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Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 10:46
Hey folk and cattle (old Norwegian expression, no insults intended),

I've decided that I want to learn how to sculpt miniatures. That is, I've read a number of tutorials, had two years at an art school (with a fair share of sculpting with clay) and I've finally come to work with it.

The plan is to get busy with it and hopefully get some good results in the end. Meanwhile, while I'm am stressing about and suffering with my projects, I thought the WarSeer community might enjoy watching the progress of my work and perhaps be inspired in one way or another.

So, the first mini of all is about 7 cm (that's 2,75 inches, roughly) tall at the moment. It's nothing but armature and a green ball (which will be the head) for now, but over the week, I'll make it better... Hopefully.

Here's a pic of what I've done so far:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image006.jpg

It's obviously WIP and I'm going to let the "head" cure before I continue with it.

The armature is made out of copper wire, which I got a whole spool of. The ball is obviously greenstuff, which I've made into a ball by 'stroking' it with both of my palms. I'm working with vinyl gloves on, which the greenstuff has a tendency to stick to, but you can avoid that with lubrication (water, in my case).

So far, I've had no sketches to go after or any sort of mental image. It's scratch in its extreme. But it's for the purposes of learning how to work with GS that I do it like that. Most likely, I'll do sketches for every subsequent miniature I'll ever make. So, even if the first one might look odd in terms of proportions and so on, I'm doing this with the goal of making good textures on it and hopefully manage to make it look a bit doable.

C&C is welcome.

Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 12:02
On a note to any moderator which might read the thread, could I have it moved to Project Logs sub-forum? I didn't notice it until after I'd posted the thread. Doh!

Rabid Bunny 666
20-01-2006, 12:21
goodgood, i'll find a linky for you to help, has done diddly for my skills, but i'm lazy :)

found here (http://www.thelastalliance.com/index.php?pid=article&articlefilename=conversionebobsculpting&catid=10&subid=72&artilceid=209), here (http://www.thelastalliance.com/index.php?pid=disparticle&catid=10&subid=72&artilceid=1317), here (http://www.thelastalliance.com/index.php?pid=article&articlefilename=conversionadvancedsculpting&catid=10&subid=72&artilceid=277) and here (http://www.thelastalliance.com/index.php?pid=article&articlefilename=conversionspullingfaces&catid=10&subid=72&artilceid=251)

there is also an article on the UK GW website, here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/convershunklinic/green-stuff/1/)

Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 12:34
Thanks for the links, rabid! :)

tzeentchgiant
20-01-2006, 16:36
I'd say try to get something down on paper, if nothing else to get proportions right, it doesn't need to be strictly the type of model you want to make, but with at least the pose correct you'll progress a lot faster and make fewer mistakes.

Not much else to comment on now, any plans at all for what it's going to be, male/female human/non human?

Really I'd be considering those things to start with.

Good luck

TG

Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 16:48
I'd say try to get something down on paper, if nothing else to get proportions right, it doesn't need to be strictly the type of model you want to make, but with at least the pose correct you'll progress a lot faster and make fewer mistakes.

As mentioned in the previous thread, I'm not really concerned about proportions for this time. Anyway, I learned to draw without having to "draw the armature" in art school, so my intution for proportions is somewhat reliable.




Not much else to comment on now, any plans at all for what it's going to be, male/female human/non human?


It's supposed to be a guy in the end, but I'll see on that one. I'm really just after some texture training on this mini.



Really I'd be considering those things to start with.


I usually do (having done so countless of times on several drawings at school). And I most definately will in the later minis I'll make.

Cheers,

Syb

speedygogo
20-01-2006, 18:00
Well, have fun with the process. I find that concept art and music help alot with mini making. The more you do it the better you will get and having themes helps alot. Also making deadlines has proved to be invaluable to me. Lots of great ideas start and don't get completed because of procrastination. Sculpting is very different than drawing. Just because you can draw doesn't mean you can sculpt or vice versa. So be patient and with practice you'll get results that you will be pleased with.

Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 18:38
Sculpting is very different than drawing. Just because you can draw doesn't mean you can sculpt or vice versa. So be patient and with practice you'll get results that you will be pleased with.

I know as much. But do remember that I learned to draw, and I guess the learning process isn't to far from the same tree (trial & error 'til you choke on it :p ). But patience is my virtue, so I'm enthusiastic about it all.

Cheers,

Syb

Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 19:50
After having let the 'ballhead' cure, I continued my work on it. I decided to not use those stupid vinyl gloves (sticks to the GS and is generally annoying to work with - my hands don't irritate to GS anyway). I bought some new tools just after having made the head, so I continued to use these. I was quite satisfied with what I did so far.

Here's what I got so far:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image014.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image015.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image016.jpg

More in the next post! ->

Sybaronde
20-01-2006, 19:51
What I did was to make the mini's jaw, nose and brow. I then continued to make a partial neck:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image017.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image018.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image019.jpg

That's it for tonight, though. Tomorrow I'll start working on the torso and maybe even the legs.

Edit: I do realize the camera quality is absultely horrible. I'll try to borrow my dad's digicam and make pictures with that one instead.

Cheers,

Syb

Eisenhorn
20-01-2006, 23:26
nice thread im planning on doing some sculpting too in near future.:rolleyes:

Ill ask you in norewgian:
Hvor kjpte du model verkty? Jeg har lett over alt men kan ikke finne noe. Bortsett fra p nettet.

Well back to english. :rolleyes: Looks like you got your self a face there good work. Im looking forward to read more about your sculpting. Keep up the good work.

FearFrost
20-01-2006, 23:59
By the head size, that looks like it is going to end up as a very stocky humanoid, based on the armature. Looks good so far, though. Scultping is frickin tough, the only stuff I have ever seriously scratch sculpted was some surreal figures for school, and those didnt have to have perfect proportions or realism ;)

Good luck!

-B

speedygogo
21-01-2006, 01:08
Off to a good start so far. I think the head is looking good and look forward to seeing the rest of the mini.

notdakuningist
21-01-2006, 04:44
Great start. What kind of sculpting projects are you looking to do in the future?

Sybaronde
21-01-2006, 10:04
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Makes me all warm and fuzzy on the inside. :angel: :D


nice thread im planning on doing some sculpting too in near future.

Ill ask you in norewgian:
Hvor kjpte du model verkty? Jeg har lett over alt men kan ikke finne noe. Bortsett fra p nettet.

Well back to english. Looks like you got your self a face there good work. Im looking forward to read more about your sculpting. Keep up the good work.

Uh, I got the tools from a shop in Bergen called "Hobbykjelleren". They weren't actually meant for sculpting, as they're actually leatherworking tools. You can find such stuff in stores where they sell textiles and leathersupplies too. Otherwise, you could try looking in general hobby stores where they sell clay. There's usually some tools there which are usefull, but the ones I got needed filing before I could work with them. Tell you what! I'll post a picture of them later today! ;)


By the head size, that looks like it is going to end up as a very stocky humanoid, based on the armature. Looks good so far, though. Scultping is frickin tough, the only stuff I have ever seriously scratch sculpted was some surreal figures for school, and those didnt have to have perfect proportions or realism

Yes, by the rule of 8 heads, he should be 12 centimeters (4,80 inches) in length, so I might consider to extend the armature. Otherwise, I might as well excuse myself and say "hey, it's the first time I'm doing this!". I'll see about it though. I also did some quite surreal sculpts at school, like a gaunt Tau head in clay and a very dubious chips bowl (which no-one have ever used since its creation! :cries: ).


Off to a good start so far. I think the head is looking good and look forward to seeing the rest of the mini.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to working on the torso today.


What kind of sculpting projects are you looking to do in the future?

Well, I have this far-fetched dream about starting out my own games studio, but that is in the "way off" dreambag. In my "near future" dreambag I'm thinking of doing a range of miniatures from a science fiction universe I've created roughly seven years ago, so hopefully we'll be able to see stuff like three-legged aliens and sci-fi'esque humans in armour wielding bladed 'Endgiver' staves (which of course can shoot lasers). Though, either of the dreambags will have to wait until the current mini is done.

On a side-note, I'm also going to make some scenic bases which I might be able to mass produce and sell.

Until later today!

Syb

Rokkitz
21-01-2006, 10:18
Nice project! It is always fun to follow something like this from the start. I myself is in a very similar situation as you. I have done quite a lot of detailing with green stuff, but would like to try my hands on a full sculpt. But still, it scares me haha.. I guess I will wait and see what you can produce, then learn from your mistakes :D

I wish you all the best.

Sybaronde
21-01-2006, 10:25
Nice project! It is always fun to follow something like this from the start. I myself is in a very similar situation as you. I have done quite a lot of detailing with green stuff, but would like to try my hands on a full sculpt. But still, it scares me haha.. I guess I will wait and see what you can produce, then learn from your mistakes :D

I wish you all the best.

Thing is, I haven't done that much detailing with GS. I've worked alot with textures on things like paper, cardboard, different acrylic paints (which is nightmare on earth) and plaster. So I'll see how it goes. But I invite you to learn from my mistakes! :D It's what I made the thread for!

Cheers,

Syb

P.S: I noticed that I perhaps shouldn't have let the ballhead cure. It gave me some trouble when working with the 'eye-pits', as I dug through all the uncured GS and hit cured bottom. Makes me wonder how the details will work out, but hopefully it'll be fine.

Sybaronde
21-01-2006, 13:10
Hey again,

I've started working on the torso's core now and boy did I learn some stuff:


When working with the green and you need to support it against something, so that you can shape it without actually warping the entire model, place it against something like a plastic bag (lubricate!). Alternatively, you can use your hands, but wear gloves, so that there is only a minor fingerprint effect.
Using your fingers to shape with is perfectly okay, and is really useful too. Just be sure to have gloves on, and the moment you feel that the GS isn't shaping itself smoothly, slowly part with it and re-lubricate (trust me, be paranoid with this).
When using tools to shape GS, be careful to keep it lubricated. If you don't, you may get tiny wafer edges (as a result of the GS being stretched out) and you might even let the tool slip and propel off at high speed (which can damage other things).
One of my tools has a ball-point end, which is really useful for smoothing out surfaces. Be careful with this though, because if you apply too much pressure you'll make unwanted grooves.


Here's some pics of my tools:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image024.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image025.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image026.jpg

Next post: More pictures!

Sybaronde
21-01-2006, 13:13
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image020.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image021.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image022.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image023.jpg

I'm still pretty confident with my progress, and I'm pretty much looking forward 'til later (about 6 hours from when I'm writing this post), which will be the next phase of work on my mini.

Turns out I'll definately have to extend the armature, as the legs I accounted for were too short. I'll deal with this when the time comes, though.

Cheers,

Syb

tzeentchgiant
21-01-2006, 13:13
Ah very nice indeed, it's shaping out rather well (without illustrations to consult), I'm looking forward to some more installments.

Great work.

TG

Sybaronde
21-01-2006, 13:22
Ah very nice indeed, it's shaping out rather well (without illustrations to consult), I'm looking forward to some more installments.

Thanks! Not to brag, but my "mind's eye" is very powerful in the sense that I sometimes don't need sketches for certain types of work. Not that I'm counting on it generally, as I might just as well get screwed over in the next phase! :D

Pertinax
21-01-2006, 17:39
Very good sculpting tools (wht being reasonably priced ones too!) can be found at http://www.heresyminiatures.com/

That's what I use, and I'm very happy with them.

Sybaronde
22-01-2006, 18:05
Okay! Another push on the mini front! This time I went quickly and added more 'flesh' to the torso and smoothed it down. I also happened to use my dad's digicam, so the pictures are of better quality this time!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/mini_front.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Mini_left.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/mini_rear.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/mini_right.jpg

I've decided to let him be a bit skinny, but I'm still going to flesh out the torso a bit more on the back and where the hips are supposed to be, so that the anatomy is more on track. After that, I'll continue on his legs.

Cheers,

Syb

FearFrost
22-01-2006, 19:23
The neck structure looks good. Keep it up...and dont sweat details too much while you are just fleshing the figure out. Looks like you are on the right track.

-Brian

tzeentchgiant
22-01-2006, 19:36
Looking good as a basis, are you planning (loosely using that word :p) a lank fingure?

TG

Sybaronde
22-01-2006, 19:48
The neck structure looks good. Keep it up...and dont sweat details too much while you are just fleshing the figure out. Looks like you are on the right track.

-Brian

Thanks a lot. :D


Looking good as a basis, are you planning (loosely using that word :p) a lank fingure?

TG

Yeah, he's going to be a bit lanky, but not exaggerately so.

I made some concept drawings for my side-projects (I got lots of spare time next to this one anyway), which will be part of a game I'm planning to make:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/concepts.jpg

From the left to the right we got an oversized human, two regular sized humans (at least, they're around my height (183cm)), a battle tank which is about 3m tall and 4,5m meters wide and a fictional alien race known as a Skhera (which is tripedal, note!).

Cheers,

Syb

Pertinax
22-01-2006, 20:50
Impressed so far!

billr
24-01-2006, 02:19
Looking good. For pictures, you might want to invest in a mini-tripod. I got one for about USD $15 a couple of years ago, and it will help a lot with the picture taking.

Also, if you can take your pictures in a sunlit room it makes things a lot easier.

Sybaronde
24-01-2006, 18:20
Okay,

Updates. I've now graced my mini with an ****! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image029.jpg

It's supposed to work along with the hips, which aren't totally done yet. Then, I'm going to continue on its legs. Ive also extended the armature legs, so that I can work the legs to the max.

Below you can see the initial greened-down armature of a 1:100 scale person. I'm going to experiment in ways to make good minatures in this scale, so here's the first attempt. I've also completed the sketches for the chassis of a Behemoth tank, which will probably be started somewhere this week. I only need to figure out how to go about it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/Image030.jpg

I know the pictures are bad quality this time. Digicam was out of battery and I was out of patience (doh!).

Until next time (hopefully tomorrow),

Syb

Rabid Bunny 666
24-01-2006, 20:01
i feel like an idiot for posting those links, you don't need them.

those are awesome so far, especially with no sketches to refer to, impressive.

all the stuff i got for sculpting(and duly frittered away) is from www.ebobminiatures.com, kinda pricey, but it was a birthday gift, and i've still got about 70 of those ruddy armatures left :D

Sybaronde
24-01-2006, 20:43
i feel like an idiot for posting those links, you don't need them.

Actually, the one link to the GW site was extremely handy. :D I really liked that one, so you have my thanks for it.

Sybaronde
25-01-2006, 21:12
Right! I've now worked more on my mini. I've added a 'spine' of sorts, legs and a more protuding pelvis. I don't think I've added as much GS in one move as I did today. It looks relatively good though. Unfortunately, I didn't get to continue on the 1:100 model, as it took too long time with this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/mini_legs_front.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/mini_legs_rear.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Sybaronde/mini_legs_side.jpg

I'll work more in it tomorrow, if I'm not a trainwreck after work.

-Syb

tzeentchgiant
25-01-2006, 21:44
About the spine, beware of the way you've done it (even with the curve already in the lower back), there should be a dip, where the spine doesn't stick out, but is a dent in the back shape, you can feel it on yourself if you stand up straight.

That way it is at the moment that's not obvious.

Good work therwise.

TG

Sybaronde
26-01-2006, 04:06
That way it is at the moment that's not obvious.

Good work therwise.

TG

It's not, I know. But I'm not keeping it entirely anatomically correct until I actually start detailing the mini. So in the meanwhile, it might even look excessively thin.

-Syb

speedygogo
29-01-2006, 15:43
So far so good. You are getting the general shape down. It might be benificial to start thinking about details such as clothing and arm placement now. The futher you get into sculpting without preparing the figure for details, the harder it becomes to pull off as the project nears completion.

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-01-2006, 15:47
It looks rather, alien, you know, skinny and flat. Ah well, I couldn't do any better.

Sybaronde
29-01-2006, 18:33
So far so good. You are getting the general shape down. It might be benificial to start thinking about details such as clothing and arm placement now. The futher you get into sculpting without preparing the figure for details, the harder it becomes to pull off as the project nears completion.

Yes, indeed, the details should be started on pretty soon. I noticed with the head that if there is too much 'flesh', the less opportunity I get to work out crevices and similar effects. I'll try to work a bit more with a knife or something, though.

I was thinking about putting on the final flesh for the legs, so that I could start working on the details from then and on (including drilling in some arms).


It looks rather, alien, you know, skinny and flat. Ah well, I couldn't do any better.

It's because I have to work myself from the core and out, making it look rather weird in the process. Imagine stripping off 3cm of tissue layers from a human - he'd look pretty weird then.

-Syb

billr
05-02-2006, 01:58
Any progress?

self biased
06-02-2006, 16:22
it looks like something out of a tool video.

Sybaronde
15-02-2006, 19:02
Any progress?

It's been on hold for a little while, I'm afraid. :( I've started working at a chocolate factory (which is hard work, despite its comical classification). I'm hoping to make some progress somewhere next week.

And "self biased", what do you mean?

Deadleyheadley
15-02-2006, 19:07
looking good ,i wouldnt like to have a go a making my own figures,But theres some good money if your good ,The link ive left is for my unkles shop,He started of making cookers for dolls house out for resin and then moved on to making figures
http://www.neilcarterminiatures.com/index.html