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warwizard_99
19-01-2006, 19:57
Okay, did a search and read through the Warseer FAQ and didn't really see anything.

Was playing a game against High Elves, and my fanatics popped out and stopped just before, and just behind a unit of Dryads. He said that because the Dryads were skirmishers, they could avoid the fanatics, yet still move in a straight line towards me.

Is this correct? I couldn't find anything that countered his claim, so let him play it.

I know with normal units, they take damage when moving through fanatics, but do skirmishers?

Thank You.

Sylass
19-01-2006, 20:02
As long as you don't move any of the individual models of a skirmishing unit directly through a Fanatic (as in: touch it's base), the unit should be safe from taking damage.

T10
19-01-2006, 21:29
There are no provisions for a skirmishing unit "splitting", even temporary.

It seems reasonable that if the individual models can move to engage the enemy on the same side of the fanatic, then they would be able to avoid it. However, should the *unit* move over the fanatic, then they would suffer the hits as normal.

-T10

Crazy Harborc
19-01-2006, 21:55
I agree.............however. IF there is space/room all around, for the skirmishers to easily clear the whirling wacko's chained bowling ball.

I am glad that hasn't come up in a game I've watched/been in.

warwizard_99
19-01-2006, 22:26
It happened twice in this game...and I had the same thought. The models are moving as a unit, and I thought they should get hit as such. Everything else does, including flyers, so I didn't see how skirmishers should be immune.

MadJackMcJack
19-01-2006, 23:39
There is absolutly nothing to say skirmishers can do this in the fanatic rules. Therefore, this wood elf player is making this rule up. I recommend jamming every single one of his dryads up his nose, and then beating him to death with a rule book.

Baindread
20-01-2006, 00:06
T Therefore, this wood elf player is making this rule up. I recommend jamming every single one of his dryads up his nose,


Kinda painful since those buggers are all pointy :evilgrin:

archonbrujah
20-01-2006, 01:09
To make a comparison here, if a cannonball bounces through a dryad unit, how many models get hit? I believe every model the infinitely thin line goes through. So conversely, if the skirmishers can move around the fanatic without touching it, they wouldn't take any hits. However, when the fanatic moves, if he touches any member of the unit, the unit would take the prescribed number of hits, similar the the organ gun or a salamander, or even a magic missile spell.

I'm an Orc player, and I also have many armies with skirmishers. I doubt that you can reliably move the skirmish unit around the fanatic without leaving them in a potentially nasty situation for the next turn of fanatic goodness.

Archonbrujah

warwizard_99
20-01-2006, 03:19
So conversely, if the skirmishers can move around the fanatic without touching it, they wouldn't take any hits. However, when the fanatic moves, if he touches any member of the unit, the unit would take the prescribed number of hits, similar the the organ gun or a salamander, or even a magic missile spell.


That is, almost exactly, what he said.

mageith
20-01-2006, 06:11
There are no provisions for a skirmishing unit "splitting", even temporary.

Actually there are, but probably not voluntarily. (115)



It seems reasonable that if the individual models can move to engage the enemy on the same side of the fanatic,

Engaging (charging an enemy) is different. The questioner is only talking about moving, isn't he?

In fact, a merely moving unit CANNOT engage a fanatic. "Troops are not allowed to intentionally move into a fanatic what was released in a previous turn unless they are charging...[or] sometimes be forced to move into a Fanatic." OG 16.

Festus
20-01-2006, 09:28
Hi

In normal movement, the Skirmishers can indeed avoid the Fanatic (and must if at all possible!). Every skirmisher is moved as an individual model, and doesn't need to stay within distance during movement. In fact, the Skirmishers canot stay in coherency during movement, they even "must" split up during their own move.

This brings up another point:

A unit has to stop as soon as the Fanatic is released. If one Skirmisher triggers the fanatic, do the others remain where they are?

Greetings
Festus

speedygogo
20-01-2006, 11:03
Okay, did a search and read through the Warseer FAQ and didn't really see anything.

Was playing a game against High Elves, and my fanatics popped out and stopped just before, and just behind a unit of Dryads. He said that because the Dryads were skirmishers, they could avoid the fanatics, yet still move in a straight line towards me.

Is this correct? I couldn't find anything that countered his claim, so let him play it.

I know with normal units, they take damage when moving through fanatics, but do skirmishers?

Thank You.
I think that what your opponent did was BS. It is a blantant twist of the rules to negate a fanatic. Total crap in my opinion.

T10
20-01-2006, 11:30
Hi

A unit has to stop as soon as the Fanatic is released. If one Skirmisher triggers the fanatic, do the others remain where they are?

Greetings
Festus

I think it would be most appropriate to assume that the unit moves as one.

One way to resolve this: First move the closest model (or at least one of the closest) towards the unit with the fanatic. Once that model triggers the fanatic, move the rest of the models in the to the distance moved by the first model.

-T10

warwizard_99
20-01-2006, 19:13
But is there a rules basis for allowing skirmishers to avoid them, or are they hit just like any other unit. I'll draw a diagram and show you the positioning of the units, and how they skirted the fanatics. Both times, this was the positioning of the unit. T=trees/wood; D=Dryad; X=Fanatic. Both times, he would move his mvmt around the fanatic, while still moving forward. IMO, if he had moved to the side, there would be no argument, but he moved each model around the fanatic and then placed them back 3 wide. There was no los of mvmt for going 'around' the Fanatic, and he did not take hits for moving through it...


TTT----X
TTT DDD
TTT DDD
TTT DDD
TTT--X

Da GoBBo
20-01-2006, 19:14
This brings up another point:

A unit has to stop as soon as the Fanatic is released. If one Skirmisher triggers the fanatic, do the others remain where they are?


i think it doesn't really matter. A fanatic hits a unit, wheter it is split up in a bizar fashion or not. But in order to keep things as tidy as we can, i'd go along with mista 10.

About the original question. I think festus is right. A group of squirmishers should be able to avoid the fanatic, let it pass through. This can be represented by allowing them to move around a fanatic in their own m.phase, and having them squashed during the orcses turn.
BTW, Mageith is right of course when he says this doesn't count for charging. When charging the models move in a streight line, and can thus encounter the fanatic.

Ganymede
20-01-2006, 19:42
do enemy models need to stay outside of 1" from fanatics when they aren't charging?

Festus
20-01-2006, 20:11
Hi

do enemy models need to stay outside of 1" from fanatics when they aren't charging?

Yes, you have to keep your troops at least 1" away from enemy models.

Greetings
Festus

warwizard_99
20-01-2006, 22:41
none of that happened. For all intent and purpose, he moved up 5", in a straight line, saying they skirmished around the Fanatic. If he had snaked his models around it or something, i could understand that, if you take into consideration the 1" rule...

Festus
21-01-2006, 07:20
Hi

This seems reasonable, as this at least leaves 3" of the Skirmishers move to avoid the Fanatic.
He could've taken and measured the long way around the fanatic, butthis would've been the same result.

Greetings
Festus

Sambojin
26-01-2006, 05:14
Errrm, they cant skirmish over a fanatic. A fanatic has a 10mm diameter, plus the minimum 1" movement away from enemies unless you're engaging them, means that you'll have to go more then the up to 1" apart that skirmishers are allowed( about 2 2/5 inches apart in fact). They could snake around the side of it, but they couldnt skirmish over it (ie models on either side of the fanatic). If they charged, they would most likely be hit, as charges are in straigh lines with one wheel allowed (not sure how the wheel affects skirmishers though).

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-01-2006, 08:51
But you can have one model go around it to one side, and one model to around it to the other side, as long as they end up in proper coherency.

T10
26-01-2006, 08:57
There are no provisions in for skirmishers breaking and re-establishing "squad coherency" in this manner. It's one of those grey areas.

-T10

WLBjork
26-01-2006, 09:25
A unit has to stop as soon as the Fanatic is released. If one Skirmisher triggers the fanatic, do the others remain where they are?


Don't think so - Warhammer is a game of units. So, if one model in a unit moves, the entire unit has to move with it.

As for the "splitting" of skirmishers, it is my opinion that they must always remain no more than 1" away from each other even when moving.

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-01-2006, 11:08
Yeah, but how do you do that in a practical way when physically moving the models? I'm quite sure I could shuffle the models around so that I could go around the fanatic and still retain a 1" coherency.

Festus
26-01-2006, 12:51
Hi

As for the "splitting" of skirmishers, it is my opinion that they must always remain no more than 1" away from each other even when moving.
Your opinion is wrong, as every skirmisher is moved individually.

Greetings
Festus

Bjoernes
26-01-2006, 14:45
Hi!

I have some additional questiones: If a skirmishing unit triggers the fanatic, how many hits does the unit sustain? D6? Or maybe as many models as the fanatics line of movement comes in contact with? If so, how many hits does each model he comes into contact with take? One? Or maybe D6?

Hmmmm I think this requires a nutcracker of big caliber:p

mageith
26-01-2006, 14:58
There are no provisions in for skirmishers breaking and re-establishing "squad coherency" in this manner. It's one of those grey areas.

-T10
It's not that gray and there are several provisions for this:

They break squad coherency every time they move. The first model moves, say 8 inches and the rest then are moved to catch up. At the end of the move they are supposed to back close together.

But "Should the group be split as a result of casualties, or should individuals become divided from it for some reason, the player must rectify this in his next Movement phase." (115)

They is a gray area when it comes to releasing fanatics at a moving skirmishing unitm but that's not the question at hand.

Ith

Festus
26-01-2006, 19:19
Hi

I have some additional questiones: If a skirmishing unit triggers the fanatic, how many hits does the unit sustain? D6? Or maybe as many models as the fanatics line of movement comes in contact with? If so, how many hits does each model he comes into contact with take? One? Or maybe D6?

Hmmmm I think this requires a nutcracker of big caliber:p

Easy: They will get the same amount of hits as every other unit (depending on the Fanatic used and the use of certain mushrooms...)

Greetings
Festus

Bjoernes
27-01-2006, 08:06
Easy: They will get the same amount of hits as every other unit (depending on the Fanatic used and the use of certain mushrooms...)

I certainly agree with you... It was just that acording to some of the things written previously in this thread it would not have been so easy and straghitforward:angel:

Greetings