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boogle
16-05-2005, 20:55
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99220299017&orignav=13 seems like they are getting a full army list as well, interesting!!

:0)
17-05-2005, 03:18
Too bad half of that regiment is just copy and pasted. Prove me wrong. :p

Darius Rhiannon
17-05-2005, 15:17
Why should we prove you wrong when you are right?

Tadite
18-05-2005, 17:58
Too bad half of that regiment is just copy and pasted. Prove me wrong. :p


No biggy.

A new list could be cool.

EvC
18-05-2005, 18:04
Still, Ģ15 for a unit of 20 zombies, seems like a good deal!

Odin
18-05-2005, 18:58
Too bad half of that regiment is just copy and pasted. Prove me wrong.

Flipping heck you're right! Didn't notice that before.

How do they expect us poor sods with proper jobs/schoo/university to be able to convert an army of these guys when they can't even manage more than about 6?!?

Tadite
19-05-2005, 07:20
Saw the list. Purdy cool really. Have to take a Special Character (also NO MAGIC, or nearly no magic lots of magic resistance though). You do get Zombie Cannons, Ogres, Hand Guns, Kraken, and rats though.

So its a kinda of cool fluffy list. I have no idea how actually good it is. But it would still be fun I suppose.

Sylass
19-05-2005, 07:24
That's the list released in the booklet that comes with the next WD and it's not part of the Lustria campaign book, right?


Seems I'll have to get a copy of the WD then...

Jedi152
19-05-2005, 08:34
I presume its in the US WD? So us poor UK schmoes won't get it for about 6 months ... sigh.

NetGuru
19-05-2005, 09:40
I presume its in the US WD? So us poor UK schmoes won't get it for about 6 months ... sigh.

Actually we are getting the list in the next WD, which for subscribers should be out tomorrow.

rkunisch
19-05-2005, 10:43
I presume its in the US WD? So us poor UK schmoes won't get it for about 6 months ... sigh.

I think it is the german WD Sylass references to. How to you think that the rules will be released in the UK at all? :p

Have fun,

Rolf.

boogle
20-05-2005, 12:05
got the list today, saw it and fell about laughing, the Zombie Handgunners have a BS of 0 so they now must take the title of 'Most Useless unit ever'

Sylass
20-05-2005, 12:16
Do Zombie Hangunner-Pirates always hit on 6 (similar to Khemri always hitting on 5) or do they get the normal modifications for shooting at e.g. long range, skirmishers, etc....?

Scythe
20-05-2005, 12:17
:wtf: (hey, its back!)

Do they even seriously read these articles before publishing?

Sylass
20-05-2005, 12:25
In another thread it's said that the Zombie Handgunners hit on 6, regardless of the BS 0 statline. So they are not completely useless...

Especially not if they'd always hit on 6 without modifictions...anyone who could answer this?

boogle
20-05-2005, 12:32
yep its in the special rules (d'oh) always hit on a 6 regardless of modifiers, but on a 1 they misfire

Griefbringer
20-05-2005, 13:25
Does misfire mean that they shoot themselves or something like that? Giving guns to zombies does not sound like the brightest idea.

This somehod reminds me that I have some 28mm cowboy zombies waiting to be painted.

Scythe
20-05-2005, 14:34
So for each hit you also statisctically get a misfire? The uses of those seen extremely dubious in that case.

@Sylass, sorry for my maybe a bit strange previous comment, I didn't saw your post (just beat me to it ;)).

EvC
20-05-2005, 15:01
Well, you can raise more zombie pirates in their place- your opponents usually cannot.

boogle
20-05-2005, 16:30
So for each hit you also statisctically get a misfire? The uses of those seen extremely dubious in that case.

@Sylass, sorry for my maybe a bit strange previous comment, I didn't saw your post (just beat me to it ;)).


no, for example, you ahve 10 handgunners that can shoot, you roll youtr to hit dice, any 6s are hits regardless of any modifiers for moving cover, skirmishers etc, any shots that roll a one, that hit is taken against the unit itself, sorry for not being more clear

Scythe
20-05-2005, 17:22
That's what I also ment in my not terribly clear wording. I ment looking at basic statistics, for every hit you roll you also roll a misfire (you roll just as many 1s as you roll 6s statistically speaking), so you hit your own unit as often as you hit the enemy. Even if you can resummon yourself, that doesn't look like a good deal to me...

boogle
20-05-2005, 17:32
ISFAIK you can't summon any more zombies but i've only had a quick look at the list

EvC
20-05-2005, 21:33
The rules for the basic zombie pirates says more can be summoned with the invocation spell, so I'll presume that applies to the other zombies until the facts are checked properly.

Sgt John Keel
20-05-2005, 21:56
The rules for the basic zombie pirates says more can be summoned with the invocation spell, so I'll presume that applies to the other zombies until the facts are checked properly.

Yup, but the list doesn't include anything with the Invocation.

/Adrian

Tadite
20-05-2005, 22:31
Yup, but the list doesn't include anything with the Invocation.

/Adrian


Its almost as if they forgot to add a Necromancer/Thrall Vamp to the list. The have things like the Cutlus and talk about summoning but have nothing that can use either...

Sgt John Keel
20-05-2005, 23:02
Its almost as if they forgot to add a Necromancer/Thrall Vamp to the list. The have things like the Cutlus and talk about summoning but have nothing that can use either...

The summoning thing is just in reference to the DoW unit, I believe. They can indeed be summoned. There's nothing about it in this list.

/Adrian

TheDirtyHippy
21-05-2005, 11:22
from what i've heard there is no magic casting in the list.

however (!), the vampire generates 4 dispell dice and has magic resistance (3)!

one heros is like a wight lord and the other is a banshee/wraith hybrid

the zombie pirates also get:
things almost exactly like jezzail teams (remember zombie shooting = 6 to hit, 1 = hit yourself)

move and fire cannons

some scary monster thing

Scythe
21-05-2005, 12:49
So an undead army with no magic whatsoever? That sounds extremely strange to me...

EvC
21-05-2005, 12:57
Who the heck is raising all these zombies in the first place if there's no spellcaster? This is all sounding very cool but a little retarded at the same time.

Asher
21-05-2005, 16:40
Isn't Harkon a spell caster? As a vampire count/lord he should be capable of that or has that slann twisted his head so much? The list sounds very cool, I'm really looking forward to it!

Bruen
21-05-2005, 16:55
Harkon lost his connection with the winds of magic in a failed attempt at tomb robbing so he has no magical power at all anymore and generates no power dice.

However he has magic resistance 3 and generates 4 dispel dice.

I assume that the zombies in his army were created before this all happened.

You must include him in your army so you can't take a zombie pirate army of less than 2000 points.

It looks like a really cool list to me, so much so that I am going to start playing fantasy just to play the army. Gonna start with some of the limited-edition zombie pirate packs before they run out.

Arrr, dubloons and ex-parrots for all!

Falkman
21-05-2005, 17:14
You must include him in your army so you can't take a zombie pirate army of less than 2000 points.
I guess it says heīs a compulsory lord choice, right?
That means that the compulsory wording only comes in action when you actually can take a lord.




It looks like a really cool list to me, so much so that I am going to start playing fantasy just to play the army. Gonna start with some of the limited-edition zombie pirate packs before they run out.
You mean the box they show off on the online store?
Thatīs just sprues from the Empire militia box and Vampire Counts zombie box put together, so nothing special with them.

Lavfluris
21-05-2005, 17:29
That means that the compulsory wording only comes in action when you actually can take a lord.If that was the case, then yes, you would be right. Sadly, the Zombie Pirates have to be at least 2000pts and this is stated clearly in the article...

Arr I say. ;)

Falkman
21-05-2005, 17:30
Brilliant idea of GW... :rolleyes:

Sylass
21-05-2005, 17:38
While it's a bit odd, it's not much of a problem I think. For official tournaments you could build your army to the (more or less) standard size of 2000 points. That's the size most players choose for their armies anyway.

When playing private games with your friends, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Noone stops you from using the Lustria armies without the special characters or build e.g. 1500 point armies far smaller games.

After reading all these posts about the pirates, I'm sure that'll I'll get the WD to take a look at the list. From the rumours/info here it sounds like a fun army to play with/against.

Bruen
21-05-2005, 17:44
I guess it says heīs a compulsory lord choice, right?
That means that the compulsory wording only comes in action when you actually can take a lord.

You guess wrong. I quote - "As you must field Luthor Harkon with the army, the minimum size for the army is 2000 points".


You mean the box they show off on the online store?
Thatīs just sprues from the Empire militia box and Vampire Counts zombie box put together, so nothing special with them.

No, I mean that the army has character and humour and loads of conversion opportunities. Its exactly what I am looking for in an army. Plus it has lots of piraty goodness :) Yo ho ho and a bottle of undead rum.

Falkman
21-05-2005, 17:56
No, I mean that the army has character and humour and loads of conversion opportunities. Its exactly what I am looking for in an army. Plus it has lots of piraty goodness :) Yo ho ho and a bottle of undead rum.
Oh, you misunderstood me.
I think the army seems great too, but I meant that the pirate box on the online store is just a couple of sprues from two normal box sets, so itīs nothing special or new about that box.

Bruen
21-05-2005, 18:07
Oh, you misunderstood me.
I think the army seems great too, but I meant that the pirate box on the online store is just a couple of sprues from two normal box sets, so itīs nothing special or new about that box.

Yeh I know its just a bag of existing sprues, all of these limited-edition bags are the same sort of thing, but its a great deal:

3 empire militia sprues = Ģ12
2 zombie sprues = Ģ12

OR

1 zombie pirate bag = Ģ15 and no need to pay postage

Falkman
21-05-2005, 18:12
Oh, you were thinking about that.
Yeah, thatīs a brilliant idea.

EvC
21-05-2005, 18:20
That's why I'm looking forward to it too. I'm surprised they're not charging Ģ18. I'm sure you can make regular zombies, or maybe even sylvania levy from the package.

Scythe
22-05-2005, 12:56
Harkon lost his connection with the winds of magic in a failed attempt at tomb robbing so he has no magical power at all anymore and generates no power dice.


That still sounds quite strange; undead shouldn't excist if it wasn't for magic right? So shouldn't he just fall apart?

Anyway, it seens like an interesting army at least, and not just a Vampire Counts or Sylvanian army clone with several new units. And all those strange rules made me quite curious.

Bruen
22-05-2005, 13:19
That still sounds quite strange; undead shouldn't excist if it wasn't for magic right? So shouldn't he just fall apart?

You would think so wouldn't you, and how does he control his zombie army without magic?

All I have to go on is the WD article which does give quite a bit more detail but I'm not comfortable posting large chunks of GW IP.

Griefbringer
22-05-2005, 13:49
As for the limited edition Zombie pirate kit, you could just as well waltz to any close by game store and grab 2-3 each of the Zombie and Empire Militia kits.

With the minimum size of 2000 points, you are going to need lots of those zombies!

Falkman
22-05-2005, 14:18
As for the limited edition Zombie pirate kit, you could just as well waltz to any close by game store and grab 2-3 each of the Zombie and Empire Militia kits.

That was exactly what I thought first, but then he explained that the zombie pirate kit is cheaper than a normal plastic kit, thus making it a good deal.

Bruen
22-05-2005, 14:49
With the minimum size of 2000 points, you are going to need lots of those zombies!

Agreed. I have ordered 6 packs to be going on with. That gives me 3 full strength crews (I will probably have each unit of zombies representing the crew of a seperate ship) and at least 720 points; or possibly 2 full strength crews and 1 half strength crew with hand weapons and 1 half strength crew with handguns.

I am still thinking of how to use them, I love the idea of the black power rules but the hand weapon crews are clearly going to be the meat of the army.

Since I do not yet play fantasy I am not going to buy anything else until I have a chance to play a few test games, and of course I need to buy the Fantasy rulebook :P

Forgotmytea
22-05-2005, 14:57
Yeah, the price is pretty good for what you get. I'm thinking of getting a box for my VC to count as normal zombies just for the coolness factor.... :skull: :evilgrin:

Avian
22-05-2005, 15:12
You would think so wouldn't you, and how does he control his zombie army without magic?
There is precedent for this - Konrad von Carstein doesn't know any magic either, he simply enslaves Necromancers and gets them to do the job...

Falkman
22-05-2005, 15:16
I donīt think thereīs a lot of stray necromancers running around in Lustria waiting to be captured though ;)

Rabid Bunny 666
22-05-2005, 15:23
luther bound them to the ebony skulls, so they're stuck with him until he dies

Ozorik
22-05-2005, 15:47
What I dont understand is how these zombies manage to operate and Maintain handguns and cannon. Tempramental weapons at the best of times and Zombies arn't reknowned for good kit maintanance. Not to mention that gunpower has to be kept dry which would be a problem for such an aquatic army.



Not that Im being pedantic or anything.

Bruen
22-05-2005, 16:13
What I dont understand is how these zombies manage to operate and Maintain handguns and cannon. Tempramental weapons at the best of times and Zombies arn't reknowned for good kit maintanance. Not to mention that gunpower has to be kept dry which would be a problem for such an aquatic army.

According to WD Harkon cast a spell on the zombies that allowed them to use the firearms (after a fashion) and also allowed the weapons to work even when in very poor condition or wet.

I assume that he did this before he lost his powers.

EvC
22-05-2005, 17:59
You should at least wink when you repeat the basics of such silly rules and fluff ;)

And there's no reason to think there wouldn't be Necromancers running around Lustria... I bet there's tonnes of cannibalistic tribes (i.e. ghouls) in the jungle with a shaman in charge who could be take on such roles...

Scythe
23-05-2005, 11:39
But raising the dead without any knowledge about Nagash books (or a variant of them by other authors)? Not likely.

EvC
23-05-2005, 12:28
Nagash learnt that stuff from the Dark Elves. I'm sure a few dark elves have got lost in the jungle (note the ;)ing), and combined with what Harkon used to know, it all works out! Or something ;)

Scythe
23-05-2005, 12:31
However I doubt a bunch of canibals is going to learn some spells from a DE sorceres before eating her....;)

boogle
23-05-2005, 13:46
vampires don't Have to have a book of Nagash, as there are only a few of these tomes out there, i believe they all have some inherant power to raise the dead

Scythe
24-05-2005, 08:15
That's true, but again, I doubt they will be found in the rimboe of Lustria. And even if they where, I doubt canibals could read them....;)

Odin
24-05-2005, 14:47
Has anybody noticed that there's a magic weapon in the list (a cutlass I believe), which gives the wielder Killing Blow and costs 25 points. Thing is, Luthor Harkon cannot buy any additional equipment, neither can the Syreens, so the only characters who can buy the cutlass are the Fleet Captains - who already have magic weapons with Killing Blow. Whoops!

Avian
24-05-2005, 14:59
I guess they included it to fill the quota of useless magic items every list seems required to have. ;)

Garrett
25-05-2005, 07:39
So, wait a sec, theres a magic item (Slann Gold) that turns characters into a level 1 wizard. Now I'm a bit shady on my fantasy rules as all I play is tomb kings, but is there no lore of death spell to raise new zombies?

Scythe
25-05-2005, 08:09
Nope, there isn't. Necromantic magic is used to raise the dead. It's a corrupted form of death magic, and most death magic users abhor necromantic magic users. Death magic users regard death as a universal ruler, while necromantic magic users use magic to cheat death.

Griefbringer
25-05-2005, 09:21
I took a look at the list yesterday on the latest UK/Northern Europe WD, looks quite personal though most of the units are (statwise) just ripped from other lists and given an undead special ability. I would have appreciated a bit more work on that side - the unit concepts themselves are pretty original though.

As an interesting point, those gun zombies can swap their handguns for a brace of pistols - this isn't really enhancing their shooting ability, but should make them quite nasty in close combat with two attacks each (and S4 and armour piercing on first turn). Plus they do not suffer misfires on close combat. Of course with striking last and maximum unit size of 20, this might not be excessively powerful, but the price per model isn't too high either.

I did not give a very thorough look, but the battle standard bearer option might be a bit limited - I did not notice it giving the same goodies as it gives for a VC list (zombie pirate list is not affected by rules of VC list), making it a bit restricted use for an army full of undead. Though I think it is the only unit able to have a magic banner, and those are not exactly poor choices.

Cpt. Drill
25-05-2005, 15:17
I think the list is great and reall characterful... but the problem is you have to take that big liability special character!
And he is just a vamp lord with no magic! not very pro!

Killgore
26-05-2005, 01:00
I'v had a look at the list and I think its great, you got everything!

A swarm, a Huge Beastie, Undead Ogres, lots of guns, Cannons, a Monster big Mumma Cannon **, a psykotic Vampire leader.... What more could a undead pirate want? Arrgh.

**Which I'm surprised no ones mentioned that huge cannon yet, it has to be one of the biggest meanest warmachines in the WHFB game, alongside the steamtank and hellcannon.

Scythe
26-05-2005, 08:49
Is it just as effective as their empire/ chaos variants then?

Avian
26-05-2005, 09:38
Which I'm surprised no ones mentioned that huge cannon yet, it has to be one of the biggest meanest warmachines in the WHFB game, alongside the steamtank and hellcannon.
It's very exensive and very inaccurate. Not to mention really easy to take out.

Griefbringer
26-05-2005, 10:27
Yep, Queen Bess is not that hard to deal with - you just have to return the five Zombies in the crew back to their wet graves.

Remember that you also roll an extra artillery die when determining the range to be added to the guess, and that each of those dice can misfire - giving you a 11/36 chance of rolling a misfire on every shot.

Then there is the modelling aspect - you need a BIG gun for this. I have somewhere the old Grenadier dwarf war cannon that would probably be of suitable size. Unfortunately that has been out of production since Grenadier went down in the 90's. Here is a poor quality picture of the thing:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~tpope/sol/grenadier/images/9007.jpg

Of course, you could scratchbuild something suitably impressive, or try looking out for some 40 or 54 mm scale cannons to see if they would be suitable.

Another cannon issue is that the normal cannons in the Zombie list are equivalent to DoW galloper guns, so purists might find that converting Empire great cannon (easiest choice) would give too big a gun.

Sylass
26-05-2005, 10:54
While I really like the idea of a Queen Bess cannon, I agree with Avian and Griefbringer that it's heavily overprized.

250 points AND needs a rare&special slot -> very expensive
very inaccurate
really easy to take out
huge chance to missfire

Looks like it's the Black Coach of the Zombie Pirate list. ;)


200 points and a single rare slot would be more justified if you ask me...

Forrix
27-05-2005, 15:14
Sorry but that army list is absolute gash. badly written and seems like it was thought up very quickly after seeing a certain film. Its absolute rubbish.

Shame becase it's a good idea, though needs more than the 5 minutes they spent on it.

Crube
29-05-2005, 16:50
I like em.

I agree that the list couldve had a bit longer spent on it, but I for one am glad to see this kind of artivcle appearing in WD again. They're fun, and for a while, I think the hobby and GW has been taken themselves a bit too seriously!!!

Stouty
29-05-2005, 18:21
I agree, its the post like the above but one that has led GW into thinking that all gamers are dead serious tourny gamers who cry when the rules are not adhered to. I think everyone just needs to sit down and remember what we're dealing with: TOY SOLDIERS!!!
I admit the list has some massive flaws but it has far too much style for that to stop it!

Rabid Bunny 666
29-05-2005, 22:27
mainly the magic banners ;)

it is cool, but can be seriously nasty

Stouty
29-05-2005, 23:29
Which magic banner (if only they had let a unit of zombies take a banner they would've been useful)

Rabid Bunny 666
29-05-2005, 23:46
not that, just thevfact that nothing can bear it :D

Griefbringer
30-05-2005, 11:44
Remember that you can upgrade one of the Fleet captains to a battle standard bearer at +25 points (not sure if the rules clearly state that he can take a magic standard, but he should).

Math Mathonwy
30-05-2005, 13:15
Another cannon issue is that the normal cannons in the Zombie list are equivalent to DoW galloper guns, so purists might find that converting Empire great cannon (easiest choice) would give too big a gun.
Make it horribly damaged and explain the loss of effectivity with that.

Rabid Bunny 666
30-05-2005, 13:21
nice, may do that, i'll just trim down the barrel

and it doesn't say that he can be a battle standard bearer :wtf:

Frankly
31-05-2005, 04:55
250 points AND needs a rare&special slot -> very expensive
very inaccurate
really easy to take out
huge chance to missfire



I sitting here now converting one up.

I brought up my friends leadbelchers yesterday, I'm going to comvert them into zombies with cannons.

There's something silly about zombies having cannons that makes me think I'm really going to enjoy this list.

Griefbringer
31-05-2005, 07:25
and it doesn't say that he can be a battle standard bearer :wtf:

Yes it says - but it is not under his army list entry, but on one of the sidebars, so it can be hard to find.

As for Zombie cannon being just badly damaged great cannon, might not really explain the move-and-fire ability - but being carried around by an undead ogre would be a good explanation for that. :D

crackbabytoo
31-05-2005, 17:42
I think that the list is weak in regards to the Lord & Hero choices.

I like the magic items, but I think that the cost and the utility of some items are questionable.

The core selections are great, but really sort of weak – I seriously doubt that your troops will ever have the opportunity to attack back. Also I question the lack of champion for these core choices.

I like the Special choices, but I think that the deck gunners are a waste of points.

Rare choices – love them & want more of them.

EffCee
31-05-2005, 18:49
Yeah I like the magic items, especially the Ex-Parrot :D I don't really understand why Luthor hasn't created any thralls though, I mean he is nuts enough to do such a thing when he is not quite as rational as he would like to be. This list needs more character options! And I need to find a giant plastic crab to convert. Hmmm!

The Pale Lady
31-05-2005, 19:51
Why on earth do they have a magic item that enables them to effectivly snipe characters (its a spyglass/telescope thing-havent got the wd to hand) when none of the characters can have such a ranged weapon? Am I missing out on something here, or is this another fault?

Sariel
31-05-2005, 20:03
On the basis of TWO games with the Zombie Pirates (against Dwarves, which has got to be one of the easiest match-ups for the Pirates to deal with, what with no magic and next to no flankers):

Shooty Zombie Pirates - or "BOOM! Hur hur hur"

Queen Bess - Used her in the first game. Sure, she's horribly inaccurate, and she misfires really easily. On the other hand, her first shot of the game (and incidentally, also her LAST shot, since she rolled a misfire followed by a "1" the next turn) accounted for about 300 points of Dwarves - 2/3 of a unit of Dwarf Warriors, half a unit of Hammerers and a runed-up Stone Thrower.

Granted, it might have been a one-off thing, but why not? Makes for a great centre-piece model, discourages the enemy from bunching up, and if it hits, wow but it can do a lot of damage, and even if it only happens one game in five, the psychological impact would be worth it. Besides, what else are you going to spend points on? :D

Considering its supposed to be a cut-down Hell Hammer cannon (anyone remember ManOWar?), am currently making lots of rope (braided florist wire) to string up a 10" brass tube in a Hellcannon frame.. (I absolutely refuse to use the ******** meat gun that is the Hellcannon as a base for Queen Bess...)


Carronades - move-and-fire cannon that cause fear? What's not to like? S7 is fine for taking out just about anything short of Great Unclean Ones and enemy war machines. They pretty much accounted for what was left of the Dwarves after Queen Bess had her say..... 36" (and a maximum effective range of 56")is plenty seeing as how we're usually playing on 4'x6' tables.

As an alternative, 2nd turn, it was a matter of pushing 3 carronades up between massed Deckhand Mobs - shoot, shoot, grapeshot, charge.

Arguably a little under-costed at a piddly 70 points for what it can do, but hey, the list needs some punch, especially seeing as how EVERYTHING except the characters strike last....

Basically using Great Cannon barrels on naval gun carriages (ie low boxes with four wheels and limited elevation), two bare-chested loaders and a gun officer with a frock coat (ie Empire militia coat torso with green-stuff braid).


Deck Guns - Again, what's not to like, except they're competing for slots with carronades and Deck Droppers?

(not impressed by the Hulks - might paint up a couple of Ogres in a bright green, but d6 attacks and going last even on the charge? Eh.... might try them the next game.. but am still sceptical. Someone convince me otherwise?)

Sure, they only hit on 6s and hit themselves on a 1. They also cause fear, and cost a mere 10 points each. In contrast, Skaven Jezails (the most obvious parallel) usually hit on 5s and 6s, and wound themselves on double 1s, but they cost twice as much! (ie I can get twice as many Deck Guns for the same price!). Used them in the second game instead of Queen Bess. Got meself a nice hefty unit of 10 and used the rest of the points on Bloated Corpses.

Lost about 7 to misfires along the way, but in 6 turns, they accounted for 1 Dwarf Cannon (they destroyed the cannon!) and about 4 Slayers - not too shabby for 100 points.

Am still trying to figure out a way to convert them that does NOT involve buying galloper guns by the bucketload.......


Bloated Corpses - WRONG! Arguably one of the best speed-bumps in the game! T4 notwithstanding, they worked great against Dwarven infantry, though I fully expect them to work just as well against T3 heavy cavalry/fast cavalry charges.

Bloated Corpse congo lines? *shudders*

Pretty darn easy to convert too, I would imagine. Will get down to it once I'm done with the Mobs and Carronades....

Sariel
31-05-2005, 20:05
Why on earth do they have a magic item that enables them to effectivly snipe characters (its a spyglass/telescope thing-havent got the wd to hand) when none of the characters can have such a ranged weapon? Am I missing out on something here, or is this another fault?

The Fleet Captain can take a brace of pistols! That's a ranged weapon, albeit one on a BS3 character with a range of 8"...........

The Pale Lady
31-05-2005, 20:09
Ah thanks, i was under the impression that pistols were close combat weapons but then never used them before. Thanks for clearing that up, it seems a terribly useful magic item... ;)

Sariel
31-05-2005, 20:13
Ah thanks, i was under the impression that pistols were close combat weapons but then never used them before. Thanks for clearing that up, it seems a terribly useful magic item... ;)

Arrr. Yer welcome. :D

It is, isn't it? Certainly more useful than Sloppy Cruickshank's Long-Lost Cutlass!

samw
31-05-2005, 20:21
Hey, what's the rules for a brace of pistols again? just thinking because would the "wight blades" special rules apply to the pistol shots, either in or out of combat? They do for grave guard regardless of weapon choice.

Stouty
31-05-2005, 23:16
In summary: KILLIN' BLOW PISTOLS DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!!!

Frankly
01-06-2005, 03:45
So an undead army with no magic whatsoever? That sounds extremely strange to me...


I play undead with no magic all the time, its not a problem.

What worries me is magic defence in lower point games.

Griefbringer
01-06-2005, 07:47
As for magic, you can upgrade one of the Fleet Captains to level 1 wizard with a certain magic item.

Azroth
01-06-2005, 08:39
And I need to find a giant plastic crab to convert. Hmmm!

*cough* New plastic Carnifex! *cough*

I mean, come on, it even comes with a head with part of the skull visible and it can have crab claws. And it looks smashing to boot. It's like it's what God intended... :p

therisnosaurus
01-06-2005, 08:49
for all you lan'lubbers, here be a sample force to get your guts jumpin'

Heroes

Luthor Harkon 260pts
Necrach on foot with skull and dagger, add pirate cap, eyepatch and parrot-gnoblar

Mistress Cindy: Gentleman Jenkin’s Compass 115pts
New wood elf mage

Pretty Mindy: 90pts
New wood elf mage/Mariana Chevaux (mordheim vampire)

Core:

Ol Roger’s Barnacled Buccaneers: 35 deckhands: musician, standard 195pts
Free company/zombie sprue/Gnoblars

Mate Carlos’ Crusty Crew: 35 deckhands: musician, standard 195pts
Free company/ zombie sprue/Gnoblars

Powder Pete’s Peglegs: 10 zombie gunners with a brace of pistols 80pts
Free company/zombie sprue, using pistols from free company.

Squiggits x-ploaders: 5 bloated corpses 150pts
Gnoblars with big powder kegs

Special:

Big Ug’s Rotting Ravagers: 6 animated hulks 240pts
Ogre bulls, zombiefied. Maybe a pirate maneater champion…

Bogrotz Bloated Blasters
Carronade 70pts
Carronade 70pts
Carronade 70pts
Leadbelchers, suitably zombified- 3 crew, three wounds. Perfect

Rare:

Lil’ Daisy: Rotting leviathan: 200pts
Green stuff and rat tails- kraken style

Moby, The Rotting Dick (arrr arrr arr): Rotting leviathan: 200pts
Zombie whale with legs

Total: 1995pt


What I need to buy
1 necrach $15
2 other characters $32
1 OK battalion $150
1 box of zombies $50
2 boxes of free company $100
+bitz: $40
Total: about $400- 2000 points for the same cost as an army deal :)

Rabid Bunny 666
01-06-2005, 12:26
hehe, i'm using the 'fex as well, and syreens can't have weapons :(

Killgore
01-06-2005, 12:38
Number one rule about this list is having fun, if I wasn't so exscited about the new Wood Elfs I'd want a pirate army myself.

EffCee
01-06-2005, 13:51
*cough* New plastic Carnifex! *cough*

I mean, come on, it even comes with a head with part of the skull visible and it can have crab claws. And it looks smashing to boot. It's like it's what God intended... :p


Aha! Even though I don't collect Tyranids, an excuse to buy the awesone Carnifex. Tops!

therisnosaurus
01-06-2005, 14:15
where does it state they can't take magic items- it doesn't say it anywhere I can find.

Griefbringer
01-06-2005, 15:36
where does it state they can't take magic items- it doesn't say it anywhere I can find.

They can only take magic items if it is specifically stated in their army list entry that they can do.

Griefbringer
01-06-2005, 15:42
Deck Guns - Again, what's not to like, except they're competing for slots with carronades and Deck Droppers?

Am still trying to figure out a way to convert them that does NOT involve buying galloper guns by the bucketload.......


Would you still be able to mail order good old Marauder Swivel Guns:

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm14dwfswivel.htm

I've got two of those, they are pretty nice.

Nukem
01-06-2005, 15:56
I have only seen the Rotting Leviathan mentioned once.. in the army list. What do you guys think of them?

For 200pts your basically getting a dragon..BASICALLY. with a 3+Save and -1 to Hit I think its awsome.

What they should do is allow the user to customize the Rotting Leviathan instead of having copy and paste units if you should happen to take 2. Like add wings or extra wound or something.


Having established that, I'm going to do a Pirate army. As I already have VC this should be a easy venture. *I still have 3 boxes of unopened zombies ;)*

Bruen
01-06-2005, 16:14
I have only seen the Rotting Leviathan mentioned once.. in the army list. What do you guys think of them?

They look like a decent unit, but they just don't fit into the theme for my army so I will not be using them.

Sariel
01-06-2005, 17:55
@ samw and Stouty - I'm afraid Killing Blow will NOT apply to pistols.

"Wight Blades: Any HAND WEAPON carried by Fleet Captains count as Magical and use the rules for Killing Blow..."

Oh well... so much for having a pair of bad Hong Kong action-flick style gunslingers as my Fleet Captains.




I have only seen the Rotting Leviathan mentioned once.. in the army list. What do you guys think of them?

For 200pts your basically getting a dragon..BASICALLY. with a 3+Save and -1 to Hit I think its awsome.


Don't know, really - I'd say you get what you pay for.. have'nt played with them so I would'nt know for sure, though I'm really sceptical about how effective they're going to be in combat.

Plus points:
1) US5 - just right for negating rank bonus.
2) Almost dragon stats, except it can't fly, only moves 6"/12" and does'nt cause terror.
3) Pretty durable, what with high toughness, wounds, -1 to hit and all - still would'nt use it alone, though. As a flanker for something tied up with a Zombie mob? Yeah. Alone? No.

Minus points:
1) For all its stats, its still braindead - ie it will still strike last, though the Slimy Skin, high toughness and 3+ save should help a lot. In close combat, at any rate. All the toughness and saves are'nt going to do jack for wounds from crumbling.
2) WS3 really isn't anything to write home about - you'll hit about half the time. And the -1 to hit just means most heavy cavalry will be hitting it on 4s instead of 3s - again, helpful but not great.

So, yeah.... not too shabby, but not excellent either. I'll probably fix up two at some point, but don't really see myself using more than 1 on a regular basis. Its all about the cannon!

That being said, while (like most other folks here) I'm really psyched about the new plastic Carnifex, I'm actually planning to wait for all those old METAL Carnifexes (especially Old One Eye) to start going at half-price or better....

Sariel
01-06-2005, 18:01
So an undead army with no magic whatsoever? That sounds extremely strange to me...
.

No active magic, at any rate - you're getting a whopping 6 dispel dice (7 if you give a Captain Slaan Gold) a round, which is pretty respectable, since the only way you can get that many dice in a regular VC army is by fielding a 4 Necromancers (one of whom has to be a Master necro).

You've definitely got more dice than the Army of Sylvania, and a lot more firepower imho. They have Black Coaches, you have cannon. I'll take the cannon, thank you very much.

Granted, the lack of dispel scrolls might take some getting used to, but with enough Zombies, its not as if you need to worry about magic missiles!

librerian_samae
01-06-2005, 18:12
Don't forget the magic resistance you can get if you take the ex- parrot,
it can put your total dispel dice (including MR) up to 10!

or 11 if you give a second fleet captain slann gold

Scythe
01-06-2005, 18:55
@ samw and Stouty - I'm afraid Killing Blow will NOT apply to pistols.

"Wight Blades: Any HAND WEAPON carried by Fleet Captains count as Magical and use the rules for Killing Blow..."



That's strange... it applies to any weapon a VC wight lord can take....

Anyway, just having bought the wd and scanned over the army list, I must say it looks more attractive as I expected. It's quite a characterfull list, and has a lot of conversion potential. I'm a little less sceptic as before for power on the battlefield, as they seen to have some valid choices available.

Who knows, I always loved my undead. And I could use another fantasy army. Only problem is the truckload of Tyranids I bought/intend to buy yet to bring my Tyranid army to a rough 6000 pts still need to be painted/assembled.

taer
01-06-2005, 19:10
Leviathan's rule. They are dragon like in their stats, Unit strength 5, and, most importantly, they are not large targets. Can you say sneaky crabs?

Sariel
01-06-2005, 20:06
Leviathan's rule. They are dragon like in their stats, Unit strength 5,

Dragon-like? Hardly... they've got the 3+ scaly skin, same strength and same number of attacks. Granted, they are'nt large targets, and they don't take up character slots.

On the other hand, compared to Dragons

1) They don't fly.
2) They don't cause terror.
3) A Leviathan's WS is half that of a Dragon, which means they're hitting most troops on 4+.
4) They strike last (which means that a character with a GW is still going to get a shot at carving it up, since even with Slimy Skin, ANY fighting character is still going to hit it on a 4+).
5) They can crumble.
6) They can't march unless they're within 12" of Harkon - not a problem if you're planning to use them to countercharge (ie close to your big zombie blocks), but it does limit their tactical flexibility - you can't exactly use them as flankers, for instance.

Like I said earlier, not bad, but hardly something to get really excited about.
Might as well say they're souped-up Griffons, though, as far as stats go, the closest analogue is actually the Carnosaur.

Scythe
01-06-2005, 20:17
2) They don't cause terror.


:confused: My (UK) WD clearly states terror under the special rules section of the Rotting Leviathan (along with Scaly Skin and Slimy Skin).

Anyway, compared to a Dark Elf War Hydra, they aren't bad. Better save, slimy skin, higher S, lose -1W, crumble and no beastmasters for about equal pts (well, slightly less acctually).

Also, to add to the discussion about the Queen Bess, it's acctually more accurate as most people think. Rolling 2 artillery dices is more accurate as rolling a single one (sure, more chance of a misfire, but otherwise). 2 Artillery dices give a range (providing you don't misfire) of 4-20 inches, but those extremes do not happen that often (the same as rolling snake eyes or double sixes), while the average (12 inches) is quite likely. So you're pretty sure the shot lands 10-14 inch from the distance guessed, while with a normal cannon you don't have that much of a clue.

boogle
01-06-2005, 20:38
doesn't a brace of pistols count as 2 hand weapons in Close combat thought?

Sariel
01-06-2005, 21:12
doesn't a brace of pistols count as 2 hand weapons in Close combat thought?

Well, yes. "In this respect (it) acts like a hand weapon..." - BRB p. 91
So, in close combat, you get an extra attack (S4 armour piercing on the first round only) that will benefit from killing blow (I'd go with it, at any rate - don't take my word for it. *grins*).

On the other hand, it counts as a missile weapon when shooting, so (imho) the pistol shot does'nt benefit from killing blow.

Guess that magical aura only applies to stuff the Fleet Captain is actually touching - once the ball leaves the pistol, it becomes a normal hunk of lead. Possibly...
Never was a problem with regular Wight Lords, since they could'nt take ANY missile weapon.

Sariel
01-06-2005, 21:22
:confused: My (UK) WD clearly states terror under the special rules section of the Rotting Leviathan (along with Scaly Skin and Slimy Skin).


WHOOPS!

Yes they do. I guess I missed that.... :p My bad..... *sheepish*



Anyway, compared to a Dark Elf War Hydra, they aren't bad. Better save, slimy skin, higher S, lose -1W, crumble and no beastmasters for about equal pts (well, slightly less acctually).


Like I said all along, they are'nt BAD. Not bad, not a waste of points, they fulfill a very specific role, but not exactly something I'd rant about either...

Scythe
02-06-2005, 14:20
That's true, they are not particular game winners on their own. Those cannons, on the other hand...

taer
02-06-2005, 20:04
Hell, Leviathans are damn nasty with the ability to hide behind a bloated corpse screen and flank units on its lonesome. Plus being one of the very few things in this army that can dish it out in CC. (I mean, come on, if you get engaged in the front of an enemy unit with a character with this nasty, you aren't doing your job!). In fact, this nasty creature can effectively deal with entire units by itself, provided you manuever it right. Even really scary units like Iron Breakers (so long as the git running them doesn't run that damn banner that makes them stubborn. Oh how I hate that thing.)

Stouty
02-06-2005, 23:36
It's given me an excuse to use one of those sweet carnifexs, so it could cost half my points and have the CC effectiveness of a drunken zombie but I'd still love it!
How do you people use those bloated corpses and what base do you mount them on?

taer
02-06-2005, 23:39
I mount them on a 25mm so I can tell the difference between them and other zombies. As for use, I use them in a staggered line to act as unavoidable speed bumps for a very, very annoying long time for a particular unit.

Stouty
02-06-2005, 23:47
YAY! I'm not alone in my thin green line!

Griefbringer
03-06-2005, 10:55
As for use, I use them in a staggered line to act as unavoidable speed bumps for a very, very annoying long time for a particular unit.

I guess "walking minefield" would be the most appropriate term around.

They will probably start attracting decent amounts of missile fire.

Scythe
03-06-2005, 11:03
Yup, to bad units can split fire in fantasy...

Falkman
03-06-2005, 11:13
Yup, to bad units can split fire in fantasy...
Only if the entire group canīt see the same target.
If they can all see the bloated corpse, then they must fire at it.

Griefbringer
03-06-2005, 12:12
Well, taking small missile unit (like Empire detachments) allows every unit to target a different corpse. And those low-power magic missiles could also be handy.

Being one model units makes the bloated corpses perhaps a bit too flexible - perhaps they would be better balanced as a small unit of skirmishers? That said, they come at a cost.

Scythe
03-06-2005, 12:24
Indeed. 30 pts can not be called that cheap for what they do. They are reasonable enough as speed bumbs, but they aren't game winner who are going to earn their pts back trice over or something.

vladdim
03-06-2005, 22:31
Only if the entire group canīt see the same target.
If they can all see the bloated corpse, then they must fire at it.

True in general except when shooting at a single model - then a unit can split its fire.

Nukem
03-06-2005, 22:54
I have been looking through the list and I'm having a hard time picking the special units.. I like them all..

Got any idea's? I really want to try out one of these lists tomorrow.

taer
03-06-2005, 23:07
Anything but deck gunners.

Killgore
04-06-2005, 00:15
try advancing a bloated corpse behnd a Zombie unit... when the zombies lock an enemy regiment in hth move the fat fellas out from behind the unit to take a chunk out of the engaged enm, cause anouth causultys to ensure a break test when they go pop!

use them like a buddy unit for your Zombies!

Nukem
04-06-2005, 00:21
Hmmm sounds like a good tatic. And why no Deck Gunners? Yeah I know 6's to hit 1 hit their unit as it misfires.. but its a 36inch range str 6 gun.. so thats -4 to a save... erm, but I can see why not to take them.

Falkman
04-06-2005, 08:51
True in general except when shooting at a single model - then a unit can split its fire.
You really sure about that?
I donīt have the rulebook at hand, but seeing as they made up a special rule for goblin fanatics that specifially state that you can split fire to shoot more than one fanatic, if that rule exists in the rulebook, why would they write it in the special case of fanatics in the O&G book?

Scythe
04-06-2005, 11:11
try advancing a bloated corpse behnd a Zombie unit... when the zombies lock an enemy regiment in hth move the fat fellas out from behind the unit to take a chunk out of the engaged enm, cause anouth causultys to ensure a break test when they go pop!

use them like a buddy unit for your Zombies!

Another nice thing is that they count as a separate unit for deployment. Nice to draw out some units of the enemy while not deploying any substantual yourself.

On the specials, they all seem pretty good, but the cannons are a real bargain.

Quercia
04-06-2005, 11:37
I think they will be a cool conversion, though I haven't seen the models yet (only sneak peek on GW).

Cheers,
-Q

RandomZombie
06-06-2005, 00:27
im converting the leviathan by making the whole base water and making giant tentaceles coming out of it. and in the middle, i giant eye stalk. MUAHAHAH!

Falkman
06-06-2005, 14:25
Iīm currently in the making of two Deckhand mobs.
One will be a little bit special, as I model it coming up from the water, with the front rank almost entirely visible, and the rear rank only have their heads above water.
(I know, Iīve watched too much Pirates of the Caribbean :p)

Bruen
06-06-2005, 14:38
Iīm currently in the making of two Deckhand mobs.
One will be a little bit special, as I model it coming up from the water, with the front rank almost entirely visible, and the rear rank only have their heads above water.

That sounds cool, if you get the chance post some pics :)

Falkman
06-06-2005, 14:44
Sure thing, Iīm hoping to buy a new pirate box the coming week, so if Iīm lucky I might have pics of the unpainted models up next weekend, and then Iīll begin the slow and painful process of painting them :p