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Fugazi
12-10-2009, 18:15
I enjoy all the fluff about the importance of progenoid glands (and significant importance of their recovery from fallen marines), but it seems like this can't be too common.

Progenoids mature (and are removed) 5 and 10 years after implementation. Because of the long lifespan of marines, I would guess the need to recover a gland from a casualty is not a common occurrence.

Am I forgetting something? Or is this about right?

Askil the Undecided
12-10-2009, 18:24
Wrong! I only heard of the Glands being removed before death a few months ago and even then only one gland is removed before death to prevent catastophic loss of genestock in the event of the loss of any particular storage facility.

Fugazi
12-10-2009, 18:28
According to Index Astartes I, the progenoid glands may be removed any time after maturity. Further, they may be stored indefinitely.

Has that changed?

Askil the Undecided
12-10-2009, 18:32
Oh of course not. It's a matter of ritual and tactical foresight rather than practical possibility.

Fugazi
12-10-2009, 18:37
It seems to me it'd be more practical to separate glands among several storage facilities, rather than store it in a body subjected to lascannon fire and warp terrors. But that's just me.

Argastes
12-10-2009, 18:56
For whatever reason, it isn't too uncommon for one or both progenoids to be left in the body of a Marine until after death. That's what an apothecary's "reductor"--that medical drill gizmo attached to their hand--is for.

precinctomega
12-10-2009, 19:48
Strictly speaking, the reductor is actually there to administer the "coup de grace" to a marine wounded beyond the ability to save him. The reductor "reduces" the marine to a corpse. Back in the day, it was originally called a carnifex ("maker of meat" or "butcher") before the nids got a hold of that term.

The background is inconsistent. In some chapters it appears that at least one progenoid may remain in the body until death, come what may (the Grey Knights, for example), whereas in others they may be removed at a convenient opportunity after maturation.

However, a hard-pressed chapter may never have enough "convenient opportunities" to remove mature progenoids; in others, the maturation rate may be slower, whilst in others the mortality rate in that 5-10 years window may be quite high.

Anyway, the apothecary will be bound to be busy enough.

R.

MajorWesJanson
12-10-2009, 21:15
The best option is for one to be removed and stored in a facility, and the other left in the marine until death or it is needed. That way if the marine and progenoid is lost, there are backups in storage. If the storage facility is lost, there are enough progenoids in the marines to keep going.

Marines Errant kept all of it in their chapter keep, and so when Huron took it, they lost it all.

guillimansknight
12-10-2009, 22:33
Can a marine produce multiples??

Have one mature, get removed and replaced.

Lord Malorne
12-10-2009, 22:40
There is one in the chest and one in the neck, the one in the neck is removed after 10 years if I remember right.

I got that from Index Astartes volume one, its great, if you can get a copy :p.

Fugazi
12-10-2009, 22:49
Can a marine produce multiples??

Have one mature, get removed and replaced.
No. There are only two. (presumably because of the timing and complexity of the implantation process)

Lord_Crull
12-10-2009, 23:25
I would say much of the hype about recovering geneseed from dead bodies is mostly dramatic storytelleing element.

guillimansknight
12-10-2009, 23:33
No. There are only two. (presumably because of the timing and complexity of the implantation process)

Hmm.... That does seem a little wierd.


You'd have thought it would be more efficent to replace removed ones so vets could keep contributing.

If that were the case Dante would have made 30,000

Arakanis
13-10-2009, 01:08
I always assumed the way it worked was the initial progenoid gland develops into the marines body becoming a part of his physiology, which then leads to the creation of two NEW progenoid glands. One in the neck and one in the chest.
The neck one would be removed for tithes and storage and the chest one would be left for safekeeping until death.

Argastes
13-10-2009, 01:21
Strictly speaking, the reductor is actually there to administer the "coup de grace" to a marine wounded beyond the ability to save him. The reductor "reduces" the marine to a corpse. Back in the day, it was originally called a carnifex ("maker of meat" or "butcher") before the nids got a hold of that term.

Hmm, maybe that's how it used to be in the RT days, but it is no longer the case. Since at least 2nd Edition, the Apothecary has used a gun, not his reductor, to finish off dying Marines. The 2nd Edition Ultramarines codex describes Apothecaries carrying "a heavy pistol" for this purpose. That gizmo on an apothecary's forearm, with the mini-chainsaw blade, is used for an entirely different purpose (extracting progenoid). So "strictly speaking", the reductor is NOT there to administer the coup de grace, thought maybe it used to be there for that.


Hmm.... That does seem a little wierd.

You'd have thought it would be more efficent to replace removed ones so vets could keep contributing.

If that were the case Dante would have made 30,000

Doesn't work like that. A single Marine's body can only ever yield two progenoids; just like all the other implants, they are implanted when he's an initiate and mature as his body does. You can't put another progenoid into his body later, after removing those initial two, and expect it to mature as the initial two did.


I always assumed the way it worked was the initial progenoid gland develops into the marines body becoming a part of his physiology, which then leads to the creation of two NEW progenoid glands. One in the neck and one in the chest.

Uhh, nope, that's not how it works. He is implanted with two progenoids during the process in which the rest of his Marine organs are also implanted. One in the neck and one in the chest. They mature after five and ten years respectively, whereupon they each contain one gene-seed for each organ implant (meaning each progenoid contains TWO progenoid gene-seeds.)

guillimansknight
13-10-2009, 02:20
Agarstes. I do no that it is only two.
I was just pointing out how insane the number of glands a chapter master or other really old marine could produce if that were the case
( if it were the case their would be billions of chapters)

Lothlanathorian
13-10-2009, 06:11
Was it something like the longer they are in there, the better they serve for producing geneseed and that is why they left the one in the chest as long as possible?

I am suffering OG Syndrome, so that may be something I read or something I thought would make sense.