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wilsongrahams
25-10-2009, 19:42
Hi guys, have checked the OO & G Tactica and there is nothing there about all Night Goblin armies and whether they even stand a chance at all.

I have recently decided to get an all Night Goblin army, to 2000 points, with Skarsnik as leader, one bigboss, two shamans, between five and ten squig hoppers, up to three stone trolls, and the rest as Night Goblins mobs.

This works out as between 800 and 1200 points for the mobs.

This could be say ten mobs of twenty models, or more likely four mobs of forty and two of twenty archers each.

Would more units, allowing for flank charges etc, mean I have more chance of winning, or would the larger units have better staying power?

If a large unit flees and is caught it is just as dead a as a smalelr one, but with fewer large units panic is less of an issue. Being defeated in combat is highly likely and with the low leadership I imagine every unit will flee when it does.

Before I finish building up my forces, does anyone have any advice for mob sizes? Also should I give Skarsniks mob spears or stick to hand weapons as he will be doing most of the killing anyway and by keeping the cost down I get more models in the army.

PS: I'm fully aware I will lose MOST battles, but I want this army for the theme regardless, as it may still be a lot of fun, and more rewarding when (if) I do win, it's just I may as well improve my chances if I can.

zeekill
25-10-2009, 19:45
Its pretty much take 2 fanatics in everything and hope they do enough so you have a chance at winning combat.

wilsongrahams
25-10-2009, 19:48
Oh yeah, sorry, I meant to mention that I have Fanatics, either 2 or 3 in the units depending upon the size of the unit - 1 for every ten gobbos seemed a reasonable use of the points they eat up.

101st Vostroyan
25-10-2009, 19:56
Its possible, but you need to depend on fanatics, and they are only reliable the turn they come out, after that, they are a liability to your own forces.

With an all night goblin army, you are going to have a lot of bodies on the board, but bodies that easily flee.

Basically, you need to depend on fanatics, who wreak havoc on the turn they burst from cover, but the problem is getting there without being diminished in size too much.

Also, I think more units might be better in a lot of situations because you have more opportunities to flank and support your units. In addition, 1 unit of 40 tiedup in combat wont do as much damage as 2 units of 20 in combat with one on the enemies' flank.

Good Luck!!!

wilsongrahams
25-10-2009, 20:10
Thanks, I'm thinking maybe I should drop one of the units and use the points to get the full Fanatics per unit, maybe even having units at just twenty models to make the use of the Fanatics. Would you also recommend Nets at all to increase surviveability? I don't think they're that expensive for the benefit they will give to my unarmoured Gobbos - unarmoured to keep the points down. a 1 in 6 chance of a save, is one model in six, but the armour for six could buy me two more models so it's a better use of the points in my opinion.

Harwammer
25-10-2009, 21:49
You'll want to have some sacrificial units for bait+ flee, redirecting or simply stalling enemy advances.

As they are expected to die just keep cheap them at 20/21 strong, maybe with musician and no fanatics.

You'll need to be wary of panic waves doing this.

Dranthar
26-10-2009, 01:33
You'll want to have some sacrificial units for bait+ flee, redirecting or simply stalling enemy advances.

QFT. If you want to stick with the pure NG theme you could either convert spider riders to have NGs riding them, and/or throw in a few units of 2x snotling bases. Snotlings ubiquitous, so they're in-theme regardless of what you take (except maybe all-cavalry). :D

I'd also strongly recomend taking a few blocks of squig herd teams. They're a very cheap hammer unit, and well worth the points you spend for them.

I've been using an all-goblin army for a while now. Not quite the same as NG-only but the basics are still there (hordes of cheap crappy troops supported by crazy-ass toys ;) ). I don't go all-out on fanatics (only 4 in 2250pts) since I feel they can be a bit hit-and-miss, especially if your opponent is able to pull them out early with something expendable. Instead, I have a bit of everything, (fast cavalry, giant, artillery, magic and combat ability) with heaps of built-in redundancy (why rely on 2 units of fast cav when you could take 4?).

Anyway, IF you take masses of fanatics you need to make sure you have a reason for your opponent to come toward you. Otherwise he'll just sit back, maybe draw out your fanatics with a sacrificial unit and plug away at your army with magic/artillery. As above, I've got artillery/some magic to help with that, although like I said, I only take a few fanatics.

zeekill
26-10-2009, 13:28
Run half of your force up the board as fast as your little goblin legs will take you, once ALL the fanatics have been released from that half turn around and run back to your table edge, where the other half will be waiting with bows and more fanatics. When he gets to you and charges the front rank, the back rank releases their fanatics (through the front unit), but chances are (really good chances actually) they will go just far enough so that your opponent's unit will stand on them when they complete their charge, taking 2D6 S5 Armor Piercing hits per fanatic. Though your goblins will probably panic from the fanatics going through their unit, the enemy will be reduced to nothing, at most 5 men left. Then hit them in the flanks where they only get one attack back, and you have 6 static combat res plus whatever you kill, and if a unit causes even one casualty that unit doesnt get hit back.

Time of Madness
26-10-2009, 13:47
I run a very successful all night goblin list. But I include the following items to help make it competitive.

- Skarsnik
- 2 Doomdivers
- 2 spear chukkas

Without the above mentioned items the list would not be nearly as effective as it is.

Skarsnik is essential. Not only does he give you LD8, but he also has a powerful bound item when combined with 3 other level 2 shaman.

You can see my list here.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218373&highlight=night

Time of Madness

Dai-Mongar
26-10-2009, 13:54
You might consider a BSB with Rowdy Grot's Big Red Raggedy Banner. Having a BSB is handy, and but the panic reroll with RGBRRB is the main attraction.
Also, no reason you couldn't take a giant. :D

EvC
26-10-2009, 13:54
Handy thread as I too am starting an NG army. I'm going to have Skarsnik leading it as well, 2 level 2s, but a Black Orc Big Boss in another unit. It's handy to have him because when I call a Waaagh that unit gets +2 so has a 50-50 chance of getting extra movement- very handy for springing 2 lots of fanatics onto the enemy (after my 2 other archer blocks have released their fanatics and hopefully killed all the small sacrificial enemy units). And yeah it's not a Goblin BSB, but Skarsnik is smart enough to hire a bully (or five) to keep his army in check after all! Plus my foot shaman goes in his unit (my other shaman is on a chariot, so I'll always be able to cast with them both every turn).

Time of Madness
26-10-2009, 14:16
You might consider a BSB with Rowdy Grot's Big Red Raggedy Banner. Having a BSB is handy, and but the panic reroll with RGBRRB is the main attraction.
Also, no reason you couldn't take a giant. :D

Seems like a good idea, but I've always found the extra level 2 shaman with a bound item works much better.

Your units should be big enough not to suffer much from panic.

Time of Madness

wilsongrahams
26-10-2009, 20:36
Thanks guys, yuou've really helped me out so far and I've started refining my list some more now.

Quick Question on Skarsnik - I will be ordering him tonight - is he best in a spearmen or hand weapons mob? Either way I'm ignoring armour on all troops to buy more men as I think it's a better value.

I suppsoe I could convert some Doom Divers etc to use Night Goblin crew and it would kinda fit in then. I may also convert the spider riders as mentioned - maybe using archers for a nuisance unit rather than a combat one.

I have yet to convert a BSB but I may use a spare Big Boss from BFSP and maybe use the moon off the Gork icon to give him a full moon suit, like the mascots in basketball etc.

So far the list is looking to be:

Skarsnik,
30 NG with hand weapons, 2 fanatics, (Skarsnik will probably join these)
30 NG with spears, 2 fanatics,
30 NG with spears, 2 fanatics,
30 NG with spears, nets,
30 NG with spears, nets,
20 NG with short bows,
20 NG with short bows,
10 spider riders (may be with bows)
10 spider riders (may be with bows)
1 Bigboss, gear depends on final list - maybe even BSB.
2 Shamans, unknown gear, depends on list again

This is 1500 ish so will leave 500 points, and I prefer Squig Hoppers to the herds for the models so may get two small units of 5 each, and then have a coupls hundred left for maybe some stone trolls or artillery. I don't want a giant as I don't think the NG have any caves for him to hide in...

Does this seems liek a reasonable start? I'm not too fussed about minor magic items etc for now, it's just a case of getting the army built and into units ready for painting. I don't want to buy surplus units either so have wanted to have a rough idea of what to use before I finish buying and building up the unit trays.

EvC
26-10-2009, 20:44
The Doom Diver looks Night Goblinish to begin with so no problems there! Definitely use some Squig Hoppers, if you can get them and Herds in the same list- all the better.

Skarsnik should definitely go in a hand weapon unit- he's on such a big base (3x2) that you'd get far fewer spear attacks as a result so as to not make them worth having in the first place.

wilsongrahams
26-10-2009, 20:52
The Doom Diver looks Night Goblinish to begin with so no problems there! Definitely use some Squig Hoppers, if you can get them and Herds in the same list- all the better.

Skarsnik should definitely go in a hand weapon unit- he's on such a big base (3x2) that you'd get far fewer spear attacks as a result so as to not make them worth having in the first place.

Thanks, I thought as much myself about Skarsnik so had pencilled him in there already.

For the Doom diver, to hide the massive goblin face on the diver gobbo himself, I can sculpt a hood or stick a moon mask on from one of the objective markers from the game box. I think masks and full moon maskot suits will look pretty interesting for some mushroom-fuelled gobbos who are basically off their heads and who are all panicky and paranoid and in all honesty should be nowhere near a battlefield!

Cain-asmodeus
27-10-2009, 03:27
i say with with some great humility, the interesting idea of a pure NG army is very dangerous indeed.

I personally saw most of my Khornate Knights and warriors destroyed from a wall of 18 fanatics in my second turn, thinking oddly my spawn would be enough to lure them....sadly i watched 4 units of goblins overun most of my army in turn 3

the first army to massacre my khorne army....

(not to mention my chaos lord was nulled in close combat with his NG lord using my own saves for his benefits...)

needless i was truly impressed, i hope to meet the same army again :evilgrin:

John Vaughan
27-10-2009, 03:52
Unt size varies. If you're fighting elves, BIG UNITS! Fanatics are scary to everyone too.

Might I suggest frontage increase? If you have ranks of seven, you can get more of those precious attacks off. And nets. Those are nice!

EvC
27-10-2009, 11:06
I made up my movement trays yesterday, Skarsnik's unit goes 7-wide (and 5 deep), just so I can have Skarnsik, all command models and a chap with a net in the front rank :)

undeadgoblin
27-10-2009, 11:49
I have seen many Night Goblin armies played with varying degrees of success. If you are doing this, there is a fun trick that will take care of enemy cavalry.

Take your 20 man unit of NG archers, and give them 2 or 3 fanatics. Deploy them 10 wide, then march them right up to enemy cavalry. When they charge, whizz the fanatics in front of your unit, so the cavalry take 2D6 hits from each fanatic, plus the 10 shots from stand and shoot. This will take the impetus out of many a cavalry charge.

Also, head over to Da-Warpath which is a Orcs and Goblins forum, with tips and tactics to help you along your way.

Also, I advise you not to take units of 10 spider riders. You need units of 5-7 with a musician. Or, alternitavely, take wolf riders, who are faster and have a higher movement, and can do the same job. and for cheaper.

I also advise you to add nets, which is funny when you see S2 elves. For some final advice, don't launch fanatics near an engine of the gods. They will be killed by burning alignment. And don't be afraid to send fanatics through other units if it will launch the fanatics into enemy lines.

wilsongrahams
27-10-2009, 17:11
Thanks guys, I was already thinking of moving my archers up the line with other units either side of them, mainly in the hope of then flanking an enemy that charges a nearbu unit - I'm after one long battle line at the moment to avoid fleeing units running through those behind. Spreading my fanatics throughout the line should give every part of the line some extra power. I'm happy enough sacrificing goblins (I'm normally a High Elf player). As for the Spider Riders, severla people have mentioned the same to me. I'm just wondering now, what to do as I have twenty models... Maybe make them into three units? Or just leave them on the shelf and use the points elsewhere? I don't want wolf riders as I don't have models yet and don't want to either - the ONLY reason I even intended to use spiders was because I have the models already. I suppose these could be my sacrificial units, kept small and used to take away enemy rank bonus with a flank charge. I've now got the whole army assembles, and I'm even contemplating trying a test battle before they are painted to see if anything needs altering before colour schemes are applied.

I currently have units set up in 6x5 but haven't made any trays yet so may go to 7 wide, it's just I prefer full ranks rather than odd numbers so may rearrange it all. May try some different formations and some simulated combats with a spare hour or two. The extra attck per rank will reduce my overall rank bonus.

w3rm
27-10-2009, 21:09
I want to play an all night goblin army but I seem to have misplaced one of my egg cartons holding half of my gobblins... of well