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outbreak
16-10-2009, 03:20
I usually play tomb kings so have gone with other peoples rulings on this but have come across conflicting reports of the stand and shoot rule now.
If a unit stands and shoots do they still get to attack in the combat phase or is their shooting response it, so they shoot, then get attacked by the chargers, then combat resolution is done. Can someone point out where it states what they can do after shooting in the book as i couldn't find a rule saying they can't attack back? (was on a 2v2 game and my ally thought they couldn't attack back whereas both on the other side thought they could, i gave it to them because i couldn't find anything stating otherwise and don't like breaking the flow of the game)

athamas
16-10-2009, 03:27
stand and shoot is your reaction to charging...

dont have the book at hand, but the order is

charge declared,
you declare stand and shoot,
shoot,
they test for panic if needed,
moved into combat,
they attack [usually as they charged]
you respond [unless ASF or simular in effect]
combat result is calculated on the wounds caused in combat only

the main point to stand and shoot is to remove a few people, idealy causing them to lose a ran bonus or to remove enough that you now have outnumber...

hope that helps

outbreak
16-10-2009, 03:36
That's the way i'd played it before but i wasn't 100% when my ally started saying it didn't work that way.

DarkAngelsG
16-10-2009, 04:20
Just a note, you DO shoot right after the charge is declared and all psychology tests are taken. And you cannot stand and shoot if your opponent is charging from over half range.

Dark Apostle197
16-10-2009, 04:28
Actually your opponent has to be charging from over half range to be able to stand and shoot.

Necromancy Black
16-10-2009, 05:58
And you don't shoot right after the charge is decalred, you shoot the moment the enemy is in range (which may or may not be immediatly). The enemy basically stops once they have come into range of every model shooting, then you shoot them. This means you don't get to wait until they are in short range before shooting (though they may or may not be in short range anyways)

AndrewGPaul
16-10-2009, 07:56
Just a note, you DO shoot right after the charge is declared and all psychology tests are taken. And you cannot stand and shoot if your opponent is charging from over half range.


Actually your opponent has to be charging from over half range to be able to stand and shoot.

note that the "half range" in this case is the charging unit's carge range, not the shooting unit's range.

WLBjork
16-10-2009, 08:04
This means you don't get to wait until they are in short range before shooting (though they may or may not be in short range anyways)

Although certain combinations of weapons may allow this - Champion/Character with pistol accompanying troops with 16"+ range missile weapons, for example.


Also remember that - unlike psychology - Stand & Shoot takes effect even in the event that the charge would fail.

outbreak
16-10-2009, 08:46
Yulp i know all the other rules for it there was just no decided line saying explicitly if you could or couldn't attack so some people argued both ways.

Artinam
16-10-2009, 09:33
Keep in mind that Tomb Kings cannot stand and shoot, check the Undead rules, they can only use the 'Hold' charge reaction.

For the rest the stand and shoot is resolved as above.

outbreak
16-10-2009, 09:48
thanks as i said in the first post though i've never read that rule too thouroughly as i play tomb kings meaning i don't stand and shoot.

Artinam
16-10-2009, 10:25
Ah.. sorry misread that :) I have met a few Tomb King players (usually younger ones) that do try to do this.

Paraelix
17-10-2009, 05:51
SIDE NOTE- Stand and Shoot is carried out on the unit a Character is charging out of...? Unless the unit wouldn't be in range?

rtunian
17-10-2009, 13:55
SIDE NOTE- Stand and Shoot is carried out on the unit a Character is charging out of...? Unless the unit wouldn't be in range?

if the unit doesn't charge, why would you have to make a charge reaction against it? it doesn't trigger a charge reaction if it doesn't charge.

the character is the only thing that's charging, and so it's the only thing that triggers a charge reaction. leaving the unit to charge means that you leave the unit... i know it sounds silly to word it that way, but it's to prove a point. see also page 73, bottom right paragraph

"however if the unit he is with does not declare a charge, a character may declare a separate charge of his own and therefore leaves the unit when he charges out of it"

Nurgling Chieftain
17-10-2009, 21:31
Wait, what? That doesn't seem relevant to Paraelix's question.

Anyway, yes, Paraelix, per the BRB FAQ #2, if a character charges out of a unit at some archers, and the archers S&S, they target the unit he's in, rather than just the character. The FAQ doesn't say anything about the case where the unit the character is charging out of isn't in shooting range. I think the assumption that the character gets shot is reasonable in that case, as the S&S doesn't occur until the character is no longer in the unit.

rtunian
17-10-2009, 23:17
Wait, what? That doesn't seem relevant to Paraelix's question.

what do you mean irrelevant? he asked if the unit stand and shoots at the other unit or at the char. i said at the char and cited the brb.

of course, as you pointed out i was wrong, as the 2nd faq does address this exact question... seems contradictory to me, but them's the breaks

Nurgling Chieftain
17-10-2009, 23:21
I think I was just confused because I'm not used to you being wrong. :p

WLBjork
18-10-2009, 07:58
Of course, it also depends on the range you shoot at - if the unit is out of shooting range when the character charges, then said character is looking at a face full of missiles.

rtunian
18-10-2009, 13:56
I think I was just confused because I'm not used to you being wrong. :p

heh well that'll happen sometimes :)
gotta be on your toes!!