PDA

View Full Version : Maintaining remains in play spells



theunwantedbeing
20-10-2009, 14:07
Simple one,
Can a mage that is fleeing maintain a remains in play spell?

Back up any answers with page references or dont answer at all please.
This isnt a poll of whether you think they can or not.

Atrahasis
20-10-2009, 14:11
"Once cast, one of these spells lasts until it is dispelled, until the Wizard chooses to end it (which he can do at any time), attempts to cast another spell, leaves the table or is slain." pp110

Fleeing isn't in the list of ending conditions.

Condottiere
20-10-2009, 14:47
That's strange, it also doesn't include the possibility if he inadvertently becomes stupid.

Atrahasis
20-10-2009, 14:50
Stupidity stops you casting spells. Maintaining a spell isn't casting a spell. It doesn't include it because it doesn't affect it.

theunwantedbeing
20-10-2009, 16:33
I do wonder why I thought that a fleeing wizard was unable to maintain a remains in play spell.....

Guanyin
20-10-2009, 17:02
I belive earlier editions had that.

Tolinwiz
20-10-2009, 17:05
All you guys clearly not referencing pages need to get out of the OPS THREAD IMO!

ARabidNun
20-10-2009, 18:23
As referenced for page 110 in the previous post, the remains in play spell is ended if the Wizard attempts to cast another spell or leaves the table. These two explanations alone give me the impression that the wizard needs to maintain concentration to keep the spell in play. Simply because it was not included as an oversight, or other reason, seems to go against the general idea.

If the rule "is slain" was not included for intensive purposes, would people continue trying to cast spells with a wounded/dead wizard. I know, a little extreme, but rule stretching or reading into the rules in a book instead of the spirit of the game in my opinion is no longer a game, but an administrative process.

Necromancy Black
20-10-2009, 23:58
As referenced for page 110 in the previous post, the remains in play spell is ended if the Wizard attempts to cast another spell or leaves the table. These two explanations alone give me the impression that the wizard needs to maintain concentration to keep the spell in play. Simply because it was not included as an oversight, or other reason, seems to go against the general idea.


Take whatever impression you want, the rules are quite clear.

I just see your line of thought as trying to add more rules to the game that don't exist, and personally I find that completely against the games spirit.
Also, how do you know it was an oversight?

EvC
21-10-2009, 11:02
As referenced for page 110 in the previous post, the remains in play spell is ended if the Wizard attempts to cast another spell or leaves the table. These two explanations alone give me the impression that the wizard needs to maintain concentration to keep the spell in play. Simply because it was not included as an oversight, or other reason, seems to go against the general idea.

You're right. Therefore, a Wizard may not remain an RiP spell if he moves or gets into combat. Or his unit is shot at or has to take any form of psychology test (it's very distracting having a big monster nearby, or listening to the screams of your dying comrades).

...or maybe we should just follow the rules. I know, I'm a maverick ;)

ARabidNun
22-10-2009, 17:40
Alright I understand the arguement and reread the rules for RiP spells on page 110 and fleeing units and there is nothing stating in B&W that a RiP spell is ended if the wizard flees.

I conceed to Necromancy Black that there is nothing stated in the rule and that my response was extreme. Simply that I could not imagine that GW could include every contingency for every situation. I sit on the fence for this one and although it seems out of character for me, there are several such circumstances like this.

TheGrudgeBearer
22-10-2009, 17:48
we sometimes use a house rule, that a fleeing mage doesnt maintain the spell, but a mage that fled but rallied untill the next magic phase does. thats a houserule as i said so no need ta attack it. but we also think that the rules says that a fleeing mage does maintain the spell as according to the rules page 110.

Necromancy Black
22-10-2009, 23:28
Simply that I could not imagine that GW could include every contingency for every situation.

Don't worry, there are some other rules out there similar to this that cause headaches.

I had a guy insist that Wizards could not cast spells in close combat. His reason was that there was no rule saying I could.

He refused to see my point that there is a rule allowing my wizard to cast spells. If I have a rule saying I can cast spells, then I can cast them, unless another rule says I can't. In this case there are no rules about casting while in close combat (except for magic missiles) so no extra rules apply.

He also said that a challenge completely blocks LOS, even if I would normally see Large Targets or units on hills :wtf:

wilsongrahams
23-10-2009, 06:16
As referenced for page 110 in the previous post, the remains in play spell is ended if the Wizard attempts to cast another spell or leaves the table...

The wording states that if the wizard tries to cast the SAME spell again, not just any spell, as you can have more than one RiP in effect at a time.

Nurgling Chieftain
23-10-2009, 06:42
I don't see how you're getting that from "...attempts to cast another spell...". If anything, it's the vice-versa: if you somehow cast the same RiP spell twice, it wouldn't be another spell, so you could maintain them both. (I'm not seriously suggesting that's the case.) But generally speaking, a wizard can't maintain more than one RiP.

Guanyin
23-10-2009, 06:45
The wording states that if the wizard tries to cast the SAME spell again, not just any spell, as you can have more than one RiP in effect at a time.

This is incorrect.

BRB p.110, under "remains in play spells: "Once cast, one of these spells lasts until it is dispelled, until the Wizard chooses to end it (which he can do at any time), attempts to cast another spell, leaves the table or is slain."

I think the bolded underlined part is clear enough, if the wizard tries to cast any spell, a remains in play spell he has in play is canceled.

Necromancy Black
23-10-2009, 06:52
The wording states that if the wizard tries to cast the SAME spell again, not just any spell, as you can have more than one RiP in effect at a time.

And for those at home following what the rule actually says, casting any spell will cancel any RiP spells the casting wizard is maintaining.

Page 110, Subheading "Remain in Play Spells", second paragraph. It's very clear on this.

narrativium
23-10-2009, 08:50
Gut Magic confuses this issue a little bit, as its RiP spells aren't conventionally RiP. I'm still not 100% on whether an Ogre Butcher can cast a buff spell on a unit which had a spell cast on it last turn - even by the same Butcher - if it succeeds, it of course replaces the spell already on the unit; if it fails, does the original spell effect still apply? (If yes, it's generally a good way to reinforce a spell vs. an enemy's remaining dispel dice... but it's a grey area in the rules.)

Condottiere
23-10-2009, 09:26
I recall the last edition Teclis could maintain separate RiP spells, but not the new one.

Also, the HE spell list was revised so that all spells that you would expect would be RiP except Flames of the Phoenix were fixed to last until the next magic phase.

Necromancy Black
23-10-2009, 11:39
Gut Magic confuses this issue a little bit, as its RiP spells aren't conventionally RiP. I'm still not 100% on whether an Ogre Butcher can cast a buff spell on a unit which had a spell cast on it last turn - even by the same Butcher - if it succeeds, it of course replaces the spell already on the unit; if it fails, does the original spell effect still apply? (If yes, it's generally a good way to reinforce a spell vs. an enemy's remaining dispel dice... but it's a grey area in the rules.)

Not 100% sure but I don't think you are allow to target a friendly RiP spell at a unit that already has a friendly RiP on it, you have to chose to stop it then pick it as a target.

Atrahasis
23-10-2009, 11:48
It's good that you're not 100% sure :)

A unit can only have one Gut Magic spell in play on it at once, but the first does not end until the second is successfully cast.
This leads to the interesting tactic of recasting the same spell as has been cast in an earlier phase on a friendly unit when the enemy has few dispel dice left, as if they fail to dispel either the casting attempt or the 7+ to dispel the RiP, the spell stays in effect.

Necromancy Black
23-10-2009, 13:39
Wow, double checking there is actually nothing like that at all in the rules, meaning you can indeed have multiple RiP spells on a single unit (hut magic might be different).

I think I got Warmachine rules stuck in my head :/

Adran
26-10-2009, 08:46
You can have two remains in play spells on one unit (otherwise curse of the leper would be so much worse) as long as they are from different wizards.
Gut magic is very different.
As far as the butcher is concerned they aren't remains in play spells, so they can have more than one active at any time. Each ogre unit may only be subject to one gut magic spell at a time, so you can re-cast the same spell onto a unit as suggested earlier, but the butcher will suffer the downsides of attempting to cast the spell again.
edit - Meant to say
The butcher will sufer the downside of successfully casting the spell, ie being hit, wounded, or forced to take a strength test.

EvC
26-10-2009, 11:30
[the second Butcher]