using his knowledge of whatever art of magic you follow, to attempt to cast the spell.

Skaven-win
20-01-2006, 03:13
it's the item "casting" the spell, not the bearer. RIP spells stay.

no where in the rule book states that the bear counts as casting the spell from a bound item. Thus RIP stay in play, and are not ended.

T10
20-01-2006, 06:42
With a bound spell, you're not attempting to cast another spell, as the item itself contains all the power needed to cast the spell, as mentioned in most descriptions of the items.


Attributing the process of rolling casting dice to the game term "spell casting attempt" is perhaps stretching it too far. You will find that the word "attempt" is used in conjunction with a spell casting because though you commit the wizard to casting the spell, success is far from assured, even with the use of a bound item.

Player 1: I use the Book of Arkhan!
Player 2: I use a Dispel Scroll!
Player 1: Doh!

-T10

Nell2ThaIzzay
20-01-2006, 08:08
Attributing the process of rolling casting dice to the game term "spell casting attempt" is perhaps stretching it too far. You will find that the word "attempt" is used in conjunction with a spell casting because though you commit the wizard to casting the spell, success is far from assured, even with the use of a bound item.

Player 1: I use the Book of Arkhan!
Player 2: I use a Dispel Scroll!
Player 1: Doh!

-T10

Regardless, the spell is still coming from the Book of Arkhan, not from the bearer.

"No power is neccesary to cast the spell as the book provides all the power required"

I would see this as obvious that the spell casting comes from the Book itself, not from the bearer's arcane abilities. And this would be even further implied by the fact that not all bound spells are arcane items, therefore non-wizards can use them. And how could a non-wizard attempt to cast a spell when he has no magical powers of his own to attempt from?

Therefore, it would be apparent that the power for the spell comes from the item itself, and has nothing to do with who is holding it. The only purpose the character would provide would be for a pocket to hold the item it so it could do it's magic.

Festus
20-01-2006, 09:23
Hi

"No power is neccesary to cast the spell as the book provides all the power required"


Food for thought...

Festus

Major Defense
20-01-2006, 11:33
Food for thought...

Well if I learned anything from the uber-wheeling debate, I learned that you only have to read up until you are right.

"No power is neccesary to cast the spell as the book provides all the power required." :cheese:

EvC
20-01-2006, 15:41
I take it to mean that the wizard is casting a spell using the bound item. How is he expected to keep up the curse of years and read from a magic book at the same time? And this is coming from a VC/ magic-heavy High Elves player. I wouldn't try it.

Skaven-win
20-01-2006, 21:29
more fuel to the fire?

i was looking through a few books and when I got around to my Skaven I found this

Bands of Power power Lvl 4

"Once per magic phase, the user can cast the spell bound within the bracers."

So I went back and looked at the VC and a few others and they all say the spell is activated or unleashed, released. whatever the case may be.

So in the cast of the the Bands of Power the RIP spell would end.

So unless stated otherwise, items are considered activated, and do not consider the bear as the caster.


all in all. either wait for a FAQ, agree before the game on a ruling, or just deal withit.