View Full Version : Possible Grand Tournament Army Skaven 2,000pts Critique pls

21-01-2006, 09:58
So It is now the time I start Getting My possible different lists ready for the upcoming grand tournaments and this is the first one I came up with... Let me know what ya think and please no one suggest more shooting.

2000 Pts - Skaven Roster - Possible Gt List

1 Warlord @ 165 Pts
General; Hand Weapon
1 Sword of Striking @ [30] Pts
1 Enchanted Shield @ [10] Pts
1 Warpstone Armor @ [35] Pts

1 Chieftain (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 100 Pts
1 Tenebrous Cloak @ [30] Pts

1 Warlock Engineer @ 145 Pts
fully loaded
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Storm Daemon @ [25] Pts

1 Master Moulder @ 71 Pts
Great Weapon; Light Armor

30 Clanrats @ 205 Pts
full command
1 Ratling Gun Team @ [60] Pts

30 Clanrats @ 205 Pts
full command
1 Warpfire Thrower Team @ [75] Pts

5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers @ 50 Pts

5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers @ 50 Pts

21 Stormvermin @ 214pts
full command
Hand Weapon; Halberd; Heavy Armor; Shield

10 Night Runners @ 70 Pts
Extra Hand Weapon

20 Plague Monks @ 185 Pts
full command

3 Rat Ogres @ 150 Pts

3 Rat Ogres @ 150 Pts

1 Warp-Lightning Cannon @ 100 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1995

21-01-2006, 19:14
Few things to start off with,

Warlord - drop sword of striking and give him a wpn that has some punch, like Desolate Blade or Sword of Might. If at all anything pay the extra 15pts and take the Crused Blade of Delirium. WS10, not much would be able to hit you.

Battle Standard Bearer - drop the cloak, pts wasted on a mdl that should never be able to be shot at. If your affraid of "snipers" then set him in the back rank. Lead from the back.

Master Moulder - drop the great wpn for Things Catcher(killing blow) Also what unit is he going in? cause putting him in the Ogers he'd never be able to fight. Maybe try to add in a unit of giant rats, and if you do might want to add a whip.

Dropping cloak should cover the cost of most of the above changes.

Other considerations -
Drop the unit size of clanrats to 25 or so, and then put the pts into giant rats or more golbadiers. There unit size is pretty same and could cause you so problems (panicing other units from when they get blasted to hell) That or hide them well till its time to spring a trap.
Wpn teams- move one to the Stromverin unit. better servival chance.(hopefully)
Try to give your Stormvermin (or Plauge Monks) the Umbanner, because they're going to be taking alot of fire.
I would also drop a unit of rat orgers to put in Sencer Bearers. Only if you decide NOT to add the giant rats. It would fit the army theme a lil better. If you do that then drop the Master Moulder and take a Plague Priest and give him the Liber Bubonicus. You can use the extra dispell die and magic.

play test and see what you like.

hopefully that wasn't too confusing,

Now go for that :cheese: and swarm the enemy.

21-01-2006, 20:53
Mast Moulder and Warlord going into the storm vermin I was gunna have the BSB Run around on his own behind the rat ogres by the generals unit. Was possibly thinking of trying to get the Standard of the horned rat and move him to a clan rat regiment 30 models that cause fear and I always win combat with that unit so nothing wrong with making auto run I suppose. Yea I really think I need to just do a lot of play testing :) thanks for advice Ill see how it works.

22-01-2006, 01:13
i would never put a BSB out in the open cuase anyone and everything that could/would attack him ASAP.

I've put the "fear" banner with slaves before. So funny seeing a unit run away from 40 slaves(80pts)

Play test, play test.

Consider that judges/oppenents will be looking at your army for "fluff" and themes in tournies.

22-01-2006, 12:04
I'd consider revising what you have on your Warlord a little. The Warpstone Armour/Enchanted Shield combo is rather good (and under rated by most people), but you could probably use a good Ward Save on him too. I recommend the Warpstone Amulet (it doesn't get much better than a 4+ Ward for a mere 25pts). Either that, or a more dangerous weapon in his hands - the Desolate Blade is actually quite good for him. Solid Strength boost but keep your initiative - what's not to love? I'd advise against the Cursed Blade of Delerium though - you sort of want things to hit you, so you can use your armour to kill them when you make your saves.

I'd also definitely try to fit at least one Slave unit in there. Keeping them near the General, you can get a cheap Ld10 tar pit unit.

village idiot
22-01-2006, 19:44
I would recommend most suggestions here, but the thing I am most concerned about is your warlock. I'm not suggesting more magic, I'm suggesting less. In a 2K tournie, you would have little magic defence (This is all in theory, what with me not have ever been to a tournie) and I say cut your losses and dump the storm daemon for another scroll, and if you want, get rid of his equipment for a very basic scroll caddy. But I would just advise on giving him two scrolls.;)

I second the dropping of the tenebrous cloak, maybe for a warbanner to help with the combats?

I also agree either the monks or stormvermin should get the unbranner, preferably the monks, as they have currently got minimal protection.

I would say that the night runners should have throwing stars instead of additional hand weapons, but that's just personal taste.

I woukd drop the master moulder and a unit of rat ogres, neither of them have performed very well for me, maybe an assassin or plague priest instead? The priest would boost the combat for the monks and you could just give a little more kick with an assassin to an infantry unit, and the dropping of the rat ogre ubit should make it easier to do any of the above ideas.

Hope I helped :)

Cpt. Drill
22-01-2006, 20:48
Ummm you are missing 6 ratling guns for this army...

Any ways... I would ditch the rat ogres and take a few units of 25 slaves!

Or maybe units of 30 giant rats...

Mad Makz
23-01-2006, 02:27
[QUOTE=Cpt. Drill]Ummm you are missing 6 ratling guns for this army...

I certainly hope that was sarcasm. :)

As for the Lord, I think his kit could do with some work. Sword of Striking is useful, but not great against hard to kill troops. Skaven have some of the best magic weapons in the game in terms of evening the odds (Weeping Blade, languisher sword and Bands of Power combo'd up can be quite good as well if you have enough magic to get the Bands of Power off, or even the Desolate blade or Blade of Black Fury, both of which can make your Lord punch above his weight.)

If you just want him around for his leadership, I think Heavy Armour,a great Weapon, the Cautious Shield and the Twisted Crown is a better combo. Regeneration and you can opt not to use the Cautious Shield versus rank and file to get the Great weapon, and in a nasty challenge you are very well protected by the Cautious shield dropping two of your opponents attacks. (Versus a mid level character you can drop one of their attacks and continue to be very flexible). Alternatively you can take the cheaper option of the above by giving him the Warpstone Amulet, although on average you will lose your lord in one gamein a six game tournament so I personally am not a fan for tournament lists. Either option is worth considering taking a Warpstone Charm in case you are hit by an unfortunate panic test or desperately need to rally your lords unit.

The BSB running around on his own is an interesting risk. I think it might actually be able to work, so it could be worth playtesting, but he'll attract a lot of fire (best to keep him within 5 inches of a unit bigger than the ratogres to prevent him being targetted). In generaly I don't think it's worth the risk though, as are lots of weapons that could toast him pretty quickly even with the tenebrous cloak (a 3+ ward isn't that great if a single model with 2 wounds and toughness 4 is getting hit 7 or 8 times from one spell)

One of your units, either the Stormvermin or the Plaguemonks, should have the Warbanner. Simply put it's the best 25 points you can spend in the game.

I'd also consider the umbranner on the Stormvermin if the lord is going to be in there, because currently they are a big target for opposing shooting and don't have enough models to survive a game at 10 leadership by the time they reach combat. (As you have only two units of clanrats rather than 3 and you are considering putting two fighting characters in there I am assuming you intend them to reach combat rather than just provide a solid leadership base/second wave force.)

Your warlock shouldn't be fully loaded, you don't need to be able to generate a 4th power dice (You can only use 3 with Warplightning, level 2+1 max dice, and even if you COULD use 4 you have a significantly greater chance of miscasting than you do of getting irrisistable force due to the '13's being less common, which to me just makes it too big a risk, meanwhile on 3 dice you have a better chance of irresistable force than miscasting (about 1 in 10 are irresistable force. I always use 3 dice for warplightning, If I am desperate enough to need to use 4 to see if it will go through I just use the warpstone chunk).

I used a single warlock like this (dispel scroll, storm daemon) very effectively in a tournament. As long as you have enough models to soak shooting casualties you should be able to handle most opposing magic with 3 dispel dice and a single scroll, as long as you know what spell to use the scroll for and what ones to just let through.

Personally, I think Rat Ogres are a liability generally, but they are also cool and fluffy so I still use them in some armies. It's just that they don't generally achieve anything other than attracting missile fire (although sometimes this can be enough of a role.)

23-01-2006, 02:29
rat ogers are good if you've got fast units with #'s to fallow up with them ( giant rats)

I'n most tournies I've been in my opponents at least had a Lv 3 and a Lv 2 wizard. That was for non-magic based armies. Vamps and such had all but one character as mage/wizards.

If i'm going into a tournie where I'm concered abotu magic and really want to shut him down till close combat, I'll take 2 warlocks with 2 dispel scrolls each.

expect as least 7power dice from your opponents. With only 3-4 dispel dice you'll have to chose which spell is less harmful then the others. Plan to take causualties from spells.

mmm.. amazing how many people seem to agree with what a stated before. But it still depends on the people and their armies that are in your gaming area.

23-01-2006, 03:38
One question I am asking myself is as follows. Why are you placing your Master Moulder with your general?

You would be better served by either dumping the master moulder for identically equipped chieftan and save some points, or actually deploy your master moulder somewhere so his ratogres can benefit form his beastmaster rule.

23-01-2006, 08:14
Heya Fellas Sorry it has taken so Long to Get back to all your comments Wow and a lot of em I see....MAd MAkz good point On haveing the egineer fully loaded as he can only use three max dice I totally overlooked that. As far as the two groups of rat ogres I was placing them On each side of the storm vermin Unit With the battle standard behing the storm vermin. Yes I was planning on getting the two characters into combat with two supporting rat ogre units and on there flanks each a clan rat unit of 30. I might Do as suggested and take two units of 20 slaves and take out one unit of rat ogres. Yes I know having a battle standard out in the open is somewhat mad But I am hopeing to have his characters roasted by the warplighting cannon or hunted down by the night runners therefore taking away some heat from my bsb. OR What you guys think if I just took a rat ogre away from each group so two rat ogres wich gives me a hundred points to mess with ... Hmmm just had an idea Brb with a Changed list but somewhat similiar...:D

23-01-2006, 08:48
Revision Let me Know what You guys all think of the New list and I upped the models in it more hordy.

2000 Pts - Skaven Roster - Possible Gt List

1 Warlord @ 155 Pts
General; Hand Weapon
1 Sword of Might @ [20] Pts
1 Enchanted Shield @ [10] Pts
1 Warpstone Armor @ [35] Pts

1 Assassin @ 150 Pts
1 Weeping Blade @ [45] Pts - Hidden In generals Unit

1 Chieftain (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 95 Pts- In generals unit In back
1 War Banner @ [25] Pts

1 Warlock Engineer @ 130 Pts
Upgraded Warp-Energy Condenser; Warp-Blades; Warplock Pistol
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

30 Clanrats @ 265 Pts
Full Command
1 Ratling Gun Team

30 Clanrats @ 280 Pts
Full Command
1 Warpfire Thrower Team

9 Poisoned Wind Globadiers @ 90 Pts

22 Stormvermin @ 223 Pts
Hand Weapon; Halberd; Heavy Armor; Shield

8 Night Runners @ 56 Pts
Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Skirmishers

20 Clanrat Slaves @ 60 Pts
Hand Weapon; Spear

20 Clanrat Slaves @ 60 Pts
Hand Weapon; Spear

20 Plague Monks @ 185 Pts
Full COmmand Extra HAnd wep

3 Rat Ogres @ 150 Pts

1 Warp-Lightning Cannon @ 100 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1999


Power Dice: 3
Dispell Dice: 3

Total Models: 172

magic items: 9.3

I know Your prolly Saying the Generals unit is a tad chracter heavy But i want it to kick some major ass in combat so why not have the assasin hidden with my general and have the Bsb in back =)

Danger Rat
23-01-2006, 10:10
Another combo worth trying with the general is heavy armour, enchanted shield, weeping blade, bands of power and a 6+ ward save. Hes very good at taking out heros and some of the lesser lords and if faced by a chaos lord or blood dragon vampire count just say no and dissapear to the back of the unit!

I personally wouldn't take the warp lightning cannon as i've never seen them do enough damage to justify taking them esp when the crew will do a runner the minute anything charges them. Id either take some plauge censer bearers to compliment the plague monks or a tunelling team to either sabatage enemy gun crews or use to stop some enemy units from marching

23-01-2006, 20:49
warpcannons always work out well for me. Bands of power is kinda pointless unless he gets more magic to bait out those despel dice.

Still have a serious lack of magic defence, and you won't make it in quick enough. (ie giant rats)
Assassin - personally not my style and too many pts for nottin. I'd rather take a anyting but him.
Give someone a Languisher Sword and a warp save or something.

But i really like the fact you don't have those 5man units anymore. and the slaves are kool.

#1 rule I go by is to never give my opponent a unit that give him too much of an advantage if he gets ride of it. Talking about the Stormvermin/command unit. Shooting/magic and everything else will be focused on that unit if you deploy as mentioned. If and when they flee 2nd/3rd turn everything thing else will panic around them. It will be your weak spot. You'll have to use your slaves very well. and hope they don't run before hand. You'll NEED 3turns of screening out of them.

Danger Rat
24-01-2006, 09:34
Good point with the bands of power on my warlord i tend to have 3 engineers in my army I agree with you on the assassin id take another warlock engineer with storm demon and put the remaining 40pts to good use, maybe reduce the globadiers to a 6 strong unit and either buy a weapon team for the stormvermin and add 1 more model to that unit so when the lord and BSB join it has a unit strength of 25 or get some plauge censer bearers or a tunnelling team.

26-01-2006, 02:05
not sure if I mentioned it or if you saw it before, my fav warlord:

warpstone armour, warpstone amulet and desolate blade, and shield. some times pistol if I greedy. Works so well on so many units/characters.