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DragonPup
20-01-2006, 21:53
So I picked up battle for Macragge last week. I'm taking the classes offered by my local GW shop on model building.

What I am seeking is information on what is a good army for a new player. I've had my eye on 3.

1) The Tau. I know about the new stuff coming out in a few months. And I like the general look and feel of the army(and as a anime fan, battlesuits = <3)

2) The Witch Hunters. I like the style behind these ladies. Although, I am not sure how easy woring with metal will be(the class is still doing plastics for now).

3 The Dark Eldar. Again, I look the look of these guys. I am told that they are not very good as a beginner army.

Other things to keep in mind is that I like to pick sides that are generally not common. I am one of those 'against the grain' kind of people. :)

Any advice to which army I should plunk down and start working on would be apprecated.

Deadite
20-01-2006, 21:59
You're looking for "sage" council...here? haha... well, I guess it's better than the GW community boards. ;)

Marines and Necrons make good "beginners" armies as they're fairly forgiving of mistakes. Not simple, but not overly complex unless you really want them to be.
The 3 armies you listed require a bit of finesse to use well.

kermit
20-01-2006, 22:18
From personal experience, I would recommend Dark Eldar. I have enjoyed painting DE and because this hobby is about more than just playing, I would enjoy painting a DE army. Not many people like the look of the DE, but I don't mind them and they are the only army that I don't think I have EVER been able to beat. They are quite nasty when used correctly.

On the Tau: I HATE them. I have mentioned that many times before. I don't mind the army, I just hate painting them. The fire warriors really make my angry. Then that is my personal experience so take that with a grain of salt. Yes, new stuff is coming out, so you know that by investing in them now, not much should change in the coming years.

Witch Hunters: I have only played against them once in a team game. The guy on my side left about 20 mins in... pissed us off... then the person became my partner. I hear they are quite good. They also allow you to add different armies into it (Space Marines, Imperial Guard) and you can get Assassins and they are really good.

So in the end you have to think about what army are you going to be willing to invest a great deal of time and energy into. Make sure you pick something that you see yourself enjoying to play too. Browse this forum and read some of the tatic pages on them and make the most educated decision you can. Also, if you want to do conversion on all your minis, then I would say stick to plastic, metal is not the most fun to work with.

I started with Thousand Sons... not the easiest armies to begin with... I got frustrated by not winning games, but I won for painting so I stuck with it... not I am not an all bad player too!

Keep us posted.

blood angel
20-01-2006, 22:26
Stay away from the dark eldar! :) The figs are really too basic and the models will be hard to find.

Witchhunters are not a very basic army. Not very new player friendly.

If your other option is Tau I am sure you won't be disappointed with their new rules. You can even get many of the figs now that won't be replaced.

Hope that helps!

blitz589
20-01-2006, 22:33
Id go WHs, ive recently played them, and it was the hardest army ive ever played against, They have a 3+, and numbers on ther side, so they will be fairly forgiving, Id go with them, and just pay close attenion to that Faith Point stuff, it was very annoying.

starlight
20-01-2006, 22:35
Tau - wait for the new book if they really draw you. Plastic is good.
DE - Fragile, but deadly if used right. Almost entirely plastic as well. I suggest waiting for the Eldar book.
WH - *can* be finicky to learn, but if you build them as additions to an IG or Marine army, you can learn as you go.

Suggestion - find an army that you *like* the look and style of, because these are the aspects which will keep you playing while you learn (and lose).

I play SoB and a DEWC (as Harlequins) and will likely get Tau if I get time.

Chem-Dog
20-01-2006, 22:55
Of those you've listed, I'd have to say that the Tau are the best bet, even if it's just because they are just about to get their brand new codex. Pretty much the entire range is plastic, you can certainly create a viable working army with just plastic.
It also sound's like you're drawn to them aesthetically too, this helps a lot when you have to paint an entire army.

TomKamakazi
20-01-2006, 23:03
I dont know if you could call my council "sage" but I'll give it a stab.

The following are my opinions only:

Dark Eldar, while be unspeakably cool in concept, may be a little hard to use. They are fragile as glass, but they're also faster than any one else and they hit very hard.
There is an issue that a few of thier units are just not worth taking
and some of the models... well, suck. But there's always conversion and substitution oppertunities if you're feeling ambitious this early in you hobby. ie Dark Elf Witch Elves from Warhammer Fantasy will make prett good Wychs seeing as the models available are pretty poor.
If you're thinking the DE, my advice would be; Drachons, Incubi, Raiders and enough Warriors to fill your transport case!

Tau are simply beyond my experience, so I'll skip right over them and let some one else help you out there.

In a word, Witch hunters are awesome. Sisters are probbably the most points effective troop in the game. They've got bolters, power armour, faith points, heavyflamers galore and BS4. You can put together a pretty diverse set of forces within the scope of a Witch Hunters army. You could go with storm troopers as your basic troop choice if you prefere, you could go pure sisters, There's inquisitors and thier wonderful characterisation that they add. There's assasins to field, inducted Imperial Guard, Exorcists(!) and all manner of bizzare close combat units.
The problem here is that almost everything in your army is going to be metal and a little harder to work with. With so many options you could end up a little overwhelmed too.


Just pick what ever feels best to you. This is a hobbie, not just a board game.
Good luck to you, and welcome to Warseer.

Helicon_One
21-01-2006, 00:27
So I picked up battle for Macragge last week. I'm taking the classes offered by my local GW shop on model building.

What I am seeking is information on what is a good army for a new player. I've had my eye on 3.

I'm genuinely pleased that you aren't interested in doing boring old space marines like every other new player in the universe.... 40K is plagued by an abundance of marine armies at the expense of everything else, so good on you.

My opinion, don't get bogged down in worrying about 'newbie friendly' armies. Its more or less a myth that GW uses to flog endless boxes of Marines to kids who know no better (pardon my cynicism), once you've figured out the core rules to 40K then as long as you're a moderately intelligent human being you can get a feel for using pretty much any of them (and, well, your initial post was spelled and punctuated and everything, with no l33tsp34k, so you look like you qualify on that count). Yes, some armies have more special rules or variables than others, but there's nothing that's going to make your brain melt.

What's most important, by far, is that you pick the army that you most like the models, fighting style, and background of, and don't let anyone push you towards a "starter army" that you'll run out of enthusiasm for by the time you get round to painting your third squad.


1) The Tau. I know about the new stuff coming out in a few months. And I like the general look and feel of the army(and as a anime fan, battlesuits = <3)

Tau are a decent army, certainly, and as you say there's shiny new things on the way. God-like firepower mixed with mostly dreadful incompetence in hand-to-hand. Some nice models too, with plenty of plastics.


2) The Witch Hunters. I like the style behind these ladies. Although, I am not sure how easy woring with metal will be(the class is still doing plastics for now).

Working with metal is the easiest thing in the world, it just means you risk supergluing your fingers together every so often! If anything the 2-piece Sisters models are easier than multipart plastics, although it makes converting trickier (not impossible though, I've got my fair share of chopped up models).

Sisters of Battle are awesome, 11pts for Marine BS, armour and weaponry. They are terrifying. In fact, you can safely ignore half the options in the Witch Hunters Codex, because almost everything in there that isn't a Battle Sister is frankly underpowered junk by comparison. I run a pure Battle Sisters army as my current main force and they do me proud.

The only problem with Sisters is that those metal models don't come cheap (going by the UK online store you can get a box of 12 Tau Fire Warriors, 16 Kroot, or 16 Dark Eldar Warriors for less than the cost of 10 Battle sisters), so if you're on a budget it might not be ideal.


3 The Dark Eldar. Again, I look the look of these guys. I am told that they are not very good as a beginner army.

They're certainly doable as a starter force, very elite with some horrificly powerful close combat units, but pretty fragile. Can be a challenge to get them working for you, but they are viciously effective once you do. And if you're looking for a non-standard army, they certainly fit into that description, and if nothing else the surprise factor might work in your favour against opponents used to nothing but Marines, Marines and more Marines.

If I was going to go for one of the above, I'd say Witch Hunters (by which I mean Sisters), but I'm biased. What I'd say is that for the moment, make sure you've got your head completely around the 40K rules using the BfM stuff you have, run some Google searches for the armies you're interested in to see what other people say about them, don't rush into any one army. Whichever one you decide to do, read up on them in the 40K tactics section, and/or get yourself on a good mailing list (Yahoogroups is a good place to start) and hassle them for tips on painting, converting and playing. With the advice of a few old-timer experts behind you, you should master any army fairly quickly.

Tim

Orcdom
21-01-2006, 07:49
Stay away from the dark eldar! :) The figs are really too basic and the models will be hard to find.

dont listen to him, they are not hard to find, try www.bartertown.com and post an add there you should get plenty of responses.

but for the playability, if you want fast and mobile, D Eldar and Tau are your guys, tau are probly less fragile.

want a pretty versitile and expansive army try the witchhunters. neither of the 3 are your typical beginners army.

Steve

Vanger
21-01-2006, 12:42
New to the game, eh? Well, here is my advice.

First of all, decide, what you like the best imaginating, doing yourself on a battlefield?

If you imagine yourself hopping around in mechas, or doing the shooty dakka dakka stuff, than I say, get yourself Tau (and after all they got Kroots and now Vespid, which make it a divese army in looks as the Sisters)

Or if you like the image of hacking and slashing a bloody swath through your enemies, wearing latex and the whole S/M (no, no, no, not space marines, the other S/M :D ) attitude, then go for the Dark Eldar. But as stated already, it's hard to play with them. (As if it wouldn't be with every army as a newbie.)

And if you picture it like shooting the hell outa your enemies as you charge them, like the S/M (again, not space marines :D ) feeling (just look at sister repentia or arco-flagelants) and can handle the pious attitude, then go with Sisters.

In the end, the looks will decide. And after you finished your first army, you still can start another one :) (As lots of people did in this hobby...)

And one modelling advice. For plastic, always use plastic cement, never use superglue for it!

Hope that helps!

Cheers

TomKamakazi
21-01-2006, 14:07
And one modelling advice. For plastic, always use plastic cement, never use superglue for it!

Cheers


Simple advice, but extremely important.

Gamgee
21-01-2006, 15:03
Lots of good advice, mine is to take the one you've got the best "feel" with, do with it what you like!

But to avoid pointless posting:

CONGRATULATIONS! You are going to be a rare and treasured individual for playing a non MEQ army (marine equivalent: t4 3+ save)! Wish more people started like that!

Greets,

Gamgee

Sybaronde
21-01-2006, 15:15
As a newbeginner, I'd look for a 'forgiving' army, since your perspective of the game will change as you play, and some tactics might prove useless or not as effective as you wished. Space Marines are considerably modular in this regard (replacable specialist/heavy weapons troopers), while Necrons simply won't die (they do in the end, though).

The Tau are another deal, though not necessearily unforgiving. They're relatively cheap to get (just like SM/Nec) and are fun to paint and assemble (I recall perpetual mirth when I put together my first Fire Warriors). The only thing is how you play with them. You might end up buying some units which end up fast on the shelf (say Kroot and XV15s, in my case), but it's like that with Space Marines or Necrons to my experience. The only thing you should note, however, is not to glue the weaponry on the XV8s on, but just 'clip' 'em on to test them out. Once you've decided to go for a choice of weapons, you can glue them together. Otherwise, the Tau are considered as very mobile, and their playing style is 'fluid' for lack of a better word. You just need to learn how to shoot 'right', as target priorities and allocation of firepower is very important.

As for Witch Hunters and Dark Eldar, I'd say too expensive and out-dated, respectively. The Witch Hunters come in too much metal to start out as a force, but if you already have an Imperial force, you could converge towards a fully fledged WH force over time. The Dark Eldar, on the other hand, are old in terms of models and codex - I'd wait that one out until they get a new codex and some better models.

Sincerely,

Syb

Xander-K
21-01-2006, 15:26
Imperial Guard & Orks are about the only "unforgiving" army to play as from the point of view of beginners, all the other armies have plenty of strong points even if they aren't 3+sv t4 they could still easily win as much as marines or necrons do.

I would go for Tau because as someone said, lots of plastics, lots of lovely firepower, they are fairly mobile and you only have to focus on shooting.

DragonPup
21-01-2006, 23:38
Thanks for the insightful advice so far. It's definatly better than what I got from GW's own forums so far. :)