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Chronomancer
19-10-2009, 10:22
Hi there!

I have been playing WHFB for some years, though it is not a priority game for me, so I play like once or twice a month, and as such my experience is not as big. Have not yet figured out all the rules of the new ed :)

However, I have been playing this list ever since the new codex, and it performs rather well, meaning, getting a nice position like 3rd/8 for a series of tours. My problem is, that I tend to lose from a single list, that being a Lizzards with monstrous creatures.

Anyhow, the list goes like this (give or take, don't recall exactly)

-Lord
Lvl 3, w/ Lord of the Undead, Walking Death, Avatar (GW&Heavy Armour), Acolyte (Lvl 4 wiz), Book of Arkhan, Helm of Commandment (takes hero slot), Crown of the damned (stupid & 4+ ward).
-Hero
BSB, Spectral Form (may not take any magical items)
-Hero
Hunter in the Dark (scout), Supernatural Horror (terror), Armour of the Night (Heavy & -2 shooting while alone), Striking Blade, Talisman of the Lycni.

8 Power Dice, 1 Bound Spell, 6 dispell dice.

Core
-10 Skeletons
-10 Skeletons, Banner
-20 Zombies
-5 Wolves
-5 Wolves

Special
-3 Spirit Host
-7 Black Knights, Barding, Musician, Standard, Standard of Strigos (hate)

Rare
-Varghulf
-4 Wraiths, Banshee upgrade

Extra Points for opponent: General, 2xStandards.

I could remove 5 wolves to add war banner to the skeletons, and a champ to the knights, however, such tweaks are of no interest to me. I would like advice on how to win with this list a Lizzard List. The usual winner list contains:
1 Toad Lord, :P
1 Cold one hero,
1 Skink hero fly,
1 Skink Priest w/Engine
2x Skink skirmish
1 Skink unit w/2 Crocodiles, :P
1 Terradon unit
2x Stegadons w/Spears

This list is quite good, and played by an equally good player (he's got GT awards, ETC awards, and I can't count the local ones :P). What I would like, is to receive any advice on what to do or what to tweak so that I might win this list. And I mean *Win*, not stay back and try to take a Draw by not being shot or charged. Don't like staying back, even if it means I would win the tours via tie brakers :P.

K.

Lord Anathir
19-10-2009, 12:12
varghulf should be sent after the engine to assassinate the priest. He could probably hold up that steg for a bit too. Once you kill the engine you can dispel the slaan well and use your spirit hosts and banshees to tie up the stegs.

the slaan will probably have the ability that makes you drop 6s to cast from your lord so you want to hang back more then 24 inches as long as you can in order to raise more units.

wolves should be protected or held back to redirect his stegs when you need to.

wraiths kept behind your infantry block to protect from terradons flying behind.

send lyncii vampire after skink skirmishers and salamanders.

as for your list I can't really help you because I'm not a vc player. I'd suggest larger starting infantry sizes so you dont have to waste your first few turns of magic raising models.

artyboy
19-10-2009, 15:23
Skip the spirit hosts. They're too expensive. Save them for when you manage to get wind of undeath off. I'd probably drop supernatural horror for eternal hatred or avatar of death w/ two HW or GW. Drop spectral form on the BSB. Consider making him a wight king BSB with the accursed armor and sword of kings. That unit, alone, should be able to wreck a stegadon per turn. Swap the zombies for another unit of skeletons. Like spirit hosts you shouldn't start the game with zombies on the table. Since you're tailoring your list for this opponent I'd drop the wraiths and pick up another vargulf. Wraiths are just too easy for lizardmen to deal with. If you really want to get serious about beating him then drop the black knights and pick up a unit of grave guard with a drakenhoff banner BSB. It just depends on how cheesy you want to get against him.

Leo85
20-10-2009, 04:13
Why is your helm taking up a hero slot? you "need" to max out characters for VC. I'd suggest a scout vamp in a 3000+pt game, in a 2k game your really need your chars in the core of your army. If you wanna win then you can build a much more powerful lists by boosting up your power dice, removing the spirtit hosts and switching skellies for ghouls. I'd honestly toss in some grave gaurd since you can replenish their ranks quite easily. But then again trying to "win" can be boring at time, so stick with your list and try different forms of tactics, but you should max out ur char slots.

funkaton
20-10-2009, 07:02
a good stegadon killer
vamp lord
dread lance, crown dammed
dread knight, red fury, beguile
mounted on hellsteed

he needs the charge but with beguile he will most likely kill or beak the big dino

Guanyin
20-10-2009, 07:47
Why is your helm taking up a hero slot?

I would think the title would be enough to answer this, he is playing under ETC rules.

As for your etheral BSB, I've used that myself with success, it gives the wraiths much more mobility, and the extra combat res and 1 wound less suffered doesnt hurt either.

Chronomancer
20-10-2009, 09:11
Thanx for the posts ppl, especially Anathir who understood what I am asking :)

@funkaton: Ty mate, but should I do that, who will cast?.. You are suggesting to tottaly change my list. I know my codex :)
@artyboy: Again thanx, but your comment is as irrelevant as funkatrons :) "Tweak" means slightly change, no more than 10% of the army, and you give me a new list. Moreover, most of your comments indicate your experience with units such as I use is limited. Hosts can win you the game, watch some good player playing them and you will see.

I will be glad to see any extra comments as Anathir's.

Maoriboy007
20-10-2009, 09:26
@funkaton: Ty mate, but should I do that, who will cast?.. You are suggesting to tottaly change my list. I know my codex :)

Not well enough not to call it a codex :)

funkaton
20-10-2009, 23:09
[QUOTE=Chronomancer;4054727]Thanx for the posts ppl, especially Anathir who understood what I am asking :)

@funkaton: Ty mate, but should I do that, who will cast?.. You are suggesting to tottaly change my list. I know my codex :)

no just your lord that trying to pretend hes a slaan:)
Just make him level 3 and give helm to someone else i don't like the hunter either
everything else looks cool like the BSB with the wraiths ouch!

hehe codex:)

zeekill
21-10-2009, 00:13
The best way to take on ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING that you dont want to deal with is to cast Raise Dead, then Invocation twice, and then Vanhels dance. Done. One 20+ man unit of zombies in the stegadon's flank or rear, thats a static combat res of 5 or 6 (3 ranks, outnumber, flank/rear) and one stegadon taken out for the entire game.

But truthfully, your overall list needs a tweak. Vamps feed on Power Dice even more than blood. Drop the ethereal vamp (including the near useless BSB without a magic banner) and get a casting one, take out the spirit host and the 20 zombies (its better to just kill 5 power dice to make one for free first or second turn) to make room for another character or to add some models to units, preferable the Cairns. Dont do it if you dont want to, but that is my honest advice for what is best for your army.

Chronomancer
22-10-2009, 08:17
Heheheh :)

1) Codex: 40devotion ofc. That's not gonna change ever :P

@zeekill: I am refering to playing list of "ETC", European Team Championship. Following those rules and my setup of the lord, i cannot use 4 total characters, but a max of 3. Moreover, I can use a total of 9 power dice / bound items. As you can clearly see, i am at that limit. And I suggest you use for a time my setup of wraiths / bsb and see for yourself. Ofcourse more models at the wraiths would be optimal, but my oh-so-loving game system only gives me 2000 pts while other armies get 2250 and 2500 vs me. How I wish WHFB was as balanced as its future counterpart... (CODEXCODEXCODEX!!! :D)

@funkaton: Many people mistake my lord for a caster. All he does is stay alive and out of combat, and the only two spells he ever casts are raise/heal and magic move. Everything else is a rouse. The list works within the environment it is built for, just hard to deal with the engine & the two supporting stegs.
The hunter is situational. Scout/18move means 4 units get a nice terror 1st turn, and he is near-immune to shooting. Ofc he dies of cannons/magic, but that is only a matter of how I possition the guy on the board and my dispell. If it does not serve me best on suecidal terror causing, he is in the lord's unit, ready to jump out and assist the charge of another unit, then overrun 3d6.

When every player alive (or unliving) tries to kill your lord, the worst thing you can do is try to outfight them. My weapon of choise is total combat absense, while wraiths/hosts/knights win resolution by them selves, usually with WS7, and if i can, vanhel them to death. Every combat ability the lord and his unit have, is a total defencive precaution.

I get carried away writing too much all the time :P When I post at warseer or other such forums, I expect a maximum of 10% sound replies, with many people missunderstanding at best the content of the post. For our number of replies, I am quite covered :P

zeekill
22-10-2009, 21:10
Heheheh :)

1) Codex: 40devotion ofc. That's not gonna change ever :P

@zeekill: I am refering to playing list of "ETC", European Team Championship. Following those rules and my setup of the lord, i cannot use 4 total characters, but a max of 3. Moreover, I can use a total of 9 power dice / bound items. As you can clearly see, i am at that limit. And I suggest you use for a time my setup of wraiths / bsb and see for yourself. Ofcourse more models at the wraiths would be optimal, but my oh-so-loving game system only gives me 2000 pts while other armies get 2250 and 2500 vs me. How I wish WHFB was as balanced as its future counterpart... (CODEXCODEXCODEX!!! :D)

My mistake I did not know what ETC was. My advice? Dont play in ETC. It cripples armies like this one that lives on magic, and strengthens those whose weakness is magic.