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Azazel
20-01-2006, 00:28
Am I the only Forest-Spirit who has trouble with Daemonic Legions of Khorne? Especially the Bloodthirster who tends to go to town on my army like a lumber jack gone mad.

My housemates army typically consists of:

4 large units of Bloodletters.
1 Daemonic Chariot of Khorne.
3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne.
Assorted Daemonic heros (forget their name, not the Exaulted Daemons).

As if this wasnt bad enough the Bloodthirster cuts my Treeman Ancient down in one or two rounds of combat. Then gets pretty much free reign over the battlefeild.

Has anyone found some gimmic or strategy that could tip the balance in my favour? Or are my Forest-Spirits doomed to accept defeat whenever the Bloodthirster makes a show?

Naghaz
20-01-2006, 03:24
I suppose I (we) could be of better help if we also knew the composition of your army. Khorne is obviously nasty in hand to hand so the way to win for WE's is simply to stay out of hand to hand. Force some charges with baiting, hit back harder. Also the ward save, while good, can't stand up to lots and lots and lots of archery. Make sure you have a couple solid units of Glade Guard (the strongest unit in the book in my opinion) they are simply awesome.

Continue to litter the enemy with arrows and move out of engagement range. The Bloodthirster should be a priority target and creatures such as he are the reason I take Annoyance of Nettlings. It will help you survive a round and out flank/outnumber him. Bloodthirsters are nasty to be sure, but the treeman backed by wardancers or similar can take him out fairly well.

Lets see your list then :)

scatterlaser
20-01-2006, 05:27
Random thoughts (I'm assuming you have an all-Forest Spirit army here, which makes things slightly trickier):

- Put the Annoyance of Netlings on the Treeman Ancient and challenge the Bloodthirster. It most won't be able to refuse (unless there are some Heralds, Bloodletter champions or other characters in combat as well), and only hitting on 6s makes it far, far less dangerous. You'd be about even on wounds (1-ish per turn each), so if you flanked the Bloodthirster with even 5 Dryads you'd be winning by 2 (flank and outnumber).

- Exploit the fact that Khornate Daemonic Heralds on foot are Frenzied and M6, while Bloodletters are only M4. Stand anything 9-12" away from a unit of Bloodletters with a Herald in it, and the Herald will be forced to charge while the Bloodletters sit there and look surly. A unit of Dryads should at least hold the Herald up (if the general's nearby, anyway), while Treekin or a Treeman will probably mash the thing. Most Khornate Daemonic Legion players probably know about that trick, but it's worth remembering.

- Get things stuck in or behind some trees. Bloodletters in a forest are moving 2" a turn; Bloodcrushers go 3.5". You could use bait units (ie small units of Dryads) to get them into the trees, Treesing the forests in front of the daemons or both. Once they're in difficult terrain, they take quite a while to get out, and as a bonus you can bludgeon them with S5 hits from Treesinging while they're in there.

- Take advantage of Frenzy in general. A small unit of 8 Dryads is only 96pts, and it's probably worth sacrificing one or two of them if it keeps a steamroller unit of Bloodcrushers off on the flank for a few turns, or suckers a Bloodthirster into a positon where it can be bashed by half your army at once.

speedygogo
20-01-2006, 05:57
Take advantage of your shooting phase. The hail doom arrow is a good idea I would also keep troops within the forest. The bloodthirster flys and if troops are 2 inches into the woods and in los of the bloodthirster, 20 inches away he has to charge because of frenzy. But a flying character cannot fly into a forest so he would fail his charge because he would has to move at his foot movement. Then you could set up a gamewinning counter-charge. You can use this tactic to destroy frenzied chariots also as frenzy troops charge when the target is in LOS and range. No where in the rules does it say they take into account difficult terrain. If they are in charge range and has LOS they have to charge. A khorne demon army is one that you should be able to beat with woodies.

Neknoh
20-01-2006, 09:21
However, remember that although the Bloodthirster is Flying and Frenzied, it is also a large target, so it can see and thus charge past intervening unit directly into backup lines or past fast cav. and the like.

Frenzy does not force you to charge the nearest model, THAT is what makes the Bloodthirster so dangerous.

Speedygogo, you must also remember hat he is fielding a Forrest Spirit army, not a WE with FS.

The advices from Scatterlaser is probably the best ones, especially seeing as you don't target any unit with Treesinging, this means he will have 2 dispell dice to dispell Treesinging with, cast it twice and he's smushed

speedygogo
20-01-2006, 09:46
You are right about the shooting tactics. Cheap units that could flee would do wonders for stratagy against a Khorne legion but forrest spirits cannot run. Wild riders would be benificial though and maybe help pop some units of daemons.

Azazel
20-01-2006, 13:00
Thanks for the tips guys. Scatterlaser especially. :)

Yak
20-01-2006, 13:33
Eagles, eagles, eagles. Nothing better for drawing charges. As for the bloodthirster, see here (http://www.woodelves.org/Asrai/viewtopic.php?t=439) for a discussion on it.

Odin
20-01-2006, 13:44
Your opponent's army sounds very similar to one of my opponents'. I've only played against them once, and got a bit lucky against the 'thirster - he managed to charge my dryads, and my Branchwraith (with Annoyance) issued a challenge. Bloodthirster failed to hit, as did the Branchwraith, but I outnumbered him and he failed his instability test and went POP!

Because the 'thirster is a large target, all models can see him, even rear ranks of archer units. So your Glade Guard can maneouvre wherever they want and all still be able to target the 'thirster, you don't need to stay on hills or in one long line. You could even go mad and have big ranked-up units of Glade Guard - might be worth a go!

Khornate Daemonic Legion are one of the hardest armies for Wood Elves to actually kill. We can draw them all over the battlefield with flyers, skirmishers and fast cav, but actually killing the big things like the chariot and 'thirster is a lot harder. The Bloodthirsters drop like flies to concentrated bowfire though - gets rid of their only source of rank bonuses at least.

Old Bear
20-01-2006, 16:39
Nothing in a forest spirit army can flee. Dryads, treekin, treemen, wildriders and glamourweave casters are all immune to psychology.

MB

Naghaz
20-01-2006, 20:54
Nothing in a forest spirit army can flee. Dryads, treekin, treemen, wildriders and glamourweave casters are all immune to psychology.

MB


Which of course is why the very first question I asked is, "whats in your army" as any and all advice, or at least good advice, rests soley upon the units involved. I know the OP states he's a forest spirit more than once, but so do my wood elves and they are a mixed army. If you are fielding an all tree spirit force, use scatters advice and sacrifice some Dryads. Annoyance on the Ancient will help him immensley with the Thirster and make sure you have a unit or two to help him out (I suggest Dryads over Treekin here but either should do).

Azazel
20-01-2006, 22:15
My force is all Forest Spirits. Dryads, Treekin, Branchwraiths and Treemen are the only units I use. Maybe Ill have to implement more diversity to stand a better chance.

HiredSword.
21-01-2006, 11:32
As Yak said, Eagles, Eagles, Eagles. Place them behind the enemy to slow marching.

If you have a problem fitting them into your army there are of course other ways to win, so don't think you have change your fluffy composition to suit it. Of course, you could always model the eagles as a cluster of sprites which i think would look pretty good.