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TAU AIR CASTE
20-01-2006, 17:24
Hi guy I have a rule question but before I get into that I will ask a simple question which will make the other question easier to answer.

Are Warhammer rules Universal?

Please state yes or no and give your resons why, I personally think it is no as swarms for instance have different rules in different army books, look at vampire counts two different rules in the same book (spirit hosts and bat swarms). anyways please post your thoughts and resons why and then after a while I will post up the secound question.
Please only vote if you are going to give your reson why. Thanks guys ;)

Avian
20-01-2006, 17:31
What are you talking about?

Some rules apply to all units, others do not.

Swarms are one type of unit that is not defined in the Rulebook and so the exact rules vary from unit to unit. Monsters, on the other hand, have rules defined in the rulebook which applies to all monsters if no exception is given.

Griefbringer
20-01-2006, 18:08
I guess it depends on the definition of "universal".

For example, with the rules in Big Red Rulebook some apply to everyone (such as movement rules), while some apply only to units that especially have it mentioned in (such as skimishing, fast cavalry, flying).

As for rules outside BRB, I cannot think of any that would be universal (it would indeed be rather problematic), unless one counts in errata and FAQ to BRB.

And polls on the rules forum usually tend to be pretty pointless.

Festus
20-01-2006, 19:19
Hi

with the rules in Big Red Rulebook some apply to everyone

I cannot help but wonder: Is there a rule in WHFB that applies to everyone (meaning every existing unit - including eg. the STank)?

Asks Festus

Ganymede
20-01-2006, 19:27
The warhammer rules are notuniversal, otherwise I would sensibly autobreak when approached by a bear.

Griefbringer
20-01-2006, 19:36
I cannot help but wonder: Is there a rule in WHFB that applies to everyone (meaning every existing unit - including eg. the STank)?


Arghhh, you got me there with the steam tank - it tends to ignore almost every general rule out there in the BRB.

McMullet
20-01-2006, 20:16
Does the Stank use the Strength/Toughness table to wound other models? If so, that could be it. I know you have Killing Blow and Poison, but models that use those rules still use the table for some of their attacks.

TAU AIR CASTE
20-01-2006, 21:31
Basicly I've notice some rules (RULES THAT ARE NOT IN THE RULE BOOK) are different in different army books, Like swarms for intance! so when I say universal I'm talking about rules to do with units that are nothing to do with those in the rule book. Oh and no this has nothing to do with a steam tank :rolleyes:

Brushmonkey
20-01-2006, 21:40
Rules in the WHFB Rulebook are universal. Rules in the army books are specific to the army book. Pretty straight forward.

TAU AIR CASTE
20-01-2006, 21:49
Rules in the WHFB Rulebook are universal. Rules in the army books are specific to the army book. Pretty straight forward.

I personally agree with you and I think it is as stright forward as that but when I bring up my secound rules question people only argument will be "well it says that in army book A and it says that in army book B, army book B is more recent so the rules in army book B take presidence" same rule names but slightly different rules! I'll let the poll carry on a while longer and them I will post the real question (Or statement).

Nell2ThaIzzay
21-01-2006, 03:16
I personally agree with you and I think it is as stright forward as that but when I bring up my secound rules question people only argument will be "well it says that in army book A and it says that in army book B, army book B is more recent so the rules in army book B take presidence" same rule names but slightly different rules! I'll let the poll carry on a while longer and them I will post the real question (Or statement).

I would say that the BRB rules are universal. They would apply to everything.

Unless otherwise stated, and otherwise stated would have to come from the army books, which wouldn't be universal, which is why Skaven characters can lead from the back, and their ranged can shoot into close combat, whereas Vampire Counts are unbreakable, and take extra wounds when they lose close combat.

However, what you stated above would refer to amendments to the rules. Now, I don't follow White Dwarf, or any other publications that would have recent changes to the Warhammer rules. Between my friends and I, we have 3 BRB's, and at least one rule book for each army we play, and that's all that we have. So I wouldn't know any specific amendments to rules. But in the case of amendments, the more recent ruling should take precedence, and would be considered "universal" in the way that BRB rules are universal, because it should apply to everything unless otherwise stated.

mageith
21-01-2006, 05:50
We can only do what the rules say we can do.
Once a rule says we can do something, we can always do it.
Unless specifically contradicted by another rule.
GW can make any rule or ruling they want.

Festus
21-01-2006, 07:30
Hi

...and I think it is as stright forward as that but when I bring up my secound rules question people only argument will be "well it says that in army book A and it says that in army book B, army book B is more recent so the rules in army book B take presidence" same rule names but slightly different rules!
In WHFB, the changes in the rules have to be made *official* in the errata, so the rules generally stand as they are, in the BRB as well as in the ArmyBooks.
If there are two rules with the same name and different descriptions, each rule is still fully valid.

A good example is the strike first rule: Several weapons, skills, and powers have that rule, and each mentions a tiebreaker. GW repeatedly stated through various editions of WHFB -including this one - that all tiebreakers are correct for the relevant items: In case of a contradiction, you will have to resort to rolling a die.

Another good example is the Slayer List. Justbecause a new Dwarf book arrived, the Slayers in the SoC list will not be *updated*, as theyaregiven there in full. Only the parts that refer you to the Dwarf Army book will change - at the latest as soon as GW says so, if they ever do.
The animosity and BO in the RaveningHordes CD's rules gotofficially changed to the ones in the O&G book, as soon as this was published, by a note in the WD.

Greetings
Festus

Griefbringer
21-01-2006, 10:03
Does the Stank use the Strength/Toughness table to wound other models?

Yes, but it does not work reciprocally - S/T table is not used when wounding the tank, so not everyone uses it when trying to wound any enemy (also castle walls in siege rules do not use, but I am not sure if that would really count).

As to the issue by TAU AIR CASTE, rules in one army book do not apply to units in another army book, unless especially stated so somewhere.

TAU AIR CASTE
21-01-2006, 15:36
Ok then guys I will now post my other question in a new thread.

Crazy Harborc
21-01-2006, 20:05
The rules are the rules.......unless.......two(or more) players agree to change the rules:eek:

Weird thing is........I know one opponent who firmly believes that only GW can change the rules we are "required to follow".