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Borthcollective
20-01-2006, 15:52
What is the ruling on the autobreak? Do you have to be affected by the fear to autobreak, or do you just have to be outnumbered.

The wording actually says that "a unit defeated in close combat is automatically broken without a break test if it is fighting an enemy that it fears and it's unit strength is lower than the victorious enemy".

Check at the bottom of this thread for the current arguement.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=433686#post433686

Avian
20-01-2006, 15:56
It is specifically mentioned in "Defeated by a fear-causing enemy" that it doesn't matter if a fear test is passed or not. Rulebook p. 81.

Borthcollective
20-01-2006, 16:19
Reading as far as I want works for me too, thanks for the help.

I really wish that all the rules that pertain to a situation were written before they toss an example into the rules, I normally stop reading at the example.

passagier
20-01-2006, 16:36
True, according to the rulebook autobreak does not need another fear test, but shouldnŽt the paragraph then read: "a unit defeated in close combat is automatically broken without a break test if it is fighting a fear causing enemy (instead of an enemy that it fears)... ".

Because to my understanding once you passed your fear test, you - per definition - have overcome your fear and are no longer affected by any rules regarding fear as long as the combat with the fear causing enemy lasts.

So am I mistaken or does the relevant paragraph on page 81 lack a certain precision?

Your Mum Rang
20-01-2006, 16:44
I would say you're mistaken as me and everyone I know play this rule even if you pass a fear test.

Avian
20-01-2006, 16:46
The rule as written just means that units that are Immune to Fear are not affected.

And just because you have passed your Fear test does not mean that you are no longer afraid of the enemy unit.

If, for example, you get charged by a Fear causing unit, pass your test, lose combat and flee but are not run down.
In your turn you rally.
In the next enemy turn, the Fear causing unit charges you again and you have to take another Fear test.

That's how the rules work, if you pass a Fear test it does not mean you have overcome your Fear, neither for other units of the same type or for that spesific unit for the rest of the turn / battle. It just means that you don't immediately run away or are frozen to the spot.


The rule onp. 81 is completely precise. I cannot see how you can be confused when it says that "this rule applies whether the unit has passed any Fear tests or not."
You can't seriously suggest that the rule does then not apply when you have passed the test.

passagier
20-01-2006, 17:09
No. No. IŽam actually in no way suggesting that. And I fully concur with your view on the autobreak ruling anyway.

(Having read my initial post again, I see that it could have been interpreted as arguing against the autobreak rule.)

I was simply asking, and I thought I made that clear, whether I was the only one to think that the wording of the rules is a bit unprecise

The sentence you quote "this rule applies whether the unit has passed any Fear tests or not." is clear as a bell, this can not be argued and I wasnŽt trying to. But in the sentence at the start of the paragraph the phrases "fear causing enemy" and "enemy that it fears" are used as substitutes when usually they mean something different.

Borthcollective
20-01-2006, 17:28
Thus my confusion, well until it was pointed out to me that reading an enite paragraph may indeed and in most cases answer the question before it is asked.

Festus
20-01-2006, 18:09
Hi

But in the sentence at the start of the paragraph the phrases "fear causing enemy" and "enemy that it fears" are used as substitutes when usually they mean something different.

It has to be "enemy that it fears" as an expression in the rules. *Fear causing* is a rule of the unit, it doesn't necessarily mean that the other unit fears this unit.

A "fear causing unit " A will still be a fear causing unit to a unit B which itself causes fear. But the unit B does not fear unit A, and thus does not break. The same with untis which are ItP: The fear casuers are still fear causers, but the ItP unit doesn't fear them...

Greetings
Festus

Yak
20-01-2006, 18:14
They use 'an enemy that they fear' so that units that are Immune to psychology or cause fear (or terror) themselves are not auto broken, as they would be by this wording. For the purposes of this question, unit X fears unit Y if unit has the fear rule and unit X does not and has no other exemption from psychology, or if unit X causes fear, but unit Y causes terror

Avian
21-01-2006, 12:04
It might also be wording that harkens back to older editions, where units could cause Fear in specific enemies (i.e. Ogres would cause Fear in smaller models) or be immune to Fear caused by specific enemies. Causing Fear in everybody you met wasn't as common back then.

Festus
21-01-2006, 12:21
Hi

Those examples are still in the most recent edition: Gobbos fear Elves, even though Elves don't have the rule *cause fear* (there are a few exceptions like Phoenix Guards).

So if the wording was *autobroken by a unit which causes fear* it wouldn't apply.

The wording is *autobroken by a unit which it fears* and so the Gobbos will run...

Greetings
Festus