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View Full Version : Modeling Smoke but not Taking it, is it "Legit"



FireN.Brimstone
19-01-2006, 20:42
I tend to fill out extra points in my list with Smoke. This means at one point level I might not have it and at another I would. The problem with this is of coarse that in order to take smoke I should model it for WYSIWYG.

This razes the question, how much of a no-no is it to model smoke on say a Dreadnaught or Predator if the vehicle doesn't have it in game?

NakedFisherman
19-01-2006, 21:00
I play WYSIWYG. Always. I don't think I've ever not played that way.

scwolf
19-01-2006, 21:03
How are you modeling it? Are we talking tanks wrapped in cotton batting that's been spraypainted grey? Or are we talking about the little launcher bitz that, if your opponent points out said bit in the middle of the game and asks "Hey, does that tank have smoke launchers?" you can always reply "It's got a lanucher, but I didn't spend the points to load it with smoke canisters this game."

FireN.Brimstone
19-01-2006, 21:13
I play WYSIWYG. Always. I don't think I've ever not played that way.

Ummm, does that mean you'd take offense if I put smoke launchers on my vehicles if I didn't pay the points for them (and obviously didn’t use them)?


How are you modeling it?

Nothing fancy just the 3 pronged smoke grenade launchers that come with like every Imperial Kit.

NakedFisherman
19-01-2006, 21:50
I probably wouldn't care. I'd prefer you to have stuff WYSIWYG, but I don't think I've ever played against someone who had their army that way. Most people don't even have painted armies around here.

Lokirius
19-01-2006, 22:04
WYSIWYG has it limitations. If I'm facing a marine tac squad with a flamer and when he's 24 inches away reveals that it's a plasma gun I will be irked. It suddenly changes how I view this squad and forces me to reasses threat levels which I should have been able to see from the get go, and most importantly there's not really any excuse to not have a plasma gunner lying around.

Vehicle upgrades are a different matter. If you glued a hunter killer to a rhino cause you love the model and usually use it, and one day find that you're 15 points over, it's ludicrous to say that you can't use that model. In that case, you would just tell your opponent beforehand that it's not there. With special weapons, you can easily have the right model, and its not unreasonable to have 4 or 5 different vet sarges on hand, so when you use a power fist it actually has a power fist on the model. But once again, vehicles are a slightly different matter. Go with what you have, but whenever WYSIWYG is violated just tell your opponent at the start. If they care and it's minor, they're porbably not much fun to game with to begin with.

Eulenspiegel
19-01-2006, 22:13
Not letting you use a vehicle because it has Smoke Launchers modelled on it because you didnīt spend the 3points is just about as anal as you can get.
WYSIWYG has its extremes, and this is one of the least important I can think of :)

blood angel
19-01-2006, 22:35
I don't see any problem with tricking out your vehicles with as many accessories as you want. I know tons of vehicles get modeled with Dozer blades, hunter killers, heavy stubbers and on and on and on that never make it to the army roster.

In short, you're in the clear! (except for when you pop smoke :) )

Cerebus
20-01-2006, 00:31
Every single definition of WYSIWYG I have seen for tournaments has been stated something like this:

"if a model is armed with an item, it must be shown on the figure."

Never have I seen it stated that all equipment shown on the model must be purchased for that particular model.

Sam
20-01-2006, 01:43
I wouldn’t have a problem with it. You can’t take things to the extreme or you bog down the game considerably and become one of those people no one wants to play with. For instance, if you were to play WYSIWYG without any exceptions then how many times would you have to pay to give Sgt’s terminator honors to then give the rest of the squad members terminator honors so they can purchase purity seals from the wargear list? Most of the plastic SM have purity seals already molded on to them. What about tactical squads, they can’t even purchase terminator honors for anyone except the sgt. Should player file off the purity seals that are already in place?

I think WYISWYG works well for tournaments with room for the above mentioned cases. It doesn’t bother me in casual gaming as long as everything is declared before the game starts. Anyways, I think it is nice to mix your army up a little for a different style of play without going through the motions of building a new army.

One thing I have done for tournaments is all my dreadnoughts and tanks have the arms/turrets loose so I can switch them out at will.

devolutionary
20-01-2006, 02:17
Every single definition of WYSIWYG I have seen for tournaments has been stated something like this:

"if a model is armed with an item, it must be shown on the figure."

Never have I seen it stated that all equipment shown on the model must be purchased for that particular model.

Oh that's weak dude. If I saw some squad coming at me with combi-plasmas, I will be expecting to face combi-plasmas, not bolters.

WYSIWYG is What you SEE is what you GET. If I see combi-plasmas, I get combi-plasmas.

Saying that, if someone didnt want to use the smoke, all they have to do is say "These are not being used" and I'll let it slide, just like I would if someone said "These are bolters, not combi-plasmas". Misinformation pisses me off though.

LostTemplar
20-01-2006, 02:44
Generally, wysiwyg woudl apply. the SGL's aren't that big of a detail to be bothered about not putting them on. Afterall, they'd only two sets of three tubes.

Hell, ye can just put one and it'll still be perfectly legal.

But i'd frown a bit on using them, but nto havign them moddeled. but not the other way around.

Bookwrak
20-01-2006, 04:15
Because in my early days of playing IG, I assembled all my tanks, without leaving me recourse of changing weapons and options without tearing them apart. So that I could use them in various roles, without having to tear the models apart, or buy more tanks, I made signs to hang on them, so that they'd meet WYSIWYG. If my tanks aren't carrying sponsoons that day, the exisiting ones each get to wear 'Out of Order." My demolisher's sponsoons occasionaly wear, "Hi! I'm a Melta!" That's how my Chimera's sometimes pop back and forth too.

Steven Tarise
20-01-2006, 10:38
I'd stick them on and when you're not using them in your list, just point out to your opponent that you forgot to reload them after the last battle :p

Ubik_Lives
20-01-2006, 11:31
Every single definition of WYSIWYG I have seen for tournaments has been stated something like this:

"if a model is armed with an item, it must be shown on the figure."

Never have I seen it stated that all equipment shown on the model must be purchased for that particular model.

The GTs I've been to have stated that if the model has wargear or weapons on it, then those must be purchased for it. It's core to WYSIWYG that everything you see on the model is exactly what it has.

UrbanKnight
20-01-2006, 12:16
I just use those rare earth magnets to stick upgrades on. Then if they arent on, I just take em off. perfect WYSIWYG everytime. and no confusion

Dread Lime
20-01-2006, 14:43
Well over 90% of the models in my armies are converted, and in some cases I've built alternate models to represent certain units. I have a reputation at the local FGLS as a modeler, so most folks don't complain about things done strictly for apearance. Just to give a couple of examples, there are smoke launchers on my tanks because they look good. They serve no in-game function whatsoever. My possessed units have daemonic talons represented as power fists. One of the hammerheads in my Tau army is represented by a converted Leman Russ. Everything that should be on a hammerhead is there, I just chose to use an alterate model.

I also have a chart that states what all the counts-as and apearance only items are for each of my armies. So far noone's asked to see them, but I keep the charts handy as a courtesy.

Phyros
20-01-2006, 14:52
I see no problem with it......I'm not going to flag down a judge to complain about him modeling smoke launchers and then NOT using them.

"Mr. Judge....I demand that he fire his smoke and make it harder for me to destroy his vehicle!!"

EVIL INC
20-01-2006, 14:53
Something as little as smoke launchers, your opponant would have to be a little on the nitpicky side if they didnt let you use it in frandly games. Would actually make me wonder if they werent just in order to gain some sort of advantage to compensate for inadequit (I cant spell for crap) tactical skills. Now in something official like a tourny, I can see where people would be nitpicky.
Why not just glue the launcher to a flat cardstock "base" and paint it the same as the tank? That way, you can just set it on top of the tank when you use it and remove it when you arent. You could do the same with the hunter killer missile and it would look nice and be sturdy enough to not fall off. Many people use magnets.

mattjgilbert
20-01-2006, 14:57
The GTs I've been to have stated that if the model has wargear or weapons on it, then those must be purchased for it. It's core to WYSIWYG that everything you see on the model is exactly what it has.
Which is great if you have like a million to spend of every single combination of modelling options. I think a little leeway is required. Nothing should be way-off beam but the odd thing here and there is fine so long as your opponent is FULLY informed of what is what before the game all should be fine.

Cheitan Shadowless
20-01-2006, 15:33
In my opinion, I don't mind facing a model that has things it doesn't really have, as long as it has what it's supposed to have. That Missile Launcher Marine can have as many Plasma Guns stuck to him as he wants, as long as he still has his Missile Launcher with 'im. Naturally, I do prefer my opponent to explain any such bizarre little modifications before the battle, and in my experience, they usually do. :)